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The Ape of Naples posted:To be fair, just because he has a Facebook post saying he was at the ranch I wouldn't trust that that was true. There's a video of "Jarad Miller" being interviewed at the ranch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6b2y9jVkAo&t=40s
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Jun 9, 2014 20:03
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Fandyien posted:This guy was a tremendous rear end in a top hat murderer but I do think that infowars post points to a lot of the serious issues with the way a single weed charge can straight ruin someone's life. Granted, his life wouldn't be as hosed if he didn't react in such an insane way and fixate on being able to keep his guns, but its bullshit he was ever treated that way for reefer. That's a different crazy person, that was a 'sovereign citizen' who tried to storm a courthouse, these two were teabagger revolutionaries.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:03
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Goddamn so many shoes dropping on this poo poo I'm half expecting to find out he was writing articles on Fox Nation, interned at Bain Capitol, mowed Sarah Palins lawn and is a bastard Bush son.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:14
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JehovahsWetness posted:There's a video of "Jarad Miller" being interviewed at the ranch: Welp. There you go.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:14
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Waaahhhh, I got busted for dealing an illegal drug why can't I have guns? Seriously, dude was selling drugs and is upset that he was on probation? If you're going to be angry at the government, at least make it for doing something that is actually legal. Actively breaking the law and then killing cops because you got caught is ridiculous.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:57
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JehovahsWetness posted:There's a video of "Jarad Miller" being interviewed at the ranch: drat this dude is really deep cover!
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Jun 9, 2014 21:01
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Does being on probation revoke your gun rights? Because they seems like a completely appropriate punishment for disturbing the peace by terrifying a Chili's.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:08
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moths posted:Does being on probation revoke your gun rights? Because they seems like a completely appropriate punishment for disturbing the peace by terrifying a Chili's. Depends. Most states revoke some of your civil rights (voting, right to own a gun) if you're a convicted felon, but probation restrictions are usually up to the judge.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:15
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Sir Tonk posted:Waaahhhh, I got busted for dealing an illegal drug why can't I have guns? Yeah, why would someone be angry over getting arrested and hounded for a year by the legal system over something as awful as marijuana possession?
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Jun 9, 2014 21:28
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Was it dealing or possession?
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Jun 9, 2014 21:33
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Fandyien posted:Yeah, why would someone be angry over getting arrested and hounded for a year by the legal system over something as awful as marijuana possession? You can be angry about it but it doesn't change the consequences. I'm a WA resident who smoked pot for years before I-502 and I wasn't under any notion that marijuana laws being dumb was going to save me if I got caught somewhere with it on me, so I was careful about all my dealings and rarely smoked away from home. I think they're all just as bullshit as the next burnout but that doesn't mean I'm going to blame someone else if a fed catches me tomorrow.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:33
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Fandyien posted:Yeah, why would someone be angry over getting arrested and hounded for a year by the legal system over something as awful as marijuana possession? He was a drug dealing meth head with an arrest record, a pile of guns, and a fixation on fringe-y right-wing politics. Whether or not you agree with weed laws, you have to admit that the cops wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't keep a close eye on that dude.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:34
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Intel&Sebastian posted:You can be angry about it but it doesn't change the consequences. I'm a WA resident who smoked pot for years before I-502 and I wasn't under any notion that marijuana laws being dumb was going to save me if I got caught somewhere with it on me, so I was careful about all my dealings and rarely smoked away from home. I think they're all just as bullshit as the next burnout but that doesn't mean I'm going to blame someone else if a fed catches me tomorrow. Zeroisanumber posted:He was a drug dealing meth head with an arrest record, a pile of guns, and a fixation on fringe-y right-wing politics. Whether or not you agree with weed laws, you have to admit that the cops wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't keep a close eye on that dude. I don't disagree with you guys. I just really didn't like the tone of that post and the notion that you don't have a genuinely good reason to be angry over a marijuana arrest.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:38
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Fandyien posted:I don't disagree with you guys. I just really didn't like the tone of that post and the notion that you don't have a genuinely good reason to be angry over a marijuana arrest. You are literally defending the anger of a lunatic who killed police. Yea I know weed laws are bad, but you don't go loving kill people because of it. Try to see the forest through the trees a little
