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 The Discordians explicitly have no leadership position. On that note, I am curious what my great leader will decide to do with our little party. Perhaps we could find a home within the Monternos or the Inclusionists. Or maybe we could be counted among the Discordians.
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Jun 1, 2014 18:38
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:58 |
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 RINO ##joins the Discordians.
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Jun 1, 2014 18:44
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 Yeah, unless someone is offering to make the Guiding light a sub-party (and why would they, it's just me) I'm going to have to go with the Discordians The Guiding Light ##joins the Discordians TheFlyingLlama fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 1, 2014 |
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Jun 1, 2014 18:56
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Yay, the Inclusionists made it as a major party! Sure, it's the smallest of them all, but it's the idea that counts!
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Jun 1, 2014 19:01
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Since I get the feeling it'll be overlooked, I have ideas for southern Africa... At the Point of the Iklwa The fall of Somalia was the death knell not only for that nation, but for the concept of Islamic establishment in East Africa overall. While numerous Arab princes and traders had voyaged as far as Zanzibar, the Byzantine push against the Turkish holdings in Anatolia and subsequent assassinations of sultans left any regional Islamic power in the Middle East a tenuous establishment at best. The instability of the area left the peoples of Southern Africa isolated, but the limited contact they'd had with those seeking the area's wealth brought them to work to exploit the area for themselves. As a result, the Kingdom of Mutapa rose to prominence, and trade in the region began to flow greatly, though access to Europe was limited with Somalia's stranglehold around the Gulf of Suez. Now with the Ming having left the area in tatters, Mutapa has grown immensely in power, and become the new Somalia, a titan of commerce with fabulous wealth beyond the belief of many. In turn, settlements further inland are more common and populous - the long-standing yet stable Kongo has extensive contact with them, their push at trade setting up networks of commerce through the formerly impassible jungles. At the far south, the Zulu people have flourished and established a kingdom of their own, a more militaristic nation whose banners have flown for their neighbors. This African League, as it is called by some, is an incredibly capable power combined, one that could, with luck and strategy, even manage to stand up to France. But separated, the three have weaknesses. Though the Kongo has a solid hold on their region, their navies and armies are almost non-existent - Ghana's firm grasp on the region north has forced the Kongolese economy to turn inwards, based more off metalworking and taxation. The Zulu is practically like the hordes of Asia, an imposing military and little else, with revolts common and an often incompetent leadership. Mutapa's wealth and naval dominance comes at the expense of issues much like Kongo's - over-reliance on their Zulu allies for military assistance, alongside internal management issues. Together the three are a force to be feared, but if split apart, they are in danger of being run into the ground by those with dreams for Africa... In-game effects: Mutapa is...basically Kilwa, but without Islam. A Merchant Republic that's got lots of boats and rolling in Diplomatic power all the time. Kongo is an Administrative Monarchy with all that entails, a rock-solid leadership and high tax base and production - a future industrial titan in the making. The Zulu are what the Zulu do best, an Absolute Monarchy with forces that can stand up to those of the Europeans early on. You know how the Ottomans start out with the best military power that falls behind late-game? That. There's still some colonizable places in Africa! Madagascar hasn't been opened, and one can probably wedge things in here and there, though Mutapa is liable to go for colonization for themselves. That said, they are always on really good terms - Historical Ally bonus ought to be given here to show that they default to being allies. ...I do not know what to do with India or south Asia, I will leave those to the people with greater interest in them.
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Jun 1, 2014 19:28
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But...but...the Zulu weren't even a thing until the late 18th century!
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Jun 1, 2014 19:43
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Patter Song posted:But...but...the Zulu weren't even a thing until the late 18th century! Not even as an ethnicity to boot; it wasn't until the Kingdom was established that Zulu were a thing. They're tempting because they're one of the few African historical nations people recognize (thanks Civilization, hi Mansa Musa) but they're way too late here. Vicky 2 or a late EU4 run is the real time period and Vicky 2 Zulu are almost always doomed since :greatbritain:
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Jun 1, 2014 19:50
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YF-23 posted:We need to flesh this out. AJ and Cyrahzax, you guys use skype, right? Yeah, cyrahzax02. AdventFalls posted:Down in Africa 
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Jun 1, 2014 20:00
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Are we still doing the whole Suez Canal 400 years early thing?
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Jun 1, 2014 20:07
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theblastizard posted:Are we still doing the whole Suez Canal 400 years early thing? Yes, although I'm still trying to figure out how to set that in the mod since I haven't really gotten a handle on how canals work in WoN. So if anybody knows...
