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CS171 at Harvard does that. I only audited the class so I don't have any real firsthand experience with the system.
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Jun 6, 2014 04:51
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I had a couple undergraduate classes where we had to submit assignments via SVN like that.
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Jun 6, 2014 04:59
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I had a few classes where the homework submission method was simply "we grade whatever's checked into the SVN server at midnight on the due date". Most people just treated it as a write-only homework submission server though, and a few times I had to persuade people to collaborate via SVN rather than emailing files around.
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Jun 6, 2014 05:29
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"but tests *are* documentation" "we don't need sysadmins"
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Jun 6, 2014 09:42
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tef how did you get on this negativity shtick?
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Jun 6, 2014 09:44
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shrughes posted:tef how did you get on this negativity shtick? Waking up.
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Jun 6, 2014 09:56
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shrughes posted:tef how did you get on this negativity shtick? lmao
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Jun 6, 2014 14:07
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pokeyman posted:Never do a team project? Try it once and have an awful experience figuring out some bullshit command line interface, then vow never to return? Don't intern anywhere competent? A few years ago I sure as hell didn't know my way around git CLI, but at the very least I learnt what commit, add, push, and pull was... pokeyman posted:Sitting everyone down in Programming 101 and saying "alright, in three weeks we'll start coding but today, here's how we download SourceTree..." would turn a lot of people off the subject entirely. My intro to cs class started off with sshing to our class accounts and using `submit hw1.py' in CLI, it would seem that teaching ssh would equally turn people off if this was the case too (it did, anyway). Impotence fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 16:15
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The one thing they did go over at my college was SSH. And by SSH I mean, "Here's telnet, use that. Hope you know what to do from there! Bye!" We didn't go over anything regarding version control, or data modeling, or separation of concerns, but they did get us using a CLI. The first half of my college career was CS, and the second was CIS.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:25
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Ithaqua posted:Use local workspaces, problem solved. If you're using a local workspace you don't even have the option to put an exclusive checkout on a file. The locks were older than the server running the version of TFS that has local workspace support. Turning a directory into a branch bypasses the local workspace, anyway AFAICT. Edit: oh now the branch as a phantom second location in the TFS directory structure or something? Can Microsoft just not make version control that isn't terrible in TYOOL 2014? E2: Or maybe they don't know how to use their own overcomplicated products. Or maybe I should upgrade from VS2012. Or I could just give up because it's easier to do it wrong. Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 16:47
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My second semester Intermediate Programming class introduced SVN and required assignments to be submitted via tags. A friend who took that class recently says they used git. Depends on the professor how assignments are submitted of course. Most of my courses that involved coding required me to upload a zip to their Moodle. Even group based projects.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:48
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Moodle. Now there is a coding horror. Holy poo poo I dodged a bullet working at a company that develops on it and somehow managed to get bumped to marketing projects right when I was going to have to do Moodle development, every single time. Knock on wood.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:59
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Would I regret asking what moodle is?
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Jun 6, 2014 19:51
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Strong Sauce posted:Would I regret asking what moodle is? It's a CMS for educational use. It's pretty bad but not like there are alternatives so it gets used everywhere.  My university apparently open-sourced their own home-rolled software, maybe it's an improvement: http://fenixedu.org/
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Jun 6, 2014 20:09
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Basically all Moodle had to do to get traction is to be slightly less abysmal (and certainly less expensive) than Blackboard.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:12
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SupSuper posted:https://moodle.org/ Oh there are alternatives. They are also complete poo poo. I've never understood why some school doesn't put together a cross-disciplinary course that makes an unshitty educational CMS (I refuse to put the word "system" after the word "learning"), and each semester get some students in who, guided by an instructor and some TAs, bang on some part of it for a grade. Then this school dogfoods the CMS and gives it to other interested schools. If the people who actually had to use these things (students, TAs, instructors) actually had any involvement in their construction or procurement, maybe they would become useful.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:14
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For some reason, the CS department uses Moodle, usually, while the rest of the university uses Desire2Lean. I'm not sure why, maybe some bullshit like Moodle is "free" software. Wild rear end guess, though.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:15
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zergstain posted:For some reason, the CS department uses Moodle, usually, while the rest of the university uses Desire2Lean. I'm not sure why, maybe some bullshit like Moodle is "free" software. Wild rear end guess, though. Desire2Lean would be the CMS for the hip-hop community quote:Discover the next generation of
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Jun 6, 2014 20:17
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pokeyman posted:Oh there are alternatives. They are also complete poo poo. That won't work for largely the same reason commercial education focused CMS's suck. Nobody that actually uses the CMS can articulate their workflows and/or everyone has a slightly different workflow and throws a fit when they don't get their way. Then the system teeters between incorrectly-focused and over-generic for others needs. Now expand that not just person to person or department to department but organization to organization. Plus good luck getting students in a course to write code that should be used in production at your own org let alone packaged for use at other orgs. Forget it.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:42
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zergstain posted:For some reason, the CS department uses Moodle, usually, while the rest of the university uses Desire2Lean. I'm not sure why, maybe some bullshit like Moodle is "free" software. Wild rear end guess, though. The university I attended started with Blackboard; halfway through my time there, the rest of the university switched to Desire2Learn and the school of computer science switched to Moodle. Moodle is pretty bad, but it's much better than either Blackboard or D2L, at least from an end user perspective. The fact that it's free is just a bonus. When I left there was an ongoing argument between other departments wanting to get off D2L and SOCS not wanting to act as Moodle administrators for the entire goddamn university.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:15
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zergstain posted:For some reason, the CS department uses Moodle, usually, while the rest of the university uses Desire2Lean. I'm not sure why, maybe some bullshit like Moodle is "free" software. Wild rear end guess, though. My University had Moodle in the CS department, Blackboard everywhere else. In this case it was because the CS department had its infrastructure first and held out against the pressures of consolidating to an inferior system.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:20
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I'd think we both might've attended the same school, as mine calls it SOCS as well (I thought I'd have to expand the acronym), but I don't know if they used to use blackboard. You didn't happen to go to a university in a medium sized town in Ontario, did you?
