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Just finished reading through this thread. My impressions: WickedHate is a walking example of Poe's Law, anybody who's in it for the creepy incest thing should just watch No Game No Life instead (which a) is at least guaranteed to never have the sister's creepy feelings for her brother reciprocated and b) is an infinitely better show in every other regard, to the point of being an actually good show that just has a few unfortunate bits), and this author makes Reki Kawahara look like a loving genius. Seriously, Mahouka sounds like it might as well be called "what if Tom Kratman wrote an anime".
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Jun 2, 2014 04:07
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The Sandman posted:Just finished reading through this thread. My impressions: WickedHate is a walking example of Poe's Law, anybody who's in it for the creepy incest thing should just watch No Game No Life instead (which a) is at least guaranteed to never have the sister's creepy feelings for her brother reciprocated and b) is an infinitely better show in every other regard, to the point of being an actually good show that just has a few unfortunate bits) A is unfounded and B is a good description of Mahouka. It's also kind of hypocritical how Mahouka gets the incest in it's thread title but goons liked NGNL so it's incest was brushed off.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:11
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yeah let's be fair here No Game No Life is equally terrible.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:14
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WickedHate posted:A is unfounded and B is a good description of Mahouka. And the NGNL thread got gassed because goons couldn't brush it off. Mainly because, as a terrible thing weighing down a decent show, the incest-y bits of NGNL are far more objectionable than throwing one more thing onto the pile of reasons why Mahouka is garbage and anybody who likes it as something other than an exercise in masochism has objectively poo poo taste. Cake Attack posted:yeah let's be fair here No Game No Life has some incredibly creepy fanservice that gets in the way of enjoying a story that's kind of like... hmm, Death Note during the good half, maybe? I can't think of any other shows that are good examples of "you know the protagonists are going to win, but how they win is inventive enough that it's interesting to watch" off the top of my head, although I'm sure there are a few. And plenty of examples of how to do that in a terrible fashion, of course. But the thing is, if you were to go in and pare off the bits of NGNL that cater to the worst otaku fetishes, there's still at least an okay story and okay characters. Once you remove the terrible bits of Mahouka, you're left with, what, one or two action scenes? Maybe?
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Jun 2, 2014 04:28
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It sounds like you just came to this thread to justify liking a harem show where the sister option was eleven. You, yourself, are doing the "but it's still not a bad show aside from the creepy stuff" thing, like everyone else in that thread was and now you're trying to argue that by proxy with "at least it's better then [show no one but WickedHate likes]".
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 04:37
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WickedHate posted:It sounds like you just came to this thread to justify liking a harem show where the sister option was eleven. You, yourself, are doing the "but it's still not a bad show aside from the creepy stuff" thing, like everyone else in that thread was. No, I came to this thread to mock both you and this show. Raising an example of a show that does everything this show does while (unlike this show) having redeeming features was just a bonus. Also, if I was trying to justify liking a harem show where the sister option was eleven, I wouldn't be trying to justify liking NGNL (which is a sports/gaming show first and a harem show kinda off to the side, maybe, if any putative romance was a plot point). I'd be trying to justify liking To-Love-Ru. I'm pretty sure that's not a thing that's possible. Although who knows, maybe you could try it. If you like Mahouka, To-Love-Ru is kind of a step up in quality.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:47
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WickedHate, stop deluding yourself in trying to justify how good it is. The only way it can be good is how good someone can make fun of it, and that's only because how terrible it is. In between "justified" human experimentation, Nihon-wanking, xenophobia, and incest fanservice, there is really little going on for it that can't be gotten elsewhere and in better qualities. I'd rather watch Chrome Shelled Regios, and that's a terrible show by my standards. In fact, I'd say the only reason it got published at all and then later turned into an anime is the same reason Gate - Thus the JSDF Fought There got published: shameless nationalism pandering.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:50
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jwang posted:WickedHate, stop deluding yourself in trying to justify how good it is. The only way it can be good is how good someone can make fun of it, and that's only because how terrible it is. In between "justified" human experimentation, Nihon-wanking, xenophobia, and incest fanservice, there is really little going on for it that can't be gotten elsewhere and in better qualities. Aside from the incest none of that is actually in the show. The experimenters are evil and having other governments as bad guys doesn't equal xenophobia or nationalism.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:53
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I wish I lived your world mate. I guess it requires a certain event in the LN I've heard about to be shown in the anime to actually convince you of the nationalistic aspects
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Jun 2, 2014 05:26
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boredsatellite posted:I wish I lived your world mate. I guess it requires a certain event in the LN I've heard about to be shown in the anime to actually convince you of the nationalistic aspects Killing soldiers of an enemy nation doesn't count either.
