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Not looking like a dildo with a giant ring welded onto it might also have helped.
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Jun 3, 2014 00:23
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Pussy Cartel posted:Not looking like a dildo with a giant ring welded onto it might also have helped. Or costing more than a carrier.
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Jun 3, 2014 00:28
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Fix Lag posted:Or costing more than a carrier. Market forced will diddle the prices down another tens of millions. And yes the Nestor is a tool missing a role atm but I'm sure they will theorycraft something for it after the metachanges coming in a few years.
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Jun 3, 2014 00:47
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elanciano posted:Thanks for the feedback ranbo, I was thinking of a mixture between any interesting things I can catch from FA fleets and solo forays with ships like :navy omen, Ishtar, maybe an soe ship (obviously not the Nestor as I don't understand it's existence) and laser gnosis (kind of an out there weird fit) Weird out-there fits are some of the most fun to watch. I mean, I remember watching Kovorix's Navy Omen PVP video and thinking it was a weird fit, but it became pretty much the definitive solo pvp fit. Also, a a little tip, don't be afraid to speed up your footage, eve can be a bit slow at times. Make sure to psot it here whenever you finish, I'm looking forward to it!
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Jun 3, 2014 00:58
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Pussy Cartel posted:Not looking like a dildo with a giant ring welded onto it might also have helped. Many ships that look like dildos have enjoyed success
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Jun 3, 2014 00:59
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Pussy Cartel posted:Not looking like a dildo with a giant ring welded onto it might also have helped. Angry Fish posted:And yes the Nestor is a tool missing a role atm but  Oh, did you say role? nvm
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Jun 3, 2014 00:59
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I just watched a streamer's 30 man fleet go down in flames to a bunch of [GEWNS] tags. Good work goons.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:58
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Chomp8645 posted:I just watched a streamer's 30 man fleet go down in flames to a bunch of [GEWNS] tags. Was the broadcast saved? If so, do you have a link?
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Jun 3, 2014 02:02
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Artificer posted:Was the broadcast saved? If so, do you have a link? http://www.twitch.tv/sirsqueebles/b/534787506 Long rear end video, skip to 4:07:00. It just happened fifteen minutes ago so maybe he'll put out the battle later. The battle went down right in I30-3A so they must have been looking for a fight, and it looks like Theta squad's work. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:18
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Chomp8645 posted:http://www.twitch.tv/sirsqueebles/b/534787506 I love how a less than 30 day old newbee, Jahan Jahansson had the streamer scrammed, webbed and neuted almost from the beginning of the fight and it stayed that way until the streamer died. Have some isk, Jahan.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:35
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Chomp8645 posted:http://www.twitch.tv/sirsqueebles/b/534787506 I like how a few minutes before that went down he was complaining because he roamed all the way to VFK and wasn't going to get a fight. I also like how some idiot was looking at Twitch streams just before that and called a blue roaming BS fleet that was streaming as a neut fleet and got them all excited until they realized the stream linked in intel was their own. (It's me, I'm the idiot. Sorry about that.)
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Jun 3, 2014 03:40
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Chomp8645 posted:I just watched a streamer's 30 man fleet go down in flames to a bunch of [GEWNS] tags. Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:52
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Nyfrin posted:
We had a good laugh about that, no worries. It turned out well. We killed a gang, and I finally lost my old alpha fleet Maelstrom  Moomin was commanding the Theta guys, and he survived in a Slasher with 5% structure. Great work logi!
