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1337JiveTurkey posted:The idea that LGBT Americans are well off DINKs is popular but not really true. They're the ones that the media loves to talk about but don't make up a larger proportion of the demographic than their straight counterparts and the evidence points to them making up a smaller proportion in reality. Employment discrimination is still legal in many states and lesbians get hit by wage discrimination twice as hard. Meanwhile they're definitely higher than average as far as things like homeless young adults go. Until Windsor, same sex married couples still had to pay taxes on their spouses' health insurance or each maintain their own separate insurance policies. That was an enormous financial hardship on my aunts who have a generous healthcare plan from one's union and a fixed pension. If you have actual numbers on it I'd love to see them. I was not trying to invoke a stereotype, I was going off the larger trends and assuming they were reflected in the gay community as well. The society wide trend for a while now has been for stable relationships and marriages to correlate with higher incomes. I'm yet to see anything that indicates gays are different from straights in this regard, but I haven't looked either. Given that the number one source of divorce is reported as "fights over money" it shouldn't surprise anyone that couples with more money are more stable. Though I will admit that the reverse interpretation - that people who are more stable and capable of forming solid relationships are able to transfer those skills to work and advance faster as a result - is a valid read, it doesn't change the fact that poor people see a higher rate of divorce and desperation that wealthier people. As for being dinks, more states allow gay marriage than allow gay adoption, so while I have not looked up the numbers it seems reasonable on the face to assume that there will be more married gay couples without kids than with. If I'm wrong please correct me, as it was not my intention to give offense
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:33 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:53 |
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SirKibbles posted:What makes this poo poo worse is it was a rumor started by an anti gay marriage group and a lot of gay people didn't even go hmm this seems shady and oddly timed. Just jumped to loving black people right away. Anecdotally, at the moral Mondays protests I went to in NC there was some animosity that the black churches were organizing to campaign for, among other things, gay marriage, but when it was time for things like a march for Trayvon Martin it was only black people that turned up. That's like 3 people griping so it isn't representative of anything, but it did get me to start watching how interests in the "Obama coalition" work together and it seems like there is a lot less solidarity than you would expect given two big election wins
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:39 |
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The gently caress is a DINK
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:54 |
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forbidden lesbian posted:The gently caress is a DINK Double Income, No Kids
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:56 |
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forbidden lesbian posted:The gently caress is a DINK Double Income, No Kids. e:f,b
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:56 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:I can't listen right now, but pretty sure it would be this one: http://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/108 Ah okay, only 49% of white people voted in favor so let's ask ourselves how much we can blame the blacks for oppressing us even though any other arbitrary selection of voters could just as easily be said to "put it over the top". Not saying it's all black people's fault, just saying, you know they were more likely to vote for it... I'll listen to it later, but if your recollection is correct then yeah, gently caress that guy.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:01 |
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Shageletic posted:And we should go after white people due to how Mormons voted. So stupid. No, we should call out a group pf people for, after fighting for their own civil rights within living memory, when confronted with a (partially overlapping!) group that also wants civil rights, tells them to get hosed because that's rank goddamn hypocrisy. Christ, left-wing infighting is so sometimes. E: am I the only one who remembers this being a fairly common talking point when Prop 8 passed? The Daily Show had a segment about it where Larry Willmore said the same loving thing Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:02 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:I can't listen right now, but pretty sure it would be this one: http://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/108 There was also this: quote:I’m not sure what to do with this. I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president. I wept last night. I wept reading the papers this morning. But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual. The implication there being "we gays voted for the black guy, you owe us"
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:08 |
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Somewhere in America, Paul Ryan begins to howl with indignation:quote:Overnight Wednesday, photographs and a video emerged on a Polish tabloid that showed the commander-in-chief lifting weights, doing squats, and using an elliptical machine. In the images his face contorts as he exerts from his workout. Yet again the liberal media shows its true colors, by not showing anything cringe-worthy of Obama, when they lept at running the bro-shots of Representative Ryan! Munkeymon posted:Christ, left-wing infighting is so sometimes. Working men of all nations, unite! *immediately fractures into a dozen squabbling factions*
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:09 |
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MaxxBot posted:Exactly, virtually everything that is commonly believed about LGBT demography is false. The belief is that they're all rich, white men when in reality if you had to make a ridiculous generalization like that they're really all poor, black women. 3.2% of 63% is a lot higher than 4.6% of 12% so no, they're mostly white (as is this country).
