1337JiveTurkey posted:

The idea that LGBT Americans are well off DINKs is popular but not really true. They're the ones that the media loves to talk about but don't make up a larger proportion of the demographic than their straight counterparts and the evidence points to them making up a smaller proportion in reality. Employment discrimination is still legal in many states and lesbians get hit by wage discrimination twice as hard. Meanwhile they're definitely higher than average as far as things like homeless young adults go. Until Windsor, same sex married couples still had to pay taxes on their spouses' health insurance or each maintain their own separate insurance policies. That was an enormous financial hardship on my aunts who have a generous healthcare plan from one's union and a fixed pension.

The false perception is harmful because it can lead people to think of marriage equality as a ploy by rich gay white men to get the privileges of rich straight white men. For every person who might benefit from not paying estate taxes on their spouse's estate before paying again on the remainder when they die, there's far, far more who need Social Security survivor's benefits to make ends meet. The ones who just care about the estate taxes could just lobby for zero estate taxes period and not pay them either time.

SirKibbles posted:

What makes this poo poo worse is it was a rumor started by an anti gay marriage group and a lot of gay people didn't even go hmm this seems shady and oddly timed. Just jumped to loving black people right away.

forbidden lesbian posted:

The gently caress is a DINK

forbidden lesbian posted:

The gently caress is a DINK

Paul MaudDib posted:

I can't listen right now, but pretty sure it would be this one: http://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/108

If I remember, it was along the lines of "it's not fair to lay this entirely at the feet of black people, since plenty of white people voted for prop 8 too, BUT black people did vote for prop 8 in disproportionate numbers and it WAS a record turnout of black people. It's entirely possible that in an alternate universe where black people hadn't turned out so hard that it wouldn't have gotten over the top. So it's not entirely in the laps of black people, but they share a lot of the blame for this passing".

Shageletic posted:

And we should go after white people due to how Mormons voted. So stupid.

Paul MaudDib posted:

I can't listen right now, but pretty sure it would be this one: http://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/108

If I remember, it was along the lines of "it's not fair to lay this entirely at the feet of black people, since plenty of white people voted for prop 8 too, BUT black people did vote for prop 8 in disproportionate numbers and it WAS a record turnout of black people. It's entirely possible that in an alternate universe where black people hadn't turned out so hard that it wouldn't have gotten over the top. So it's not entirely in the laps of black people, but they share a lot of the blame for this passing".

quote:

I’m not sure what to do with this. I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president. I wept last night. I wept reading the papers this morning. But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual.

quote:

Overnight Wednesday, photographs and a video emerged on a Polish tabloid that showed the commander-in-chief lifting weights, doing squats, and using an elliptical machine. In the images his face contorts as he exerts from his workout.

Munkeymon posted:

Christ, left-wing infighting is so sometimes.

MaxxBot posted:

Exactly, virtually everything that is commonly believed about LGBT demography is false. The belief is that they're all rich, white men when in reality if you had to make a ridiculous generalization like that they're really all poor, black women.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/special-report-adults-identify-lgbt.aspx

Munkeymon posted:

No, we should call out a group pf people for, after fighting for their own civil rights within living memory, when confronted with a (partially overlapping!) group that also wants civil rights, tells them to get hosed because that's rank goddamn hypocrisy.

VitalSigns posted:

Do keep in mind that there's an important distinction between calling out anti-equality black people as hypocrites, and treating black people as a hivemind just because a majority voted a certain way.

If Dan Savage strayed into "If only blacks didn't have the vote, this might not have happened" then it's definitely the latter.

Shageletic posted:

And we should go after white people due to how Mormons voted. So stupid.

quote:

Indeed, Proposition 8 promoters worked closely with black churches across the state, encouraging ministers to deliver sermons in favor of the ban.

"What the church does is give that perspective that this is a sacred issue as well as a social issue," said Derek McCoy, African American outreach director for the Protect Marriage Campaign. "The reason I feel they came out so strong on the issue is one, for them, it's not a civil rights issue, it's a marriage issue. It's about marriage being between a man and a woman and it doesn't cut into the civil rights issue, about equality.

"The gay community was never considered a third of a person."

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Somewhere in America, Paul Ryan begins to howl with indignation:


Yet again the liberal media shows its true colors, by not showing anything cringe-worthy of Obama, when they lept at running the bro-shots of Representative Ryan!


Working men of all nations, unite! *immediately fractures into a dozen squabbling factions*

zoux posted:

VitalSigns posted:

Do keep in mind that there's an important distinction between calling out anti-equality black people as hypocrites, and treating black people as a hivemind just because a majority voted a certain way.

If Dan Savage strayed into "If only blacks didn't have the vote, this might not have happened" then it's definitely the latter.

Amergin posted:

This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people (unless we say they're voting D in which cause it is a hivemind) after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away.

EDIT: And I don't think he's saying "If blacks didn't have the vote," he's saying "If black people weren't so loving hypocritical maybe it wouldn't have passed."

Fried Chicken posted:

Yo, read this: The Republican Case Against Republican Economics

Personally I'm with Chait, whose linked stuff makes the point that the GOP is voting against the policies the reformers are saying must be adopted. But the points of dissent and demographic information are important

Amergin posted:

This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people

quote:

after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Working men of all nations, unite! *immediately fractures into a dozen squabbling factions*

Stultus Maximus posted:

Being black is a result of having one or more parents being black and necessarily includes a) being black and b) that's it.
Being conservative, or affiliated with any party of ideology, is the result of choosing to affiliate yourself with an ideology and necessarily includes having a set of beliefs or behaviors that are consistent with that ideology.

