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Hypation posted:The only substantive power a retail worker has is the ability to quit and go somewhere else. No, the substantive power a retail worker has is the collective withholding of labour. That's what underpins our industrial relations system and is, in fact, why we have penalty rates.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 03:57 |
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# ? Jun 12, 2024 04:22 |
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-03/volunteer-force-could-supplement-victoria-police-under-proposal/5496410quote:Victoria Police may introduce volunteer officers to "extend the effectiveness" of the force in times of serious budget constraints, according to a reform blue paper.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 03:58 |
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lol at all this nonsense about penalty rates. The workers should cooperatively control the businesses that exploit their labour, you profit-stealing capitalist shills. The next time I read that an employer is doing society a service by employing people, I'll probably projectile vomit onto the moon. I'm thinking I should get a badge that says "Ask me about the Means of Production" to go with my soy latte. Opinions, tia.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 03:59 |
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Captain Pissweak posted:Just so I'm clear here, your point is "the system works"? The system works provided the penalty rate is the fair value of the choice not to work weekends and promotes the workforce flexibility needed to reduce the value of that choice to workers to near zero. Senor Tron posted:Yeah I'm not following your argument. It reads like you're saying that people working Mon-Fri should get paid less than those who work weekends, but those who work weekends shouldn't earn more than those who work Mon-Fri? Currently as it stands, many people currently prefer to work Mon to Fri during the day. As a result the weekend workers should be paid more for working on weekends. In the ideal case you would have a flexible pool of labour with some willing to work on all days of the week so there would be no need for penalty rates. open24hours posted:Hey guys, the government abolished penalty rates so you're all getting a raise to make up for it! - A Business Owner. If you were the ACTU negotiating new awards and AWAs with no penalty rates is this not the trade you would make? Edit: Quantum Mechanic posted:No, the substantive power a retail worker has is the collective withholding of labour. That's what underpins our industrial relations system and is, in fact, why we have penalty rates. No. Retail workers do not have that power. Individual workers cannot dictate when their fellow workers will strike. Hypation fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 3, 2014 |
# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:04 |
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That undeclared $200,000 donation was Grundy and it may have dropped Loughnane into it:quote:Mystery Liberal donation: Reg Grundy gave $200,000 via secretive foundation
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:04 |
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Hypation posted:(Surprisingly you might say) I am in favour of a basic income. It is a less complex and more efficient way of providing welfare. Well this is good to hear, at least. I want to believe that more conservatives can eventually come around to agree, since it would shift the burden of welfare to be more distributed across the whole country. As opposed to putting the burden for people's living wage onto individual business owners, who may legitimately be doing it tough. It would also simplify internet arguments, since telling people they should just go find a different job if they don't like X may actually become a feasible option to casually toss around.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:05 |
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Hypation posted:If you were the ACTU negotiating new awards and AWAs with no penalty rates is this not the trade you would make? Absolutely not. If you give up benefits like that and you will never get them back.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:05 |
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SynthOrange posted:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-03/volunteer-force-could-supplement-victoria-police-under-proposal/5496410 Who would volunteer to be a cop
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:08 |
Amethyst posted:Who would volunteer to be a cop The kind of people who shouldn't be cops
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:14 |
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Pretty late on it but I'll be hosed if I'm reading what I am reliably informed is page upon page of Hypation making GBS threads out of his mouth. Abbott turning D-Day into a carbon tax stump speech actually makes sense. At this point there is no-one who has the capacity to be appalled by Abbott's lack of tact who is not already so. He can't piss anyone else off about it so what effect did it have? It got his "Australia is open for business" line into the press again. Having the claim repeated enough is an important part of getting people to believe it. At this point Abbott could go up to Thredbo and piss "Open For Business" in the snow at the memorial and it would be a good media move.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:15 |
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Exactly the sort of nutbar who shouldnt be one, even temporarily, and especially without expensive training and pay incentives
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:16 |
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Amethyst posted:Who would volunteer to be a cop The worst kind of people E: Beaten with phonebooks and battons
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:16 |
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Haters Objector posted:The kind of people who shouldn't be cops Exactly
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:17 |
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Gough Suppressant posted:Abbott turning D-Day into a carbon tax stump speech actually makes sense. This happened? What kind of crazy rhetorical acrobatics were involved in twisting D-Day into being about axing the carbon tax?
