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Also not all the targeryans were crazy/evil. Like the mad king wasn't supposed have been all that bad before he totally lost it, and danys brother rhaegar was pretty much the coolest
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Jun 4, 2014 02:20
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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BubbleGoose posted:I don't think the writing makes her out to be flawless at all, because she has certainly made mistakes. Her mistakes arise largely from her ignorance and arrogance that should have made themselves apparent the moment she emerged unscathed from that fire with three newborn dragons. There are definite moments of conflict for Dany, but Clarke's interpretation of her is as a young girl with her heart in the right place, not as disposed princess who truly believes that it is her divine right to rule. Who knows, maybe that will come later, and maybe this show has made me a bit cynical, because I can't picture a power player--and Targaryan on top of that--being so high minded and pure of thought as Dany attempts to be, without there being some darker, less conscious psychological motivation at work. Eh? I think early on she was playing Dany as someone with their heart in the right place, recently she's much more "obey mah authoritah!" when it comes to anything. She's just gotten rid of the only guy who had the stones to tell her when she's wrong. The whole "Khaleesi" thing has gone to her head. Dangersim posted:Also not all the targeryans were crazy/evil. Like the mad king wasn't supposed have been all that bad before he totally lost it, and danys brother rhaegar was pretty much the coolest Except he kidnapped Ned's sister, which started this whole mess. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 02:20
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SoFarGone posted:Surprised no one has considered that maybe Sansa really does know what Littlefinger wants. And that's okay with Sansa because it dovetails nicely with what she's wanted all her life. Really looking forward to seeing how that arc is going to play out. The point is he wants her, this isn't hard
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Jun 4, 2014 02:21
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BubbleGoose posted:I don't think the writing makes her out to be flawless at all, because she has certainly made mistakes. Her mistakes arise largely from her ignorance and arrogance that should have made themselves apparent the moment she emerged unscathed from that fire with three newborn dragons. There are definite moments of conflict for Dany, but Clarke's interpretation of her is as a young girl with her heart in the right place, not as disposed princess who truly believes that it is her divine right to rule. Who knows, maybe that will come later, and maybe this show has made me a bit cynical, because I can't picture a power player--and Targaryan on top of that--being so high minded and pure of thought as Dany attempts to be, without there being some darker, less conscious psychological motivation at work. I think that she's definitely got a dark side and I'd love to really see it at some point. We see that she's not very good at seeing morality as anything more than her interpretations of black and white, I'd like that to manifest as her being more brutal and cruel than her just going "huh maybe I shouldn't kill everyone, I will think on this Jorah/Barristan/who-the-gently caress-ever." And honestly, after her rebirth of sorts when she emerges with the dragons, she's only been flawed enough to give her something to do from time to time. Welp, Dany didn't keep an eye on her dragons, I guess she's got to deal with that. Oops, Dany didn't think about the logistics of empire building, now she's going to resolve that and also gently caress Daaaaaaaario in one scene. Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 02:22
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SoFarGone posted:Surprised no one has considered that maybe Sansa really does know what Littlefinger wants. And that's okay with Sansa because it dovetails nicely with what she's wanted all her life. Really looking forward to seeing how that arc is going to play out. Who the hell are you talking to, literally no one believes that
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Jun 4, 2014 02:23
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Kasonic posted:Why would you do this? It's ok, take comfort in the fact that if you're the kind of person who goes on random forums to spoil things for fans of a tv show you probably lead a pretty pathetic life. You may have read spoilers but he has to look himself in the mirror every morning.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:23
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Dangersim posted:The point is he wants her, this isn't hard Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. Sansa wants to be Queen. How hard is that?
