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I hope Bronn decides that he hates his super posh new life acting nice with all the miserable nobility and would rather whore and kill. He swoops in to rescue Tyrion from the gallows as the A-Team theme plays in the background. Bronn cuts through a bunch of red shirts, he and Tyrion hop on a fast horse and make haste for... somewhere.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:37
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Aristobulus posted:One thing I am curious about - after Oberyn's death pissed so many people off, if Tyrion does die in the next 2 episodes - how many people will actually stop watching the show for good? Tyrion was the only reason I kept watching during Season 2 and just zoned out whenever Theon, Dany, or Robb were on screen. I would have stopped watching if GRRM killed him off then but the show has done a good enough job with Arya and Littlefinger's plots that I'll keep watching.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:40
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Aristobulus posted:Eh...Ramsey didn't exactly get rewarded for torturing Theon, he got rewarded for recapturing the fort. Theon was just how he did it, true, but he probably would've got the same reward if he had found another way. True, and I really liked that his father was originally pissed at him for what he did, although I understand that was a result of the loss of value as a hostage as you said and not out of some moral reasoning. I don't know, I just hate watching torture, I can't stand the Saw movies for the same reason. Brutal deaths aren't too bad because they're normally quick and you have the knowledge that it's all tv to lessen the impact. Watching Theon and Ramsey though is just disgusting to me, it makes me feel really dirty to watch.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:42
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PantsBandit posted:True, and I really liked that his father was originally pissed at him for what he did, although I understand that was a result of the loss of value as a hostage as you said and not out of some moral reasoning. I don't know, I just hate watching torture, I can't stand the Saw movies for the same reason. Brutal deaths aren't too bad because they're normally quick and you have the knowledge that it's all tv to lessen the impact. Watching Theon and Ramsey though is just disgusting to me, it makes me feel really dirty to watch. It is brutal to watch, I will give you that. However, I feel like it was necessary to A) establish what kind of character Ramsey truly is and B) explain how truly hosed in the head Theon is now. Those scenes were very tough to watch, but I feel like they weren't over the top and I went from absolutely hating Theon to now feeling terrible for Reek 
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Jun 3, 2014 15:53
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Shath Hole posted:Those scenes were very tough to watch, but I feel like they weren't over the top He literally cut off his dick and ate it. I mean it's GoT so it's sort of the nature of the beast but not over the top?
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Jun 3, 2014 15:56
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PantsBandit posted:He literally cut off his dick and ate it. I mean it's GoT so it's sort of the nature of the beast but not over the top? He didn't eat it, he sent it to his father and sister  They didn't show it either, we just knew that Ramsey cut off his dick. If we are talking about this from a pure gore perspective, we have seen much, much worse from this show than Theon's physical torture imo.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:58
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Shath Hole posted:He didn't eat it, he sent it to his father and sister Wait, really? This whole time I assumed that the sausage in the infamous gif was supposed to be Theon's dong.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:59
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PantsBandit posted:Wait, really? This whole time I assumed that the sausage in the infamous gif was supposed to be Theon's dong. That was a pork sausage  e: He lead Theon to believe it was his dong, and he was playing mind games for sure but it wasn't actually it.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:00
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Durzel posted:I too don't really understand why the books have to be considered sacrosanct. They're not historical accounts, Weiss & Benioff's screenplay is just as valid as GRRMs fiction, and there's no shame in the former being merely inspired by the latter. The real problem though is that if they deviate too far from the books then they're into fiction writing territory rather than adaptation and I'd imagine they've got more than enough on their hands just adapting the books as they exist now. I read the books and they definitely don't have to be considered sacrosanct. The first 3 are amazing, but Martin started losing his touch with A Feast for Crows (the 4th) and never really got back to his best shape. I don't know how the last 2 will turn out but he's written himself into a corner more often than not lately, so I kind of expect more of the same. W&B are in a pretty unique spot: the story has already been told once and even the staunchest fans admit some character arcs are simply not salvageable anymore, but guess what, they can just change what they don't like and make it work. I was a huge fan of the books but now I hope they do drastically change stuff because Martin's excuse "no one's central to anything/no one's safe" sounds dumb when your narrative rhythm turns into complete poo poo on its account. However, no, I wouldn't say the show has really deviated "considerably" from the books. Judging by what they changed/anticipated for certain characters (don't forget the show's gone into a grey territory where it's a bit spoilery for us book readers as well!) the seeds to do something different with the story have been planted, but it's all in the hands of Weiss and Benioff.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:00