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Jun 3, 2014 03:55
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ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. The Deimos that died was also rail fit! We're pretty good at EVE.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:58
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I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down. Hell, what are the point of tank ships anyways? They don't have enough damage dealing potential to be threats to be worth primaried, nor do they tend to have any other special abilities.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:00
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Artificer posted:I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:05
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Artificer posted:I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down. Hell, what are the point of tank ships anyways? They don't have enough damage dealing potential to be threats to be worth primaried, nor do they tend to have any other special abilities. I'm far from an expert having only flown a burst once in a harpy fleet. But the experienced guys told me to have the bursts below and above me by name locked and watch all the other ones. Any time one of us just took a sniff of damage, we were immediately repping each other. On the other hand for the harpies, they had to broadcast, then needed to be locked and many were saved on the brink and a few not at all. All in all, the opposition had no success against the bursts but some success against the harpies. I hope I'm not saying something stupid here, so here goes, a burst isn't very robust compared to a harpy, but having a couple of logis ready to pounce the instant you show red more than makes up for it. I'd imagine it's the same higher up the chain.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:28
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ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. That, and light cynos.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:28
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Daler Mehndi posted:If you shoot at someone's logis, that leaves their DPS alone, and they can apply that DPS while you're trying to take down the logis. Or at least that's how it's been explained to me anyway. It's situational. If the logistics anchor is good, they will be in a position where you can't easily apply your DPS to them. Logistics pilots also make a practice of keeping each other prelocked and generally make a solid effort to keep each other alive, so volleying through one before they start catching reps can be a lot harder than just knocking out some random dps ship that isn't receiving any special attention. Sometimes you'll just have enough raw damage or alpha to kill ships before logistics can save them. Battleships, for example, will rarely target hostile logi, since their entire composition is built around killing their target before its logistics can respond (and their guns have a very hard time applying damage to AB cruisers that should be keeping out of range). In a more casual setting, killing all the logistics is often the queue for the hostile fleet to run away since they know they they're all going to die if they stick around. If you're in it for a brawl and aren't being completely stonewalled by the enemy's rep power, it can be worth it to engage the main body of their fleet instead just to prolong the fight. In very small gang stuff, logistics are almost always the first primary, just behind Falcons, and they stay alive by positioning themselves where they can't be shot.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:28
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Artificer posted:I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down. Hell, what are the point of tank ships anyways? They don't have enough damage dealing potential to be threats to be worth primaried, nor do they tend to have any other special abilities. Basically, here's the math going on in most FCs heads: I have X dps ships, and it takes them N seconds per ship to kill one. The enemy has Y dps ships, and it takes our fleet M seconds to kill a hostile. If X*N < Y*M, we win. Logistics exist to make N/M longer; losing DPS also makes N/M longer. So, the logic is: * If you kill a logi, and they killed a DPS ship or two, then your DPS losses are going to counteract the loss of repping. * If you kill a DPS ship, then they're slowed down in killing you. Of course, there is a threshold where one side or the other doesn't have enough DPS to break logi -- at that point, you have no choice but to kill logi (or disengage). It's also a psychological thing; most FCs keep a sharp eye on their # of logi still alive, but not DPS. (Logi usually start shouting loudly if they die.) So killing DPS first is useful because you can get a few kills before the FC realizes how hosed they are.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:55
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ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. Speaking of which, I've been playing for about a year and I still don't have really great grasp of combat. Sure, orbit at optimal and press F1. Stuff you learn on day 1. And being a grunt in big fleets isn't very hard. But I still don't know what to do in solo/micro/small gang stuff like the above. I wonder if there isn't a way to put some more advanced combat techniques in a wiki entry or class like our WTF 101 fleets. hint hint
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Jun 3, 2014 04:59
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Artificer posted:I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down. Hell, what are the point of tank ships anyways? They don't have enough damage dealing potential to be threats to be worth primaried, nor do they tend to have any other special abilities. My understanding is that Logi are a cruiser hull with a sig a bit bigger than a frigate, are reasonably fast and can rep from 40-50km behind the gang. They are basically a pretty lovely target if they are not tackled, because they'll just kite around in falloff. To get at them, people have to fly through a gang without getting covered in webs and scrams.
