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DoctorStrangelove posted:The fight was so Dark Souls it was almost painful. Hahah, that's what I was thinking too. It is like someone doing a taunt when their opponent has a sliver of life left and the other guy manages to get a back stab and kill him instantly.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:21
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You know, I'm not really all that shocked with this episode. I'm...disappointed, of course I wanted Oberyn to win. But I'm not shocked. It's very clearly GRRM's gimmick to go for subversions by killing characters the audience is rooting for and who would heroically win in other media, in the name of "that's not how things would go in reality." Which, of course, is true, but...it's making for some boring, predictable writing. I want to be surprised and WOAH HOLY poo poo by this show. but I'm just not because these big major events that have all this buildup are following a trend of "the guy you think will win and want to win, actually dies". That works amazingly well the first time, somewhat the second...but it very quickly loses its impact and just becomes tiring. The only thing WOAH HOLY poo poo about this was the brutality of it, but that's - that's discouraging. The most shocking thing about the show shouldn't be something that lets me compare it to Saw or Hostel!
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Jun 2, 2014 06:22
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How many times has that happened other than Ned and Oberyn, honestly? Twice in four seasons does not a trend make. (It's possible I am actually forgetting something important this isn't just facetiousness)
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Jun 2, 2014 06:23
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The only reason I'm not giving up on the show when Oberyn lost was the hope that The Hound will still get a chance to kill his brother in a super brutal way.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:23
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I cant tell if Arya was laughing at her twisted fate or the Hound 
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Jun 2, 2014 06:24
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Napoleon Bonaparty posted:You have no idea... I'm pretty sure she's clear to do nude scenes, but I'd rather she didn't. Dany's are weird enough and Emilia Clarke is older than I am. No More Heroes posted:I cant tell if Arya was laughing at her twisted fate or the Hound A bit of everything I imagine.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:24
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I think it's at her ridiculous journey to get here being maybe pointless.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:24
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Zombies' Downfall posted:How many times has that happened other than Ned and Oberyn, honestly? Twice in four seasons does not a trend make. I was pretty shocked when Robb and Cat died.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:25
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I think this is the part of the series where Arya, Sansa, and Tyrion can relate to another fictional character's reaction upon realizing that his back is against the wall and the only option left is unmitigated, merciless insanity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOwvr3tIWAo
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Jun 2, 2014 06:25
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Poor Sam. lolJohn Bradley West posted:Speaking at the UK launch of the show's fourth season, Bradley said: "I had one fan come up to me. He said, 'I love Game of Thrones'. I said, 'Thank you'. He said, 'Can I ask one question?'. I said, 'Of course'. He said... 'Why are you still so fat? I can't buy it'...In a show where there are dragons, zombies... there's a woman who gives birth to a cloud! And the one thing that you can't buy and don't get is me being a bit podgy!"
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Jun 2, 2014 06:25
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BubbleGoose posted:How could you not like Ramsey? He's charismatic in a creepy way. Plus the boy looks drat good with his shirt off. Na'at posted:Seriously now that Obie's out he's right behind Tyrion as far as entertaining and fun characters go. Agreed. Liked him as Barry but in this series him and his Daddy hit it out of the park almost every time they are on screen. Papa Bolton is quieter but his little nuances are amazing. The red wedding armour reveal and eyes are priceless. Gonna miss them when they die. Not a book reader... just guessing. Valar Morghulis and alla that. My friend was confused by Arya laughing when she heard Lysa is dead but I thought Arya nailed that moment of bleak laughter. monster on a stick posted:In the "Behind the Scenes" they said Oberyn was also a cop on his last day before retirement. Does this mean his son grows up to become a masked vigilante?
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Jun 2, 2014 06:27
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Just saw the behind the scenes, Sansa isn't Cersei and knows she can make political moves that don't involve her vagina. This is probably good for her character and the show.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:28
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Aristobulus posted:The only thing WOAH HOLY poo poo about this was the brutality of it, but that's - that's discouraging. The most shocking thing about the show shouldn't be something that lets me compare it to Saw or Hostel!
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Jun 2, 2014 06:28
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vanbags posted:So the Mountain is supposed to be the baddest man in the Seven Kingdoms, universally feared by all men, including Jaime Lannister who was supposedly the best swordsman in the land? And he was not only handily beat, but showboated on, by Oberyn? The Mountain is universally feared because he's huge and apparently proved that the fountain of youth is cutting off horse's heads. Oberyn is not some mincing pomp though- he's called the Red Viper because when he's not loving his way through every brothel in town, he's one of the most skilled and vicious warriors in the kingdom. Remember his intro scene? "We need to find him before he kills someone."
