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kingcobweb posted:For anyone who cares about conspiracies in cube, I wrote about how incredibly powerful they are. quote:As long as you have one card of that power level, you should absolutely take Backup Plan: you have twice as good a chance of having that Ring or Lotus in your opening hand. (Actually, slightly more than that: as your deck gets smaller, you are more and more likely to draw it.) Your math here is wrong. Yes, if you don't see your Lotus in the first hand, it's more likely to be in the second hand given that information than it initially was to be in the first hand... but that's counterbalanced by the fact that if you do see your Lotus in the first hand, it definitely isn't going to be in your second hand. The probability that your Lotus is one of cards 1-7 in your deck is equal to the probability that it's one of cards 8-14. Assuming that you always choose the hand containing Lotus, the probability of having Lotus in your opening hand is exactly doubled. (Since realistically you might not always choose the Lotus hand, the probability that Lotus starts the game in your hand is slightly less than doubled.) Otherwise I agree though, the thing that makes Conspiracy work is that the junk commons make it difficult to get enough good cards to put in your deck, so choosing between a good card and a Conspiracy is a real decision. In a cube where you'll be able to get enough good cards anyhow, they're bonkers.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:31
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Otherwise I agree though, the thing that makes Conspiracy work is that the junk commons make it difficult to get enough good cards to put in your deck, so choosing between a good card and a Conspiracy is a real decision. In a cube where you'll be able to get enough good cards anyhow, they're bonkers. So not the MTGO Cube, then.  Backup Plan is indeed insane. It would still be insane if it read "you may take one free mulligan before going down to 6", which would approximate to "at the beginning of the game, draw a card" in a significant number of games, for zero mana or spell slot investment. When you not only get the free mulligan, but the chance to see both hands of seven before throwing one away, AND a guarantee that the second hand won't have any repeated nonland cards from the first (so you don't just get a lovely copy of the first), you'll basically never mulligan to 6, and sometimes you'll even get to increase the card quality of what would have been your 7-card keep. The stronger Conspiracy cards are so drat strong and non-committal that I'd almost consider not including them in the normal draft - e.g. you have to acquire them in a different way if you want them, either in an auction or by skipping a pick to take one. Also, just thinking of Double Stroke or Iterative Analysis with Snapcaster Mage/Eternal Witness/Regrowth/etc... oof. Although, the clear Double Stroke name in any deck that has it is Cruel Ultimatum.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:33
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Lord Of Texas posted:Also, just thinking of Double Stroke or Iterative Analysis with Snapcaster Mage/Eternal Witness/Regrowth/etc... oof. Although, the clear Double Stroke name in any deck that has it is Cruel Ultimatum. That's just a win more. Something like Double Stroke Hymn to Tourach is way spicier.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:38
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Vomax posted:That's just a win more. Something like Double Stroke Hymn to Tourach is way spicier. Double Stroke + Plea for Power was pretty awesome. "...So guys, do I get to draw 6 cards, take two extra turns or take an extra turn and draw 3 cards?"
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Jun 9, 2014 21:43
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Vomax posted:That's just a win more. Something like Double Stroke Hymn to Tourach is way spicier. Yes, that is true, if you are on a bus that will explode if you don't win a Cube 8-man. Otherwise, what would you rather do - win, or win more?