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Jun 2, 2014 05:43
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And why are they the enemy. Think carefully about this answer, for it may surprise you.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:36
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Phobophilia posted:Think Ha, good one.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:38
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Phobophilia posted:And why are they the enemy. Think carefully about this answer, for it may surprise you. Because it's convenient. There doesn't have to be any racial or xenophobic elements to it.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:46
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Phobophilia posted:And why are they the enemy. Think carefully about this answer, for it may surprise you.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:49
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No you dumbshit there is a ton of political and economic tension over a bunch of nationalists dickwaving at one another and lots of unresolved history from some horrendous war crimes within living memory. And like Russia, China can be used as a homogenous dehumanised horde of enemies for the heroes to vanquish.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:51
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I recently watched Code Geass go full retard and even that loving show had some clever elements and unexpected role reversals under its nationalistic exterior.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:52
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Phobophilia posted:No you dumbshit there is a ton of political and economic tension over a bunch of nationalists dickwaving at one another and lots of unresolved history from some horrendous war crimes within living memory. quote:And like Russia, China can be used as a homogenous dehumanised horde of enemies for the heroes to vanquish. I mean, the series is most likely going to handle things poorly, but you can't just say the show has Chinese antagonists and claim your work is done.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:26
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From what I understand, the MC's family--who are presented as morally grey---are quasi-exculpated by the story because the MC's aunt was raped by Chinese kidnappers, so you see it was terrible but justified vengeance when they had their hosed up mutant son go massacre thousands of the continentals.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:35
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Harime Nui posted:From what I understand, the MC's family--who are presented as morally grey---are quasi-exculpated by the story because the MC's aunt was raped by Chinese kidnappers, so you see it was terrible but justified vengeance when they had their hosed up mutant son go massacre thousands of the continentals. (A) Did Tatsuya murder civilians or was it a fight against an evil army? Key difference. (B) I'm really not getting morally gray out of the depiction of Tatsuya and Miyuki's family. They seem totally evil.
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Jun 2, 2014 09:45
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The Yotsuba are pretty much presented as evil. They're not really morally grey. I mean Gary Stu's dad got forced by them to marry his hosed up mother and have babies because ~mage genetics sperg~. They have cloned child soldiers/assassins. When Aunty got kidnapped and raped by the Chinese they proceeded to get revenge by murdering almost anyone in a lab coat in China. Them treating Gary Stu like poo poo for ~mage genetics sperg~ reasons is pretty much just the poo poo topping on top of a pile of poo poo. Also he blew up a few thousand people and/or disintegrated them because some (mixed race) Japanese soldiers betrayed Japan for China and killed his mother and almost his sister so it was time to murder all the Chinese invaders. Edit: He gets around to murdering non-soldiers later. Such as: Chinese Triads and human victims of the Chinese Triads who have been turned into humanoid weapons. They too were probably Chinese at some point. SorcerousHam fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 11:05
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So I have to do like 2 and a half hours of bus travel a day nowadays, and what better way to pass that time than with a good book. Unfortunately I've been reading mahouka volume 3 instead... In story order of things I hate quote:Yet, the reason why Leo and Mikihiko were unable to utter a single word wasn't because they were struck speechless by Erika barging in without any consideration to others. Their widened eyes clearly testified to this point. quote:"Eh, is it okay if I take a look?" quote:After the siblings shared their customary dinner together, the telephone picked this precise moment to start ringing. Following this, Miyuki gets turned on at the thought of making onii-sama tea late at night... quote:There's no need to repeat this, but Miyuki was the publicly acknowledged honor student. quote:Miyuki swiftly glanced downwards, then swallowed hard. E: It's not so much the fact he's invented flight that bothers me, it's the fact that he did it then waited in that pose for miyuki to bring him tea. Namtab fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 20:30
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So, is this better or worse than all the stuff from  that you suffered through in days of yore? 
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Jun 2, 2014 22:29
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Mahouka is the top show of the season.  website.SorcerousHam posted:
This sounds fine? One is a ruthless criminal organization and the others there probably isn't a choice in and it's mercy kills. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 22:33
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You do realize that a lot of people having poo poo taste does not make their taste any less poo poo, right? It just means that you're not a uniquely terrible individual. There are many others, much like you. Except more Japanese. And male. And probably older. So not much like you, actually. Your relation to this show is kind of like a Twilight fan's relationship to their chosen excretion, isn't it? Where girls inexplicably like a work of fiction that depicts all its female characters as little better than vapid cheerleaders for the boring invincible protagonist, when they're not kidnapping bait? ...or is it more like female fans of Gor?