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Jun 1, 2014 20:18
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AdventFalls posted:Not even as an ethnicity to boot; it wasn't until the Kingdom was established that Zulu were a thing. They're tempting because they're one of the few African historical nations people recognize (thanks Civilization, hi Mansa Musa) but they're way too late here. Vicky 2 or a late EU4 run is the real time period and Vicky 2 Zulu are almost always doomed since :greatbritain: ...not even as an ethnicity? How the hell can an ethnicity go from not existing to being the basis of a kingdom in the span of a few hundred years? I figured there have to be, well, people in that region...
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Jun 1, 2014 20:26
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EDIT: Disregard, that was EU3.
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Jun 1, 2014 20:26
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##Join Discordians Why would I ignore the true calling of my heart?
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Jun 1, 2014 20:49
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Oooh, I have sooooo many ideas for the New World.
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Jun 1, 2014 21:15
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Can we do Africa without the tired cliches of new Carthage? A strong merchant Swahili state is likely, given that it actually happened otl and I think we can reliably assume that East African trading is strong as all hell with the ultra china. South Africa? Well with no canal yet, it depends on whether or not we're thinking about Cape sea traffic being useful - it'd be cool to accelerate the development of South Africa as a trading port. Let's put a Chinese trading empire down there. And then let's put a ludicrously high revolt risk on all their provinces, with no cores. gently caress it, if Africa's going to play on the usual cliches - let's play with the worst one of all, explosive decolonisation events.
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Jun 1, 2014 21:57
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I think actually calling it Carthage is a bit too on the nose, but I do like the idea of the various nobles run out of Rome over the last few centuries of political upheaval forming their own exile government somewhere. It doesn't even need to be big or threatening, I just think it's a cool fluff idea even if it ends up just being relegated to an OPM in favor of the other African ideas or something.
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Jun 1, 2014 22:05
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Forget New Carthage, how about Super Zimbabwe and Super Kilwa fighting for supremacy?
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Jun 1, 2014 22:05
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lenoon posted:Can we do Africa without the tired cliches of new Carthage? Yes, there is going to be a canal. Rincewind just hasn't figured out how to put it in yet.
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Jun 1, 2014 22:10
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Somebody in the EU4 mod forum had a decision that just immediately starts and completes the canal for free, so I'll just give it to whichever stupid minor power holds the provinces unless there's some more elegant way to do it.
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Jun 1, 2014 22:16
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AdventFalls posted:Down in Africa Bunch of racists going to Africa after being driven out of their homeland for one reason or another and seeking conquest...you've basically made the Draka.
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Jun 1, 2014 22:34
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TheMcD posted:Yay, the Inclusionists made it as a major party! Sure, it's the smallest of them all, but it's the idea that counts!  Inclusionists  Gurgen III Qutuzid This is a day of celebrations, Senator Whitlock! The Senate has shown that the faith in multi-cultural and multi-religious tolerance still rings true, and our party now belongs with the great five. Do we have any plan of conduct or plans for the future, or are we to await news from the world before making any decisions? TheFlyingLlama posted:
GSD posted:
I may not be officially appointed by Senator Whitlock to speak for the party, but as long as your military agenda stays pacifistic-defensive and you accept citizen of every faith, blood and tongue as true citizen of the Empire I personally can't see anything wrong with having both the religiously tolerant Guiding Light and the isolationist Da Qin included as sub-parties amongst the Inclusionists. You are all of minorities who only seeks representation within the state, and the representation of every imperial citizen is the main point of our Party. Do the rest of the Inclusionists have any complaints about my points, or are you of a similar position as myself?
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Jun 1, 2014 22:53
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It doesn't have to be called New Carthage but I think the idea is good.
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Jun 1, 2014 23:26
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AdventFalls posted:It doesn't have to be called New Carthage but I think the idea is good. I still stand by my Draka comparison, which makes me inherently dislike it.
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Jun 1, 2014 23:57
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 Seeing as we are the current largest party, I have a few suggestions to make that I would like other members to go over: 1. Succession should be generational and change should occur around every Senate reorganization/session, unless the current leader steps down. Leadership should be determined among members through a -*quick*- vote, so whoever plans to make a case for themselves should do so quickly, concisely, and preferably before the Senate sessions. A Senator's family can not hold leadership successively, so the current leader can not nominate their son/daughter/nephew/niece/third cousin twice removed to be the next leader. We don't want to be Douxes now, do we? The family can come back a generation after to nominate for leadership. (Basically, one term per member per "generation". After "S. Emilia Hira's" term is up, I [StrifeHira] can not be voted to be the next leader of the party, but can after the next. If Rubix Squid/JT Jag/Clayren becomes the next leader, they can not be voted in two times in a row, but can try for leadership again after the new leader.) 2. New leaders should always be looking towards cooperation with the other parties over conflict; we extend olive branches to other parties, so to speak, in the name of improvement. We're here to help things progress in the Empire, and making a bunch of enemies will simply not help that. Coalitions are key to this, but do not overdo it. Those looking to become party leaders should keep both this and the goal of progress in mind. Lastly, new leaders will work with the Emperor or Empress, so make sure to try and throw together something that's worth their time in emergency situations. (Summarized, please don't pick fights. And please don't try something antithetical to the party goals. If the Adventurer Merchants and Inclusionists want to get some colonies going, support them. If the new Marivians want to up our army or naval techs, support them. etc.) 3. Leaders should have a picture of themselves made to keep track of succession. Leadership candidates are welcome to put up those as well, even if it only amounts to who has the fanciest hat or most modern sense of dress. If this is against one's beliefs or cannot be accomplished for any reason, state it and they will be given a placeholder. (Throw together something in the CK2 Ruler Designer, find a picture off Wikipedia/Google, make one yourself, have your kids make one for you, method matters not. Last bit is a bit of flavor if you want to go with something other than a picture of a person.) Just some things to consider for the party members, if objections come up I'm all ears. ---------- I have some ideas for Africa mixing together in my head but I'm in agreement with Yvonmukluk, please no pseudo-Draka. Please.