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:17 |
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Endman posted:This happened? yeah, Hitler was pushing like mad for a final solution to the carbon problem and was conquering Europe to enforce a carbon price.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:20 |
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Hypation posted:No its not - the issues are separate. The issues of overtime and weekend work are separate, sure, but surely they stem from the same accepted norms - formalised as whatever form of law covers them. It's the same argument for public holidays as discussed. I do agree that it is a matter of convenience, and as such you should be compensated for the inconvenience of working on the weekend. It doesn't have to do with your 'busy schedule' (you should still only be working so many hours), it's to do with the requested schedule impacting on your quality of life. Framing it as the employee 'picking which days to work' is somewhat naive, very few jobs (if any) give you the flexibility to go 'I think I'll work Saturday this week for the extra pay'. It's either accepted that someone needs to work on the weekend and it's a roster , or no one does. As for the cafe owner being supported by the employee, no. If anything I agree that it is the other way around, the owner takes the risk and 'supports' the employee with wages. This is a fairly weaselly way of putting it though. In a small town there's only so many coffees to sell, my point is that the if you risk opening a business in a saturated market then you shouldn't be complaining that industrial rights are hamstringing you when it was a bad idea to start with. If the market is healthy then surely the extra demand on weekends covers the extra wages? e: ugghhh, don't leave reply windows open :facepalm: Hypation posted:The system works provided the penalty rate is the fair value of the choice not to work weekends and promotes the workforce flexibility needed to reduce the value of that choice to workers to near zero. Excuse my poor non-business tertiary education, but are you saying 'The system works if it eventually nullifies any extra pay for working weekends'? I realise it's coached as an open-market ideal about every day being the same, but that's not the society we live in. From what I'm reading you've written 'the system works if it overcomes anything of cultural value in order to make labor as predictable and manageable as possible for employers and the free market, gently caress everything else'. Pidgin Englishman fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 3, 2014 |
# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:23 |
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Endman posted:This happened? Yup.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:24 |
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Endman posted:This happened?
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:25 |
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SynthOrange posted:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-03/volunteer-force-could-supplement-victoria-police-under-proposal/5496410 Worked pretty well in the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WuRa1F37tc
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:26 |
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Endman posted:This happened? It was more of a basic somersault than acrobatics. It was pretty much just: I. Today's the anniversary of D-Day II. Some completely unrelated stuff about carbon tax III. I'm saying this to some other countries which are also remembering stuff about D-Day, thus in conclusion, I have proven they are totally connected, the end. Then he increased the margins on the page and made the font really big and triple-spaced everything hoping the teacher would still give him full credit.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:28 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:28 |
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ewe2 posted:He's an evil chicken, if he doesn't get human blood once a day he melts. It's anecdotal, and I'm in no way in favour of WFTD programmes, but I have a friend who suffered severe anxiety and depression, bordering on agoraphobia. Getting him to get on Centrelink, then Centrelink eventually putting him in a position chucking boxes out the back of a Salvos store, actually turned his life around a fair bit. He lost ~50 kilos, met a nice girl, did some courses at TAFE and now, with his new positive attitude, really wants to work (it's too bad he's got a gap of ten years on his resume and still suffers from a bit of social anxiety). In terms of getting him into work, it's not really great. But, in terms of helping him get well, it's doing a pretty good job.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 04:42 |
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Goffer posted:Worked pretty well in the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WuRa1F37tc Thought it would be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29XHh2rdVxk
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:01 |
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Those On My Beet posted:It's not iwc. I'm not convinced.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:14 |
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DE-FAULT *CLAP CLAP CLAP* DE-FAULT *CLAP CLAP CLAP*quote:Australia's emissions cut target triples overnight thanks to failure to repeal carbon tax The devils in the details, though Tony and his ilk never seem to read the things in the first place so the devils in the book I guess.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:29 |
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Preferred leader of the libs: Turnbull 31% Abbott 18% "Someone Else" 19% ...someone else! Someone else! Someone else! Someone else! Someone else!
