|
Why is NBR so bad? I'm intrigued but if it's bad just because there are dumb jobber/gimmick matches then I'm not so fussed. But if there's things going wrong with the running of the show, or otherwise it sounds like it could be worth it?
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 14:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 05:41 |
|
|
simosimo posted:Why is NBR so bad? I'm intrigued but if it's bad just because there are dumb jobber/gimmick matches then I'm not so fussed. Having never seen the entire ppv, for me it wasn't so much the wrestling as it was the product at the time. The PPV felt like peak wcw, or I should say the opposite of peak. Just about everything that was wrong with WCW at the time is on display right here on this very show. You have bad gimmicks like Judy Bagwell on a pole, which they didn't even deliver on. Terrible announcing with Mark Madden just yelling the most heelistic crap he can the entire show. Horrible characters and craptastic story lines - e.g. Nash/Goldberg feud. Hell, even David Arquette made an appearance. I have no idea why he bothered either, since the arena probably had 2000-3000 people in it. 3 Count against the Yung Dragons was a good match though, even though it had a gently caress finish. Im still not even clear on the ending of that one. Did the Dragons get the gold record or not? What was the point of having two items above the ring? If the whole purpose was to get the record contract, why was there also the gold record? To sum up the hour and a half or so that I managed to stay awake: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 14:38
|
|
|
simosimo posted:Why is NBR so bad? I'm intrigued but if it's bad just because there are dumb jobber/gimmick matches then I'm not so fussed. The story for the number 1 contender match is that Kevin Nash has announced he is going over and that Goldberg is too unprofessional to do the job.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 14:42
|
|
|
oatgan posted:The story for the number 1 contender match is that Kevin Nash has announced he is going over and that Goldberg is too unprofessional to do the job. This is all literal by the way. This is not inferred, it is not danced around, it is literally stated in exactly those terms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
And in the middle of the match, Nash goes to jackknife powerbomb Goldberg. Goldberg backs out of the move. Goldberg leaves the ring, Russo comes out to change Goldberg's mind. Commentary talks about how unprofessional Goldberg is, how this was unplanned and that Nash and Steiner will now have to improvise a new finish. Nash hits the jackknife for the finish, and Madden keeps saying how professional Steiner is for taking the move. It's incredibly insulting to watch. Daniel Bryan fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
Daniel Bryan posted:And in the middle of the match, Nash goes to jackknife powerbomb Goldberg. Goldberg backs out of the move. Goldberg leaves the ring, Russo comes out to change Goldberg's mind. Commentary talks about how unprofessional Goldberg is, how this was unplanned and that Nash and the Steiner will now have to improvise a new finish. So is the part you find insulting the commentary breaking kayfabe or whatever, or the fact that Goldberg did what he did?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Tyson Tomko posted:So is the part you find insulting the commentary breaking kayfabe or whatever, or the fact that Goldberg did what he did? ITS ALL A WORK. So, all of it. Worked shoots are all loving garbage and never not insulting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
I believe Russo booked Goldberg into a match with someone the next night on Nitro and said something along the lines of "And unlike last night at New Blood Rising, there will be NO SCRIPT!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Ok I was reading that wrong then. I agree 100% and that poo poo is beyond offensive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
I love that in 2014 someone assumed that all of that was an actual shoot, for the reason I can only hope/assume being that the alternative sounds too stupid to be real.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 19:59
|
|
|
Felony posted:3 Count against the Yung Dragons was a good match though, even though it had a gently caress finish. Im still not even clear on the ending of that one. Did the Dragons get the gold record or not? What was the point of having two items above the ring? If the whole purpose was to get the record contract, why was there also the gold record? From the way the commentary team talked about it before the match, I got the impression that Yung Dragons wanted 3 Count to no longer have a record contract, so they had to pull that down to win. And, for some reason, having both of them going after one object made far too much sense, so 3 Count had to go after the gold record. Of course, the booking of the match doesn't really bear that out, but we are talking about a company that had pinfalls in a first blood match here, so who the gently caress knows. They probably didn't even know or care. Daniel Bryan posted:ITS ALL A WORK. So, all of it. Worked shoots are all loving garbage and never not insulting. Bischoff explained it once in a DVD or his book or something that he wanted people to be watching segments of the show and thinking "I know this is supposed to be fake, but that wasn't supposed to happen!" Which is fine in theory until you remember that, even if the viewer buys into your "shoot," you're just enforcing in their mind that EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE SHOW IS FAKE BULLSHIT. Comparatively, using "shoot" elements as the basis for a work seems to work marvelously. Punk's pipebomb promo was terrific because it addressed real life issues he had but did it in such a way that everything he said had a kayfabe context and none of it specifically exposed the business. Post-Montreal, fans all thought Vince was a gigantic scumbag anyway, so let's make him heel and run with it. Hell, the Bryan/Authority angle (which played off the IWC's long held views that HHH is an egomaniac douchebag and that Bryan was being held down by the WWE) was goddamned Shakespeare compared to WCW's godawful shoot angles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