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Jun 4, 2014 02:26
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Dangersim posted:Also not all the targeryans were crazy/evil. Like the mad king wasn't supposed have been all that bad before he totally lost it, and danys brother rhaegar was pretty much the coolest Dany doesn't have to be crazy or evil, it's just that I have a problem with Clark's interpretation and her stiff acting. Granted, she isn't always bad, but I don't feel the force of ancestors' conquering spirit in her portrayal of Dany. Let me put it this way: Her transition from Danaerys Stormborn to Danaerys Targeryan isn't impactful. It always feels to me that Clarke is letting everything else in the script, besides her acting, do all the heavy lifting in convincing the audience that she is a Targeryan, if that makes any sense.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:27
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monster on a stick posted:Except he kidnapped Ned's sister, which started this whole mess. They didn't touch on it in the show proper (this comes from the histories and lore stuff), but there's some dispute about that. Robert saw it that way, and he won, so that's the official word on the matter. Viserys totally denies this though, and claims Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly. Viserys is hardly an unbiased source but at the same time, neither are Robert and Ned.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:31
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You would think someone who can apparently contort her eyebrows all the way to the back of her head would put a little more emotion into her delivery.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:32
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PantsBandit posted:It's ok, take comfort in the fact that if you're the kind of person who goes on random forums to spoil things for fans of a tv show you probably lead a pretty pathetic life. You may have read spoilers but he has to look himself in the mirror every morning.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:33
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Kevyn posted:You would think someone who can apparently contort her eyebrows all the way to the back of her head would put a little more emotion into her delivery. She's good at making dick analogies.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:33
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PantsBandit posted:It's ok, take comfort in the fact that if you're the kind of person who goes on random forums to spoil things for fans of a tv show you probably lead a pretty pathetic life. You may have read spoilers but he has to look himself in the mirror every morning. Or PM them to strangers with giant spoilers about how Joffrey dies like some shithead did to me.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:33
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Dangersim posted:The point is he wants her, this isn't hard He wanted Cat. He said so himself. So Sansa dressed up just like her.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:34
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SoFarGone posted:Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. Sansa wants to be Queen. How hard is that? Does he? Seems like a lovely job, you tend to get butchered and/or stabbed and/or poisoned with alarming frequency. King-ing is also pretty terrible for your ability to manipulate Westerosi politics. Time and time again in this show, the most effective and intelligent people are those who stay within arm's reach of the main job. Roose, Tywin, Olenna, and yes, Littlefinger. The foolish ones in this show seems to be thems that actually want supreme power, comically unaware that being King seems to make you more powerless than anything. Also, by this point, you really think Sansa's thinking: Hey you know what I haven't got enough of yet? Royal intrigue. My bet is that Sansa wants revenge, and she sees Littlefinger as the best way to get that.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:39
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Yes, he used to look longingly at the Iron Throne. He wants it. Littlefinger becoming king would be the ultimate symbol of how he bested all those high lords.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:49
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paperchaseguy posted:f My memory must be bad, because I don't recall Cat ever wearing a dress like that. Saying that Sansa wants to be a queen is a bit of a stretch. At this point, I don't think we really knows what she wants. I would venture to say she wants to reclaim her home since she reminisces about it.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:00
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paperchaseguy posted:He wanted Cat. He said so himself. So Sansa dressed up just like her. That's pretty much my point
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Jun 4, 2014 03:06
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Sansa is full of wants, I'm sure, but her primary concern is pretty obvious: she wants to carve out a niche somewhere, anywhere, by any means. She's sick of being at the mercy of everyone in the seven kingdoms, and sticking with Littlefinger is her best bet at the moment.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:07
