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Just got out of a sim battle where a squad of 4 IL-2s literally killed everything. They dropped single bombs with unerring accuracy and rooted out every single tank in the Jungle. Going to go out on a limb and say there's definitely some kind of air vision thing going around.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:35
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So I just got into this game about a week ago, and I'm wondering if it makes sense to do anything other than turn fight in arcade battles. It feels like the physics model is just way too forgiving for anything else to work, and I'm having trouble really judging the effectiveness of different strategies since most people I fight seem perfectly capable of crashing into the ground without much encouragement from me anyway. I'll probably start dicking around in RB soon anyway, but I'm still curious about what works and doesn't in AB.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:35
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Feindfeuer posted:When the Il-28 and Ho-229 get added the Arado 234 will be even more useless than it already is, as there will be two bomb-capable jets ingame that actually have guns to defend themselves. I dunno why they don't just put on the rear firing 20mms that some of the Arados had. The version in Il-2 has a twin MG151 turret that fires backwards. Paradoxish posted:So I just got into this game about a week ago, and I'm wondering if it makes sense to do anything other than turn fight in arcade battles. It feels like the physics model is just way too forgiving for anything else to work, and I'm having trouble really judging the effectiveness of different strategies since most people I fight seem perfectly capable of crashing into the ground without much encouragement from me anyway. I'll probably start dicking around in RB soon anyway, but I'm still curious about what works and doesn't in AB. Yes? Turn fighting doesn't work in any mode outside of tier 1. You still have to BnZ in arcade and have an altitude advantage. Unless you like dying.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:42
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Just got out of a sim battle where a squad of 4 IL-2s literally killed everything. They dropped single bombs with unerring accuracy and rooted out every single tank in the Jungle. Going to go out on a limb and say there's definitely some kind of air vision thing going around. Hacks or not, the other team let them bomb everyone by not fielding any fighters to kill the slow il-2s. If you kill the AAA and have air superiority you can just circle around waiting for cannon smoke to appear. If hacking was anywhere near as bad you seem to think then gaijin would have been forced to acknowledge it by now. As it is, its so uncommon they can get away with denying it even exists. Also, l2p get good
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Jun 2, 2014 01:44
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bUm posted:So you get bombed regularly for camping hard and accuse me (who said I move about a lot) of not using flanking and strategy? You realize you have to move to flank, right? Camping and waiting for them to drive into your LoS with a side shot (sometimes) does not count as flanking, sorry. Wow dude you need to relax, I said I don't enjoy that type of gameplay and would prefer not having aircraft. If you don't like that it's cool, to each their own.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:47
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If you aren't flanking in a tank you might as well be playing Cookie Clicker.  Davin Valkri posted:Those can be helpful in a dogfight...maybe? I didn't mention them because that was hopefully an obvious joke post but in all seriousness don't bank on it. If you're good enough to actually use Schrage Musik in a turn-based dogfight then you should be cyber-ace enough to not have to even put yourself in that position in the first place and instead use the surprising agility (for a twin engine fighter) of the Ki-45 to annoy the poo poo out of your opponent through high energy fighting. Outside of Simulation or night battles where you can actually sneak up on your target from behind in a slow paced flight due to limited visibility, Schrage Musik is only useful for humiliating your target by killing them in the most outlandish way possible... much like going full Michael Bay on someone with unguided rockets intended for air-to-ground attacks. Paradoxish posted:So I just got into this game about a week ago, and I'm wondering if it makes sense to do anything other than turn fight in arcade battles. It feels like the physics model is just way too forgiving for anything else to work, and I'm having trouble really judging the effectiveness of different strategies since most people I fight seem perfectly capable of crashing into the ground without much encouragement from me anyway. I'll probably start dicking around in RB soon anyway, but I'm still curious about what works and doesn't in AB. If you want to focus on energy fighting to the point where you're stalling your targets out and energy trapping them then you'll want to step above arcade and into a mode where the flight models are fully implemented. Arcade is just for mindless cartoon fun and mastering the very basics of how to get around in this game. If you're really considering tactics beyond "put the mouse over the plane and click on it" then you're over thinking it. I recommend anyone that plays arcade to try CARBs for the air start but with realistic battle's FM. Most of the people that fly it are focused on ground attack so it's really good practice. Very rarely will you ever have to actually fight more than one fighter at a time.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:53
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Fauxtool posted:Hacks or not, the other team let them bomb everyone by not fielding any fighters to kill the slow il-2s. If you kill the AAA and have air superiority you can just circle around waiting for cannon smoke to appear. These are the only planes I've called out or even suspected. It's hard to find targets from the air in Sim. I've never seen anyone else find targets and land bombs like that. Not even salvos of bombs or rockets, not a single miss, they were either amazing try hards or they've got some foliage removal fuckery. If our team didn't have any good joystick fighters there wasn't exactly anything they could do against 4 joystick planes acting in a team. 