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Jun 2, 2014 06:28
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Von_Doom posted:Does this mean his son grows up to become a masked vigilante? All of them. And the daughters.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:29
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Zombies' Downfall posted:How many times has that happened other than Ned and Oberyn, honestly? Twice in four seasons does not a trend make. Yeah, it's not a lot if you write it out, yet he does have a reputation for killing good characters. Which means, for me, I expect good characters to die and I'm not shocked or moved when he does it, anymore. The reaction is more of a sigh and "what now?" kind of thing. I mean, it's clearly meant to be a subversion - Oberyn was built up this entire season, for that fight. He was winning the fight. Vast majority of media would have him heroically win. So of course GRRM kills him. I'm not saying that sarcastically, all the build up and hype meant I knew Oberyn was going to lose, and expected him to die, because GRRM is predictable now. By trying so hard to subvert expectations, eventually that means he meets expectations. This really isn't a show as clever as I thought at first, where anything can happen who knows? It's just a show where GRRM does the opposite of what the average show would do.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:29
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:All of them. And the daughters. Now I want Tywin to only die when faced with an army of masked Spanish children. "You killed my father...prepare to die."
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Jun 2, 2014 06:31
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I don't know, maybe Oberyn survived that!
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Jun 2, 2014 06:32
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Maybe the mountain was rusty from only fighting farmers and peasants. His size and give no fucks attitude is why people fear him. I don't think he's a renowned swordsman or anything.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:32
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Jamies expressions throughout were pretty comical. Gonna pour one out for Oberyn tonight.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:32
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Jerusalem posted:I don't know, maybe Oberyn survived that! Somebody get Thoros of Myr stat!
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Jun 2, 2014 06:33
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Aristobulus posted:You know, I'm not really all that shocked with this episode. I'm...disappointed, of course I wanted Oberyn to win. But I'm not shocked. It's very clearly GRRM's gimmick to go for subversions by killing characters the audience is rooting for and who would heroically win in other media, in the name of "that's not how things would go in reality." The thing is, I've read authors who regularly kill their characters for shock value. Usually they come from pointless, unsatisfying sources and try to be 'realistic' but they always come off as cheap, badly written and often pointless besides trolling your reader. GRMM does it well, every major character death has massive consequences. Ned Stark's death started a war. Robb Stark's death lead to the eventually slaying of Joffery and probably even more poo poo down the line. They're never empty. And he always leaves enough of them around so you keep reading. Obviously, if you do too much of this people will eventually stop reading your books since you are basically throwing away novels worth of character development just to prove that 'no one is safe'. Which I've done before. Because at a certain point, you just stop becoming invested and the narrative simply isn't enough to keep you interested. GoT definitely skirts the edge of it. Unfortunately, Oberyn is a secondary character who basically serves to bury Tyrion even deeper. I don't think GRMM is at the point of trolling his readers and writing events simply to piss them off or to solely subvert expectations. (Not yet, anyway). The whole premise to GRMM's writing basically boils down to this: "This character has a problem. How can I keep making that problem worse?" If you go with that in mind, you probably won't be surprised. Nothing ever works out, because where's the fun in that? The fun comes from seeing how a character is able to get around the mountains of poo poo GRMM puts on them. Or when that character can't get out of it, the effects of the death of that character on all the others. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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No More Heroes posted:I was pretty shocked when Robb and Cat died. Robb's campaign was basically "Dude you we're doing well but this decision... well you are loving up... DUDE YOU'RE loving UP! DUDE WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DOING ANYMORE?!" And then everyone died because he was SUCH A gently caress UP. He's lucky he didn't have Theon's arc for being such a gently caress-up.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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BubbleGoose posted:I don't think Tyrion's going to die, because...well, it's being built up too much. But would Tywin let Tyrion die? That's actually a good question. Because when he had the chance to kill Tyrion, he didn't. His reason? Because Tyrion is a Lannister. It should sting Tywin's pride, if anything, that someone killed one of his own and got away with it. You just made me realize how weird it is that Tywin doesn't seem to care who killed Joffrey. If he wanted to find out for sure who did it he would have a real trial, or send Varys out to crack the case or something.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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Does anyone have a picture of that gnarly flayed dude in Moat Cailin? I don't have a capture card for my TV.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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Jerusalem posted:I don't know, maybe Oberyn survived that! Whoever made Jamies fake hand can make Oberyn a fake head
