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I sorta like the IP for nostalgia reasons but honestly I'm not that fussed if GW dies and takes the IP with them, I've since moved on to spergier and groggier pursuits.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:09
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I have my decent human-proportioned soldiers and anime robot forgeworld minis that will last me years and I got tired of the grim dark crap back when I was a teen. gently caress 'em, many better games out there. I plan on using mine for infinity cuz they have anime robots there too. I still find it surprising when people keep posting large amounts of warham pics on the warham threads and expect them to be trolls showing how terrible and autofellating the setting is but nope people love that poo poo. I was never around when the company was actually being sarcastic with the setting but those must've been good times. Heard there was a space Margaret thatcher.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:21
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Chill la Chill posted:I have my decent forgeworld human-proportioned soldiers and anime robot minis that will last me years and I got tired of the grim dark crap back when I was a teen. Regular plastic minis look too bad and chunky. gently caress 'em, many better games out there. I plan on using mine for infinity cuz they have anime robots there too. drat phone posting finally got to me with that edit != quote thing. E: dunno. I heard they had a satirical Margaret thatcher character and assumed it was 40k cuz that's where they placed the space hooligans Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 14:22
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Wasn't she fantasy? I thought the Ice Queen of Kislev was the Thatcher reference.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:22
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Me three. Orks are my favourite fictional race, ever. I love every aspect of them - the dark humour, aesthetics and background. I can give/take a lot of the 40k background but Orks are my absolute favourite. However, other than the plastic Shokk Attack Gun, I'm extremely unlikely to buy any of the new Ork models or codex. I have £200/month budget for wargaming and none of it goes on GW now. I'm extremely enthusiastic about the hobby and so far introduced three friends back into wargaming this year, and none of them have taken up GW games. For all GWs bluster about how they rely on word of mouth for advertising, I should be their ideal target audience. I want to like 40k, I really do but at this point I don't see how they could realistically tempt me back. They would at minimum need to: - Rewrite 40k from scratch. Throw out the core rules and all the codexes and start again. Even more of a reboot than 3rd ed was. It would need to be as tight and balanced as Warmachine. Stop using "Beer & Pretzels" and "Forging the narrative" as an excuse for appallingly lovely writing. - Halve their prices. Not necessarily on everything, but elite infantry and heroes are beyond a joke now. The Flash Gitz and Mek Guns really tempted me back into 40k, but the prices are about twice what I'd be willing to pay. I can see there being a *slight* premium on elite units, maybe 10-25% or so, but £35 for 5 models, especially when you're realistically wanting twice as many models in a unit, is just insane. "Extra bitz" does not justify those costs. The only model I've seen so far that I'm tempted by is the Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun, but only as a fun project to paint up. - Model counts in games halved. The size of 40k as standard is now ridiculous. There's no room to manoeuvre on a standard 6x4 board any more. While it's a combination of both model counts and the rules being so staggeringly bad, 2-3 hours to play a standard game is awful. - Get rid of flyers, unbound and titans in standard games. They don't belong. Knock yourselves out if you want them as optional rules variants. I won't ever play the variants, but I won't ever play 40k as long as they're in the standard core rules. Those are just the minimum changes that they'd need to make to 40k, let alone the companies business practices. Even then it depends on how well Mantics Warpath does. Kings of War hit the perfect spot for fantasy mass battles to the point where I don't see any changes to WHF that would tempt me back to that.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:23
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Forums Terrorist posted:Wasn't she fantasy? I thought the Ice Queen of Kislev was the Thatcher reference. It was the ork warlord "Mag Uruk Thraka" for 40k, at least.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:31
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Icon Of Sin posted:It was the ork warlord "Mag Uruk Thraka" for 40k, at least. That's the one. Also there was that sweet inquisitor named obi1 doctor who something something but you don't have sweet names like that anymore
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Jun 11, 2014 14:45
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Chill la Chill posted:That's the one. Also there was that sweet inquisitor named obi1 doctor who something something but you don't have sweet names like that anymore There were three parts to the name. I know two were Obi-Wan and Closeau. I forget the third.
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Jun 11, 2014 15:06
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Chill la Chill posted:That's the one. Also there was that sweet inquisitor named obi1 doctor who something something but you don't have sweet names like that anymore You mean that the Ultramarines are no longer around? That the Primarch of the Iron Hands stopped being Ferrus Mannus? That the canonical Post-Exterminatus planet wasn't Sienna (turning it, of course, into Burnt Sienna). And you mean the Inquisitor Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau I think? Also my favourite 40k illustration ever was a gleefully illustrated black and white sketch of an Ork Kult of Speed with the caption something like "Travel narrows the mind wonderfully. There's nothing like seeing alien cultures to remind you of the superiority of your own." Did they seriously take the whimsy away?