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pfizerman posted:Does he? Seems like a lovely job, you tend to get butchered and/or stabbed and/or poisoned with alarming frequency. Littlefinger has explicitly and repeatedly said he wants the throne. Creating chaos and the opportunity to seize it is the main motivation that drives that character. All Sansa ever wanted was to marry the prince and become queen. When she told Littlfinger she knew what he wanted, she didn't mean sex. She sees him as her main chance to get what she wants, and after the interrogation by the Vale nobles she understood that he needs her as well, for her pedigree. When she comes down the stairs in the feathered dress, she carries herself with a confidence we haven't seen since the first season, when she was betrothed to Joffrey but hadn't realized what a little poo poo he was. I saw that as her realizing that if she wants to become queen, she needs to step up and finally play the Game. e: Misunderstood your comment about revenge. Yes, you could see all this as her going along to get along and needing a protector, and revenge against the Lannisters is certainly a good motivation for her right now. But the only thing we've ever been told she really wants is the position of queen. I think she learned more than a few things from Margaery when they were together in King's Landing about how to go about that. SoFarGone fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 03:10
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I'm really interested to see what Sansa wants, because based on the last few seasons, I have no idea! Pretty much her sole motivation since Ned died has been survival, and she's finally reached a position where that's more or less assured and she's got the power to pursue something else. She could go so many different directions right now. I wonder if even she knows what she wants.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:11
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Sansa is full of wants, I'm sure, but her primary concern is pretty obvious: she wants to carve out a niche somewhere, anywhere, by any means. She's sick of being at the mercy of everyone in the seven kingdoms, and sticking with Littlefinger is her best bet at the moment. This is an excellent point. Just to be in a position in which she's not kicked around like the community can. VVVVVVVVV Only the Lord of Heads can do that, and he's not making an appearance any time soon. BubbleGoose fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 03:14
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So Lord of Light is going to bring Oberyn back, right?
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Jun 4, 2014 03:14
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WeLandedOnTheMoon! posted:So Lord of Light is going to bring Oberyn back, right? Headless Oberyn would still be a top 5 character in the story.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:16
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pfizerman posted:Does he? Seems like a lovely job, you tend to get butchered and/or stabbed and/or poisoned with alarming frequency. To be fair there have been 3 kings so far: 1. Robert was an obese drunk 2. Joffrey was a psychopath 3. Tommen is a child I'm sure a competent, adult king would be pretty drat powerful.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:22
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KnoxZone posted:Headless Oberyn would still be a top 5 character in the story.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:26
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Hey quick question, assuming Brienne finds Sansa and/or Arya, what exactly is she supposed to do with them? "Keep them safe"? Where? Could the girls claim back Winterfell/the North? I doubt at this stage the Boltons will just give it up, and it seems that all the North armies are tired of fighting, even if they are loyal to the Starks... I'm sure this was covered in an episode somewhere, but I don't have time to go back and rewatch, and I don't read anything about the show outside these threads for fear of spoilers.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:26
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My first thought was take them to Jon Snow at the Wall, but that's probably the least safe place in Westeros at the moment.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:31
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I want a private conversation between Littlefinger and Sansa that begins with "Okay, so how do we destroy House Frey?"
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Jun 4, 2014 03:31
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Brienne should take them to wherever the hell Rickon is. Kid seems pretty alright there.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:41
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SoFarGone posted:My first thought was take them to Jon Snow at the Wall, but that's probably the least safe place in Westeros at the moment. They can pretend to be her new handmaidens, and Brienne can continue Arya's combat training. Lycus fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 03:46
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monster on a stick posted:She's just gotten rid of the only guy who had the stones to tell her when she's wrong. The whole "Khaleesi" thing has gone to her head. Why do people keep forgetting about Barriston? Honestly Barritson has given her far more good advice than anyone else in her inner circle thus far. He is reasonable, smart, capable, experienced and skilled, too. He was the one that first called for mercy and would have likely made the same arguments against her actions when they are off. Which probably means he'll end up drawn & quartered the way things go around here. ED: I know the Helmet thing was pointed out earlier but rewatching the pre-viper Dialogue also has this gem: "Size does not matter, when you are flat on your back!" "Thank the Gods." The Mountain took him out from flat on his back, with his size. That whole conversation really can be read differently on a reviewing. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 03:46
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anybody else notice the part where Jaime admits somebody tried to molest him as a child then laughs? nobody acknowledged it at all and the scene went on as if nothing happened. 
