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Signal posted:I Signal oath six Strain dudes from Sedition Wars (in 28mm) lovely completion picture!  for Speed Painting. I'll have better pictures in time.
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Jun 2, 2014 06:32
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Fancy bases month? Time to break out this guy I guess: I hereby doth oath for ye olde month of June, one stately Dreadnought 
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Jun 2, 2014 08:14
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questions first, then to the Oaths!Lungboy posted:Another jurnal question: do otherwise empty bases count? I have 2 oval flying bases that fit the bill, but the flyers were going to be next month's oath. Can I do the bases (plus the minis i had planned) this month for the Jurnal? Rahotep75 posted:On another totally unrelated note, can I re-oath something that wasn't even painted or would that have to count as a Saving the Whales? Anything regarding Save Da Whales is a question for Leperflesh. If it's got no paint on it at all I would say you can re-oath it, but I'm not sure if that would clash with the Save Da Whales rules as they are now. BirdieBedtime posted:Gentlemen, a quick question: my standard priming method is black with an overhead spray of grey. If I'm reading the rules correctly, this makes the models ineligible to be oathed until they have a single-color basecoat, correct? Different colors of primer or basecoat are fine for different models (you seem some people doing this on models for different games). Diosamblet posted:The wiki article on How to Oath isn't much help on this either: I'll re-word this bit of the rules, I appreciate it's not worded correctly. However the How to Oath a Model (numbered) section says this, which is pretty clear: quote:2.3 assembled and ONE color of primer on any parts (if you use multiple shades of primer, this means a maximum of one color!) I zenithal prime everything I do, plus pre-shade, so I tend to oath just the bare plastic models. I'd like to see what the mood of the thread on this is, so... Attention! Here ye, here ye, a quorum of oathers has been called! As above, there's a question about zenithal priming (priming with black, grey and white before applying the base coat). The question is primarily for those of you who don't use this method, but anyone is welcome to have their say: - is zenithal priming fair to allow for oathed models? - as a follow-up, if we were to allow zenithal priming, what about single-color basecoats applied over the multi-tone primer? Would you be OK calling that a 'single color', even with the different color tones from the different primers underneath the base coat? (this is where we start to get into dangerous ground, because presently a part-primed and part-basecoated model is clearly NOT accepted) Let me know by replying in the thread so we can have an open discussion on this. I'm not a Roman emperor, the Oath Thread is open to bowing to the will of the people :P I've been intentionally leaving the single-color rule firmly in place the past 2 Oath Threads, even though it disadvantages me, mainly so it's fair to people without an airbrush setup or who paint models primed entirely in one color (I'm not going to call that the 'old-fashioned way'!). but I'm open to widening the rules here. krushgroove fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 09:17
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I think zenithal priming would be ok, as long as it's clearly just black/grey/white primer. I don't think colour on top of that would be ok, as to do that you've moved past priming and into painting.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:22
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Warboot posted:I Warboot Oath, 10 praetorian swordsmen, the 2 man unit attachment, And Tyrant Xerxis. Privateer Press ijyt posted:I, ijyt oath 20x Games Workshop Skaven Clanrats (28mm) for the month of June. Tadhg posted:Oh, Mt. ORourke posted:Let's keep the momentum going! quote:I Oath 1 Mule warjack and Ashlynn D'Elyss Dagon posted:Adding to my oath, one Reaper Bones IMEF marine: Ledgem posted:Oathing: Two Reaper Bones models, Privateer Press' Blessing of Vengeance and Monolith Bearer! JerryLee posted:
Asphyxious posted:I, Asphyxious, Oath 1 Tetto'Eko from Games Workshop for the Month of June YF19pilot posted:But, not to schlub off for the rest of the month, I will make an OATH ADDITION of one Battlefront/Flames of War artillery OP team (15mm) which has been glued onto one of Battlefront's custom bases just for this Jurnal (and not hastily done for my Italians in last night's battle). NTRabbit posted:I, NTRabbit, Oath to paint for June Season 5 Dr. Gargunza posted:I, Dr. Gargunza, oath to paint the following miniatures for the month of June: (1) Brienne of Tarth (Dark Sword Miniatures); and (3) heroes from Flying Frog Productions' Fortune & Glory board game: Jenny Butler, Grant Jackson, & Nigel Harrington! All are 28mm scale. Pic is thumbnailed to allow clicking to verify date & location. thiswayliesmadness posted:Fancy bases month? Time to break out this guy I guess: Accepted! you've all been Accepted!