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Jun 2, 2014 00:30
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Throwing in agreement against not-Draka. It is even located in the same place. (Not that a differently located Draka would be better).
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Jun 2, 2014 00:46
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The Hanse LP already did the "Carthage in Exile" thing, anyway. ----------------------------  Righto, lads! We've been upgraded from a coalition to a full-fledged party! With this new promotion, I feel it's time to lay down some ground rules on how we'll operate within the Senate! 1) The leader of the party is the captain. The position of captain shall change hands after each Senate session, or if the captain wishes to step down, or is deposed. To pick a new captain, the crew must have a quick vote. The captain is the only one who can make proposals to the senate, but can only do so with approval from the crew. Between each major update, the current party leader steps down and is replaced by someone who the rest of the party votes for. I mean very quick votes, as in less than 24 hours. 2) The rest of the party members are the crew. The crew may approve proposals made by the captain, and may weigh in and modify the proposal to their wishes. The crew chooses the captain after each Senate session. The crew may stick to their original party's goals, but must work towards the larger goals of the Adventurer Merchants. Only the leader of the party can present proposals to be voted on by the senate at large. However, the rest of the party must vote to approve or reject it, and party members may suggest alterations to the proposal if they wish. Always keep in mind that our focus is exploration, exploitation, and excitement - try not to make alterations that screw with these goals too much. 3) I shall assume the position of captain until the end of the next proper senate session. I'm in charge until the LP proper begins again, basically. I'm not going to make proposals until we've sorted out the world, don't worry. Wind in our sails and land at our backs - FOR GOLD AND GLORY! signed, Senator Enrico Valentinius 
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Jun 2, 2014 01:11
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I just thought it fitting considering this is a Rome LP. People can take the bits of mine they like.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:38
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TheMcD posted:Yay, the Inclusionists made it as a major party! Sure, it's the smallest of them all, but it's the idea that counts!  Not quite so small anymore. I've just gotten back from a particularly lively "caucus" with the other Komnenians and it is my pleasure to announce that the Komnenian Restoration has decided to ##Join the Inclusionists. I look forward to working with my fellow peaceniks, but as my first order of business must ask: what can we do about the fact that our bitter ideological rivals in the Moternos-Marian coalition dominate the senate? I personally propose drinking heavily and singing rude songs about them, but I'm open to other ideas. On a sadder note, I must announce the death of our beloved senate mascot Scruffles XXVI. He died of liver failure at the ripe old age of 21 (or 147 in Consul years) and will be dearly missed. Long live Scruffles XXVII!
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Jun 2, 2014 01:47
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Da Qin will cooperate with the Inclusionists. Your philosophy of seeking stability and unity is similar to our own, the philosophy of inward perfection. And it is through this that we will become equals of China and the Da Qin of old, not through bloody conquest. / 
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Jun 2, 2014 01:54
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 Huzzah! Obviously the first point of order should be the commissioning of some sort of monument to commemorate this occasion! Would our dear emperor prefer a statue or a building, like a library?