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Jun 3, 2014 05:01
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Superstring posted:Speaking of which, I've been playing for about a year and I still don't have really great grasp of combat. Sure, orbit at optimal and press F1. Stuff you learn on day 1. And being a grunt in big fleets isn't very hard. But I still don't know what to do in solo/micro/small gang stuff like the above. I wonder if there isn't a way to put some more advanced combat techniques in a wiki entry or class like our WTF 101 fleets. Ullerm will be obviously better at this then me, but spiraling to reduce damage taken is absolutely massive. I know, EVE UNI, but their stuff on mechanics is usually pretty ok.
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Jun 3, 2014 05:32
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ullerrm posted:Basically, here's the math going on in most FCs heads: I would say for me it depends specifically on which side of the equation I can get more leverage from. Say your reps have enough power to neutralize 5 hostile dps ships. And the hostile fleet is the same. If I have 20 dps to their 4 logi versus them having 15dps to my 2 logi, then I need will have a hard time killing a dps ship before they can kill one of mine, in spite of numbers (ignoring alpha under the assumption that it's a small enough fight that I'm not one-shotting), so I would probably try to break a logi first; this also means my 20 ships are facing only 3 logi leaving me some dps overhead. Conversely, if I'm them I would probably still go for logi because I'm (the first me) an idiot with a bad fleet comp and killing one of my reps means my fleet is dead if tackled. If I wanted to kill more stuff I'd ignore the logi knowing I can break them and start killing dps ships. This simple math ignores the fact that reps (and dps) land in waves, with the shape of the wave changing as an engagement lengthens (early on your alphas will be right, after a few targets they will be more like lognormal curves as target switching and weapon cycles stagger shots), but the general concept works. This sort of wave shape is why logi becomes less important above a certain fleet size. You can counter the slush invests somewhat by doing countdowns for dps, which matters for alpha doctrines more than dps doctrines, but logi will always get messy later in a fight. Of course in small to medium gang fights without tidi it's not as mechanical as this. You have to get a feel for approximate comp and go from there. Support ships complicate the calculus by either reducing your effective dps (jams, damps, neuts) or increasing theirs (webs, painters, neuts). I'd probably ignore a Lach for example unless I was disengaging or it was scramming an MWD fleet, but a Huginn or Curse (haha yeah right no-one flies those) would get shot very high in the order.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:20
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orange juche posted:This was a stupid sad post about how much I miss flying with space violence that I deleted, seriously if you haven't flown with the dudes from SV, you should, it's definitely one of the better times I've had in eve. I am at kunsan. Hit mee up on jabber, I have been meaning to play more.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:32
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ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. In the Scythes defense, I was flying one of the scythes, and the other 5 were being flown by an isboxer. And we kept Moomin alive and dodged 2x FC headshot 
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Jun 3, 2014 08:04
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Artificer posted:I don't get it. Why don't people go after logistics ships instantly at the start of every fight? You would think that they would be always the primary targets. And yet I see fights where logistics aren't targeted until after a few DPS ships are down. Hell, what are the point of tank ships anyways? They don't have enough damage dealing potential to be threats to be worth primaried, nor do they tend to have any other special abilities. logistics ships tank well due to tech II resists and sig radius
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Jun 3, 2014 08:31
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Sometimes you can kill a ship before the logistics have the ability to respond to the ship being shot at. Sometimes because it's a ship thats known for having a weak tank, or because it's out of range of logi, or the logistics might have been incapacitated. Or because it's a falcon. Logistics tend to be very close to eachother, and depending on the situation, could be a good distance away from the rest of the fleet. If you have range dampeners, you can range cap the logistics and kill a lot of their DPS before their logistics get back into range of their own fleet. Basically it depends if you can kill something, and how fast you can kill it. Logi generally have at least one other logi pre-locked, so that adds time to a kill. It all depends on the engagement, positioning, ship types, and information on the other fleet. For example, I know and remember a lot of pilots and FCs in the Amarr/Minmatar warzone. I know a lot of the neutral people in the region too, and I generally remember the names of the people that fly badly fitted ships. I primary them all the time. 1001 Arabian dicks fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 12:09
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ranbo das posted:I thought they removed the max speed thing because people were using vindis to gank jump freighters in losec. This was a bug, where you could make it so someone couldn't cancel warp. Now, you just cancel the warp and dock up. You don't need any specific speed to cancel a warp.