Perry Normal posted:From the way the commentary team talked about it before the match, I got the impression that Yung Dragons wanted 3 Count to no longer have a record contract, so they had to pull that down to win. And, for some reason, having both of them going after one object made far too much sense, so 3 Count had to go after the gold record. Of course, the booking of the match doesn't really bear that out, but we are talking about a company that had pinfalls in a first blood match here, so who the gently caress knows. They probably didn't even know or care. There is also the fact its often pandering to a small segment of the viewership. Remember the comment about the scissors?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:There is also the fact its often pandering to a small segment of the viewership. Remember the comment about the scissors? He thought that segment of the viewership was much larger than it was and everyone knew everything about wrestling because of the Internet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:There is also the fact its often pandering to a small segment of the viewership. Remember the comment about the scissors? bobkatt013 posted:I said "Remember the comment about the scissors?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Doing the deed and watching New Blood Rising now. That ladder match was rough. It wasn't bad, but it was just SO FAST that none of the spots could even sink in. Tank was great, though. Watching this weird Muta match now. He looks so much better bald. It also never ceases to amaze me how bad WCW's production values were. The set is so rinky dink, the lighting makes it look even worse and the opening video package was just so bad. I dot understand how you stay in business that long and never get better at the simple/easy to see stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
quote:3 Count against the Yung Dragons was a good match though, even though it had a gently caress finish. Im still not even clear on the ending of that one. Did the Dragons get the gold record or not? What was the point of having two items above the ring? If the whole purpose was to get the record contract, why was there also the gold record? This is not actually a good match at all. All of the wrestling looks staged and awkward, the pacing is terrible, Tank Abbott is just sitting on the apron not paying attention to anything with his godawful tit shirt, and when the Jung Dragons pull down one of the items from the ladder (why are there two? no one knows), Tank just takes it from them and that's that. Somehow the next match is even worse and we're not even getting anywhere near the actual infamous poo poo on this PPV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
even wcw's 83 starrcade has way worse production values than an average episode of wccw from 1982. flair's pyro, which is a little bottle rocket that goes six feet in the air, misfires, and there is a light show that is all hosed up looks like a kid playing with a flashlight or something. plus i think they only have one camera and there are all kinds of audio issues.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
Some Other Guy posted:even wcw's 83 starrcade has way worse production values than an average episode of wccw from 1982. flair's pyro, which is a little bottle rocket that goes six feet in the air, misfires, and there is a light show that is all hosed up looks like a kid playing with a flashlight or something. plus i think they only have one camera and there are all kinds of audio issues. Starrcade 83 isn't a TV production though, it's just a closed circuit show for the Mid Atlantic market. It's a different kind of thing, even compared to Wrestlemania which was another closed circuit only show (well, they had extremely limited PPV too but it isn't worth mentioning.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
don't defend starrcade 83 it doesn't deserve it
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 00:34
|
|
|
Phenix Rising posted:It also never ceases to amaze me how bad WCW's production values were. The set is so rinky dink, the lighting makes it look even worse and the opening video package was just so bad. I dot understand how you stay in business that long and never get better at the simple/easy to see stuff. They weren't a hell of a lot better before, but Russo cut down massively on the production values once coming on board.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:00
|
|
|
Fauxhawk Express posted:They weren't a hell of a lot better before, but Russo cut down massively on the production values once coming on board. I don't think that's true. WCW spent more money on production in 2000 than ever before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:01
|
|
|
Yeah, as much as I hate WWE-isms, their production values have consistently increased over time and they long ago stopped looking like they were rolling film in your mom's basement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:02
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:I don't think that's true. WCW spent more money on production in 2000 than ever before. It wouldn't surprise me if both these were true, and Russo cut the budget for camerawork on the wrestling portion in favor of piling more money into filming backstage segments
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