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The Theon torture stuff was and is pretty stupid, and is basically a hosed up coming of age story for Theon. If you think no one ever gets their comeuppance wrapped in a bow in this show, you point to that arc. "An immature character who thinks with his dick and acts like an rear end in a top hat to everyone? Wait for it--he gets his dick cut off and becomes an emasculated, tormented babyman! It's like poetry, it rhymes." Name Change fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 16:04
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Regy Rusty posted:Get hosed Sansa haters. No More Heroes posted:Dolorous Edd actually had some pretty cool lines too!  Toplowtech posted:GRRM is Orson, the beetles are the characters, Tyrion is the TV watchers. And who is the mule? MC Fruit Stripe posted:I am honestly shocked, and obviously some percentage of you people are lying, that anyone could not know what is coming up on this show. We're watching episodes based on a book which is over a decade old, and the sole reason the internet exists is to spoil and troll, so how did anyone not know the result of the fight?  I'm very nearly 100% unspoiled on the entire show, start to finish. Never touched a GRRM book in my life. poo poo happens in these episodes and I don't see it coming. It's loving wonderful. Roland Jones posted:That's why the whole "Myrcella going to another wherever" thing was important. Sending her on a vacation wouldn't have been big enough to work for Tyrion's plot. The other possibilities were marrying Robyn (I think), and... I forgot, some other person. But, yeah. There's more keeping her gone than Tyrion wanting her out of King's Landing. I still think back to Cersei's recent "Here's a fancy ship, take it to Myrcella for me please" bit and think there's something big going on there. Trojan Ship? precision posted:I think it's because Iwen Rhoen is such a good actor. Whenever he's not actually torturing people, it seems like he (and I) forget that he's probably literally the most evil gently caress in the entire show. MeccaPrime posted:Brienne of Tarth confirmed for the next Star Wars movie
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Jun 3, 2014 16:20
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Stonefish posted:I never hated Sansa. I hated anyone who wrote a character with no agency at all for 37 episodes. She's picking up pace now, but she coulda made fewer appearances along the way. Imagine if Rickon Walnutsbane had been in every episode to date. I stand by my original statement.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:22
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quote:One problem as a book reader is that you develop a very personal attachment to the story as it is told and to your interpretation of that story. In a film/tv adaption, the slightest digression from its source, from the the choice of actor to the minute technical details involved in transforming words on paper into flesh and blood individuals, is like stomping all over the connection a reader has already established with the story. Kind of like killing off popular characters in super contrived situations? I don't think they really care about that exactly.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:23
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Vehementi posted:super contrived situations? What super contrived situations? :/
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Jun 3, 2014 16:24
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Steve2911 posted:What super contrived situations? :/ "Ok ok check it out, so Frey wants to kill this guy, so he's going to invite them to his place under other pretences yeah? But wait hold on, he's not going to kill anyone at first in the easy ambush circumstances, he'll instead break bread to ensure that everybody in the land hates him subsequently: they're going to have a super long wedding first to give the Starks ample opportunity to uncover the plot, but all the guards, see, are going to perfectly keep the secret and not hint anything, but still be able to act with perfect synchroneity and knowledge of everything, and also all the Stark guards are going to be away and in position to ambush all of them at once, and we're going to play the lannister song first to warn everyone poetically, and and and ..." + getting the writer for Scream to write the "mountain comes back from choking on his own blood" scene (you asked) Just saying, GRRM's writing gimmick is to quote:stomping all over the connection a reader has already established with the story. Vehementi fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 16:30
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I've avoided this thread for fear of spoilers so I apologize since this was probably asked before. The fight between Obyren and the Mountain was a tie right? So why was Tyrion found guilty? Or is that how it works?