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:36 |
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Sisgmund posted:Preferred leader of the libs: I'M SOMEONE ELSE!
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:38 |
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Those On My Beet posted:It's not iwc. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:38 |
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SynthOrange posted:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-03/volunteer-force-could-supplement-victoria-police-under-proposal/5496410 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYxkZ9jTvk
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:38 |
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Hypation posted:The system works provided the penalty rate is the fair value of the choice not to work weekends and promotes the workforce flexibility needed to reduce the value of that choice to workers to near zero. It is, or it wouldn't have been bargained~ Hypation posted:No. Retail workers do not have that power. Individual workers cannot dictate when their fellow workers will strike. It is a substantive power held by retail workers, and it is what underpins the current industrial system. Stop redefining the question to suit your bullshit needs. Retail and hospitality workers have penalty rates because they are something they value and have bargained for, up to and including being willing to strike for them. That is PRECISELY THE IDEAL THEORETICAL OUTCOME OF THE SYSTEM YOU DESIRE. Penalty rates are not simply being maintained by the cackling, greedy Sunday workers lording it over their weekday kind. They are and have been maintained by collective worker action. I get the strong impression that what you are dancing around admitting here is that you do not want workers to have the right or ability to collectively bargain. When you say you want workers to bargain for penalty rates, you mean on an individual basis, going cap in hand to their boss every week and convincing them they're worth the 50% loading.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:39 |
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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-budget-2014-at-a-glance-20140603-zrvyd.html?rand=1401770026377 posted:The key measures in the Queensland budget handed down on June 3, 2014.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:41 |
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Quantum Mechanic posted:I get the strong impression that what you are dancing around admitting here is that you do not want workers to have the right or ability to collectively bargain. When you say you want workers to bargain for penalty rates, you mean on an individual basis, going cap in hand to their boss every week and convincing them they're worth the 50% loading. They should have the right to collectively bargain which means the ability to choose whether to accept a default agreement/award/whatever for that position / industry, collectively bargain for a different deal with that one employer or individually negotiate a contract. The choice of the option should be up to the employee.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:48 |
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Tokamak posted:I'm not convinced. Iwc would've changed the topic to Tim flannery by now.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 05:55 |
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He's not IWC, check his rap sheet. He's such a pathetic weenie that he wants people to think he's IWC.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:05 |
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adamantium|wang posted:Clive drove to work again today New avatar found
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:05 |
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I had a dream last night that I was on holidays with Clive except up close his skin is an amazing bronze tanned, and he was hitting up girly bars and trying to get me to come with him
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:07 |
e: pee poo
Drugs fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:09 |
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Those On My Beet posted:Iwc would've changed the topic to Tim flannery by now. Have you not seen my posts on the Climate thread in D&D... (a) Ripping into people for not understanding what science is - "where's the scientific proof" Umm, Dude, Proof exists in mathematics not science. "science is not consensus" - ah, well how are theories accepted then? (b) Generally nuking arguments against anthropogenic climate change in favour of the scientific consensus; (c) Suggesting climate policy and renewable energy (such as solar PV, Solar therm, distributed grids, generally not nuclear unless its Thorium MSR); (d) Sometimes I can appear on the other side of the debate when someone raises a secondary effect argument that is not supported with a weight of evidence. Edit: These guys are more dangerous than the likes of Plimer because they take the focus off the main problem and give the 'do nothing' easy wins. BTW - Tim Flannery got his budget cut and then the community gave it back to him, now what's that say about government funding priorities and policy outcomes? Hypation fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 3, 2014 |
# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:09 |
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Fruity Gordo posted:He's not IWC, check his rap sheet. He's such a pathetic weenie that he wants people to think he's IWC. I am not, nor have I ever been IWC. I never even claimed to be.
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:18 |
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# ? Jun 12, 2024 04:22 |
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Denial is a sure sign of gilt
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# ? Jun 3, 2014 06:23 |