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:10 |
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Munkeymon posted:No, we should call out a group pf people for, after fighting for their own civil rights within living memory, when confronted with a (partially overlapping!) group that also wants civil rights, tells them to get hosed because that's rank goddamn hypocrisy. Do keep in mind that there's an important distinction between calling out anti-equality black people as hypocrites, and treating black people as a hivemind just because a majority voted a certain way. If Dan Savage strayed into "If only blacks didn't have the vote, this might not have happened" then it's definitely the latter.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:11 |
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VitalSigns posted:Do keep in mind that there's an important distinction between calling out anti-equality black people as hypocrites, and treating black people as a hivemind just because a majority voted a certain way. This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people (unless we say they're voting D in which cause it is a hivemind) after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away. EDIT: And I don't think he's saying "If blacks didn't have the vote," he's saying "If black people weren't so loving hypocritical maybe it wouldn't have passed." Amergin fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:13 |
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Shageletic posted:And we should go after white people due to how Mormons voted. So stupid. So which demographic cross-tabs is it OK to make connections with voting trends over? Like, Mormons are generally agreed to have been a major force in passing Prop 8, is it OK to point that fact out? Is it similarly OK to point out that relatively conservative Baptist churches also played a role in getting Prop 8 passed? They were literally coordinating with those same out-of-state backers, and the ground game is just as, if not more important than, pouring advertising money into a state. quote:Indeed, Proposition 8 promoters worked closely with black churches across the state, encouraging ministers to deliver sermons in favor of the ban. Is it relative intensity of support that matters, or what? Because "african american" is one of the particular demographics that voted most strongly in favor of Prop 8 (70%). The only demographic with higher support was "weekly churchgoers" (84%) and "black women" (75%), generic "protestant" and "christian" categories are at 65%, everyone else is down near the 50% mark. Interestingly enough, black men are below the norm for both black people and religious people generally, at 62.5%. It's never fair to dump an election result squarely in the lap of one demographic on the cross-tab, since everyone's vote counts. But when you break it down there's clearly higher levels of homophobia or crab mentality ("they were never considered a third of a person!") or whatever in the black community circa 2008 given the huge intensity gap versus every other demographic. This is a forum that loves electoral hypotheticals, like "what if a few less liberals had voted third-party in 2000", and it's probably fair to say that black votes (good turnout and their strong split in favor of prop 8) was a deciding factor in pushing Prop 8 over the top. If I really had to pick one demographic that was responsible for Prop 8 passing, it'd be "religious" or "christian" for sure just based on size. But that doesn't change the fact that black people displayed significantly more support for Prop 8 than even generic "christian". That really sucks from a group that is still fighting its own civil rights struggle and is still within living memory of Jim Crow. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:14 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Somewhere in America, Paul Ryan begins to howl with indignation:
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:14 |
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That's from the Polish tabloid, not CNNyes they did link it just go with me herewho clearly are willing yet again to cover up Obama's many embarrassing faults while highlighting those of the GOP!
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:18 |
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VitalSigns posted:Do keep in mind that there's an important distinction between calling out anti-equality black people as hypocrites, and treating black people as a hivemind just because a majority voted a certain way. Just listen to the audio the Paul MaudDib linked. He does his current events opinionating in the first segment of the podcasts, to it'll be the first thing you hear and it'll take less than 10 minutes.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:18 |
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Leave it to Paul Ryan to bitch about someone's workout face. Besides, shoulder lifts like that one are flipping hard and you're doing it wrong if you don't have that face.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:20 |
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Amergin posted:This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people (unless we say they're voting D in which cause it is a hivemind) after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away. Being black is a result of having one or more parents being black and necessarily includes a) being black and b) that's it. Being conservative, or affiliated with any party of ideology, is the result of choosing to affiliate yourself with an ideology and necessarily includes having a set of beliefs or behaviors that are consistent with that ideology. Comparing the two is a result of being a goddamn moron.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:20 |
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Fried Chicken posted:Yo, read this: The Republican Case Against Republican Economics In a good way, because the Republicans haven't had a reasonable message since then.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:21 |
