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b0lt posted:Scala is not strong enough Also, I've briefly read about dynamics but have never used them. In your example, how would you use applyDynamic? Within the body of Main, would you do something like: code:
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Jun 4, 2014 17:27
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b0lt posted:Scala is not strong enough Oh god what have you done.
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Jun 4, 2014 17:40
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One thing I've learned working with other programmers is that you don't have to know how to use a computer to program one.
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Jun 4, 2014 17:46
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Dr. Stab posted:One thing I've learned working with other programmers is that you don't have to know how to use a computer to program one. I don't do hardware.
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Jun 4, 2014 17:47
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Dr. Stab posted:One thing I've learned working with other programmers is that you don't have to know how to use a computer to program one. What do you mean I can't load the entire database into memory before my java application does anything?
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Jun 4, 2014 18:29
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Mogomra posted:What do you mean I can't load the entire database into memory before my java application does anything? Earlier this year I inherited an application that cached the entire database in memory on startup for some ill-conceived notion of performance. Because iterating over that entire collection in memory will definitely be faster than the indexed database. Oh yeah, and after any database writes he would refresh the whole thing.
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Jun 4, 2014 19:06
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Mogomra posted:What do you mean I can't load the entire database into memory before my java application does anything? I think that some people have a hard time mixing database languages with other languages for some reason. Here are just a few of the things that my coworkers do while trying to use MySQL in Python: 1) Build an unsafe query from user input by using Python string operations. Not only does this make us vulnerable to SQL injections (accidental or otherwise), but it's actually more difficult to code this way than it is to just pass arguments directly to the cursor, which will sanitize and properly format your arguments for you. 2) Set up a loop in Python and execute a query in each iteration instead of executing a single query and iterating over the results 3) Fetch every row from a table with MySQL, loop over the results in Python and check conditions by indexing into each column At least I haven't seen any "let's load the entire database into memory" shenanigans
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Jun 4, 2014 19:06
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Thankfully I didn't actually have to work on it, but the people who did had some really cool stories. The developer who wrote the program got fired a week or two earlier for actually trying to sabotage our other software. Basically, management was asking questions like, "Hey, this was working before, what did you fuckwits do to break it?" It turned out they had just reached the tipping point where the amount of data being cached at the beginning was too much for the JRE and/or Windows to handle. Pretty much unrelated, but upon further inspection of the code, they found a few paragraphs long comment going over the differences between a "load," an "rear end load," and a "gently caress load" with respect to shipping items in boxes. Only in the comment he referred to boxes as butts. So a gently caress load was way to big to fit in your rear end, but an rear end load barely fit in your rear end. I'd swear I saved a copy of the comment somewhere, but I can't find it. 
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Jun 4, 2014 19:33
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Mogomra posted:Thankfully I didn't actually have to work on it, but the people who did had some really cool stories. The developer who wrote the program got fired a week or two earlier for actually trying to sabotage our other software. That's what revision history is for!
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Jun 4, 2014 19:37
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Hahaha, we didn't have any source control until a week or so before I got hired. This "program" had been in production for something like 3 years. Even after they got poo poo in an SVN repo, this other developer went out of his way to keep his work out of it because he mostly worked on separate projects at the time. We had some nice spaghetti-code-php website that would randomly have SQL to truncate tables in places that didn't have any reason to access the db anyway. It was just a huge mess...
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Jun 4, 2014 19:42
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I really don't get people that don't like using SCM. It makes your life so much easier in so many ways.
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Jun 4, 2014 21:11
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revmoo posted:I really don't get people that don't like using SCM. It makes your life so much easier in so many ways. I don't like having to learn new things when the current method has worked so well* up to now. * Except for all those horrible horrible catastrophes.
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Jun 5, 2014 08:02
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Contra Duck posted:I don't like having to learn new things when the current method has worked so well* up to now. In the case above it sounds more line "I don't want any accountability for any bugs I've caused. And I want plausible deniability that I did cause them"
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Jun 5, 2014 15:39
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Hughlander posted:In the case above it sounds more line "I don't want any accountability for any bugs I've caused. And I want plausible deniability that I did cause them" Yeah, this exactly the case for that dev with the crazy Java applications. That and he pretty much ran the software/web department of the company for many years, had no education other than 2 years of game development at community college, and had no interest in teaching himself how to do any of the things that were expected of him. He didn't want people to know that he pretty much sat at his desk all day doing nothing, because he had no clue how to move forward on any of his projects. He was pretty good at tricking the owner into thinking he was smart though, so there's that I guess. 
Mogomra fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 15:47
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Quick one from a global definitions file on a legacy project. So close.C++ code:
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Jun 5, 2014 21:21
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The U clearly stands for ununsigned.