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Jun 2, 2014 22:48
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The Sandman posted:You do realize that a lot of people having poo poo taste does not make their taste any less poo poo, right? I'm Japanese-American, it's one of the top ranking anime of both genders, and I was just posting that because it's relevant to the thread, not as an argument.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:55
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WickedHate posted:Because it's convenient. There doesn't have to be any racial or xenophobic elements to it. Okay, think of the following situation (one where it's actually completely logical to do a Godwin, since the Chinese are quite literally to Japan what Jews are to Germany; like, it's literally not even an exaggeration here): Germany creates show where Israel is the antagonist country. Israel has manipulated Jews and Jew sympathizers within Germany into committing acts of terrorism. Fortunately Germany has access to powerful modern technology with which they can fight the hordes of primitive Jews. Context matters. It isn't the same as just any random country being chosen as an antagonist; this is a country which, within living memory, suffered terrible atrocities at the hands of Japan. Atrocities that many prominent Japanese politicians continue to downplay or even deny. It is incredibly hosed up for a Japanese citizen to write fiction portraying China as a more or less morally black/white enemy. From what we've seen so far, China is pretty much completely evil and Japan is unambiguously morally (and apparently technologically) superior to them, even if there might be some actors within Japan that are bad. It's also actually pretty fascist; China is portrayed as being both a great threat and inferior to them technologically (which sort of implies that they're also less intelligent). edit: The funny thing is that my analogy is actually a little generous. Germany actually does probably have the moral high ground over Israel in the present day, and - unlike Japan - they have made extensive "denazification" efforts, to the extent where it's a criminal act to deny the Holocaust. Despite this, it would still be incredibly insensitive and awful if a German person created fiction demonizing Israelis.
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Jun 2, 2014 23:33
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WickedHate posted:I'm Japanese-American. Yeah, like that gives you the moral high ground. And explains quite a bit. Either that or you're a very elaborate troll. And while we're chipping away at your identity, did your family emigrate to the United States before or after World War II? If the former, did they face persecution or sent to an internment camp during the war? What are your thoughts on the Nanjing Massacre? The Bataan Death March? The Alexandra Hospital massacre? And don't think that because I'm Chinese American I ignore and hand waved the corruption of the Qing Dynasty, the Nationalists mishandling of World War II, the purges of Communist China, and various other dark moments in Chinese history. Frankly, I'm ashamed of various parts of American history as well. And Ytlaya's post more or less falls in line with my feelings on how this light novel and anime are portraying its antagonists. What the author has done here is tasteless, disrespectful, and highlights his poor ability to write in general; let alone write realistic, interesting, and multidimensional antagonists in a world and story that is meant to be taken seriously assuming that that was his intention. That isn't to say you should stop with these discussions because this is just so entertaining. And you seriously linked an article from Sankaku Complex? Troll or not, you're entertaining all right.  It's too bad that so many other people are eating this poo poo up.  Are they (at least the non-Japanese viewers) even aware of the thinly veiled nationalism and anti-Chinese rhetoric? Not that it matters because either answer would just piss me off and lower my faith in humanity in general. Edward IV fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:01
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Now I know what's bugging me about this anime, The protagonist never actually struggles. He just jokingly expresses power at the drop of a hat making him godlike. Even in Code Geass where lelouch is probably the smartest guy around he runs into walls or situations that tax him and make it seem like he has trouble. Toaru where Toma has the most OP power still has a weakness of getting shot or making mistakes. If Tatsuya actually had to struggle against something or a proper weakness it would get on much better.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:02
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Edward IV posted:Yeah, like that gives you the moral high ground. Edward IV posted:And don't think that because I'm Chinese American I ignore and hand waved the corruption of the Qing Dynasty, the Nationalists mishandling of World War II, the purges of Communist China, and various other dark moments in Chinese history. Frankly, I'm ashamed of various parts of American history as well. I'm not dismissing war crimes or ignoring they happened. There's just no reason to think that has anything to do with China being the bad guy. It's like saying having a black villain oppose white protagonists in Western media is automatically racist because of slavery. Chillyrabbit posted:Now I know what's bugging me about this anime, The protagonist never actually struggles. He just jokingly expresses power at the drop of a hat making him godlike.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:09
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Chillyrabbit posted:Now I know what's bugging me about this anime, The protagonist never actually struggles. He just jokingly expresses power at the drop of a hat making him godlike. The first arc, which lasted 7 episodes, culminated in fighting a villain who could do nothing against the protagonist. He's immune to all his magic and the "good guys" beat up him and dismember him and he can't do a single thing about it. It's like watching a professional boxer seriously fighting a child. Roughly 2.5ish hours, all for that. It's p funny to me that this power fantasy spent a lot of time building up to what came across to me as one heck of a bullying incident since heck, they appeared to take some glee in lopping that dude's arm off.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:11
