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Here are some characters I've played and/or am currently playing (that I can actually remember): -Johnny Tang, telekineticist in an Astro City-esque Mutants & Masterminds 2E game. Johnny was an extreme sports afficionado who came with his own force-field, and his very first in-game act was free-climbing up the side of a skyscraper and base-jumping back down to the ground without a parachute just for kicks (and attention, Johnny was a massive attention whore). He was super media conscious and was actually juggling a couple of shoe promotion deals even while the PCs formed a superhero team to do superhero stuff, with him cheerfully encouraging them along the way. Memorable highlights included holding a press conference, fighting a giant robot squid, and holding tryouts for auxiliary super-teams which Johnny turned into a reality TV show. -An auto mechanic in a Hunter: the Vigil game whose name I can't remember much to my irritation. When the GM asked us to provide as part of our background information a brush with the supernatural I decided that his would be alien abduction...he'd experienced abduction events multiple times over the course of his life and had a fairly extensive knowledge of UFO and abduction related lore. He was jittery, paranoid, and not exactly level-headed, and plunging into the world of the supernatural didn't do him any favors. At various points in the game he wound up covered in exploding vampire goop, possessed by a malign demonic dog spirit, and was regularly haunted by crows for reasons left unexplained. -Alishia Mesbet d'Orien in a 4E Eberron game. A scion of High House Orien who's completely uninterested in following in her mother's footsteps as one of the House's big movers and shakers, she spent most of her childhood learning the sorts of things that Orien couriers are (in)famous for like how to pick locks and sneak past guards and how to get from point A to point B regardless of what you have to climb or run over, things came to a head (during a brawl in a crowded marketplace) when it got found out that she'd been taking unarmed fighting lessons in secret for four years. Shortly thereafter her parents sent her to the Morgrave University Junior Associates Program, presumably as much to have some peace and quiet as to give her an environment to help properly hone her talents. Currently several hundred feet above the ocean having just helped hijack a Bloodsail pirate airship during a field trip to Xen'drik. -Natalya Voronova in the sadly ended Shadowrun 4E PbP that children overboard was running here. I basically wanted to make a character based off of concept art for Yelena Fedorova from Deus Ex: Human Revolution (the woman with the crazy cyberlegs) and wound up with a character that had 26 dice for climbing, 22 in jumping, and could freefall about three stories without taking damage. An "infiltration artist" (i.e. B&E specialist) Natalya was the sort of person who thought much more highly of her own jokes and antics than anyone else did. "Grating" and "unhinged" were the keywords I tried to keep in mind while playing her. Highlights include setting angry devil rats on corporate security and helping blow up a bug monster using a ship-mounted railgun. Very nearly detonated a nuclear reactor out of spite.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:31
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Gau posted:I just love that a dude who absconded from the forums in the most patronizing fashion because we aren't progressive enough is now doing a Pathfinder book. Eh, Pathfinder designers have been trying to be more inclusive and progressive in their portrayal of minorities and women in reasonable clothing in their products (in comparison to their previous blunders), so it's not like he's working for Raggi or Pundit or anything which would come off as really hypocritical.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:32
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gnome7 posted:I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean the moves need to be zoomed in more, made more specific for the nitty gritty DW wants, or that dungeon world needs to focus less specifically on the specifics of combat? Because from where I'm sitting the look pretty good for covering a play-by-play through a combat. If you mean you don't want to go play-by-play through a battle in a *World game, then yeah, I can see where your issue with DW is, but I think it's a lot of fun. Well, I mean that in the base Apocalypse World game, having a 7-9 on a Go Aggro or Seize By Force roll involve a serious escalation works well because each Move is a major chunk of a fight. Even a big battle won't have that many Moves going on, since you'll have Gangs etc. For Dungeon World, though, each move is a significantly smaller chunk of combat time, so having dramatic results for each 7-9 can quickly turn things into a drama spiral without the GM ignoring the base MC style of PbtA games and pulling the punches of their moves. This isn't game-ruining, but it is something that niggles at me.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:33
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If people keep dropping 7-9s, you have a bunch of Soft Move options before moving on the applying Hard Moves, both inside H&S/Volley/DD and out. It's not really pulling punches when the rules specifically differentiate between a Hard and Soft move. It's also a difference in the Fiction of AW versus DW. AW's fiction is by default very lethal, and DW's is heroic. So modifying and granulating to serve the fiction makes sense.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:35