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Jun 3, 2014 16:32
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twitter and bisted posted:I've avoided this thread for fear of spoilers so I apologize since this was probably asked before. The fight between Obyren and the Mountain was a tie right? So why was Tyrion found guilty? Or is that how it works? It wasn't a tie. Crushing Oberyn's skull required Gregor to be alive.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:33
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Yeah The Mountain seemed like he won that pretty "handily"
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Jun 3, 2014 16:34
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twitter and bisted posted:I've avoided this thread for fear of spoilers so I apologize since this was probably asked before. The fight between Obyren and the Mountain was a tie right? So why was Tyrion found guilty? Or is that how it works? Death by exploding head is like rock to Oberyn's spears scissors.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:35
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I think the first to die loses. That is the guy with his brains on the outside. Beaten like a guy bringing a spear to a plate armor fight.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:39
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Vehementi posted:"Ok ok check it out, so Frey wants to kill this guy, so he's going to invite them to his place under other pretences yeah? But wait hold on, he's not going to kill anyone at first in the easy ambush circumstances, he'll instead break bread to ensure that everybody in the land hates him subsequently: they're going to have a super long wedding first to give the Starks ample opportunity to uncover the plot, but all the guards, see, are going to perfectly keep the secret and not hint anything, but still be able to act with perfect synchroneity and knowledge of everything, and also all the Stark guards are going to be away and in position to ambush all of them at once, and we're going to play the lannister song first to warn everyone poetically, and and and ..." + getting the writer for Scream to write the "mountain comes back from choking on his own blood" scene The Red Wedding was based on a historical event. If you want to complain about it being contrived, remember art was just imitating life. Also, I was talking about establishing a connection with a story, not with the characters. As much as you may hate it, the death of the characters, gimmick or not, is the story.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:41
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Wait are we sure Oberyn is dead What if he's just sleeping
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Jun 3, 2014 16:45
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BubbleGoose posted:The Red Wedding was based on a historical event. If you want to complain about it being contrived, remember art was just imitating life. Also, I was talking about establishing a connection with a story, not with the characters. As much as you may hate it, the death of the characters, gimmick or not, is the story. They probably didn't do a good job of selling this, but they also wanted to go in for the kill when all the soldiers were drunk and useless, not when they were on edge and anticipating some sort of retaliation when they first walked in.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:45
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Elephanthead posted:I think the first to die loses. That is the guy with his brains on the outside. Beaten like a guy bringing a spear to a plate armor fight. I can't believe that this simple concept has confused so many people - it's been asked literally dozens of times since the episode ended.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:46
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Max posted:They probably didn't do a good job of selling this, but they also wanted to go in for the kill when all the soldiers were drunk and useless, not when they were on edge and anticipating some sort of retaliation when they first walked in. I think it was pretty obvious. A wedding, guest right, you think you're cool with this guy, of course you're going to let your guys drink. And of course drinking is going to lower your defenses. This wasn't contrived, it was a trap, and an extremely effective one, which is why guest right was so highly regarded in the first place.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:50
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Vehementi posted:"Ok ok check it out, so Frey wants to kill this guy, so he's going to invite them to his place under other pretences yeah? But wait hold on, he's not going to kill anyone at first in the easy ambush circumstances, he'll instead break bread to ensure that everybody in the land hates him subsequently: they're going to have a super long wedding first to give the Starks ample opportunity to uncover the plot, but all the guards, see, are going to perfectly keep the secret and not hint anything, but still be able to act with perfect synchroneity and knowledge of everything, and also all the Stark guards are going to be away and in position to ambush all of them at once, and we're going to play the lannister song first to warn everyone poetically, and and and ..." + getting the writer for Scream to write the "mountain comes back from choking on his own blood" scene Yeah guest right completely nullifies this wall of shite.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:53
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BubbleGoose posted:I think it was pretty obvious. A wedding, guest right, you think you're cool with this guy, of course you're going to let your guys drink. And of course drinking is going to lower your defenses. This wasn't contrived, it was a trap, and an extremely effective one, which is why guest right was so highly regarded in the first place. Not to mention all the events that lead up to and ultimately resulted in the Red Wedding. But yeah, totally contrived 