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Jun 2, 2014 09:25
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this month is exactly what I've been hoping for!
I, Tadhg, Oath the Wood Elf Sisters of Twilight on Gwindalor for the month of June
I, JerryLee, oath to paint for the month of June: 
One Trojan Swordsman, two Basti Gamers, one Demigod of Hades, and one Bronze Owl
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Schmetterling posted:I think zenithal priming would be ok, as long as it's clearly just black/grey/white primer. I don't think colour on top of that would be ok, as to do that you've moved past priming and into painting. Gotcha - however, a primed & basecoated model has been accepted as an oath for a while now (at least the last couple of threads), extending that to a zenithal-primed and basecoated model could be argued to be OK by some. Just tossing that out there, I'm happy to see where the discussion goes. (I've updated my follow-up question above to reflect that part-primed, part-painted model is clearly not allowed in the rules)
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Jun 2, 2014 09:28
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Dr. Gargunza posted:I will take that challenge!!! Here is my quote:I don't even care about prizes, I just want these things done! quote:...Having said that, of course, will nine other oathers join me in this challenge? (Pretend I gave some big inspirational speech about the spirit of competition and backing each other's efforts here.)
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Jun 2, 2014 09:32
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krushgroove posted:Gotcha - however, a primed & basecoated model has been accepted as an oath for a while now (at least the last couple of threads), extending that to a zenithal-primed and basecoated model could be argued to be OK by some. Just tossing that out there, I'm happy to see where the discussion goes. (I've updated my follow-up question above to reflect that part-primed, part-painted model is clearly not allowed in the rules) If the whole thing is painted over in one colour then it should be fine. Primed and then base coated, if the whole thing gets the base coat. Otherwise it's picking and choosing which bits get which colour, which is what I was saying no to.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:32
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krushgroove posted:Yes! If you model up the bases, you've made a 'model', which can then be 'painted' as an 'Oath'. Because they'd be judged for this month, I'll have to remind the judges to specifically ignore the bases next month when you mount your flyers on the bases you paint this month. Savvy? This is handy to know, ta  Waiting on a few bits arriving in the post, as per, but also have some historicals I think I'm going to punt along up the painting queue for the sake of the journal.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:37
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I'd grandfather in zenithal priming up to and including this month, but then put in wording discouraging it in the future. "Zenithal priming" is a pretty loose concept; You could argue anything from a quick b&w prime job to fully painted Star Wars Stormtroopers. If someone is gaming this for advantage, the oath does not need to be accepted. The threat that it may be rejected should be enough to discourage anyone from gaming this permissiveness for advantage. Further, if anyone has a bunch of zenithal stuff already primed, why not allow showing it for immediate consideration? It wouldn't be a commitment or promise of future oathing, just an informal "Would these figures be accepted in the future?" with a binding accept or reject that can be quoted into any future oaths including those particular figures.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:57
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If you're about to prime models, you also have time to take a photo of them in bare plastic. Alternatively, there's also time to take a photo of them while you're waiting for the first coat of primer to dry. Mountains out of molehills. 
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Jun 2, 2014 10:30
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I, Lord Hypnostache, oath 10 Plague Zombies, a Daemon Prince and a Helbrute. All made from GW bits, except the Daemon Prince's base and bits in Helbrute's base by Secret Weapon Miniatures.
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Jun 2, 2014 11:12
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Dr. Gargunza posted:...Having said that, of course, will nine other oathers join me in this challenge? (Pretend I gave some big inspirational speech about the spirit of competition and backing each other's efforts here.)  ALTERNATE UNIVERSE OATH I, Lord Hypnostache, oath these 10 character models for Relic, made by Fantasy Flight Games. That's about one per month, should be doable, right?
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Jun 2, 2014 11:21
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ijyt posted:If you're about to prime models, you also have time to take a photo of them in bare plastic. This. To my knowledge, the intent of photos of bare/primed models way back when was to show that no work had been done on the model besides assembling it. The oath thread was always about getting people to paint their goony piles of unpainted models- usually bare plastic, but some people spray prime their models after assembly and just play with those. Either way, they're models with no actual artistic effort put into them yet. Once you start talking about zenith priming or picking out different parts with base colors or shading recesses with black air paint after priming white or whatever, you're working on the model in multiple steps. Step One should be to take your picture, Step Two+ is where color or contrast or your special homemade glaze or whatever starts to get added.
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Jun 2, 2014 11:27
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I got the impression dude had a ton of two-color primed stuff already.