Comparing the two is a result of being a goddamn moron.

VitalSigns posted:

gently caress you. Black people didn't take away my rights. A fuckton of white people voted the same way, it's not the fault of black people because you've decided that it's their few votes that came in last and tipped the scale rather than any other selection of Yes voters you please. Blaming one of the most powerless and excluded minorities in America for oppression is absurd.

Amergin posted:

Thinking every conservative agrees with every policy and ideological principle of every other conservative, I would say, is also pretty moronic.

EDIT: Well, it's more intellectually lazy than moronic I suppose.

Amergin posted:

White people aren't hypocritical when they're homophobic, they're just assholes.

Amergin posted:

said group has voted to take specifically his rights away.

EDIT: And I don't think he's saying "If blacks didn't have the vote," he's saying "If black people weren't so loving hypocritical maybe it wouldn't have passed."

Amergin posted:

This entire thread treats every person right-of-center in their political spectrum as a hivemind but heaven forbid someone does the same thing to black people (unless we say they're voting D in which cause it is a hivemind) after said group has voted to take specifically his rights away.

EDIT: And I don't think he's saying "If blacks didn't have the vote," he's saying "If black people weren't so loving hypocritical maybe it wouldn't have passed."

zoux posted:

BUSH 2112 posted:

For fucks sake, whoever allowed him to be videoed doing this should be shitcanned because holy gently caress. It's like that episode of The Office where Michael brings out his 2.5lb dumbbells because he's going for "tone not bulk."

VitalSigns posted:

Hmmm so when it's white people, we single out the homophobes and call them assholes without drawing conclusions about white people in general.

But when it's black people, suddenly it's "black people are loving hypocritical" and they got together as "a group" to vote to take away gay rights.

Amergin posted:

If a majority of white Americans favor same-sex marriage and a majority of black Americans don't, then sure.

Also again, factor in recent history here. I could draw conclusions about white people in general given their history of discrimination and I wouldn't be surprised by the result, but again the fact that black people
the black community
is by-and-large against gay marriage is surprising, especially their bristling when you try to make the case that LGBTQ equality is a "civil rights" issue.

If you had a Republican politician who was progressive and agreed with Democrats in every way EXCEPT wanting to keep marriage hetero I bet you the black vote would largely flock to that ticket, everything else being equal.

anonumos posted:

Eh, this isn't about the "black community" as much as it is about "socially conservative black churches". It's a church thing. Religion.

loquacius posted:

Man, you'd really think Amergin would have learned by now not to try to start discussions of racial issues in this thread.

loquacius posted:

Man, you'd really think Amergin would have learned by now not to try to start discussions of racial issues in this thread.

Amergin posted:

Why not? I'm having fun here.

Cyrus Ching posted:

I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig; you get dirty and besides the pig likes it.

quote:

Exit polls found that 70 percent of black voters backed Prop. 8 on Nov. 4, even as they overwhelmingly supported Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, who opposed the same-sex marriage ban.

But an analysis of precinct-level voting data on Prop. 8 from Alameda, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego and San Francisco counties, which are home to nearly two-thirds of California's black voters, suggested that African American support for Prop. 8 was more likely about 58 percent.

DemeaninDemon posted:

Leave it to Paul Ryan to bitch about someone's workout face.

Besides, shoulder lifts like that one are flipping hard and you're doing it wrong if you don't have that face.

MaxxBot posted:

"70% of blacks voted for prop 8!" has been repeated a zillion times by both people like Dan Savage along with the anti-gay folks but it's probably not accurate.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Black-support-for-Prop-8-called-exaggeration-3177138.php


Voting a few percentage points higher than whites on prop 8 hardly justifies blaming blacks for prop 8 (it was also statistically shown that no matter how they voted it would have passed) nor does it even justify saying that blacks are particularly more homophobic than whites. It's also worth noting that in terms of public opinion on gay rights 2008 is basically ancient history now, if they did a re-vote of prop 8 based on those numbers it's pretty likely that blacks as a group would vote it down.

Amergin posted:

White people also haven't been through civil rights movements to try and attain equality only to then turn around and gently caress over some other group's attempt at equality.

White people aren't hypocritical when they're homophobic, they're just assholes.

Shageletic posted:

Don't y'all have the worst rates for pedestrian hit and runs, drunk driving deaths, and a whole heap of other awful automobile benchmarks? Doesn't seem like anyone has too good a handle on traffic over there.

BUSH 2112 posted:

Yeah, I wonder why this thread treats everyone right of center as a hivemind. It couldn't at all be that Republicans are constantly shifting goalposts, claiming that they didn't say what they said, and then toeing the party line when the loving whackadoodles on the internet start lambasting them on their FB pages. Couldn't be that challenging the party orthodoxy is a quick way to end up with a Koch Bros. Tea Party primary challenger with millions of dollars of dark money funding a fuckload of free speech.

Not to mention that there are clearly examples of Republicans who obviously aren't part of that (Rob Portman, the Nevada GOP, uhh ... there are probably a few more I guess).

Oh wait Amergin lol


For fucks sake, whoever allowed him to be videoed doing this should be shitcanned because holy gently caress. It's like that episode of The Office where Michael brings out his 2.5lb dumbbells because he's going for "tone not bulk."