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What makes me the most upset is the poo poo talking about Bergdahl's dad. It seems like the guy was dealing with his son's situation as best he could and dicks like Hannity and Medved want to act like he hates America etc. These are the facts that are getting spun. Wall Street Journal posted:HAILEY, Idaho—Until his son was taken captive by the Taliban in 2009, Bob Bergdahl was known in this mountain town as an easy-going, cheerful UPS driver, the sort who would beep the horn on his truck simply to delight preschool children.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:31
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Yeah the guys that have never seen a battleground talking about traitors and cowards that should be left to rot are the worst scum. I'm not of the opinion that military people have opinions that are worth more than others (unless their specific expertise is relevant) but sending people to die and then trashing them from the safety of your mansion is undebatable evil.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:33
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For comedy relief: Medved last night when referring to the father learning Pashto was saying "pasht...pas...whatever! I'M A RED BLOODED AMERICAN HOW AM I EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SAY THESE WORDS! WHY DO I HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THESE WORTHLESS LANGUAGES!!!!"
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Jun 6, 2014 16:40
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Miltank posted:Any good books on the Bay of Pigs invasion? American Tabloid by James Ellroy
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Jun 6, 2014 16:43
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:For comedy relief: America.txt
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Jun 6, 2014 16:43
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And suddenly I am reminded of Battlefield Vietnam. http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-288169.html
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Jun 6, 2014 16:50
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Bergdalzi
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Jun 6, 2014 17:27
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VitalSigns posted:I wonder if the next time a US Soldier is captured, the interrogators are going to think to look up all the poo poo right-wing politicians and pundits are saying about Bergdahl as inspiration for what to tell their new captive that his government is saying about him back home. There are volumes of policy papers written about this exact phenomena. Captured soldiers with sensitive information must resist torture, unedited hatred coming from your own countrypeople will break most people almost immediately. Hell, I was kidnapped and tortured by Americans and was ready to hang myself, found out a couple ways I could pick locks and jump out the window if it got too hard. It's staggering to imagine: you're in the hands of people who are mistreating you, starving you, you don't know them. You don't speak their language, they hate you, may kill you at any moment. Your only hope is the UNCLE SAM STARS AND BARS EXPRESS shooting all of the bastards in the head and yanking you out of there. They show you a TV news actor mention you by name, saying you shouldn't be rescued. Astonishing. This is the country where it's acceptable to broadcast propaganda about how waterboarding isn't torture.
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Jun 6, 2014 17:31
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Traveller posted:I can't tell if this a fake or not: Holy poo poo, I dug through the Limbaugh Letter archives....     and my favorite 
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Jun 6, 2014 18:40
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That's really walking the line between good and bad photoshopping.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:43
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I had to go rewatch that Attack on Obama spoof from a year ago or so when I saw Rush Jaegar over there. Though I swear it's like they also trying to capitalize on Godzilla with that. Edit, posting from phone. KomradeX fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 18:43
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Just make sure I don't look fat.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:47
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Isn't that design on the book's cover the Dark Mark from Harry Potter?