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Jun 2, 2014 12:12
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Well obviously my question was a good one if it sparked so much discussion. For what it's worth, here is a quick shot of the models in question. I primed them before realizing 'oh yeah, oath thread!' If that's too much work done on them, if nothing else we've made the rules a bit clearer.
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Jun 2, 2014 12:25
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Maybe keep the rules as-is, but allow case-by-case basis judgement of whether the models of new oathers are suitable? That way, if they prime first then try to Oath they can get some leniency, but if they've read the rules or have oathed previously they can be expected to do single-colour.
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Jun 2, 2014 12:51
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I, Daedleh, Oath (most of) an Abyssal Dwarf army box set: 20 Immortal Guard, 9 Slave Orcs, 9 Gargoyles, 5 Abyssal Halfbreeds, 3 Obsidian Golems (one missing an arm). All made by Mantic, 28mm Fantasy.
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Jun 2, 2014 13:31
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I'm probably oathing Deadzone this month, which has some wonky bases that aren't the best for customizing (or I'm not imaginative enough). Do we need full on terrain adjustment on them or will a body part and a few shell casings do the trick?
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Jun 2, 2014 14:10
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Good discussion, folks, let's keep it going. I think the trend is going towards just clearing up the guidelines in the oathing rules, which are already there but could be highlighted better. But if anyone else has anything they'd like to add I'm all ears Lord Hypnostache posted:I, Lord Hypnostache, oath 10 Plague Zombies, a Daemon Prince and a Helbrute. All made from GW bits, except the Daemon Prince's base and bits in Helbrute's base by Secret Weapon Miniatures. Daedleh posted:I, Daedleh, Oath (most of) an Abyssal Dwarf army box set: 20 Immortal Guard, 9 Slave Orcs, 9 Gargoyles, 5 Abyssal Halfbreeds, 3 Obsidian Golems (one missing an arm). signalnoise posted:I'm probably oathing Deadzone this month, which has some wonky bases that aren't the best for customizing (or I'm not imaginative enough). Do we need full on terrain adjustment on them or will a body part and a few shell casings do the trick? Lord Hypnostache posted:Let's do this!
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Jun 2, 2014 14:15
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Daedleh posted:I, Daedleh, Oath (most of) an Abyssal Dwarf army box set: 20 Immortal Guard, 9 Slave Orcs, 9 Gargoyles, 5 Abyssal Halfbreeds, 3 Obsidian Golems (one missing an arm). Well, that's one way to get the golems to rank up - I'm using 2-slot trays sized for three from Warbases.
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Jun 2, 2014 14:46
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BirdieBedtime posted:Well obviously my question was a good one if it sparked so much discussion. For what it's worth, here is a quick shot of the models in question. I primed them before realizing 'oh yeah, oath thread!' If that's too much work done on them, if nothing else we've made the rules a bit clearer. Yeah, on the other hand zenithal priming is literally a zero-effort thing and a matter of preference. The only issue I'd see if someone oath'd a model like that, and then posted "Oath complete!" with barely any changes. Like, if you hadn't mentioned it was zenithal I'd have assumed the grey was bare plastic and that you were just really bad at priming.
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Jun 2, 2014 14:55
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I would say maybe grandfather the zenith all priming in. If that's the case post a mega pic time stamped and listed of everything already primed as such. Those are allowed as oaths til finished for anyone who has that done already. Anyone after the rules clarification is finalized and bolded is out of luck. I am not good at this painting thing, but I understand that time is valuable and even though I single color prime, I prime way more than I intend on painting that month so that I can mitigate real life time contraints/a week of rain.
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Jun 2, 2014 15:35
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The talk of grandfathering in zenithal-primed models implies that there have been models with zenithal priming that have been accepted - have I slipped up and allowed some in that have more than one color? If so, any confusion is entirely my fault, as even last year zenithal priming was expressly not allowed. But I'm in the same boat as waah with the primed models way ahead of time. I have at least 7 or 8 Tyranid monstrous creatures, all zenithal primed and waiting for paint, but I can't oath them. So I'm oathing my smaller models instead and will start painting the MCs as a separate 'project', no biggie. I suppose it comes down to whatever habit or process we have for building and painting models. I batch paint as much as possible and only recently started doing vehicles and monstrous creatures, so I've got many models primed way ahead of time (I try to do standard brushwork while I watch TV!). Part of me would like to have to rules say 'only bare plastic/metal models can be oathed' but I don't think that would be very friendly for many of the painters here, so I left it the same as last year.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:32
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I, Lungboy, oath to paint the following for the month of June: A: Chapter Master on Scimitar Jetbike B: DV Bike C: Marine with Meltagun D: Marine with Multimelta E: 4 AoBR Marines F: 2 large oval bases 
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Jun 2, 2014 17:01
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Lungboy posted:I, Lungboy, oath to paint the following for the month of June: IS THAT ZENITHA- oh no it's just the reflection. Carry on, then. Accepted!