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Jun 5, 2014 21:35
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Trying to set up branching on a project that's never had branch-based feature management before and this involves changing the directory structure a bitquote:Unable to perform operation on $/Services/Service/Main. The item $/Services/Service/img/was-never-even-committed.jpg is locked in workspace NEWGUY;New Guy. Locking version control  New Guy
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Jun 5, 2014 22:26
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Munkeymon posted:Trying to set up branching on a project that's never had branch-based feature management before and this involves changing the directory structure a bit Use local workspaces, problem solved. If you're using a local workspace you don't even have the option to put an exclusive checkout on a file.
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Jun 5, 2014 22:34
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How about if the horror is not the code but the developer? Met a new developer on my project today. She claims to have a CS degree. She didn't know what version control, unit testing, or big O notation were. When asked if she had ever used version control before, she said "Yes, I've used dropbox."  Also didn't know what a UNIX shell was and has never used python or perl or ruby or really anything other than C. Oh but she claims to have experience writing shell scripts in bash despite having no idea how to use bash (i.e. we had to tell her how to use flags with commands and how to ctrl+c a runaway process).Give it some time and I'm sure she will generate some good content for this thread.
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Jun 5, 2014 22:50
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lazer_chicken posted:How about if the horror is not the code but the developer? The horror is your hiring process.
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Jun 5, 2014 22:54
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Ithaqua posted:The horror is your hiring process. Government job, so yeah. Our HR is abysmally bad.
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Jun 5, 2014 22:58
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lazer_chicken posted:Met a new developer on my project today. She claims to have a CS degree. She didn't know what version control, unit testing, or big O notation were. Is she a fresh graduate? Why do you think a university Computer Science program should waste time teaching version control or unit testing? The problem is your hiring process, unless she's an intern or something like that.
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Jun 5, 2014 22:59
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Deus Rex posted:Is she a fresh graduate? Why do you think a university Computer Science program should waste time teaching version control or unit testing? The problem is your hiring process, unless she's an intern or something like that. Because it's a skill set legitimately useful to both academic CS work and software development in private industry? People bemoan the state of programming practices in academia, so that time would not be wasted.
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Jun 5, 2014 23:06
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Deus Rex posted:Is she a fresh graduate? Why do you think a university Computer Science program should waste time teaching version control or unit testing? The problem is your hiring process, unless she's an intern or something like that. Even if she's a fresh graduate, what the hell kind of CS program doesn't teach big O notation?
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Jun 5, 2014 23:11
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Yeah, it's somewhat excusable for a fresh CS graduate to not know much about tooling, but if they also don't know anything about complexity analysis what the hell did they learn?
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Jun 5, 2014 23:29
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Internet Janitor posted:Yeah, it's somewhat excusable for a fresh CS graduate to not know much about tooling, but if they also don't know anything about complexity analysis what the hell did they learn? I'm guessing "How to lie on a resume."
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Jun 5, 2014 23:30
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Deus Rex posted:Is she a fresh graduate? Why do you think a university Computer Science program should waste time teaching version control or unit testing? The problem is your hiring process, unless she's an intern or something like that. I learned literally everything he mentioned through University courses, most of them being required courses to take. (University of Toronto, St. George campus if you're wondering).
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Jun 6, 2014 00:08
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Deus Rex posted:Why do you think a university Computer Science program should waste time teaching version control or unit testing? Truth is, there's an expectation that a CS degree includes an element of practice (even what I'd call engineering) where some time is spent covering (implementations of CS in modern) computer systems. Otherwise fresh graduates would end up rehashing the past 40 years of computer systems and otherwise be unemployable. So yeah, I'd expect a fresh CS grad to be aware of the concept of version control, if not be familiar with at least one system and possibly even have some high-level understanding of such a system's implementation. Unit testing is also a very important practice in programming, and big-O is a thing in theoretical computer science. Not being familiar with any of them result in "well, what the hell did you learn?" Edit: It's like a chemistry major being completely unfamiliar with the operation of a chem lab and not being able to perform a titration.
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Jun 6, 2014 00:14
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Yeah, even at an obscure state college (Northern Arizona) we learned quite a bit of practical skills and the final project was team-based implementation for a client. Either the program was really poor or just let her slide a few more times than they should, but not being at least aware of those tools shouldn't be as common as it seems to be.
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Jun 6, 2014 00:18
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Well, I've helped to somehow manage to bring a pull request to the point where attempting to load it causes GitHub to throw 500s. The pull request in question was for gerrit CI integration as part of a gradual migration from GitHub to gerrit
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Jun 6, 2014 00:39
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ExcessBLarg! posted:So yeah, I'd expect a fresh CS grad to be aware of the concept of version control I've had personal code on github since middle school, how the gently caress does anyone make it through undergrad without using some form of VCS at least once?