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Jun 2, 2014 01:54
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Thief posted:I didn't mention them because that was hopefully an obvious joke post but in all seriousness don't bank on it. If you're good enough to actually use Schrage Musik in a turn-based dogfight then you should be cyber-ace enough to not have to even put yourself in that position in the first place and instead use the surprising agility (for a twin engine fighter) of the Ki-45 to annoy the poo poo out of your opponent through high energy fighting. Fair enough, I only mentioned it because it's still 20mm cannons at an angle that can surprise some people. Oh, do you guys compile replays anywhere special? Just out of curiosity.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:56
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Even if they removed the grass, bombing is hard as gently caress. I just think they were good.
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Jun 2, 2014 01:57
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:These are the only planes I've called out or even suspected. It's hard to find targets from the air in Sim. I've never seen anyone else find targets and land bombs like that. Not even salvos of bombs or rockets, not a single miss, they were either amazing try hards or they've got some foliage removal fuckery. Then i confused you with some of the other people crying hacks, sorry. My point was that hacks wouldnt have changed anything. Like you said 4 good people with joysticks will wreck a team. There isnt much tanks can do about it. From a balance viewpoint having 4 less tanks and 4 more planes isnt a fair trade off in my opinion. Especially if your team opted to play heavies with only 1 life. They die and probably dont get into planes while if the il-2s die they jump right into tanks. It works out better in RB
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Jun 2, 2014 01:59
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:These are the only planes I've called out or even suspected. It's hard to find targets from the air in Sim. I've never seen anyone else find targets and land bombs like that. Not even salvos of bombs or rockets, not a single miss, they were either amazing try hards or they've got some foliage removal fuckery. I saw a guy in a Ki-84 Ko the other day just going real slow in the middle of a furball. Everytime someone would dive on him or try to get him, he'd make a sudden movement and pilot snipe them. He racked up like 15 kills in 5 minutes. Not sudden like something a human could do. For example he fully turned around and pilot sniped me and faced someone else before my finger could click the fire button on him. That took less than half a second. He did a 180, pilot sniped me, and was facing someone else about to do it to them too. It's the only 'suspicious!' moment I've had on this game.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:00
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Azure Renraku posted:I saw a guy in a Ki-84 Ko the other day just going real slow in the middle of a furball. Everytime someone would dive on him or try to get him, he'd make a sudden movement and pilot snipe them. He racked up like 15 kills in 5 minutes. Not sudden like something a human could do. For example he fully turned around and pilot sniped me and faced someone else before my finger could click the fire button on him. That took less than half a second. He did a 180, pilot sniped me, and was facing someone else about to do it to them too. It's the only 'suspicious!' moment I've had on this game. so basically you see a player do summadat pilot poo poo:  and then you're all like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FQmnrQHhJU
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Jun 2, 2014 02:03
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Oh jeez, stop crying hacks you kids. You did not die to hacks. You died to bullets.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:11
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Thief posted:so basically you see a player do summadat pilot poo poo: It didn't look like that at all. It wasn't stereotypical aimbot like (ie front of plane always faces target) it seemed to follow proper game physics but it was loving fast. Like the time it takes most people to wobble and jink when being chased so as not to get hit by whoever is following them was the time it took them to turn around and shoot. I know some planes can do poo poo like that (premium Chaika and the like) but the aim was pretty much dead on every time. It could very well have just been some stupid skill someone has practiced and got good at, or there could very well be a somewhat intelligent aimbot type program floating around. Then again I'm sure that's what the B-17 I just sniped with a rocket from retarded distances says too.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:11
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Fauxtool posted:It works out better in RB In RB I don't really care because I just get in my planes and shoot back. In SB it's a bit lovely. SB's combined arms has a couple problems in general but it's kind of hard to complain all that loudly when they're still ironing out all the bugs.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:11
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So I want to give tanks another try, since the last time I played was like a day after it came out. Can it be done with fun to be had rather than just a series of frustrating one hit kills by poo poo you can't even pen?