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Jun 11, 2014 15:09
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Most of it's been downplayed and filtered out, yeah.
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Jun 11, 2014 15:14
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neonchameleon posted:
It's largely played 100% straight and on-the-nose now.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:31
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The IP is valuable enough that someone will save it, through buyout or HMRC auction, but my main concern is what happens to Forgeworld, the only part of GW still making good stuff and not treating the playerbase like crap or enacting irrational price "zones" that make the MPAA created DVD and Bluray zones look like a consumer benefit.
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Jun 11, 2014 18:05
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There are elements of what 40k does that I like. No other sci-fi minis property lets me run knightly heraldry and robes and things in space. It's got a very "used universe" kind of feel to it which I enjoy. They're unafraid of putting some big poo poo on the table (although there are other games that do that and do it better, so whoop de do). It's also completely rudderless. The 40k rulebook writers essentially write whenever they feel inspired to, for whatever inspires them at any given time, with no real coherent plan for releases over several years - at best they seem to plan around the next two releases or so. There's no "big vision" oversight of 40k beyond a giant book of now mostly worthless copyrighting and trademarking. They have no idea how to design a game from first principles and don't even understand fundamental game-playing psychology, like the notion of fair play. Esser-Z posted:There were three parts to the name. I know two were Obi-Wan and Closeau. I forget the third. Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau. 
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Jun 11, 2014 18:10
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Daedleh posted:However, other than the plastic Shokk Attack Gun, why the gently caress are they remaking the shokk attack gun? it's one of the newest and best models of the line. why not the wartrakk, deffkoptas, or MANz? christ. that'd be like them remaking the stompa (or worse just making a NEW stompa that's only got like a 5% price/point cost difference but is otherwise poo poo knowing how GW does releases)
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Jun 11, 2014 19:11
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Broken Loose posted:that'd be like them remaking the stompa (or worse just making a NEW stompa that's only got like a 5% price/point cost difference but is otherwise poo poo knowing how GW does releases) Not sure if this part is a joke, but: 
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Jun 11, 2014 19:18
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Dagon posted:Not sure if this part is a joke, but: wow next somebody's going to tell me that the new SAG model is near identical to the old one because "you can't mess with perfection" or some poo poo edit HOW DOES THAT THING EVEN loving WALK? IT CANNOT ACHIEVE LOCOMOTION. THIS IS WORSE THAN THE CENTURIONS WHOSE LEGS ARE BOLTED INTO PLACE AND CAN'T MOVE THEM FORWARD
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Jun 11, 2014 19:36
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Broken Loose posted:wow Well I won't tell you that then.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:53
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There's basically less than zero percent chance that the Warhammer IPs (especially 40k) disappear from the face of the earth. It simply has too much value to nerds, even with all that's been done for it. They will have a fire sale to a less sociopathic toy/game company or gut their current management before that actually happens. Heck, if GW wasn't going to have a crowd of idiots (within and without) baying for blood when market share continues to drop, they could probably limp along as a game company almost forever, in the vein of Palladium. Unlike Palladium, they're being helmed by people who were in it to see dollar signs rather than for love (however twisted) of the games, so they'd sell and get out sometime before they got to that level.
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Jun 11, 2014 20:15
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My money's on a large game or toy company buying up GW if it goes down the drain financially. There's evidently a bunch of money in the IP, and a lot of the losses are caused by GWs mentally challanged attitudes towards sales, logistics etc., issues that an actually competent toy company would be better fit to solve. If Hasbro bought the rights you'd be damned sure there'd be plenty of starter sets cramming the shelves of Toys R Us and similar stores, instead of the mysteriously passive-aggressive stance from GW towards retailers. Or Matell could buy it, and we'd finally truly be stuck with space barbies. 
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Jun 11, 2014 20:38
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There's all kinds of things you could do with the manufacturing process, too. Colored injection-mold plastics for space marine chapter specific things / orc skin / whatever else you can think of which will, even unpainted, look better than a mass of gray without interfering with basecoating. Built-in snap-on or even rubber joint functionality to encourage weapon swaps and poseability on larger models like dreadnoughts, vehicles and the big Eldar walkers. Getting competent digital sculptors who understand that a miniature is not just another miniature with some poo poo added on top (freakin' Sternguard) but instead recognize that it has to have some kind of recognizable silhouette even during play. There's a lot of things they could be doing which premium model manufacturers elsewhere are doing and have been doing for about thirty years. It's honestly unfortunate that GW is the miniature wargame market leader because too many wargames are blinded by GWs standard.
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Jun 11, 2014 20:46
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Indolent Bastard posted:Well I won't tell you that then. Oh god, what did they do? Add another grot? Change the direction of the Mek's cigar? Put spinning effects on the balls? Nothing?