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Jun 6, 2014 00:54
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Biowarfare posted:I've had personal code on github since middle school, how the gently caress does anyone make it through undergrad without using some form of VCS at least once? Never do a team project? Try it once and have an awful experience figuring out some bullshit command line interface, then vow never to return? Don't intern anywhere competent? Tons of useful software got and gets written without version control. Not my cup of tea but it's hardly a requirement.
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Jun 6, 2014 00:58
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Biowarfare posted:I've had personal code on github since middle school, how the gently caress does anyone make it through undergrad without using some form of VCS at least once? You're young. Github has only been around for about 6 years, so I think you're taking for granted just how easy it is to connect with other developers and find out about new things, and how much more user-friendly everything is nowadays. I didn't use source control at all during my days as an undergrad. I spent a few hours trying to get CVS working at one point, then said "gently caress it" and went back to playing Diablo 2.
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Jun 6, 2014 01:01
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Biowarfare posted:I've had personal code on github since middle school, how the gently caress does anyone make it through undergrad without using some form of VCS at least once? As stated above, most people seem content with using Dropbox as a VCS...even for team projects...I've "enlightened" plenty of undergrad and master students by showing them the combo of Source Tree + bitbucket. Hell, you don't even have to touch the git CLI for 95% of the things that a couple of people, working as a team on a single thing would wanna do. To be fair, most Universities do not introduce people to source control early enough (or at all) and source control is one of those things that does not seem particularly impressive to the untrained person, until they are actually FORCED to use it somehow...
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Jun 6, 2014 01:03
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Ithaqua posted:You're young. Github has only been around for about 6 years, so I think you're taking for granted just how easy it is to connect with other developers and find out about new things, and how much more user-friendly everything is nowadays. I didn't use source control at all during my days as an undergrad. I spent a few hours trying to get CVS working at one point, then said "gently caress it" and went back to playing Diablo 2. Yeah, except we're talking about something that happened now, not in the old days.
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Jun 6, 2014 01:10
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shodanjr_gr posted:To be fair, most Universities do not introduce people to source control early enough (or at all) and source control is one of those things that does not seem particularly impressive to the untrained person, until they are actually FORCED to use it somehow... Sitting everyone down in Programming 101 and saying "alright, in three weeks we'll start coding but today, here's how we download SourceTree..." would turn a lot of people off the subject entirely. Though Programming 101 seems to be doing a great job at turning a lot of people off as is, so who knows.
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Jun 6, 2014 01:16
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pokeyman posted:Sitting everyone down in Programming 101 and saying "alright, in three weeks we'll start coding but today, here's how we download SourceTree..." would turn a lot of people off the subject entirely. It doesn't have to be a CSE-101 level skill set. You can do it further down the line, in the second or third year. Heck, by that point tons of students will have used Dropbox as their CVS on a group project and experienced the relevant horrors. THEN you introduce them to proper DCVS, they appreciate its benefits and convert themselves and all of their friends.
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Jun 6, 2014 01:30
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Steve French posted:Well, I've helped to somehow manage to bring a pull request to the point where attempting to load it causes GitHub to throw 500s. Github is fighting back your attempt to leave it.
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Jun 6, 2014 02:42
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Biowarfare posted:I've had personal code on github since middle school, how the gently caress does anyone make it through undergrad without using some form of VCS at least once? It's pretty easy in a lot majors that require the use of computers for computation, especially the more science-centric ones. I'm a physicist and didn't encounter real version control software until grad school, and that was probably only because I was working on a project that had computer engineers on the team (plenty of the professors basically just used Dropbox to keep things backed up... and that's it)
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Jun 6, 2014 03:36
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Speaking of teaching version control in academia, has anyone had experience using something like GitHub or BitBucket to aggregate simple homework submissions from students? I could have sworn I read about someone here a few years ago doing some kind of CS degree where they had to submit like that over the network. It wasn't on the web, though. I believe the person said it was local to the university network, and that the homework/projects they were doing were all done through that university dev environment. We did a version of this for one of my media training courses back when I was in university. For our capstone video/audio engineering project we had to keep a diary on Blogger or something, and part of that was so the prof could easily see everyone's progress via RSS, students could read each other's progress, discuss solutions to technical problems with each other, and in the process they'd get used to blog WYSIWYG and simple web markup. This was probably 7-8 years ago at this point, and so BLOGGING was kind of a trendy thing a lot of the professors were trying to integrate. Couldn't teaching version control be kind of like that for some CS programs? I guess the split between the science portion and the software development portion is probably the thing that keeps that from happening, unfortunately.
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Jun 6, 2014 04:36
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