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Mr. Maltose posted:If people keep dropping 7-9s, you have a bunch of Soft Move options before moving on the applying Hard Moves, both inside H&S/Volley/DD and out. It's not really pulling punches when the rules specifically differentiate between a Hard and Soft move. No, I mean that even the soft moves can create a spiral of ludicrous drama just because you can Defy Danger four or five times in DW where in the same situation in AW you would probably Act Under Fire once, maybe twice due to the different level of zoom. Getting a 7-9 each time can create some goofy situations where a pillar starts to fall onto the ration packs, then you drop them and they get caught on a ledge over the lava, etc. just from making location and danger moves in response to 7-9s.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:39
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? Even when I try to make amoral or evil characters they always end up acting more like straight good guys anyway, so I think a lot of my characters end up being sort of Paladin-style characters. I also almost never make teen-young adult age characters unless the game demands it, and tend to play middle-aged or old guys a lot.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:41
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Dungeon World does go from zero to chaos pretty fast, but I don't know that I'd characterize that as a flaw.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:41
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I suppose, but there is a reason Fiction First is the cardinal rule of PbtA. Eventually the GM can say it doesn't make sense to defy danger the fifth time, or fourth or third or whatever. Which is sort of the opposite of pulling punches, I guess? But I can easily see why someone would think differently about that.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:43
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Effectronica posted:No, I mean that even the soft moves can create a spiral of ludicrous drama... ...So? It's loads of fun when every little thing goes wrong and you keep holding on by the skin of your teeth and powering through anyway. That's what DW is all about.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:44
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Bieeardo posted:TG is the poster child for 'flavor of the month'. Eh, it is what it is. Honestly people getting excited about a new game for awhile and thinking it is great and wanting to talk about it seems better to me than like, grumping about 3.5 wizards or whatever other grumping could be taking place instead. People getting jazzed about stuff is fun.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:46
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Libertad! posted:Eh, Pathfinder designers have been trying to be more inclusive and progressive in their portrayal of minorities and women in reasonable clothing in their products (in comparison to their previous blunders) This is actually legitimately good to hear  Mr. Maltose posted:I suppose, but there is a reason Fiction First is the cardinal rule of PbtA. Eventually the GM can say it doesn't make sense to defy danger the fifth time, or fourth or third or whatever. Which is sort of the opposite of pulling punches, I guess? Yeah, having played Apocalypse World and Monsterhearts, Dungeon World just doesn't seem to be on the same level as a storygame. That doesn't mean it's bad; if it's evoking the sort of awesome D&D feelings in so many of you, it's obviously doing something correctly.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:46
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Mr. Maltose posted:I suppose, but there is a reason Fiction First is the cardinal rule of PbtA. Eventually the GM can say it doesn't make sense to defy danger the fifth time, or fourth or third or whatever. Which is sort of the opposite of pulling punches, I guess? Yeah, but it's a weakness in the way DW operates, because you should be rolling Defy Danger/Act Under Fire fairly often in a classical dungeon-with-dragon. It's just that AW operates 90% of the time on a fairly abstracted scale where DW goes down to the nitty-gritty more often and that's where the Apocalypse engine starts behaving funny. gnome7 posted:...So? It's loads of fun when every little thing goes wrong and you keep holding on by the skin of your teeth and powering through anyway. That's what DW is all about. Again, that's why I said people wouldn't even notice it. It's not like it turns DW into a fine Palladium product, I'd just like a good, fleshed-out PbtA game that offered up some options for fantasy novels.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:48
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Winson_Paine posted:Eh, it is what it is. Honestly people getting excited about a new game for awhile and thinking it is great and wanting to talk about it seems better to me than like, grumping about 3.5 wizards or whatever other grumping could be taking place instead. People getting jazzed about stuff is fun. Yeah, I've never understood why, for example, people scoff at RPGnet all the time for getting infatuated with new "RPGnet darlings" or the like but what do you expect when you get a bunch of elfgame nerds in a shared space and a shiny new game comes out? Like you said, people getting hyped over stuff is a cool thing, and the DW hype has led to a whole bunch of homebrew playbooks and settings and other rad stuff so I dunno man, bring on the flavor of the month.
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Jun 8, 2014 04:50
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah, I've never understood why, for example, people scoff at RPGnet all the time for getting infatuated with new "RPGnet darlings" or the like but what do you expect when you get a bunch of elfgame nerds in a shared space and a shiny new game comes out? Like you said, people getting hyped over stuff is a cool thing, and the DW hype has led to a whole bunch of homebrew playbooks and settings and other rad stuff so I dunno man, bring on the flavor of the month. Hype is something that can get annoying, and prompt a backlash. Then we get the Hegelian synthesis of a consensus opinion, and all is well until the next cool game comes out. I hope that my attempt to build an RPG around Texas Hold'Em will achieve this someday!!