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Jun 3, 2014 12:10
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Sometimes its also a good idea to kill 1-2 logi so you can reliably break things in the enemy fleet, then go after DPS ships so they hold on field longer.
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Jun 3, 2014 12:27
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ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. Theta need a good cruiser sized doctrine right now. Kitchen sink gets so many expensive blue ships killed though it's hilarious. We should probably go the way of the rest of GSF and adopt Ruptures.
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Jun 3, 2014 13:49
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Bedshaped posted:Theta need a good cruiser sized doctrine right now. Kitchen sink gets so many expensive blue ships killed though it's hilarious. Funny you should say that because our new doctrine... well...  Join Theta, fly Macharielwaffe
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Jun 3, 2014 14:11
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Bedshaped posted:Theta need a good cruiser sized doctrine right now. Kitchen sink gets so many expensive blue ships killed though it's hilarious. We actually dropped reinforcement ruptures on the that MoA gang. They're like mini battleships for everyone who lose their battleship.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:15
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Drone changes going through today right? Is it time to start carrier ratting with FIGHTERS again?
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Jun 3, 2014 15:18
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DisgracelandUSA posted:We actually dropped reinforcement ruptures on the that MoA gang. They're like mini battleships for everyone who lose their battleship. I'm looking forward to Moa fleet with the new model. Hs anyone considered a BC doctrine with warp rigs to keep the mobility at a cruiser-ish level? Also, do any of the industry changes go through with this update or were they all postponed?
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Jun 3, 2014 15:27
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various cheeses posted:Drone changes going through today right? Is it time to start carrier ratting with FIGHTERS again? edit: Nevermind. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXj01Pcx7Uc e2: Sixx Spades posted:e: Damnit Siets! 
Siets fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 15:42
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Famethrowa posted:Ullerm will be obviously better at this then me, but spiraling to reduce damage taken is absolutely massive. I know, EVE UNI, but their stuff on mechanics is usually pretty ok. When Sirhan Blixt has enough help and enough newbies WTF101 usually teaches a class in spiraling. Usually a BS/T3BC pilot will ungroup his guns and lock up the whole gang and try to snipe at them with one gun apiece and we try to see who can get to the target without being "Tagged". ullerrm posted:Good stuff, but god drat, bad gewns. Vagabonds and Cynabals orbiting a gang of 20+ Moas at 5km? And Scythes at the same? It's amazing how much stuff Ceofore killed before he got shut down. Problem number two is having scythes instead of scimitars in a nanohac fleet. I mean when your average hull cost in the gang is pushing 200k, doing logi with a throwaway hull is silly and gimps the gang. It would be like protecting the hope diamond with a sign that says "Don't take". Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 15:46
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Siets posted:It remains to be seen if fighters now behave like drones and respond to hostile targets. Additionally, not sure if anyone has confirmed fighters can track frigates with their newly increased sig radius. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXj01Pcx7Uc Point is, fighters are able to hit frigs after a couple of seconds after slowing their fat asses down, but it remains to be seen if this is the style of ratting people will want to do because of the lack of drone aggro. e: Damnit Siets!
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Jun 3, 2014 15:49
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Do we know if CCP plans to make fighters behave like drones currently, or will they stay as-is? edit: vvv Why would targeting battleships first kill AFK ratting? Just because you remain tackled for longer? Siets fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 15:54
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Reports from live post-patch indicate that both Wasp's and Gecko's are now prioritizing Battleships over all else. The days of afk ratting may be in the past (although there is nothing in the patch notes about this, so it might just be a gently caress up).
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