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WickedHate posted:There's just no reason to think that has anything to do with China being the bad guy. It's like saying having a black villain oppose white protagonists in Western media is automatically racist because of slavery. Actually, it is in fact racist as all poo poo when a movie has white protagonists against a bunch of black antagonists. Again, this isn't because there might not be a situation like that in real life; it's because someone decided for that to be part of the plot of a movie created in the context of our history and society. (Then when you add in the whole "mixed race people sympathizing with/assisting the antagonist" things get even uglier!) edit: For what it's worth, I don't think that you're a bad person or hold any actively racist beliefs. I don't even think that you're dumb or anything. I think that you're just sort of young and naive (I think you said you just graduated high school), and most of the other people who post on this forum are in their twenties or older. I mean, you were literally like 9 years old when I registered on this forum (and I think I was 19 when I registered). This is also probably why this show's ratings are so drastically different from the response it's getting in this thread (well, that and Japanese people being more receptive to the nationalism). Most people who watch the show are probably high school to college age, while most people on this forum are older (and this forum also does a good job of filtering out really terrible people). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:19
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Ytlaya posted:Actually, it is in fact racist as all poo poo when a movie has white protagonists against a bunch of black antagonists. I didn't say "a bunch of". You might as well be saying the Daredevil movie is racist.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:27
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WickedHate posted:I didn't say "a bunch of". You might as well be saying the Daredevil movie is racist. You didn't say a bunch of, but in this show it is "a bunch of." I was just correcting your analogy.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:31
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Ytlaya posted:You didn't say a bunch of, but in this show it is "a bunch of." I was just correcting your analogy. The bad guys are the government of a largely homogeneous nation, what are you expecting? There actually are Japanese villains too anyway, because so far in the show that's all there's been, plus Tatsuya and Miyuki's family.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:33
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WickedHate posted:It's the government of a largely homogeneous nation. Governments consist of a bunch of people. To make the analogy better, it would be like America being the protagonist and Nigeria being the antagonist, but where black Americans are traitors who assist Nigeria and no black people are really portrayed in a positive light (though even if a token few were it would still be pretty bad). The existence of some bad Japanese doesn't make a show immune from possibly having nationalist or racist themes. Even if you ignore anything pertaining to race, what I was saying about the whole "Japan as a protagonist against an evil China" setting being extremely insensitive at best and downright fascist at worst still applies. It was the author's choice to have this story take place in the the "real world" (in the sense that the same countries exist and same history took place). It also happens to be the case that right wing Japanese politicians use China as an excuse to try and loosen the restrictions on Japan being able to maintain an offensive military, so "China is the bad guy" stories written in Japan automatically take on a pretty right-wing slant. It's like those American writers who write thrillers about badass Americans marines fighting evil middle eastern terrorists (except those will at least usually include some token "good arabs"). That sort of plot is pretty much inherently right-wing. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:37
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Ytlaya posted:Governments consist of a bunch of people. To make the analogy better, it would be like America being the protagonist and Nigeria being the antagonist, but where black Americans are traitors who assist Nigeria and no black people are really portrayed in a positive light (though even if a token few were it would still be pretty bad). America and Nigeria don't have a real life antagonistic relationship and Nigeria isn't a superpower in a position to threaten America if it wanted, there would be white villains both working with Nigeria and not.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:40
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WickedHate posted:America and Nigeria don't have a real life antagonistic relationship and Nigeria isn't a superpower in a position to threaten America if it wanted, there would be white villains both working with Nigeria and not. And there also isn't a history of America committing terrible military atrocities in Nigeria. One of these things (Japan committing atrocities against the Chinese) actually happened, while the other is something right-wing Japanese politicians use as an excuse to try and increase the size of Japan's military. No one who isn't either really ignorant or a right-wing shill honestly thinks China is going to take any military action against Japan. An American movie (or game, like the Battlefield 4 campaign) where America goes to war against China would also be jingoist and right-wing, though at least America doesn't have a history of murdering millions of Chinese people.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:02
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That's an  images in this article.Jesus Christ Japan.  Personal_Nirvana fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 03:07
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Edward IV posted:Yeah, like that gives you the moral high ground. And explains quite a bit. Either that or you're a very elaborate troll. Don't forget Unit 731 as well. Like the past history between Japan and China would make this anime insensitive at the least and loving nationalistic and xenophobic at the worst. I still don't get how someone doesn't see this as insensitive
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Jun 3, 2014 03:38
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boredsatellite posted:Don't forget Unit 731 as well. The show says that the chinese are bad guys, so obviously that is true. Interpreting a work of fiction further than repeating the lines verbatim just means you are trying too hard.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:43
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