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Jun 6, 2014 21:27
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zergstain posted:I'd think we both might've attended the same school, as mine calls it SOCS as well (I thought I'd have to expand the acronym), but I don't know if they used to use blackboard. I did! It had a heavy biosci and agriculture focus and lots of building names starting with "Mac" or "Mc" on campus. When I started it was still the "department of computer science" under CPES, the College of Physical and Engineering Sciences. They used Blackboard back when I started my undergrad in 2003. I forget when they switched.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:40
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Factor Mystic posted:That won't work for largely the same reason commercial education focused CMS's suck. Nobody that actually uses the CMS can articulate their workflows and/or everyone has a slightly different workflow and throws a fit when they don't get their way. Then the system teeters between incorrectly-focused and over-generic for others needs. lovely specs aren't somehow more of a problem on a school project. And the "production code" argument doesn't really hold for me, you have students today in computer classes contributing meaningfully to open source projects. I'm thinking of it as a term-long project, where groups of students pitch a feature at the start of the term and, with guidance, end up with production or near-production code (or your grade suffers accordingly). Like a group project that doesn't just go *poof* at the end of the term. This course would also necessarily introduce everyone to source control, bug tracking, and so on. Make it the one "practical development" course everyone takes in second year of a four year program. What the hell, let's open Dogfood University. Where the buildings are designed by the architecture students, the libraries are run by the library students, and the software students are paged at 3AM when the registrar's systems go down in the middle of admission season.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:41
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I have recently seen cv's for senior dev positions come in that have proudly included things like "final year project in computer science degree: vb6 interface onto an access db" no poo poo. Needless to say the younger guys coming through are all quoting their github experience and getting the job. Also my phone autocorrected github to virgin.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:53
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Also my phone autocorrected github to virgin. loving 
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Jun 6, 2014 23:50
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Our recruiters love github references on resumes. For better or worse, it's the SWE portfolio tool now. We're building a tool into the hiring pipeline system to cross-reference their usernames against our projects and ones we use, etc. It's hard for non-practitioners to teach practical skills in a useful way, but if you get a prof who knows it well then great things can happen. We had classes of 4th-year students at one college doing production work on a major piece of consumer software. Not all of it worked out before the end if the term, because real software development, but they were living the code review, practical considerations, performance and maintainability stuff. (Does the Ontario university have a residence designed by a prison architect, and smell like a barn in the spring?)
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Jun 7, 2014 00:01
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Subjunctive posted:Our recruiters love github references on resumes. For better or worse, it's the SWE portfolio tool now. We're building a tool into the hiring pipeline system to cross-reference their usernames against our projects and ones we use, etc. Man that sounds like a bad deal for people who became professionals before github's rise.
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Jun 7, 2014 00:18
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Man that sounds like a bad deal for people who became professionals before github's rise. Why?
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Jun 7, 2014 00:21
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Man that sounds like a bad deal for people who became professionals before github's rise. It's not a requirement, but it is often a rich source of signal. That signal can come from other sources, but being able to see someone working on software can really increase confidence in a candidate.
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Jun 7, 2014 00:23
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Subjunctive posted:It's not a requirement, but it is often a rich source of signal. That signal can come from other sources, but being able to see someone working on software can really increase confidence in a candidate. This is totally understandable but the idea that I might be passed over for a job in the future because my profession isn't also my hobby bugs me. I'm safe in my academia bubble for the moment, but who knows where I'll be in a few years?