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Amergin posted:This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people You leftists get upset whenever I treat all people of color like they share the same ideology, yet you yourselves treat people who share the same ideology like they share the same ideology! Checkmate! quote:after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away. gently caress you. Black people didn't take away my rights. A fuckton of white people voted the same way, it's not the fault of black people because you've decided that it's their few votes that came in last and tipped the scale rather than any other selection of Yes voters you please. Blaming one of the most powerless and excluded minorities in America for oppression is absurd. Edit: This is not to deny that homophobia in the black community is a big problem, especially because gay people of color have to suffer racism from the gay community along with the homophobia...but for a gay white cis-man to ponder about whether black people are oppressing him is so ridiculous. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:22 |
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Working men of all nations, unite! *immediately fractures into a dozen squabbling factions* "The LBTQUIG Empowerment Front denounced the GIBLT Power Network today for being insufficiently strident in their support for ...." Or any Tumblr Socil Justis Warrir
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:23 |
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Stultus Maximus posted:Being black is a result of having one or more parents being black and necessarily includes a) being black and b) that's it. Thinking every conservative agrees with every policy and ideological principle of every other conservative, I would say, is also pretty moronic. EDIT: Well, it's more intellectually lazy than moronic I suppose. EDIT2: VitalSigns posted:gently caress you. Black people didn't take away my rights. A fuckton of white people voted the same way, it's not the fault of black people because you've decided that it's their few votes that came in last and tipped the scale rather than any other selection of Yes voters you please. Blaming one of the most powerless and excluded minorities in America for oppression is absurd. White people also haven't been through civil rights movements to try and attain equality only to then turn around and gently caress over some other group's attempt at equality. White people aren't hypocritical when they're homophobic, they're just assholes.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:27 |
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Amergin posted:Thinking every conservative agrees with every policy and ideological principle of every other conservative, I would say, is also pretty moronic. *goes on to generalize about all black people oppressing Dan Savage* Actually, just ponder the difference between these statements you made: Amergin posted:White people aren't hypocritical when they're homophobic, they're just assholes. Amergin posted:said group has voted to take specifically his rights away. Hmmm so when it's white people, we single out the homophobes and call them assholes without drawing conclusions about white people in general. But when it's black people, suddenly it's "black people are loving hypocritical" and they got together as "a group" to vote to take away gay rights. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:28 |
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Amergin posted:This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people (unless we say they're voting D in which cause it is a hivemind) after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away. Yeah, I wonder why this thread treats everyone right of center as a hivemind. It couldn't at all be that Republicans are constantly shifting goalposts, claiming that they didn't say what they said, and then toeing the party line when the loving whackadoodles on the internet start lambasting them on their FB pages. Couldn't be that challenging the party orthodoxy is a quick way to end up with a Not to mention that there are clearly examples of Republicans who obviously aren't part of that (Rob Portman, the Nevada GOP, uhh ... there are probably a few more I guess). Oh wait Amergin lol For fucks sake, whoever allowed him to be videoed doing this should be shitcanned because holy gently caress. It's like that episode of The Office where Michael brings out his 2.5lb dumbbells because he's going for "tone not bulk." BUSH 2112 fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:29 |
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BUSH 2112 posted:
I bench 325 and shoulder lifts like that with anything higher than 10/15 pounds are very difficult for me. Obama could be filmed preacher curling 100lb barbells and people would still find a way to bitch.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:46 |
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VitalSigns posted:Hmmm so when it's white people, we single out the homophobes and call them assholes without drawing conclusions about white people in general. If a majority of white Americans favor same-sex marriage and a majority of black Americans don't, then sure. Also again, factor in recent history here. I could draw conclusions about white people in general given their history of discrimination and I wouldn't be surprised by the result, but again the fact that the black community is by-and-large against gay marriage is surprising, especially their bristling when you try to make the case that LGBTQ equality is a "civil rights" issue. If you had a Republican politician who was progressive and agreed with Democrats in every way EXCEPT wanting to keep marriage hetero I bet you the black vote would largely flock to that ticket, everything else being equal.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:52 |
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Eh, this isn't about the "black community" as much as it is about "socially conservative black churches". It's a church thing. Religion.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:57 |
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You really can't shut up about black people can you Amergin.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:57 |
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Man, you'd really think Amergin would have learned by now not to try to start discussions of racial issues in this thread. (Can we agree that whenever one starts to criticize a racial minority as a bloc for actions you think their "community" should or should not have taken, you are being racist?)