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Jun 6, 2014 18:49
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Some sobering facts about the reality of the Gitmo detainees and the complete and utter dishonesty going on among the right wingers attacking Obama over the prisoner swap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Yb76QWPlg Sorry for the gross beardo faces in the thumbnail though. I feel like Isalmic radicalism is basically just neckbeardism codified sometimes. Anyway, more sobering facts here from a 2012 article by one of the people in this video: http://www.eurasiareview.com/06062014-missing-point-guantanamo-taliban-prisoner-swap-release-bowe-bergdahl-oped/ Spacedad fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 19:20
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KomradeX posted:I had to go rewatch that Attack on Obama spoof from a year ago or so when I was Rush Jaegar over there. Though I swear it's like they also trying to capitalize on Godzilla with that Godzilla is the hero of the new movie. He saves the city, and humanity, from dangerous monsters, albeit in an ungraceful manner. A good photoshop.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:21
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Mr Interweb posted:So Jake Tapper asked McCain about his supposed flip flop on the negotiations with the taliban: McCain didn't really flip flop though. Both times he was asked by AC he specifically said he'd be open to it if the details were right. He said he didn't know the details, and his opposition to it now appears to be those details (and in this case who the men are is the details he objects to). I'm not defending the guy but the article is clearly glossing over the details of the story. GutBomb fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 19:41
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BBJoey posted:I think you'll find that cancer has already been cured, but... Of all the pedantic strawman attacks made at Obama, I feel this is one of the most insidious since the people who were making it are the anti-science zealots who keep gutting education funding. Scientific discovery fundamentally is about building on what came before you - to make such a strawman attack you have to have to be (willfully or otherwise) completely ignorant of how science works. These people will actively choke off our ability to innovate because they don't realize how much opening up educational opportunities means to discovery. Or they do and are just hacks who only care about scoring political capital for themselves. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 19:42
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I don't know why you'd even have to go that far. There was no part of "you didn't build that" that said "so close your business/trash your invention/bquatwhever". It's sad that we even need to remind some people that their businesses don't exist in some John Galt bubble of superhumanity that sprang into existence fully formed and started enriching lives and generating money.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:53
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I don't know why you'd even have to go that far. There was no part of "you didn't build that" that said "so close your business/trash your invention/bquatwhever". It's sad that we even need to remind some people that their businesses don't exist in some John Galt bubble of superhumanity that sprang into existence fully formed and started enriching lives and generating money. Except that even in the John Galt superbubble of Rand's hackneyed fictional constructs, it wasn't really the 'innovators' who were industry captains, but the people who paid other people to develop technology or various alloys or whatever. Jerk-fiction for a creatively talentless management and executive class to pretend like they're the *real* geniuses, rather than glorified bean-counters. The 'parasites' narrative unfortunately involves stomping on the very people who could become potential innovators if afforded the opportunity to receive education and live comfortably. You choke off innovation when you stomp on the poor and middle class, because you brain-drain from a large pool of potential talent via poverty & oppression. That's really the problem in general with an ultra-wealthy aristocracy; they tend to want to keep the status quo, since they have it so good - so they don't give as much a poo poo about pushing technology and science. In fact, a lot of them will actively work AGAINST technological progress if it means cutting into their status and profits. Though there are philantropic exceptions (that prove the rule) it really is the poor and middle-class that drive improvement and innovation more than anything else. The executive class and the ultra-rich tend to be the biggest 'parasites' and speed bumps on the road to human progress in general, really. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 20:03
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VitalSigns posted:I wonder if the next time a US Soldier is captured, the interrogators are going to think to look up all the poo poo right-wing politicians and pundits are saying about Bergdahl as inspiration for what to tell their new captive that his government is saying about him back home. This, and similar, is exactly what the right wing media would screaming from the rooftops were the situation reversed. This stuff practically writes itself and I don't know, but it doessent seem like dems are taking advantage of it. Can anyone imagine what the reaction would be if a sitting democrat was saying this stuff about a US POW. There may be literal lynchings
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Jun 6, 2014 20:51
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Back in Vietnam when protesters were spitting on returning POW's it was wrong, but it's okay this time because I heard from a guy that this Bowe dude might not have a flawless service record.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:54
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Whoa, this sounds really solid:Fox News posted:U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl at one point during his captivity converted to Islam, fraternized openly with his captors and declared himself a "mujahid," or warrior for Islam, according to secret documents prepared on the basis of a purported eyewitness account and obtained by Fox News.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:55
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What's up with the pocket pool going on in this one?
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Jun 6, 2014 20:57
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Rip Testes posted:Whoa, this sounds really solid: So, uh, the only 'eye witness account' besides his we could have here are the Taliban... Fox News: We literally trust the Taliban more than our solider.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:58
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Rip Testes posted:Whoa, this sounds really solid: quote:The group [that wrote the reports] is run by Duane R. ("Dewey") Clarridge, a former senior operations officer for the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1980s best known for having been indicted for lying to Congress about his role in the tangled set of events that became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. DKos also pointed out that the report mentions a 5 day long period where Bergdahl had escaped from his captors, which I guess they decided to just keep to themselves for some reason seeing as no one tried to go get him during that time frame.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:03
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My favorite part of those Rush screens is the repeated attempt to portray him as a slim, austere looking figure rather than the bloated, pill-popping, rooster-jowled troll he really is.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:19
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Fox News just aired one of those "MILLENIALS DON'T RECOGNIZE THE SACRIFICE THAT OUR VETERANS GAVE THAT DAY! 9/11! D-DAY!"  -type things on Cavuto.They even indirectly criticized the entire generation for being "Anti-war" Ugh. Are they playing to their base or something?