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Jun 2, 2014 02:28
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Azure Renraku posted:So I want to give tanks another try, since the last time I played was like a day after it came out. Can it be done with fun to be had rather than just a series of frustrating one hit kills by poo poo you can't even pen? I would say yes, but given the tenor of your question, no.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:31
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Just got out of a sim battle where a squad of 4 IL-2s literally killed everything. They dropped single bombs with unerring accuracy and rooted out every single tank in the Jungle. Going to go out on a limb and say there's definitely some kind of air vision thing going around. I was going to say that I always see red indicators of enemy tanks (AI and player) from far away in Jungle while in planes, like the map had something busted in its scripting, but sim battle? There's no T,1,7 with ease business possible in sim right?
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Jun 2, 2014 02:37
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Azure Renraku posted:It didn't look like that at all. It wasn't stereotypical aimbot like (ie front of plane always faces target) it seemed to follow proper game physics but it was loving fast. Like the time it takes most people to wobble and jink when being chased so as not to get hit by whoever is following them was the time it took them to turn around and shoot. I know some planes can do poo poo like that (premium Chaika and the like) but the aim was pretty much dead on every time. It could very well have just been some stupid skill someone has practiced and got good at, or there could very well be a somewhat intelligent aimbot type program floating around. Next time you feel this way, save the replay so we can tell you what's actually happening.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:42
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Azure Renraku posted:So I want to give tanks another try, since the last time I played was like a day after it came out. Can it be done with fun to be had rather than just a series of frustrating one hit kills by poo poo you can't even pen? Play some arcade tanks to get used to the mechanics, level up to earn more mods and higher tanks, and can use the indicator to see where you can penetrate certain tanks more easily. After playing this for awhile, you can move on to historical/sim battles and have more fun. Not sure if you played WoT at all, but I have an easier time in tanks here than there.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:51
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Lol you can abuse the hell out of the 'shoot through the crest of hills thing' as long as you use 3rd person view. Most people have no idea what's happening. Also I thought they said they fixed the B25s horrible rudder issues. Did they not pass that on to the Russian one? It feels no different at all and is just as uslessly uncontrollable above 300kph as it was before. Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 02:52
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Fart Car '97 posted:Lol you can abuse the hell out of the 'shoot through the crest of hills thing' as long as you use 3rd person view. Most people have no idea what's happening. Is this actually a thing or do we just mean arcing shots over hills?
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Jun 2, 2014 03:00
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Subyng posted:Is this actually a thing or do we just mean arcing shots over hills? You can shoot through certain crests, they aren't really hills, but when someone thinks they are no visible to you (and they aren't if you are in aiming mode) but when you shoot at them from commander view it will go through the ground and hit them.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:05
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I've surprised the hell out of more than one Tiger that way.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:09
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Yeah you can shoot through the very tops of hills, like your shell just goes straight through it. It's awesome because if the other person is in scope mode you're invisible to them, and if they're not they probably don't realize they can shoot through the hill too.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:10
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Burno posted:You can shoot through certain crests, they aren't really hills, but when someone thinks they are no visible to you (and they aren't if you are in aiming mode) but when you shoot at them from commander view it will go through the ground and hit them. You can do this in sniper mode too, it doesn't really have to do with shooting through the hill, or 3rd person, you just have to aim above the hill like you would in order to hit them anyway.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:11
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Fart Car '97 posted:Also I thought they said they fixed the B25s horrible rudder issues. Did they not pass that on to the Russian one? It feels no different at all and is just as uslessly uncontrollable above 300kph as it was before. It's not fixed for any variant. They made the rudder yaw your plane more quickly, but it still doesn't affect your vector  It's like none of the devs tested the issue for themselves
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Jun 2, 2014 03:12
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JacksLibido posted:Wow dude you need to relax, I said I don't enjoy that type of gameplay and would prefer not having aircraft. If you don't like that it's cool, to each their own. To be clear: I don't care that you play that way (beyond your complaint about being bombed being directly correlated to sitting in one spot), but playing that way is objectively not flanking (requires moving) or strategic (literally all most pubbies do after learning not to just drive out and die). CA is a bit messy (just like it was in CBT), but they'd probably lack testers if they made it optional. Ultimately, I fully expect Gaijin to want all battles to be CA so it is only natural to force it (once tanks are established, this'll probably be the case; they'll probably progressively integrate ships the same way when the time comes [ships CBT, ships CA CBT, ships OBT, full plane/tank/ship CA]); planes only gets its independence currently because it's already established. Lastly, in case you haven't noticed, people in this thread are liable to call you out/mock you if your complaint has more to do with a flaw in your play (unwillingness to accept that camping is a generally unfun stagnating mechanic that they're trying to stamp out of tanks between CA and arty) than a flaw in the game/direction it's heading.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:23
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Won my first game as germans by bringing the reserve tank into T3 and it was domination, so I just rushed the point and hid behind a rock while Jagdpanzers murdered anything that got close to the point and we won lol. Reserve tanks OP
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Jun 2, 2014 03:23
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I can't stop laughing about this.  