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Jun 8, 2014 04:52
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Effectronica posted:Hype is something that can get annoying, and prompt a backlash. Man, something on a nerd forum causing a backlash, that almost never happens for virtually any reason whatsoever all the time.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:00
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Effectronica posted:Again, that's why I said people wouldn't even notice it. It's not like it turns DW into a fine Palladium product, I'd just like a good, fleshed-out PbtA game that offered up some options for fantasy novels. The problem with that is the same problem as a 'sci-fi' PbtA hack. Fantasy is such a soft and vague genre that you have to zero in a lot to get into territory firm enough to build a good fictional set from. Monster Of The Week more than Dungeon World shows a problem with that, because a game that lets you be Scooby-Doo or Supernatural is covering too much ground and diluting what makes those hacks good. It's also why Monsterhearts is possibly the strongest PbtA game, because it is super-laser focused on its genre and what it entails. Dungeon World's genre of "what you thought D&D was when you were 12" encourages cascading stuff happening, and if you're looking for a different kind of fantasy that doesn't have that slightly gonzo/Fiasco edge it can be very unsatisfying. There's certainly room for other fantasy genre ApocWorld games.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:01
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I've only had like a handful of characters, but I haven't really noticed a pattern with the types of characters I play, and I haven't played enough games with classes to have a preference.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:02
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Effectronica posted:Again, that's why I said people wouldn't even notice it. It's not like it turns DW into a fine Palladium product, I'd just like a good, fleshed-out PbtA game that offered up some options for fantasy novels. Like I said, DW is not quite this precisely because it tries to hard to be D&D, which is itself bad at being a fantasy novel. The market is pretty open, though.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:06
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Effectronica posted:Yeah, but it's a weakness in the way DW operates, because you should be rolling Defy Danger/Act Under Fire fairly often in a classical dungeon-with-dragon. It's just that AW operates 90% of the time on a fairly abstracted scale where DW goes down to the nitty-gritty more often and that's where the Apocalypse engine starts behaving funny. Alright, gotcha. Thanks for making that clear. As a Dungeon World supplement author who wants to make their own PbtA system, it's nice to hear from people who like PbtA but not Dungeon World, because most of my PbtA experience is flavored by that game's lens.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:10
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? I'm a chronic GM, but when I play I tend to have a pretty clear preference, namely those with innate magical ability with control issues. In terms of spellcasting style (if not fluff), the 3.5 Warlock class was pretty much spot on what I was looking for...with maybe a bit of old 2nd edition Wild Magic thrown in. Back in high school I was really into wild mages. I totally ruined some games (both as GM and player) trying to shoehorn it in. Winson_Paine posted:I like to beat the drum for new PBP in general, while all my TG fellows are beloved in their gaming, PBP is what brought me here in the first place and you never forget your first. I'm always tempted to play or run PBP games but I've come to realize that my favorite system (PDQ) just isn't ideal for most PBP gaming.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:12
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Like I said, DW is not quite this precisely because it tries to hard to be D&D, which is itself bad at being a fantasy novel. The market is pretty open, though. A PbtA hack based on the Gentlemen Bastards novels would be really rad.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:14
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I'd like to try a PbtA game so I have enough experience with the system to know how to whip up a hack for any genre that strikes my fancy, but the only reason I want to hack PbtA is because none of the genre hacks that currently exist really appeal to me. Dungeon World maybe emulates D&D too faithfully, because there's way the hell too many supplements that don't really need to exist.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:30
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Such as?
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Jun 8, 2014 05:31
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Well, you provided the best example yourself:Mr. Maltose posted:This is pretty much the big list of SA approved cool playbooks for cool people, sorted by what cool things they do. One thing that interests me about PbtA is how the rules are brief and self-contained, which is achieved because the playbooks are broad enough to support an endless variety of characters within the conventions of the genre. When I see a list of dozens and dozens of classes, then first of all, as a new player I don't know where to even start. It also gives me mixed signals about whether I should be choosing a playbook based on the very rough archetype I want to embody in the story, or picking one based on which of these very specific concepts is closest to the exact elf I want to pretend to be. Finally, the fact that there are so many of them and they're so specific makes me wonder if they might instead be replaced with guidelines for writing your own one-off playbook.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:48
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? I'm usually the DM, but my players apparently say that all the PCs I've made are all "supporting character" material compared to what other people come up with. It's weird, since these characters were all very different from each other. I guess being the DM so often has poisoned the way I come up with characters?