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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My penis size is quite small. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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Aristobulus posted:Yeah, it's not a lot if you write it out, yet he does have a reputation for killing good characters. I still loved Oberyn even though he was clearly going to die for a hundred reasons. I still hoped he might win, even believed he could for a fleeting moment that made me feel dumb as gently caress. Did my expectation detract from the emotional impact of the moment? Yeah, absolutely, but I was still able to get invested in the character and the fight. Say what you will about not being able to subvert expectations like they could in season one, that's pretty impressive.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:34
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I think it would have been clever if Oberyn had actually forced out a confession that Tywin ordered the rape and the infanticide in so many words, then got his head crushed in. Oberyn's storyline feels kind of pointless as-is.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:39
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Aristobulus posted:I mean, it's clearly meant to be a subversion - Oberyn was built up this entire season, for that fight. He was winning the fight. Vast majority of media would have him heroically win. So of course GRRM kills him. I'm not saying that sarcastically, all the build up and hype meant I knew Oberyn was going to lose, and expected him to die, because GRRM is predictable now. You're not wrong, but I think you're being slightly unfair. GRRM has said in interviews that he doesn't do the hero dying thing to be shocking or edgy. He does it so that you stop skimming over random action scenes that involve protagonists- because every time a character, now matter how good or major, is in danger, whether it's at the end of a book/season or not, he wants the very real possibility that they could get their head exploded.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:40
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The Oldest Man posted:I think it would have been clever if Oberyn had actually forced out a confession that Tywin ordered the rape and the infanticide in so many words, then got his head crushed in. Oberyn's storyline feels kind of pointless as-is. Oberyn really was meant more for Tyrion, to give him a little bit of hope and then crush it. His death was necessary for the character development of Tyrion, wherever that may lead. EDIT: Avasculous posted:You're not wrong, but I think you're being slightly unfair. And this is why he does it well, precisely because he's not doing it for shock value. And that their deaths do resonate and aren't pointless, even if they seem to be.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:40
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No More Heroes posted:Somebody get Thoros of Myr stat! Thoros: All things are possible through the Red God!  Thoros: nevermind 
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Jun 2, 2014 06:41
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I love this show. Had a good group of watchers over tonight and we freaked out at all the right moments. Holy poo poo what a brutal end to Oberyn. Welp, that's how things go in Westeros. 
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Jun 2, 2014 06:42
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Avasculous posted:You're not wrong, but I think you're being slightly unfair. And I gotta say, it works. At least it does in the tv show. If this were a typical fantasy where good guys mostly win the fights and battles, it wouldn't be nearly as nail biting. I truly think GRRM has ruined me for fantasy and sci-fci fiction from now on. I worry that the Star Wars reboot won't have a fraction of GoT's intensity.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:44
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Carlton Banks posted:Whoever made Jamies fake hand can make Oberyn a fake head Last guy with a gold head did not do too well
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Jun 2, 2014 06:45
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Aristobulus posted:You know, I'm not really all that shocked with this episode. I'm...disappointed, of course I wanted Oberyn to win. But I'm not shocked. It's very clearly GRRM's gimmick to go for subversions by killing characters the audience is rooting for and who would heroically win in other media, in the name of "that's not how things would go in reality." You didn't pay attention to the episode at all. There was so much amazing writing tonight, and it's sad that all of it flew over your head.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:46
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It's getting past that fine line of not giving a poo poo or wanting to keep watching because any character you care about is killed off anyway.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:48
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Fenarisk posted:It's getting past that fine line of not giving a poo poo or wanting to keep watching because any character you care about is killed off anyway. Littlefinger has never been doing better buddy.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:50
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rydiafan posted:1) Rolling over isn't getting up. ??? Go watch it, he gets up, he's kneeling over Oberyn. Upon rewatch he actually lifts Oberyn's entire body over him and to the other side, with one arm, then fully gets up onto his knees and speaks a few sentences with a popped lung and a giant hole in his chest. But yeah. Wizards and dragons. Makes it all really believable and well written 
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Jun 2, 2014 06:51
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Jack of Hearts posted:How in God's name has Sam managed to stay fat after all he's been through? And how do the Unsullied even work as soldiers, do they have testosterone replacement therapy in Essos? Maybe they just took the pillar and left the stones. Alternatively: a wizard did it the same one that did varys 
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