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Jun 2, 2014 03:24
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Skwee posted:You can do this in sniper mode too, it doesn't really have to do with shooting through the hill, or 3rd person, you just have to aim above the hill like you would in order to hit them anyway. No, he's specifically referring to literally shooting through the hill. You can shoot through terrain, obstacles (e.g. bunkers, sand bags or trees) and other tanks. Being out of sniper mode helps when the crest of the hill is right next to you, and therefore blocking your sniper mode view. It doesn't make a difference when the enemy tank is the one behind an obstacle but your view is otherwise unobstructed.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:24
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Skwee posted:You can do this in sniper mode too, it doesn't really have to do with shooting through the hill, or 3rd person, you just have to aim above the hill like you would in order to hit them anyway. No, you can shoot through the tops of hills. Your bullet goes through them, despite it throwing up a smoke cloud like it impacted.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:27
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Liberatore posted:No, he's specifically referring to literally shooting through the hill. You can shoot through terrain, obstacles (e.g. bunkers, sand bags or trees) and other tanks. I tried it a few times before posting to make sure i wasn't being dumb, and all I did was shoot hills. Fart Car '97 posted:No, you can shoot through the tops of hills. Your bullet goes through them, despite it throwing up a smoke cloud like it impacted. Huh, I dunno then. It didn't work for me though maybe i just suck at aiming in 3rd person because aiming in 3rd person is dumb
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Jun 2, 2014 03:28
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It's been a known issue for at least a week, some SprGr did a big post detailing it with tests and everything on the WT reddit.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:32
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Is it just me or is basically impossible to do anything to planes outside of that one in a million Panther shot? I played 2 rounds in the AA things and basically fired the whole time and did not score a single hit. Meanwhile planes basically can just dunk on everyone else constantly.
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Jun 2, 2014 03:46
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Now I remember why I stopped playing the ME410s. You can't catch anyone unless they want you to or they're below 3.0 BR.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:09
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unlawfulsoup posted:Is it just me or is basically impossible to do anything to planes outside of that one in a million Panther shot? I played 2 rounds in the AA things and basically fired the whole time and did not score a single hit. Meanwhile planes basically can just dunk on everyone else constantly. I've had plenty of CA matches when I get a wing blown off by Flak about 15 seconds after I spawn by an AI AAA halfway up a sheer cliff face so it's not just planes dunking on everyone. I'm having trouble finding a German T1 tank that I like while I build up to the PIV F2. It seems like all the German T1 tanks have a critical flaw that makes them really hard to use without significant upgrades. The PIII turret is hand cranked and takes swivel orders as a suggestion so I can't deal with a T50 Tokyo Drifting around me. The P4 Austf C is a slow pig with a poo poo gun and seemingly blows up in a stiff wind. The T1 StuG also has a poo poo gun and has a crippling weakness to flanks; I've had a T50 or T34 Prototypes routinely charge at me through my field of fire, eat 4-5 cannon shots from me, and casually saunter behind me and shoot me in the rear end until I die. The 38(t) is strictly ok, I've had better luck with the gun on that than the P4 but it is also shockingly flimsy even compared to the T50 on the Russian side. I take it my only option is to suck it up until I get to the F2?
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Jun 2, 2014 04:28
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Flying in a plane really makes you realize how small the tank maps are. God I wish they were a lot bigger now.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:31
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:Flying in a plane really makes you realize how small the tank maps are. God I wish they were a lot bigger now. The tank maps feel just barely big enough when you're in a tank, I want Kursk to go back in the RB rotation so that we can get some planes on tank map that has some scale.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:33
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DeathSandwich posted:I've had plenty of CA matches when I get a wing blown off by Flak about 15 seconds after I spawn by an AI AAA halfway up a sheer cliff face so it's not just planes dunking on everyone. play the 38(t) if you think the 75 mm death gun is poo poo for some reason, or if you are willing to think you are wrong for a second, try those tanks again. (The Pz IV c and the StuG A. especially the StuG A.) With the STuG/Pz IV C/ Pz IV F1 if you can't pen the T-50 or the T-34, load HE ammo and shoot so that your round hits the ground underneath of the tank you are shooting at, i have had pretty good sucess in my Pz IV F1 shooting HE rounds under T-34s and instantly blowing them up. But really the 38(t) should be enough to get you through all of tier one and have fun, I thought it was a really nice tank. It's gun can pen all the things, and if you play like me (Idk how I play so I can't explain it) you usually don't get shot.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:39
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