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:58 |
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Amergin posted:If a majority of white Americans favor same-sex marriage and a majority of black Americans don't, then sure. I'm pretty sure Obama singlehandedly dragged the black community into that position over like a 2 month period. Those polls are striking.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 20:58 |
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anonumos posted:Eh, this isn't about the "black community" as much as it is about "socially conservative black churches". It's a church thing. Religion. I agree (really it's a complex issue in general) but if you look at the Pew link I posted above, white mainline Protestants are more in favor of gay marriage than black Protestants. HOWEVER, white Evangelical Protestants are at the bottom, so in that dataset there seems to be some fishy definition of religion-race pairing. I'd be interested to see a black mainline-Evangelical Protestant split. EDIT: loquacius posted:Man, you'd really think Amergin would have learned by now not to try to start discussions of racial issues in this thread. Why not? I'm having fun here. poo poo I wasn't even the one who started it. Amergin fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:00 |
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loquacius posted:Man, you'd really think Amergin would have learned by now not to try to start discussions of racial issues in this thread. Amergin posted:Why not? I'm having fun here. Cyrus Ching posted:I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig; you get dirty and besides the pig likes it.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:11 |
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"70% of blacks voted for prop 8!" has been repeated a zillion times by both people like Dan Savage along with the anti-gay folks but it's probably not accurate. http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Black-support-for-Prop-8-called-exaggeration-3177138.php quote:Exit polls found that 70 percent of black voters backed Prop. 8 on Nov. 4, even as they overwhelmingly supported Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, who opposed the same-sex marriage ban. Voting a few percentage points higher than whites on prop 8 hardly justifies blaming blacks for prop 8 (it was also statistically shown that no matter how they voted it would have passed) nor does it even justify saying that blacks are particularly more homophobic than whites. It's also worth noting that in terms of public opinion on gay rights 2008 is basically ancient history now, if they did a re-vote of prop 8 based on those numbers it's pretty likely that blacks as a group would vote it down.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:12 |
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DemeaninDemon posted:Leave it to Paul Ryan to bitch about someone's workout face. Yeah if you think someone looking awkward while lifting weights is funny enough to point out, you're pretty much just announcing to everyone that you've never worked out in your life. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 4, 2014 |
# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:21 |
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MaxxBot posted:"70% of blacks voted for prop 8!" has been repeated a zillion times by both people like Dan Savage along with the anti-gay folks but it's probably not accurate. Yeah, the exit polls were inaccurate as gently caress. Blacks could have voted for Prop 8 at the same ratio as whites and it still would have passed; I think they would've had to vote ~65% against to defeat Prop 8. What I'm saying is that if you think black voters have disproportionate blame for Prop 8, then you might be a racist fucker.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:25 |
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Amergin posted:White people also haven't been through civil rights movements to try and attain equality only to then turn around and gently caress over some other group's attempt at equality. We're at the point where a decent amount of the black community didn't live through civil rights now. Someone born just when the CRA passed would be fifty now.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:32 |
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Shageletic posted:Don't y'all have the worst rates for pedestrian hit and runs, drunk driving deaths, and a whole heap of other awful automobile benchmarks? Doesn't seem like anyone has too good a handle on traffic over there. Which shouldn't be surprising, considering the basic fact that nobody has anything INVESTED in this state. Nobody comes here planning to stay here, or if they do, it's because there is something very seriously wrong with them. So why should anyone really care about schools or roads or anyone else, for that matter? Everyone here, from the 80-to-dead crowd to the snowbirds to the poor job-seekers, pretty much everyone is trying to get something out of Florida and then leave. Dying is one form of leaving. I don't know if anyone can confirm, but I was warned about the "Florida Vortex", where once you've been here for a year or two, you can never escape. So, you have a shithole where everyone hates each other, nobody has any reason to care about anything long-term, and everybody's trying to rip off everyone else. Yes, that's a definite recipe for piss-poor driving, bad schools, and ridiculously uneven application of the law. This loving state MAKES people crazy. I don't have to mention Trayvon and Zimmerman to prove anything about the inequality under law here: I'll just take your point about traffic, and remind you that this town exists: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/us/hampton-florida-corruption/ It's a state of extremes, and I believe it's where the rest of the nation is currently headed too. Florida just got there first.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 21:45 |
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Source
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 22:01 |
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The "Welcome Back Bowe" ceremony planned by Bowe Bergdahl's hometown has been canceled, citing public safety concerns. If you follow the Freep thread, the other day they were talking about calling to raise hell/threaten to get the ceremony shut down.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 22:03 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:53 |
BUSH 2112 posted:Yeah, I wonder why this thread treats everyone right of center as a hivemind. It couldn't at all be that Republicans are constantly shifting goalposts, claiming that they didn't say what they said, and then toeing the party line when the loving whackadoodles on the internet start lambasting them on their FB pages. Couldn't be that challenging the party orthodoxy is a quick way to end up with a I know exactly what all my conservative co-workers and relatives are going to say about an issue before they even bring it up by reading these threads. Modern conservatism is a total hive mind where ideas are propagated out from the top to be told by their media and then the troopers on the ground fester in it with each other until whatever the lie becomes reality. I have no reservations about saying that Republican voters think in lockstep for the vast majority of their political opinions. The current "POW is a traitor" coming form people that previously were crying for his safe return is the latest example.
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# ? Jun 4, 2014 22:06 |