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Jun 2, 2014 17:04
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I'm fine either way regarding the decision to include or not include zenithal priming. The only thing I ask is that if we allow it, people call out that it's already been zenithal primed in their original Oath post. Obviously we'd take issue (on judging if nothing else) if someone really phoned it in with the subsequent paint job, but it does make sense to me that someone would have large amounts of pre-primed figures if they were trying to do some batch processing on their end. Off topic, FYI to the thread - I'm behind on getting some entries into the spreadsheet for folks who finished their May Oaths.  It's largely me getting used to my new job and certainly not at all that we did a marathon of the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game this weekend  . My goal is to get that entered in tonight!
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Jun 2, 2014 17:04
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I'd say if someone had a ton of models that have been zenithally primed, they should just save them for amnesty month.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:39
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I think I'll just keep everybody happy and oath my originally planned, basecoated model. Speaking of, I, BirdieBedtime Oath to paint the following Penitent Servitor (GW Bits) for the month of June!  That is seriously the fifth picture I took, I don't know why my phone refused to focus on anything but the base. Maybe it's drunk on the fumes of multiple cans of primer...
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Jun 2, 2014 18:03
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Here's my opinion. But I want to preface it by reminding folks that I am not a rule-maker this year, and I demand that my opinion be given no more weight than anyone else's. I think we allow primed models. The custom when I was a teenager was to physically paint diluted GW Skull White onto your figures. Then in the 90s people figured out spray paint exists and started priming things by spraying them with a thick goopy coat of black spray paint, possibly a $15 can from GW. At least that's what I surmise from the eBay stuff I've gotten that has had all details obliterated by a mm-thick coat of latex. Some people primed with white still, and some of us picked a middle-ground gray. Nowadays, people often prime using good-quality white/grey/black primer or even solid colors, depending on what the final model's dominant color will be, sprayed from cans or from an airbrush. This is where the oath thread rules have come from - you can spray down your Angry Marines with a bright yellow primer and that's OK. We've referred to that as a "base coat" and said one color base coat is OK, too, but I think the terminology may be somewhat hazy about where exactly a primer job ends and a base coat begins. Priming two-tone using a zenithal technique has lately become a common way to make the task of highlighting and shading a model later in the process much easier. I'm inclined to say that a model that has black/grey/white tones, clearly produced entirely through this simple but effective priming technique, is still just a primed model. And the reason to allow someone to oath such models is not only because folks often do it as a big batch after batch-assembling their kits... it's also because it takes approximately the same amount of effort as a non-zenithal single-tone priming job. E.g., if I take a tray of models out to the patio and hose them down with rattlecan grey, I have to turn them in all directions and spray from above and below and back and front just to get an even coat. On the other hand if I switch between my black and my white cans while doing that, I can get a zenithal prime job with basically the same time and effort expended. I don't personally zenithally-prime, although I've thought of trying it out at some point. I also don't tend to pre-assemble and pre-prime big lots of models, although I do have a few that are already (flat grey) primed. I think we can be sympathetic to newcomers to the thread who have 100 models built and zenithally primed... it would suck for them if they can't oath any of those models. We especially shouldn't get into a situation where someone is deliberately stripping models like that, just to qualify to oath them, so they can go prime them a second time. Of course, that principle has limits. I have a batch of tomb guard I started painting a couple years ago, they have two base colors in addition to colored primer on them. They're too far along to ever oath, so I just need to paint them on my own time. Not being able to oath something hardly means you cannot ever paint it. So it's not that huge of a deal. But I have hundreds and hundreds of unpainted minis to choose from. I wouldn't want someone who only has a small collection to find his entire collection excluded because he was efficient about assembly and zenithally-primed them last October and now they're all disqualified. Regardless of the ruling, I think everyone should feel comfortable just posting photos of something in the thread and saying "would this be a valid oath?" I know the people in charge well enough to say with confidence they'd never be annoyed with something like that and will give their reasoning for their answers either way. Rahotep75 posted:On another totally unrelated note, can I re-oath something that wasn't even painted or would that have to count as a Saving the Whales? You can always Whales a failed oath from this year. However, Whalseing only qualifies you for the whales prize - you don't get points and you can't win the affections of a judge. So if you haven't even started painting something at all, you might prefer to re-oath it! If you re-oath and complete it as a regular oath, you cannot also Whales it. No double-dipping! The spirit of the Whales contest is to encourage folks to finish their minis from a failed oath. The first year I participated in an Oath thread, I failed several, and found