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Jun 9, 2014 21:55
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Intel&Sebastian posted:You can be angry about it but it doesn't change the consequences. I'm a WA resident who smoked pot for years before I-502 and I wasn't under any notion that marijuana laws being dumb was going to save me if I got caught somewhere with it on me, so I was careful about all my dealings and rarely smoked away from home. I think they're all just as bullshit as the next burnout but that doesn't mean I'm going to blame someone else if a fed catches me tomorrow. I disagree, it's perfectly legitimate to blame the government if you're arrested under drug laws because those laws were made on behalf of the government to serve the government (aka funnel money to law enforcement to use for cool new paramilitary toys) to the detriment of everyone else. That doesn't mean you don't take steps to avoid risk and avoid doing anything likely to get you caught, but I refuse to lay blame on people who did absolutely nothing wrong. Rexicon1 posted:You are literally defending the anger of a lunatic who killed police. Yea I know weed laws are bad, but you don't go loving kill people because of it. Try to see the forest through the trees a little No one is defending the guy at all, we're just saying that it's perfectly legitimate to be pissed at the cops and at the government if you're arrested for drugs.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:56
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Rexicon1 posted:You are literally defending the anger of a lunatic who killed police. Yea I know weed laws are bad, but you don't go loving kill people because of it. Try to see the forest through the trees a little Show me where I did anything to diminish the murder of police officers? I'm just saying, smugly going "well yeah it's ILLEGAL, idiot!" is counterproductive and hella stupid. There are lots of people who do terrible things but are angry for non-stupid reasons. ed: also maybe less people who are already inclined towards violent outbursts would actualize them if they weren't given a pretense as good as being unjustly persecuted for possession. Frog Act fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 22:01
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Holy crap this story is Mickey and Mallory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH1QmfQnWbg BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 22:12
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Fandyien posted:ed: also maybe less people who are already inclined towards violent outbursts would actualize them if they weren't given a pretense as good as being unjustly persecuted for possession. He said in one of his InfoWars comments that he was dealing to supplement his income (read: drug habit).
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Jun 9, 2014 22:13
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Fandyien posted:I don't disagree with you guys. I just really didn't like the tone of that post and the notion that you don't have a genuinely good reason to be angry over a marijuana arrest. While it is valid to be upset about being on probation for a harmless crime, the proper response is to thank your lucky stars you only ended up with probation and diversionary treatment. This guy's anger is completely disproportional to the outrage warranted when you get busted for a nonviolent but illegal act. Jaywalking is a pretty bullshit crime but if I got a ticket for jaywalking, lost my mind about it and shot a cop it's not an argument in support of decriminalizing jaywalking. MaxxBot posted:but I refuse to lay blame on people who did absolutely nothing wrong. I smell an insane amount of privilege on this guy that he got so upset about being on probation and having to piss in a cup after getting busted for selling weed. It's like starting fires in your kitchen because your parents took away your favorite toy. Dude's a total manchild. He got charged with felony distribution and apparently avoided jail time, yet this was wasn't good enough for him because he wasn't able to keep guns in the house or smoke weed without risking jail. There's a lot to be said about police militarization and the total nonsense that is the drug war but this guy is a horrible example to demonstrate why those things have negative impact on people. I agree that selling weed is 'doing nothing wrong' but the proper thing to do is lawyer up and protest, not turn yourself into a spiteful ball of ignorant sputtering outrage. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 22:23
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Fandyien posted:ed: also maybe less people who are already inclined towards violent outbursts would actualize them if they weren't given a pretense as good as being unjustly persecuted for possession. These were dangerous, unhinged people. A parking ticket could have set them off.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:31
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Fandyien posted:ed: also maybe less people who are already inclined towards violent outbursts would actualize them if they weren't given a pretense as good as being unjustly persecuted for possession. This could easily be construed as not punishing people who feel like they are special above the law snowflakes because we don't want to antagonize them.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:34