I remember 2000 WCW using a lot less pyro and the entrance sets being quite homogenized.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Didn't they switch to a cheaper ugly set for all the shows around then? I liked the original Nitro set.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:22
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Didn't they switch to a cheaper ugly set for all the shows around then? I liked the original Nitro set. They switched to a Raw knockoff set with a mini titantron. It was cheaper than the 99 birdshit set, but that's just because that set had all of these moving parts and such. It wasn't a cost cutting move it was more a "Jesus Christ the birdshit set is bad let's just ripoff Raw like we're doing with everything else." Original set  99 Birdshit set  2000 sets   The original is such a great looking set, none of the replacements were any good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
The original set is the only actual good, high quality picture so that helps it look good, too. If they had just put a big screen above that it would have been fine. The show always looked off on TV too, though. Like it was always smokey or softened or something. It just didn't look crisp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:35
|
|
|
Phenix Rising posted:The original set is the only actual good, high quality picture so that helps it look good, too. If they had just put a big screen above that it would have been fine. It's surprisingly hard to find picture of the 99 set.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:37
|
|
|
Phenix Rising posted:The show always looked off on TV too, though. Like it was always smokey or softened or something. It just didn't look crisp. I've always felt this way about WCW shows. It's similar to now when you watch something on a CRT television after being used to an HD flat screen for so long.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
Yeah it's bad when the best picture of a set you can get is a 3D Model: I think it would have looked good in HD, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
God, this PPV is awful. Just the commentators talking about what's a shoot and what isn't and who was supposed to do what... ugh. loving garbage.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 01:56
|
|
|
Phenix Rising posted:God, this PPV is awful. Just the commentators talking about what's a shoot and what isn't and who was supposed to do what... ugh. loving garbage. I still maintain the 99 Bash PPVs were worse. Mlb.tv has been garbage for me today and has been much worse this year than in past years. It's funny that since ArRival the Network has been much better stream quality wise than mlb.tv itself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 03:00
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:Yeah, as much as I hate WWE-isms, their production values have consistently increased over time and they long ago stopped looking like they were rolling film in your mom's basement. I agree that their production is superb, I just wish they had a little more variety in their set design. It's pretty much been a variation on the Titantron/metal ramp layout since like 97.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 03:15
|
|
|
Yeah, but it's one of those things that it's ingrained that this is how a wrestling show looks nowadays. And if you want to do backstage stuff and have the live crowd react, you need that giant screen. You never realize how much the live crowd uses it until you're there. That thing is huge, and it needs to be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 03:56
|
|
|
Daniel Bryan posted:Yeah, but it's one of those things that it's ingrained that this is how a wrestling show looks nowadays. And if you want to do backstage stuff and have the live crowd react, you need that giant screen. You never realize how much the live crowd uses it until you're there. That thing is huge, and it needs to be. They should use the set up for the original Boiler Room Brawl and bring CRTs out so the fans at ringside can watch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 04:07
|
|
|
TL posted:I agree that their production is superb, I just wish they had a little more variety in their set design. It's pretty much been a variation on the Titantron/metal ramp layout since like 97. There's still room for originality in that though, I loved the Cyber Sunday cellphone set for example, and Mania always gets original because you can't really do the one giant screen setup in a building that big.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 12:23
|
|
|
Capitol Punishment a few years back had a fantastic set. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:Capitol Punishment a few years back had a fantastic set. Pretty much every WWE PPV stage was good to loving amazing until they started cost cutting, whenever they started using white ring ropes exclusively. Summerslam and Wrestlemania are the only shows that get unique sets that aren't just the Raw set with a few things added, nowadays.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
I can't believe how long Little Naitch vs Gorgeous George goes on Slamboree 1999. Wikipedia says 10 minutes but this feels like 30. George corpsing the whole time is pretty funny though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 05:41 |
|
|
bradzilla posted:Pretty much every WWE PPV stage was good to loving amazing until they started cost cutting, whenever they started using white ring ropes exclusively. Summerslam and Wrestlemania are the only shows that get unique sets that aren't just the Raw set with a few things added, nowadays. I was thinking about the white ropes the other day and how boring I find them. It's not like it's expensive to make the ropes different colors. It's literally just tape that the wrap around it. Why can't we have a little variety.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2014 21:38
|
|