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Jun 9, 2014 21:46
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Is it strange to anybody else that the conspiracies are banned in vintage and legacy, rather than simply being not legal to begin with? Like, you can't play silver-bordered cards, planes, schemes, tokens or vanguards. Those things aren't on the ban list. Why should these cards? Actually, looking Vintage deck construction rules: quote:Vintage decks may consist of cards from all Magic card sets, any edition of the core set, and all special sets, supplements, and promotional printings released by Wizards of the Coast. Seems to me that this lets you play un-set cards and christmas cards. There doesn't appear to be any particular rule against silver bordered cards. Also, Conspiracy vintage is a fun format and should be played.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:04
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Dr. Stab posted:Also, Conspiracy vintage is a fun format and should be played. I want to see Conspiracy Legacy, with as many copies of Double Stroke naming High Tide as possible.  Mostly because I love High Tide, but it still seems very strong.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:07
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Conspiracy Legacy, sure. Whatever floats your boat. Make a deck. Let's do that. So I guess the idea is that you can have 4x of each conspiracy, but they don't count against your decklist. There's probably a more restrictive version of that that isn't completely insane, though. But, the being completely insane is what makes it great.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:11
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Dr. Stab posted:Is it strange to anybody else that the conspiracies are banned in vintage and legacy, rather than simply being not legal to begin with? Like, you can't play silver-bordered cards, planes, schemes, tokens or vanguards. Those things aren't on the ban list. Why should these cards? Actually, looking Vintage deck construction rules: MTR 3.3 defines authorized cards as black- or white-bordered, among other criteria.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:13
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Dr. Stab posted:Conspiracy Legacy, sure. Whatever floats your boat. Make a deck. Let's do that. Swamp, Mox Jet, Hymn To Tourach copied 3x. Go.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:18
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Dr. Stab posted:Is it strange to anybody else that the conspiracies are banned in vintage and legacy, rather than simply being not legal to begin with? Like, you can't play silver-bordered cards, planes, schemes, tokens or vanguards. Those things aren't on the ban list. Why should these cards? Actually, looking Vintage deck construction rules: Conspiracies meet all the conditions of authorized cards:
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Jun 9, 2014 22:20
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Entropic posted:Swamp, Mox Jet, Hymn To Tourach copied 3x. Go. Respond with Elvish Spirit Guide, Flames of the Blood Hand x5.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:25
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Dr. Stab posted:Respond with Elvish Spirit Guide, Flames of the Blood Hand x5. I prefer to use Simian Spirit x3 myself.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:27
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Ramos posted:I prefer to use Simian Spirit x3 myself. I assume you have 2x of the -1 cost Conspiracy naming FOTBH. Basically every deck would be running 4x of each conspiracy, the only variety would be in what they name. And everyone would have to run the "you go first" Conspiracy to make sure the die roll actually happens.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:36
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Playing gemstone caverns means you might not want that one.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:39
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Entropic posted:I assume you have 2x of the -1 cost Conspiracy naming FOTBH. Right. We're either getting close to or past Yugioh levels of combo dumbness.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:52
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Legacy Affinity with 4x Secret Summoning
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Jun 9, 2014 22:53
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Ramos posted:Right. We're either getting close to or past Yugioh levels of combo dumbness. That's why they're Constructed banned. Though Casual play might just get stupid/silly for some playgroups. Hopefully that will include the one I end up with at my new place in 2 weeks.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:03
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Ramos posted:Right. We're either getting close to or past Yugioh levels of combo dumbness. This is way, way past yugioh, even at its most broken. In this format, slow decks are ones that last past the first upkeep.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:12
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LordSaturn posted:Legacy Affinity with 4x Secret Summoning And 4x Backup Plan 
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Jun 9, 2014 23:14
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Cactrot posted:Double Stroke + Plea for Power was pretty awesome. I had these cards in my deck and it actually happened. I managed to get 2 extra turns and subsequently win the game after being nearly dead on board. Just had to convince the guy next to me to go with my vote. Not too hard considering we were both dead to the 3rd guy who was way ahead. Can't wait to draft Conspiracy again!
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Jun 9, 2014 23:15
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Death Bot posted:And 4x Backup Plan You see 5 seven card hands in a 40 card deck. So you get that 1 card win con basically every single game.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:17
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I just realized keyword "Conspire" isn't in Conspiracy.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:27
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jscolon2.0 posted:I just realized keyword "Conspire" isn't in Conspiracy. Neither is the card "Conspiracy"
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Jun 9, 2014 23:29
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Daydo Fackman was in it though
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Jun 10, 2014 00:20
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Gyshall posted:Daydo Fackman was in it though Duck Faygo
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Jun 10, 2014 01:21
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AgentSythe posted:Duck Faygo Dirk Fandango
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Jun 10, 2014 02:05
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Dr. Clockwork posted:Dirk Fandango Dank Flamingo
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Jun 10, 2014 02:27
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I want to make sure I'm thinking about these conspiracies the right way. Say I have Double Stroke and Iterative Analysis naming Lightning Bolt. Do I essentially hit something for 6 damage and draw two cards?