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Jun 3, 2014 16:55
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To get away from this discussion for a bit, they should send Bran and pals to the same place they sent Osha and Rickon: off the show forever because his plot is stupid and boring.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:08
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BubbleGoose posted:The Red Wedding was based on a historical event. If you want to complain about it being contrived, remember art was just imitating life. Also, I was talking about establishing a connection with a story, not with the characters. As much as you may hate it, the death of the characters, gimmick or not, is the story. Like it or not, to a lot (most?) people, the characters drive or are the story. quote:I think it was pretty obvious. A wedding, guest right, you think you're cool with this guy, of course you're going to let your guys drink. And of course drinking is going to lower your defenses. This wasn't contrived, it was a trap, and an extremely effective one, which is why guest right was so highly regarded in the first place. It's easier to understand when you recognize that GRRM's gimmick is to make it seem like one thing is happening and then suddenly destroy that. And in most of the cases (Joffrey suddenly deciding to execute Ned, grand conspiracy theory red wedding, near dead guy springs back to life to murder, etc.) the way it is executed is just absurd. Just like there were 100 ways they could have done Oberyn dying without it being a laugh out loud "haha they pulled the TV trope of the completely incapacitated guy getting the best of the 'winnner'" situation, Frey could have done a wedding ambush in 100 other ways that weren't "Okay, we're going to have this huge conspiracy where our 500 soldiers know to strike at exactly the same time and we're going to hope nobody has a qualm with this and tips anyone off and and and ..." Why bother with a giant wedding - did they need the drunk advantage to kill Robb's 10 dudes in the keep throne room? For a guy who apparently doesn't care at all that he just ruined his house name for all time, you think he would just sacrifice 5 extra soldiers to kill Robb right off the bat without all the insane risks of a gigantic wedding conspiracy plot. For me, the red wedding was surprising because the situation was so ludicrously contrived, not because they killed Robb. When I zoom out and look at the overall situation (you were expecting Robb to avenge Ned and now hope is crushed), it's great. Just the execution was laughable here.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:09
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Vehementi posted:"Ok ok check it out, so Frey wants to kill this guy, so he's going to invite them to his place under other pretences yeah? But wait hold on, he's not going to kill anyone at first in the easy ambush circumstances, he'll instead break bread to ensure that everybody in the land hates him subsequently: they're going to have a super long wedding first to give the Starks ample opportunity to uncover the plot, but all the guards, see, are going to perfectly keep the secret and not hint anything, but still be able to act with perfect synchroneity and knowledge of everything, and also all the Stark guards are going to be away and in position to ambush all of them at once, and we're going to play the lannister song first to warn everyone poetically, and and and ..." + getting the writer for Scream to write the "mountain comes back from choking on his own blood" scene You literally don't know what the gently caress you're talking about.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:15
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I don't even know how to respond to this other than feel free to stop watching the show if it offends your superior television drama producing abilities.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:16
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Vehementi posted:Why bother with a giant wedding - did they need the drunk advantage to kill Robb's 10 dudes in the keep throne room? For a guy who apparently doesn't care at all that he just ruined his house name for all time, you think he would just sacrifice 5 extra soldiers to kill Robb right off the bat without all the insane risks of a gigantic wedding conspiracy plot. For me, the red wedding was surprising because the situation was so ludicrously contrived, not because they killed Robb. When I zoom out and look at the overall situation (you were expecting Robb to avenge Ned and now hope is crushed), it's great. Just the execution was laughable here. Uh, the plotters also had to kill the thousands of Stark troops camped outside the keep with a numerically inferior force. So most "plot holes" and "tactical realism" gripes are people literally not paying attention to the words and images coming off the screen, right?
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Jun 3, 2014 17:18
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quote:Uh, the plotters also had to kill the thousands of Stark troops camped outside the keep with a numerically inferior force. The whole idea of the bridge is that you can't take it by force. Kill dudes in throne room, close the door, proceed to previous situation of "the army can't take the bridge" but now with "the army doesn't have a leader". Shath Hole posted:I don't even know how to respond to this other than feel free to stop watching the show if it offends your superior television drama producing abilities. I'll feel free to discuss it here - if critiquing baby's first fantasy novel hurts your sensibilities maybe you can leave?