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Jun 6, 2014 21:42
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He looks positively skinny in the "favored rich" picture. And that picture of his bedroom/apartment gets funnier every day. The only thing missing from that picture is HIM in a loving powdered wig and yet here we are.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:44
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GutBomb posted:McCain didn't really flip flop though. Both times he was asked by AC he specifically said he'd be open to it if the details were right. He said he didn't know the details, and his opposition to it now appears to be those details (and in this case who the men are is the details he objects to). I'm not defending the guy but the article is clearly glossing over the details of the story. Wrong, the deal he was briefed on, was these five prisoners specifically. It begs credulity to think that there just happened to be five other guys McCain was okay with and the Taliban wanted, this was the same deal as back in 2012.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:47
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FuzzySkinner posted:Ugh. Are they playing to their base or something? There's times where they aren't?
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Jun 6, 2014 22:01
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FuzzySkinner posted:Fox News just aired one of those "MILLENIALS DON'T RECOGNIZE THE SACRIFICE THAT OUR VETERANS GAVE THAT DAY! 9/11! D-DAY!" Yes? Like, yea it's stupid but if you're asking is Fox News, a very far right, neocon run, group is using war heroes as a cudgel to shame people for not being imperialist enough yea no poo poo.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:04
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FuzzySkinner posted:Fox News just aired one of those "MILLENIALS DON'T RECOGNIZE THE SACRIFICE THAT OUR VETERANS GAVE THAT DAY! 9/11! D-DAY!" Given that the Millennial generation has spent over 12 years fighting in the graveyard of empires, Cavuto and anyone else involved in that story can shove it up their rear end. They ginned up this war, and then want to pretend it never happened?
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Jun 6, 2014 22:24
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Radish posted:Yeah the guys that have never seen a battleground talking about traitors and cowards that should be left to rot are the worst scum. I'm not of the opinion that military people have opinions that are worth more than others (unless their specific expertise is relevant) but sending people to die and then trashing them from the safety of your mansion is undebatable evil. Well said. This burns my rear end too. Why is it that the most "Patriotic" pundits are either people who never served and fought (Hannity, Rush, Cheney, Bush to an extent, etc.) but it's OK to wear to Purple Heart Band Aids and smear people that actually DID serve and fight? Really chafes my rear end and I'm no hawk either but I mean god drat. The biggest thing that bugs me about this whole thing is that they're succeeding yet again in successfully framing the narrative. They're so loving great at it. Post 9-11 User posted:It's staggering to imagine: you're in the hands of people who are mistreating you, starving you, you don't know them. You don't speak their language, they hate you, may kill you at any moment. But enough about the United States.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:53
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Unzip and Attack posted:My favorite part of those Rush screens is the repeated attempt to portray him as a slim, austere looking figure rather than the bloated, pill-popping, rooster-jowled troll he really is. You said it all but I just want to reiterate that Rush is a morbidly obese disgusting fatass and looks nothing like those pictures at all. Sticking your head through one of those Mr. Universe cutouts at the beach is more realistic then that.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:57
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Back in Vietnam when protesters were spitting on returning POW's POWs flew home on military aircraft to military bases, so no soldier-hating hippies there. There isn't a single documented case of this happening anywhere, except, to quote the article about this, in Rambo. I'm with the rest of you guys on this new flip-flop. I never thought the RW could actually sink this low. People are so loving ignorant, too. It's true that the deal that was presented to McCain then was the exact same deal as now, the same five men. The POTUS knew he couldn't trust Congress with this, that's why I think he moved without informing them first. We don't know if this guy ever actually deserted, but we do know he asked a higher-up if it was ok to take his armor and weapon off base before he left. That leaves some interesting questions. And of course there's the fact that we are required to return our prisoners at "cessation of hostilies" which technically would be our exit from Afghanistan. These men were scheduled for release then regardless. I'm too tired to stay disgusted. I'm glad Obama at least stated plainly that he will never apologize for bringing a POW home.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:57
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Dr. Faustus posted:I'm glad Obama at least stated plainly that he will never apologize for bringing a POW home. Yeah. Obama owned this pretty hard and good on him for once. "Full stop" and all that. He didn't appear to be loving around and again, for once, I saw glimpses of campaign Obama in President Obama and it's about motherfucking time. Too bad he got it too late.