myself never going back to finish those models - I was oathing something new the following month and focusing on that instead. So this is a little incentive to "rescue" those oaths. It also provides a sense of amnesty and forgiveness. And of course it's an excuse for me to give away some of my oldest, most abandoned miniatures... near-forgotten relics of an earlier time, when miniatures were made of mostly lead, their faces little blobs of nearly no detail, and sold in printed catalogs we poured through as kids, wondering whether the hand-drawn depiction on those careworn pages would actually bear any resemblance to the miniature or if we would be sorely disappointed with what came in the mail. And then we slopped on a horrifying patchwork of Testors model airplane paint in base colors with the bare metal showing through between them and called it a day. Sorry, I got a little lost there. Anyway yeah you can pick either one, re-oath or Whales, but not both.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:18
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Before we start talking about guys with a backlog of 100 zenithally-primed models, I should mention that when I said something like "a bunch" I meant eight or so. I'm glad we're having a conversation about it, but as far as the implementation of the rules in this instance, it's no skin off my back if I can't Oath those eight models - lord knows there will be many more that I can Oath before priming!
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Jun 2, 2014 18:24
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I think zenithal priming could be allowed for basically the reason Leperflesh laid out--it's still just a spray prime job. If anything, a zenithally primed model is farther from its finished appearance than the example of colored primer, which we do allow. If someone is using an airbrush to start picking out individual details on a model and calling it zenithal priming, it should be disqualified, but I think it should be reasonably obvious when that happens.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:44
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Ok, for my first ever oath I'm going to start at the oldest models in the backlog so: I, headlor, oath that I will paint one Escher Ganger, and one Escher Juve (Necromunda, GW, 28mm) for the month of June.  They already have non-standard bases made out of some old textured plastic stuff, does that count for the jurnal?
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Jun 2, 2014 19:27
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If the alternate universe thing is what I think it is(paint all the pieces from a single boardgame) then I would be down to oath my Castle Ravenloft stuff. If it's something else... I'm still probably down.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:22
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It's a thing we did last year. Basically you make a yearlong oath as a companion oath separate from your monthly oath. So you oath some stuff and paint it before the end of the oath thread, which will be next May 31st. It could be a whole boardgame or it could be just one guy, but the intent I guess is to recognize that some painting projects are just not convenient to fit into a single month, but still fun to put into the Oath Thread format. However, last year very few people participated and a few people mentioned it seemed like an unnecessary complexity added to an already complex set of rules, so for this year I guess the decision was to drop it due to lack of interest. Krushgroove's bounty offer may serve to entice a few more participants.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:36
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jodai posted:If the alternate universe thing is what I think it is(paint all the pieces from a single boardgame) then I would be down to oath my Castle Ravenloft stuff. If it's something else... I'm still probably down. It's not quite that, but it doesn't seem to have an entry on the wiki so I'll leave it to Krushgroove to explain.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:36
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Oathing one Reaper Bones  Base is going to be of my own creation from a plywood starter, and I'm going to try to model it melting its way out of icy ground - these things are supposed to tunnel by melting using internal heat  . I might put a counter on this one, too, though I'm not quite sure what for as it's not gonna be flying or losing heads.I have a better shot of the date if needed.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:41
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I, muskets, hereby oath to paint these six Infinity minis (an Ariadna starterbox), 28mm, by Corvus Belli, in the month of June. These bases aren't staying - I foolishly glued them to the bases before I knew what the theme was.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:59
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Here's a picture of the zenithal primed models I was hoping to Oath (the four in the back). They've been that way for like, a year. (Sevvy there has been primed white for almost a decade) Honestly, I'm not even sure I thin my paints enough for the pre-shading part to work out - I just find it helps me get a better feel for the model and view of the details.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:35
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Diosamblet posted:Here's a picture of the zenithal primed models I was hoping to Oath (the four in the back). They've been that way for like, a year. (Sevvy there has been primed white for almost a decade) If they look like that, I can see giving a pass. It just looks like a single, maybe two passes with a spray, not really any kind of actual detailed painting going into the model yet. Like, the arms aren't primed a completely different color from the rest of the model. I, as a terrible painter, would be okay with that.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:44
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