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Well you get into trouble when you engage in counter-factuals based on limited information. He might've radicalized into the anti-government movement anyways. As an aside, I'm curious what happened to him at the Bundy Ranch. The Ranch people are saying he was asked to leave. They are assuredly covering their rear end on this, but it wouldn't be surprising if the Ranch militia wasn't radical enough for him. Compare it to this: A lot of counter-terrorist researchers who study Islamist extremism say the dangerous guys are not the ones showing up to the mosque, but the ones who showed up and got asked to leave because they started making extremist statements / criticizing other worshipers as not being true Muslims / and so on. The organized right-wing militias in the U.S. are almost entirely defensive in nature. So when the people who want to kill cops show up, they get pressured out, and the result is them retreating into an isolated, inner world where the radicalization process accelerates into violence. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 22:44
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So here's some anecdotes:quote:The Millers went to Bundy’s ranch, about 80 miles outside of Las Vegas, in April, they said on social media sites. But the militiamen shunned the couple because Jerad Miller had prior felony convictions in Washington State. quote:Ammon Bundy told The Associated Press that Jerad and Amanda Miller were asked to leave his father's ranch after being there for a few days this spring.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:04
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These people were all over the place, after drudging through their facebook for a bit. On the subject of drugs: quote:Jerad Miller Strange self-contradictory thoughts on benefits: quote:Jerad Miller One things I keep hearing was that this guy was a racist. I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no evidence of it on his facebook at least. This at least seems strangely sympathetic to immigrants relative to your usual right winger: quote:Jerad Miller On the less political and just sad human interest side of things, his wife seemed to be a lot less politically crazy. She just liked Harley Quinn and cats a lot. Also guns. But anyway, one can infer that her parents didn't approve of his influence on her: quote:Jerad Miller In any case, while these people may not neatly fall neatly into a right-wing stereotype, and the guy has a bunch of crazy political beliefs (and it sounds like the Bundy people may have rejected them for their differences), it seems like he was mostly just generically anti-government leading up to their shooting, with a special emphasis on the Clive Bundy thing, and how it was going to be the start of a revolution. No way to know for sure what was going through their heads when they did it, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't mostly the revolutionary rhetoric around the Bundy Ranch incident that made them think this was a good idea.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:09
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How loving crazy do you have to be to get kicked out of the Bundy militia?
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Jun 9, 2014 23:10
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Omi-Polari posted:So here's some anecdotes: Other Bundy says the opposite: quote:The rancher's wife, Carol Bundy, told FoxNews.com that no one was kicked out because of their beliefs. Saying they were kicked out looks like rear end covering to me
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Jun 9, 2014 23:13
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Eiba posted:In any case, while these people may not neatly fall neatly into a right-wing stereotype, and the guy has a bunch of crazy political beliefs (and it sounds like the Bundy people may have rejected them for their differences), it seems like he was mostly just generically anti-government leading up to their shooting, with a special emphasis on the Clive Bundy thing, and how it was going to be the start of a revolution. No way to know for sure what was going through their heads when they did it, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't mostly the revolutionary rhetoric around the Bundy Ranch incident that made them think this was a good idea. His wife seems like she was along for the ride.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:16
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If the Bundys think nobody advocated for white supremacy at the Bundy ranch, I am kind of curious what they think white supremacy is.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:19
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sleepingbuddha posted:How loving crazy do you have to be to get kicked out of the Bundy militia? Good Citizen posted:Saying they were kicked out looks like rear end covering to me 
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Jun 9, 2014 23:20
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They didn't kick out the people who were bragging about the "line up the women and children so the feds shoot them first" idea so I really doubt they kicked out these people. Of course they very well might have, in a situation where everyone else there knows they're just playing revolutionary, but then the shooter shows up and they're like, holy poo poo, this guy means it. So they kick him out and go back to parading around with guns while ranting about how armed conflict with the government is going to be necessary any day now.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:20
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Bundy is on video tape claiming that blacks are better off as chattel slaves then being on foodstamps. How the gently caress is that not white supremacy.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:23
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So it turned out Megyn Kelly beat O'Reilly demo-wise for the first time ever last week http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/fox-news-megyn-kelly-tops-bill-oreilly-in-demo-for-first-time-1201216776/
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Jun 9, 2014 23:23