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Jun 6, 2014 23:02
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Hasters posted:Wrong, the deal he was briefed on, was these five prisoners specifically. It begs credulity to think that there just happened to be five other guys McCain was okay with and the Taliban wanted, this was the same deal as back in 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x9PQUBlFYs "Well at that time the proposal was that they would release Amer... uh... Taliban, some of them really hardcore, particularly 5 really hardcore Taliban leaders as a confidence building measure. Now this idea is for an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man. I would be inclined to support such a thing depending on the details" and "I would support... obviously I would have to know the details but I would support ways of bringing him home and if exchange was one of them I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider" are the quotes I'm talking about. In neither does he say "I support the exchange of these 5 hardcore Taliban prisoners to bring Bergdahl home." He says depending on the details of an exchange it's something that should be considered. Big difference. In these quotes that are in dispute he specifically mentions the 2012 "confidence building measure" having to do with these 5 men, but he's not specific about whether the prisoner exchange being discussed (that was eventually carried out) was including the same 5 men. When talking about details I'm sure he doesn't just mean the specific men but also the terms of the exchange, like are these guys being released? Put in an Afghani prison? Under constant surveillance? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0x_3UOVJaQ Nowhere in this video is his position any different than above. Above he said he'd have to know the details before supporting it. Now he knows the details. He doesn't and never did support this specific plan to get Berdahl home. God knows I am not a fan of McCain but there is plenty of actual flip-flopping going on with indisputable evidence and I don't think anyone needs to invent anything that wasn't there. GutBomb fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 23:34
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BiggerBoat posted:Well said. This burns my rear end too. Why is it that the most "Patriotic" pundits are either people who never served and fought (Hannity, Rush, Cheney, Bush to an extent, etc.) but it's OK to wear to Purple Heart Band Aids and smear people that actually DID serve and fight? Really chafes my rear end and I'm no hawk either but I mean god drat. Honestly I don't think they are that great at it. If you look at the message a child can see the holes. The problem is that their base is absolutely mindless as long as you are feeding them the red meat they crave and will have no issue or shame in having two obviously contradictory or monstrous opinions. The media is worthless and doesn't care about what they promote as long as it gets them ratings so better to just say that both sides are equal in the mud rather than do any actual leg work and on top of that they are typically actively right wing due to their owners and backers. Like even Rush isn't really a master, look at how quickly he gets crushed outside of his studio which is why he no longer does interviews. A bunch of my nerd friends and I could beat the Spanish team in soccer if all the refs were making bad calls in our favor for the entire match and the crowd and commentators were so on our side they reported our 10-1 win regardless of what happened. Of course that's equally as frustrating as if they were masterminds. 
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Jun 6, 2014 23:35
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GutBomb posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x9PQUBlFYs The McCain quote there says "They wanted to send these guys back for nothing, I say send them back in exchange for Bergdahl" translated from always-safe-politispeak. And if he knows it involves these exact 5 guys, what other details are going to dissuade him? The color of the helicopter they're taken back in? No he's not being specific but he's getting as close as a US politician ever will. The thing they SHOULD be taking issue with is the "behind their backs" part, not the actual substance of the exchange which they pretty clearly knew about ahead of time. They just didn't give whatever approval they think they were entitled to that the Admin doesn't. And frankly if we're going to limit arguments to what politicians unequivocally declare then we can shutter Debate Disco right now. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 23:43
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Intel&Sebastian posted:And frankly if we're going to limit arguments to what politicians unequivocally declare then we can shutter Debate Disco right now. I'm most definitely not saying that. I'm trying to say listen to the whole thing instead of snippets and it comes off much differently. It's like people are only hearing what they want to hear instead of listening to the whole thing when it comes specifically to the McCain situation. I've edited more into my post above to flesh out what I was trying to say.
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Jun 6, 2014 23:50
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