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Jun 8, 2014 06:01
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, you provided the best example yourself: Well, playbooks tend to be a little too meaty to whip up one on the fly. I don't really see any of those playbooks being VERY specific, either. They're all variable archetypes that can go a bunch of different ways depending on what moves you pick. If you wanted to pick a playbook to be in a theoretical Dungeon World game, you'd want to figure out what you want to do in the game and see what playbook could facilitate what you want to do.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:05
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, you provided the best example yourself: There's mostly so many because the hype train keeps chuggin', and a lot of people want to make a playbook. Making things is fun, DW is fun, so people make things for DW. People have made a hell of a lot of things, and yeah, that's a big, intimidating list to stare down! Especially when there's some unfinished or unformatted stuff in the mix. I think it's gotten a bit out of hand, but I'm not going to be the one to curb anyone's enthusiasm. I'm always glad to see people being creative and excited about things, it's wonderful. Also it'd be really hypocritical of me, since I'm pretty sure I'm the biggest offender of "making a million playbooks for DW." There's a bit of reinventing the wheel going on, where a lot of people don't quite like how something is handled by DW so they try to take on a different way of doing it. I've written about 8 mages so I should probably know  I think the easiest way to get into DW without the cruft is to have a playbook set - either a premade one like DW Core or Inverse World, or a selection of whatever the GM thinks is a cool set of 6-10 playbooks that don't step on each other's roles. There's loads of "alternate core" playbook sets out there, like the one I made as my first thing on DTRPG or Fenarisk's much more recent one, and there's a couple playbooks out there that fill a niche the core playbooks don't, like The Barbarian or The Dashing Hero, which you can just add to the core playbook set.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:07
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? I almost always play cleric/healer/supporting characters, because I know most of the rest of my group like to play distractable characters who have their own agendas, and there's always a need for someone to tie people together. But in one Dark Heresy campaign I left the group-managing to someone else and played a big dumb hick guardsman, and that was a whole hell of a lot of fun.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:08
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gnome7 posted:I think the easiest way to get into DW without the cruft is to have a playbook set - either a premade one like DW Core or Inverse World, or a selection of whatever the GM thinks is a cool set of 6-10 playbooks that don't step on each other's roles. There's loads of "alternate core" playbook sets out there, like the one I made as my first thing on DTRPG or Fenarisk's much more recent one, and there's a couple playbooks out there that fill a niche the core playbooks don't, like The Barbarian or The Dashing Hero, which you can just add to the core playbook set. That's fair if it comes down to GM curation in the end. The other thing that really interests me about PbtA games is that some of them are MC-less. Because the behavior of the antagonist is encoded in the genre that's being pastiched, it seems like, at least in some cases, the players can collectively follow the rules that describe the obstacles they face. If the narrative entirely follows from the players, that means nobody has to be stuck with the job of trying to keep track of everything and excluded from the main way to interact with it. Obviously this will never be suitable for some genres, but GM-less tabletop games are a concept that the lovely wannabe amateur designer in me really wants to explore.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:24
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Bongo Bill posted:That's fair if it comes down to GM curation in the end. I played a Gm-less Apocalypse World game once set in a prison spaceship, it was pretty rad. You can make it almost a larp, with different groups of players going off for private scenes that can come to light later and screw things up. My playgroup is a fan of gm-less games in general, we also played with a gm-less fantasy hack of Dogs in the Vineyard set in the world of the Night Angel trilogy. Anyway I don't post much but I tend to play either well-meaning but morally grey characters or heartless manipulators with one moral boundary they won't cross that ends up being their undoing. Usually wizard or leadery types.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:35
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Can you go into more detail as to how GM-less AW worked? You've piqued my curiosity.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:37
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? I used to have the type of "sneaky rogue type" but I dunno if I really have a type anymore. I have noticed most of my characters as of late tend to be female, so I've started making a few more dudes to sorta balance it out, I guess. I DO always make some kinda good guy though, or "person who will BECOME a good guy" in cases where I'm not one to start off with.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:41