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Sharkie posted:They didn't kick out the people who were bragging about the "line up the women and children so the feds shoot them first" idea so I really doubt they kicked out these people. Of course they very well might have, in a situation where everyone else there knows they're just playing revolutionary, but then the shooter shows up and they're like, holy poo poo, this guy means it. So they kick him out and go back to parading around with guns while ranting about how armed conflict with the government is going to be necessary any day now. But the other thing is that the militias say crazy poo poo, but at the end of the day they're almost all defensive in orientation. They locked and loaded when the BLM came to seize the cattle, for instance. They're not actively going out in an organized group and killing police officers. If this guy came in there and started to agitate for that kind of strategy -- maybe he did maybe not -- then that might have crossed a red line. It's the difference between "we'll shoot them if they try to take the cattle" and "why wait?" I think the Bundy Ranch also had a split awhile back between two groups of militiamen, one less radical (and larger -- the Oathkeepers I think) and one more radical (and smaller), and the more radical ones left the camp. They even pointed guns on each other. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 23:30
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Axetrain posted:Bundy is on video tape claiming that blacks are better off as chattel slaves then being on foodstamps. How the gently caress is that not white supremacy. He didn't say "I am a racist" therefore it's not racism, you're racist for thinking black people need a handout from the government, etc., etc. Vertical Lime posted:So it turned out Megyn Kelly beat O'Reilly demo-wise for the first time ever last week quote:“The Kelly File” averaged 413,000 adults 25-54 Is there not a finer grain demographics report? What's the reasoning behind grouping a fresh college grad in with his dad who's really interested in cholesterol medication?
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Jun 9, 2014 23:31
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Omi-Polari posted:Yeah. And one of the reasons given was the guy had a felony record. Speculating, but it seems more likely that he got tired of the militia's lack of aggression and wandered off rather than the militia getting tired of him to the point where they ran him off.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:35
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quote:Is there not a finer grain demographics report? What's the reasoning behind grouping a fresh college grad in with his dad who's really interested in cholesterol medication?
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Jun 9, 2014 23:41
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Sharkie posted:Is there not a finer grain demographics report? What's the reasoning behind grouping a fresh college grad in with his dad who's really interested in cholesterol medication? For Fox it's actually total viewers that matters more (usually total viewers matter very little to not at all, demo is "king"), since old people are their intended audience, hence all the old person ads. Fox's average viewer is 68, and for Bill O’Reilly's show it's 72. Also Toonami at fade5 fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 00:02
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Vertical Lime posted:So it turned out Megyn Kelly beat O'Reilly demo-wise for the first time ever last week O'Reilly's gonna have to step up his game and start showing off those gams of his.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:03
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fade5 posted:25-54, (or 18-49, however the gently caress you break it up) is used as the mark for disposable cash; TVIV can give you a better insight, but that's the gist. Like most things TV related it's an outdated metric, but there's massive feet dragging because the current method has been very profitable for a very long time, and change is hard. I don't know why this is funny to me, but it is.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:20
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Axetrain posted:Bundy is on video tape claiming that blacks are better off as chattel slaves then being on foodstamps. How the gently caress is that not white supremacy. Because after his "let me tell you about The Negros" bit, he went on to praise Hispanics for being hard working and family oriented. If you listened to that whole speech he did, their were some definite groans from the Stormfront regulars in the crowd when he got to that part. He's a Hispanic Supremacist. And in a perverse way this is a thing on the right, and it comes up every time they scratch there heads over why they can't seem to get their votes. Also, with white being the "default" in the US, they criticize them all the time without outright saying "let me tell you about The Whites". All this talk about how "Americans won't do these jobs", or kids and their liberal arts degrees, or lazy hipsters, or a hundred other tropes that they may not consciously be aware of that are putting down modern White American culture. While the right loves to play up the drug mules and anchor babies coming across the southern border, there is also a huge amount of what are basically Mexican rednecks. They love their cowboy hats and boots, pickup trucks, and their version of country music. It is an open secret in conservative rural America that these guys are great. And while listening to Rush and the like complain bitterly about them crossing the border, rural Americans employ huge numbers of them. The right can be very bold, upfront, and arrogant about so many issues. But this one makes them squirm so much, and all the contradictions involved keeps them from ever really realizing why it makes them squirm.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:22
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