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Jun 2, 2014 01:55
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AdventFalls posted:I just thought it fitting considering this is a Rome LP. People can take the bits of mine they like. I know we're talking about Africa now, but maybe we could use your idea for one of the breakaway nations that used to be part of Rome before being lost during Branas's regime? Say, from a fluff perspective, that once all these different republics and douxes formed their independence league and it became obvious that Branas was going to cave, various senators, military officers, and other politicians that found themselves on the wrong end of Roman politics but didn't hold land of their own relocated to one of the secessionist nations and installed themselves as the rulers there. I don't know, I'm trying to make your general idea work because I really like it. I also have no idea what this Drakka thing everyone opposed to the idea is talking about, so v  v
Punished Chuck fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 02:02
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StrifeHira posted:Seeing as we are the current largest party, I have a few suggestions to make that I would like other members to go over...  I have no objection to the ideas that have been outlined and would vote in favor of putting them into action. If there is to be a vote for party leadership I would support the august Senator Hira as our party's first leader.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:03
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I know we're talking about Africa now, but maybe we could use your idea for one of the breakaway nations that used to be part of Rome before being lost during Branas's regime? Say, from a fluff perspective, that once all these different republics and douxes formed their independence league and it became obvious that Branas was going to cave, various senators, military officers, and other politicians that found themselves on the wrong end of Roman politics but didn't hold land of their own relocated to one of the secessionist nations and installed themselves as the rulers there. Ditto. Go nuts with that idea.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:24
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Duckbag posted:I look forward to working with my fellow peaceniks, but as my first order of business must ask: what can we do about the fact that our bitter ideological rivals in the Moternos-Marian coalition dominate the senate? I personally propose drinking heavily and singing rude songs about them, but I'm open to other ideas. We could have sex with their mothers/sisters/wives/husbands/servants. That has served my family well in the past.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:28
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Well, these new robes are nice. I look forward to our times spreading peace and prosperity together. WeaponGradeSadness posted:I also have no idea what this Drakka thing everyone opposed to the idea is talking about, so v Draka: British loyalists from the (now former) 13 colonies move to and take over South Africa after the American Revolutionary War. They then proceed to conquer the world with the power of racism and bad writing. It is a pretty terrible series. GSD fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 02:41
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GoatLord posted:We could have sex with their mothers/sisters/wives/husbands/servants. That has served my family well in the past. I warn you, my family is extremely litigious and prone to decades-long legal injunctions against people who offend them. Keep your pants on or we'll sue them off you.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:51
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 New Marians, here are our codes and regulations: 1. First of all, our leader is the Consul. Any member of the party may make proposals to the senate, but the Consul has power of veto. Veto may also be achieved by a 2/3rds majority against, except for those proposals made by the Consul. 2. Once per senate session, a member of the party may call for the Consul to step down and a new one to be elected. To do this they need two other senators to second their call. This will result in a *quick* vote for leadership. Of course, succession must be non-hereditary. 3. We must keep solidarity among our ranks. All we must agree to is that Firstly, our nation must be defended. Secondly, the men and women of this empire, all of them, are worthy if they are willing to fight. Last of all. those who would deny this weaken us and make themselves our enemy. If you keep to these principles, you may believe and practice whatever other ideologies you may wish. 4. Last of all, even our bitter foes can be allied with if the needs must. The state of the world can change drastically in a moment and we must be prepared to do the unthinkable if it preserves us and preserves Rome. To all of you who have aligned with us, I say to you: you are great men all with courage and dedication. I look forward to working alongside you as the founding Consul of this party. Signed, Senator Armatus Mars the fourth. (And Family.)  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All this is open to change of course. Any suggestions?
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Jun 2, 2014 03:08
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 New Marian imbecile! Do you know who else spoke such words? Our Western cousins! The Germans were given a similar deal: land for valor. Do you know what they realized? That a Rome without a people to defend her, a Rome without Romans, is no Rome at all! And now it is still lost to their filthy kingdoms! You demand that we thrust weapons into the hands of the conquered and ask them to fight our enemies? You are mad or a traitor, and your every self-righteous speech sickens me. As bad as the New Marians are, they at least pretend to be loyal, unlike the scum in the Inclusionists. Your openly proclaim that Rome is a mistake. You actually believe that peoples are equal, as if a Scythian could match a Greek, or even a Chinese! Your every word is treason, and you even advocate for religious "tolerance"! For condemning the masses to hell, for equating heretics and false prophets with the Apostles! Know this: equality is a lie, one you use to control barbarian hordes instead of rightfully uplifting them! One you use to hold those unfortunate enough to not be born Roman in perpetual squalor! You are the party of Mammon even as the New Marians are the party of Aamon. All of you will burn.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:23
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
I will remind you that that is not what actually happened. They were never included. Always at arms lengths, never allowed the privilege of citizenship. The fall of the west was a consequence of exclusionary policies that stopped those "barbarians" from becoming true citizens of the empire. We must not make the same mistake. The structure of our army is different, too. Yes, disloyalty was fostered because even under Rome they fought for their own kings, their own chiefs. But we are a single roman army now and in these ranks everyone starts at the bottom. Be they sultan or senator, there are no privileges here! And even putting that aside. God alone shows who is righteous, through the strength he grants to those who please him. So tell me, which party here had to coalition with three others just to get into the senate and still has little over half our numbers?
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Jun 2, 2014 04:58
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:58 |
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As Executive Vice President of the Unitas Party, I must strongly condemn your attack on our forward thinking precepts. I think there is room for the foreigner as long as their goal is to no longer be foreign. We must welcome all and ask little - only the willingness to assimilate.
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Jun 2, 2014 05:05
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