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Jun 10, 2014 02:36
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I'm about to do a conspiracy draft, is there anything I should try to grab? we don't keep the cards so not moneywise. Just cards solid to draft
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Jun 10, 2014 02:36
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RC Cola posted:I'm about to do a conspiracy draft, is there anything I should try to grab? we don't keep the cards so not moneywise. Just cards solid to draft Conspiracies are quite good, don't make the mistake of underestimating them. BXCX posted:Dank Flamingo Dork Flooding.
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Jun 10, 2014 02:38
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RC Cola posted:I'm about to do a conspiracy draft, is there anything I should try to grab? we don't keep the cards so not moneywise. Just cards solid to draft If you get a pack 1 pick 1 worldknit and don't insta draft it you're basically worse than Hitler
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Jun 10, 2014 02:38
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Kraus posted:I want to make sure I'm thinking about these conspiracies the right way. 706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isnt cast and a copy of an activated ability isnt activated. So, the copy is not "cast", and it won't draw you the second card.
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Jun 10, 2014 02:40
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Devor posted:706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isnt cast and a copy of an activated ability isnt activated. That's what I was afraid of. Oh well. I play Burn in Legacy, and just for fun I made a version of Burn with conspiracies. Goldfishing still has it killing turn one most of the time, even only drawing one off the Iterative Analysis named spells.
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Jun 10, 2014 02:45
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The most broken conspiracy interaction is doubling Manamorphose.
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Jun 10, 2014 02:49
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vOv posted:If you get a pack 1 pick 1 worldknit and don't insta draft it you're basically worse than Hitler I still stand by taking Stifle over it when I had the choice. 
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Jun 10, 2014 03:08
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BXCX posted:Dank Flamingo Donald Faison.
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Jun 10, 2014 03:19
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Kraus posted:That's what I was afraid of. Oh well. I play Burn in Legacy, and just for fun I made a version of Burn with conspiracies. Goldfishing still has it killing turn one most of the time, even only drawing one off the Iterative Analysis named spells. My conspiracy burn deck revolves around resolving one of 4 shrapnel blasts. Basically 100% turn zero kills with half the cards in the deck being counterspells. I guess it's more of a control deck, then. kingcobweb posted:The most broken conspiracy interaction is doubling Manamorphose. A fully tricked out manamorphose costs {1} and gives you 9 cards and 10 mana. Not that I'm doing that, but it sounds cool. Trying this list now. 4 Shrapnel Blast 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Manamorphose 4 Summoner's Pact 4 Pact of Negation 4 Delay 4 Swan Song 4 Force of Will 4 Spellstutter Sprite Not sure on the mana/spell balance (probably need more spells, but going beyond 4 spells needing colors is hard), but I haven't had a hand yet that didn't have Shrapnel blast and at least triple protection. Manamorphose gets doubled, shrapnel blast gets quadrupled. Not sure what needs to cantrip (probably all of those on Shrapnel Blast). Spellstutter fetches more and also has haste and taps for mana, so in the end you spend zero on it.
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Jun 10, 2014 03:21
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Sarcastro posted:Donald Faison. Dark Fatty.
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Jun 10, 2014 03:26
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Dr. Stab posted:My conspiracy burn deck revolves around resolving one of 4 shrapnel blasts. Basically 100% turn zero kills with half the cards in the deck being counterspells. I guess it's more of a control deck, then. What artifact are you sacrificing to Shrapnel Blast?
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Jun 10, 2014 03:42
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