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Jun 3, 2014 17:18
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Vehementi posted:I'll feel free to discuss it here - if critiquing baby's first fantasy novel hurts your sensibilities maybe you can leave? The only thing hurting my sensibilities is your horrible posting. Feel free to not discuss it here and do the rest of us a favor? That'd be greaaaaaaaaaat.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:21
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Vehementi posted:The whole idea of the bridge is that you can't take it by force. Kill dudes in throne room, close the door, proceed to previous situation of "the army can't take the bridge" but now with "the army doesn't have a leader". Yes, dealing with an army beseiging your castle indefinitely seems a far superior option to just killing them you are a very smart individual.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:27
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People were commenting earlier on Sansa's new goth look, but I got the impression she was just dressing in black to go to the funeral (Littlefinger and Robyn were in black as well). She was certainly exhibiting a new found confidence but I don't think they were tying to show she had changed into evil Sansa or anything.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:30
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Quinch posted:People were commenting earlier on Sansa's new goth look, but I got the impression she was just dressing in black to go to the funeral (Littlefinger and Robyn were in black as well). She was certainly exhibiting a new found confidence but I don't think they were tying to show she had changed into evil Sansa or anything. I apologize if I missed it (this thread moves quick!) but didn't her hair seem black as well? I don't think it means evil Sansa either, the black outfit would make sense for the funeral but the hair kinda threw me unless it was just poor lighting.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:33
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Vehementi posted:Like it or not, to a lot (most?) people, the characters drive or are the story. And so are/do their deaths. Why is this hard to understand?
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Jun 3, 2014 17:41
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Shath Hole posted:I apologize if I missed it (this thread moves quick!) but didn't her hair seem black as well? I don't think it means evil Sansa either, the black outfit would make sense for the funeral but the hair kinda threw me unless it was just poor lighting. Yes http://imgur.com/gallery/cFsjkYa
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Jun 3, 2014 17:42
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Vehementi posted:It's easier to understand when you recognize that GRRM's gimmick is to make it seem like one thing is happening and then suddenly destroy that. And in most of the cases (Joffrey suddenly deciding to execute Ned, grand conspiracy theory red wedding, near dead guy springs back to life to murder, etc.) the way it is executed is just absurd. That 'gimmick' is called a plot twist and is in pretty much every single interesting story out there. The execution in the show is absurd because much of what is implied or guessed at comes across better in literary form. Vehementi posted:Just like there were 100 ways they could have done Oberyn dying without it being a laugh out loud "haha they pulled the TV trope of the completely incapacitated guy getting the best of the 'winnner'" situation, Frey could have done a wedding ambush in 100 other ways that weren't "Okay, we're going to have this huge conspiracy where our 500 soldiers know to strike at exactly the same time and we're going to hope nobody has a qualm with this and tips anyone off and and and ..." Oberyn was looking for a confession out of the Mountain to implicate Tywin in the death of Elia. That's why he incapacitated him. Oberyn is also a swarthy headstrong guy who thinks nothing bad can happen to him because he lived a life on the edge without any real troubles. His own over-confidence kills him (there's more to it too but it's spoilerish). The Red Wedding was also done in that way because Frey lured a bunch of really good warriors into a trap and basically got them drunk and lowered their guards down. Frey was using his own army and family members to ambush hundreds of well armed soldiers so understandably he wanted to keep the casualties on his side to a minimum. Also an out in the air ambush against Robb could have let Robb escape, which would have been way loving worse for Frey in the long run. Vehementi posted:Why bother with a giant wedding - did they need the drunk advantage to kill Robb's 10 dudes in the keep throne room? For a guy who apparently doesn't care at all that he just ruined his house name for all time, you think he would just sacrifice 5 extra soldiers to kill Robb right off the bat without all the insane risks of a gigantic wedding conspiracy plot. For me, the red wedding was surprising because the situation was so ludicrously contrived, not because they killed Robb. When I zoom out and look at the overall situation (you were expecting Robb to avenge Ned and now hope is crushed), it's great. Just the execution was laughable here. Robb's 10 dudes is Robb's hundreds of dudes in the books. The TV series can't jam a hundred extras in the scene to make it more believable to you. I'm not sure why you think it's contrived. He lured his enemy into a trap and killed him, it's pretty bog-standard stuff. I mean you should really learn how hard it is to be TOTALLY REALISTIC in a series with a budget. What, do you want them to build the pyramids of Mereen instead of using CGI or something too?
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Jun 3, 2014 17:44
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