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Jun 4, 2014 03:48
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OctaviusBeaver posted:To be fair there have been 3 kings so far: Are you about to pitch another bank loan for Stannis? That's pretty much The Onion Knight's entire argument.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:52
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poo poo, I just realized something. When Littlefinger has that conversation with Sansa in her room, I think Sansa is sewing the dress she later wears. That's telling.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:53
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I finally caught up with this season after re-watching everything leading up to it over the last month.  It keeps being brought up again and again but I actually really like how this show handles character deaths. They're not actually for shock value, and they're not to defy audience expectations. In-fact, with hindsight they're usually incredibly obvious. Death in this show is an integral part of a character, and the story at large. Every single death is the direct (if often unintended) result of that character's own decisions. More than that, every decision which leads to that death is the result of fundamental aspects of their character. They literally can't escape them without being some one else. As a few examples: Ned had countless opportunities to avoid his death, and seize power. However if he had taken those opportunities, he wouldn't have been Eddard Stark. Warning Cersei to take her children and run, putting his faith in the rule of law and the (dead) king's orders, turning down Renly's offer, trusting Littlefinger and his gold cloaks, all defines who Eddard Stark is. Robb was his father's son. He learned all the lessons his father taught him, and lived those lessons even more than his father did. When faced with the same trail Ned faced (~finding love on the battlefield~), he married his lover instead of fathering a bastard, doing what his father couldn't. And in living those lessons his father taught him, he died pretty much just as his father did. He had countless ways to avoid this death, but if he had he wouldn't have been Robb Stark, the perfect son of Eddard Stark. Now looking at this most recent episode: Oberyn Martel was a man ruled by his passions who spent over a decade obsessing over the murder of his sister, and getting revenge on not just the man who did the deed (The Mountain), but the man who ordered it as well (Tywin). When he came to king's landing, Twyin tried to give him the real politik concession: he'd give up The Mountain but not him self. If Oberyn was a calculating man he would have accepted this as a win and moved on, but he not. He's The Red Viper of Dorne. He gambles everything on an insane impromptu plan to somehow wring a public confession out of The Mountain in a duel any man would be lucky to survive. Doing the sensible thing (killing the Mountain quick and sure, or better yet never fighting him at all) simply isn't in his character.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:55
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SoFarGone posted:Littlefinger has explicitly and repeatedly said he wants the throne. Creating chaos and the opportunity to seize it is the main motivation that drives that character. That's dumb, on both counts. For one, don't trust anything Littlefinger says. His motivations are incredibly well hidden, to both show watchers and book readers. The only thing you can trust is that he wants undermine and destroy entrenched power. Chaos reigns. Second, Sansa's entire evolution has been from naive girl who worships the idea of royalty and nobility, to having the wool ripped from her eyes by a cynical burn victim, a gay knight, a monstrous queen, and a lunatic adolescent psychopath. To think she's still a "laa dee daa knights and fairies" idiot is to be completely blind to the most changed character over the course of the show. Sansa fan club 4 lyfe
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Jun 4, 2014 04:05
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Blazing Ownager posted:Are you about to pitch another bank loan for Stannis? That's pretty much The Onion Knight's entire argument. Stannis has actually proven to be pretty resourceful and adaptable. He'd be a good king. Stannis/Davos 2016
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Jun 4, 2014 04:08
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:Death in this show is an integral part of a character, and the story at large. Every single death is the direct (if often unintended) result of that character's own decisions. More than that, every decision which leads to that death is the result of fundamental aspects of their character. They literally can't escape them without being some one else. All very true. Even Drogo, whose death vexes me to this day, died defending Dany's naivete, finally pulling her back into the real world from whatever fever dream Viserys kept her in.
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Jun 4, 2014 04:09
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Mortabis posted:Stannis has actually proven to be pretty resourceful and adaptable. He'd be a good king. Stannis/Davos 2016 Davos maybe. Sure as hell not Stannis
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Jun 4, 2014 04:16
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