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Jun 7, 2014 00:59
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GrumpyDoctor posted:This is totally understandable but the idea that I might be passed over for a job in the future because my profession isn't also my hobby bugs me. I'm safe in my academia bubble for the moment, but who knows where I'll be in a few years? I agree with this. Plenty of companies are going to have software projects that don't use github, so using it as a requirement feels like a bad idea because you may overlook qualified candidates simply because they don't participate in open source projects
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Jun 7, 2014 01:50
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QuarkJets posted:I agree with this. Plenty of companies are going to have software projects that don't use github, so using it as a requirement feels like a bad idea because you may overlook qualified candidates simply because they don't participate in open source projects I agree, which is why I explicitly said that it wasn't a requirement. Being able to see someone's code and bug reports and so forth is useful when deciding if a candidate is promising. It is not necessary for doing so, and we have many many candidates who don't have any github presence at all. Similarly, a reference from an employee is a high-value signal, but not all our candidates have such references (and having a reference isn't sufficient on its own). By all means, provide some other way of demonstrating that you can build things. Fishing in the pond of "people who have their poo poo together enough to participate on github" is going to be better odds than the pond of "everyone who uploaded a resume", plus you can dig for more signal like "are their bug reports coherent?". Recruiters like things that improve the odds that they're identifying a candidate who make it successfully through the process. I will tell you categorically that every company overlooks qualified candidates; the 4-year-degree filter is a very common way, and interviewer feedback is often another. You want to get enough people to build the thing you're building, while keeping in mind that a false positive is *vastly* more damaging than a false negative. We are more open-minded than most places I've worked, but there will always be patterns that make it easier for someone (recruiter, screener, interviewer, hiring decider) to be comfortable with a given candidate.
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Jun 7, 2014 02:14
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Subjunctive posted:It's not a requirement QuarkJets posted:using it as a requirement feels like a bad idea What is so complicated about the idea that something can be a useful signal yet not a requirement?
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Jun 7, 2014 02:16
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Plorkyeran posted:What is so complicated about the idea that something can be a useful signal yet not a requirement? Yes. Why I so many words? You better.
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Jun 7, 2014 02:17
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Subjunctive posted:Fishing in the pond of "people who have their poo poo together enough to participate on github" is going to be better odds than the pond of "everyone who uploaded a resume" Sentences like this make it sound like a requirement.
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Jun 7, 2014 02:26
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If you can't think of a single other factor that they might care about beyond "participates on github" and "has a resume", perhaps. Or maybe if you assume that they're so un-desperate for qualified people that they refuse to interview anyone that doesn't sound completely perfect, which is pretty much the opposite of reality. For a lot of companies, you basically just need anything at all that shows you may be a good choice for the position to get past the resume screen. A presence on github can be that thing, but that does not mean it is the only thing that can. Plorkyeran fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 7, 2014 |
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Jun 7, 2014 02:36
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Bongo Bill posted:Sentences like this make it sound like a requirement. Then I guess you don't know what a requirement is? Do you think it's also a requirement to have an internal reference, or have previously been an intern? Both of those really improve the odds of someone being worth pursuing too. I would not have very many co-workers if they all had to be former interns with active github accounts and co-workers going to bat for them after they shipped their YC-backed product and published a well-regarded paper at a top-tier conference. (Not least because I wouldn't have made it through the door with 2/5.) Edit: I totally understand the butthurt stemming from "people with X have an advantage; I don't have X and I'm good". I don't have a degree, so I spent most of my career with that sensation. It doesn't make it a bad filter necessarily, because no company is trying to hire *me the special snowflake*, they're trying to hire someone that fits. Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jun 7, 2014 |
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Jun 7, 2014 02:40
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SupSuper posted:https://moodle.org/ Since we're namedropping lovely educational CMS'es, I would like to add it's learning to the list. Absolutely terribly designed for anyone who actually has to use it. There was a long while where opening two courses in separate tabs would cause both tabs to contain the same content, for instance. (Still showing distinct course names, though.) On top of that, you just have to poke at it with a stick, and a security hole falls out.
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Jun 7, 2014 08:57
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Talking about recruitment, what i find laughable is i went for a job that offered to be cutting edge TDD/Agile They gave me the toughest TDD programming test. I got the job. To find that its HARDCORE waterfall, with ISO9001 calling the shots. To change any code in any way needs authorisation from the Original Head Developer to make sure it follows his design (and I mean on a class level) You have to Produce full designs for any new work that has to be signed off by clients before starting. Daily Standups happen - The Head Of Operations (HOOP) walks up tells you what you are doing, end of standup. My first week involved me staying late on my second day to help the others with a release - I did most of the work. Needless to say I quit after 3 months and am glad I got out. Now i work in a nice place that sold itself as Waterfall but trying to shoehorn agile in where possible. And I love it....
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Jun 9, 2014 07:40
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