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Davin Valkri posted:To change the topic, hey, anybody here often hit the same beats with the characters they make for these games? I'm full of bishies, doy, but Battlemaster likes aristocratic-y and slightly arrogant women, Plutonis seems to like petite, angry chibi-types, and Comrade Gorbash's characters are apparently "Almond from Cucumber Quest". Anybody else want to confess? I've gotten out of the habit of making the same character for every game. Still I do have a habit of playing combat focused characters who soak up damage like sponges. Sometimes its what is needed most for a group. Some people, those who have been around the PBP forum for more then a couple of years, will remember my character Jobs. Jobs showed up in a lot of games. He has shown up in fantasy, sci-fi, and everything between. When I submitted a Jobs character, I used the name Jobs or a variation. I then tried to tie in certain details into the character's personality and history. Humility, a dislike of rats, and humble beginnings. Beyond this, I would change things to suit my mood or the game. This idea of Jobs started with a character I submitted to a game. The game was GURPS Warhammer. I made a character that was a former rat catcher and was named Jobs. I decided when I made this character to not use all the points allotted for character creation. I think I created Jobs on 50 points instead of 100. Jobs was the opposite of a minmaxed character. He was severely unoptimized. Still he wasn't useless. Not long into this game, our group of characters fought goblins. The fight was pretty brutal. Things didn't go well for the characters. Strangely the weakest character managed to be the last survivor. Not sure how that happened, but it did. Impressed with this showing, Jobs started to show up in other games. Also Jobs shows up as NPCs in the games I run too.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:48
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Players chose what npcs existed, sort of FATE style. Each player had an NPC that they would roleplay as in when they didn't play their main characters. In a scene, when a player rolled consequences on an action, the group would collectively decide how the scene got worse for that player. To be honest my memory of exactly how it worked beyond that was a bit fuzzy, but we would have 2-3 all player scenes and 1-2 scenes where we would split into 2-3 groups to resolve private scenes. If I recall, the biggest problem was some people playing NPCs should have been a bit more aggressive in using directly harming actions, but all in all it was still very fun.
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Jun 8, 2014 06:53
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Winson_Paine posted:Eh, it is what it is. Honestly people getting excited about a new game for awhile and thinking it is great and wanting to talk about it seems better to me than like, grumping about 3.5 wizards or whatever other grumping could be taking place instead. People getting jazzed about stuff is fun. Oh, don't get me wrong, the hype train has got me curious about plenty of systems that I wouldn't have otherwise given the time of day, and the way games for those new-hotness systems proliferate means there's plenty of spots in the play forum. I just find it kind of disheartening how fast the bloom can come off the rose. The discussion that follows is always interesting. I've been picking up more insights about Apocalypse-powered games here and in F&F recently than I expected I ever would.
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Jun 8, 2014 07:15
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Bieeardo posted:Oh, don't get me wrong, the hype train has got me curious about plenty of systems that I wouldn't have otherwise given the time of day, and the way games for those new-hotness systems proliferate means there's plenty of spots in the play forum. I just find it kind of disheartening how fast the bloom can come off the rose. I think how, for instance, people are readily willing to discuss and critique the flaws of Dungeon World after a period of super-excitement is kind of a good thing. Not that you seem to be disagreeing with that, I'm just saying that the bloom coming off the rose isn't necessarily disheartening, going from "gently caress yeah let's play this new game WOO" to "okay we've played the hell out of game, now let's crack this fucker open and see what doesn't work" is a pretty good natural progression and, ideally, how you get better games and gaming over time.
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Jun 8, 2014 07:37
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I'm not using my words very well tonight, but yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. I like that.
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Jun 8, 2014 07:50
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lately i seem to be making a disconcerting number of demolitionist apps
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Jun 8, 2014 08:51
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Effectronica posted:I'm not seeing a huge difference here between the Skald and Bard, or between the Fighter and Warrior. That's because you're literally looking at classes designed as variants of the core book classes with only a few moves changed.
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Jun 8, 2014 10:38
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Winson_Paine posted:I like to beat the drum for new PBP in general, while all my TG fellows are beloved in their gaming, PBP is what brought me here in the first place and you never forget your first. Not really? Like running 4e pbp - or Pathfinder PBP or whatever - just requires coordination. The simpler you make things the better - tell PCs defenses and so on so they can give you completed turns, and that way everyone's actions are easily digestible. Then you as a DM need to be exact - you have an encounter and a working map set up, and every time you update you first go through and update everything from each post in turn in both the map and the post, then you get to go. So it's not really that much of a pain - it just takes a system.
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Jun 8, 2014 11:20
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