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Jun 11, 2014 20:53
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Hell, we might even get black female Space Marines.
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Jun 11, 2014 20:56
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RH is right. I laugh every time a fan says GW plastics are top notch. I casually look over to a gundam model I'm in the middle of building and laugh. Seriously, why do their giant robots not have posable joints that don't require gluing? I'm sad my FW anime robots need gluing - but I guess they can be posed, unlike GW plastics.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:00
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Broken Loose posted:Oh god, what did they do? Add another grot? Change the direction of the Mek's cigar? Put spinning effects on the balls? Nothing? Slightly altered his shoulders I think it was? He looks a tiny bit scrawnier. Not as bad as them charging 17$ for three two-point models in my book. (Or is that only two runts, since it's only two bases?)
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Jun 11, 2014 21:02
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Honestly the biggest 'haha gently caress no' for me with GW was, and bear in mind prior to this point I would still occasionally buy the odd model to paint (even though I haven't actively played any of their core games since 2007) because I enjoy the universes they've created, the £18 plastic space marine librarian. I quite liked the look of it, popped onto their site to find out how much it cost, expecting worst case scenario around £10-12 or so. £18! That was the point I had a chuckle, closed the browser window and decided all future money throwing would be in the general direction of wyrd miniatures, privateer press, mantic, hawk wargames et al. edit: put me down as another vote for 'angry at GW because I love their game worlds'
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Jun 11, 2014 21:27
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Just here to remind everyone, since I saw someone use the term 'marketing' in the last few pages, that GW does not actually have a marketing department of any kind. 
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Jun 11, 2014 21:38
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S.J. posted:Just here to remind everyone, since I saw someone use the term 'marketing' in the last few pages, that GW does not actually have a marketing department of any kind. that would actually explain a lot
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Jun 11, 2014 21:41
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Broken Loose posted:Oh god, what did they do? Add another grot? Change the direction of the Mek's cigar? Put spinning effects on the balls? Nothing? Can't tell if you are trolling or not, luckily I don't care 
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Jun 11, 2014 21:42
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Well he's definitely angrier. Also IIRC it's a duel KFF/Shokk Attack Gun kit but I could be wrong.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:45
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To be fair, didn't they come out and say a while back that finecast was an interim measure and that they still wanted to create every kit in plastic? Just looks like they're re-doing all the fun stuff first 
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Jun 11, 2014 22:21
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enri posted:To be fair, didn't they come out and say a while back that finecast was an interim measure and that they still wanted to create every kit in plastic? Just looks like they're re-doing all the fun stuff first Maybe, but that reeks of bullshit. They spent like 3-4 years developing finecast, there's no way it was intended to be an interim anything.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:23
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S.J. posted:Maybe, but that reeks of bullshit. They spent like 3-4 years developing finecast, there's no way it was intended to be an interim anything. They've definitely gone on record in the past saying that they wanted every range in plastic, it was around the time of the release of 3rd ed (with the swanky new marine plastics that became the basis of every marine kit ever) - can't pull specifics about the finecast thing from anywhere but just sure I heard it somewhere v  v If I ever went back to GW, it'd be on the proviso that finecast had gone for good, it's horrible  Plus, bear in mind that finecast was developed as an alternative to casting metals, the cost of which was becoming incredibly prohibitive - those 3-4 years developing finecast could have still netted them a saving in the long term over continuing to sell metal minis. edit: i.e. it may well have served its purpose and if that's the case, then there's no point in holding onto that development just because you put money into it. Especially since it's riddled with problems, general negativity from gamers, molds deteriorating quickly, etc.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:36
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The thing is that resin in general is a fine long term solution if you don't take a gigantic punt on everything involved with quality assurance. Heck, you can even do great multiparts / posables with it, which is one thing I often see talked about as a reason why you need to do plastics. As with so many goddamn other things it's a problem with GW and not an idea per se.
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Jun 11, 2014 23:51
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Indolent Bastard posted:Can't tell if you are trolling or not, luckily I don't care oh my god
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Jun 11, 2014 23:53
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What are the actual fantasy alternatives to warhammer these days? Kings of War looks OK, but I'm not sold on how generic it comes across. The line also seems really limited at the moment.
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Jun 12, 2014 05:25
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S.J. posted:Just here to remind everyone, since I saw someone use the term 'marketing' in the last few pages, that GW does not actually have a marketing department of any kind. I don't understand how they even have any investors. Marketing is such a core part of any major business that not having any just seems like a massive red flag of "WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING". I mean sure, they've got huge market share and brand recognition, but do they think that Coke pour millions of dollars into Superbowl ads for fun?
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Jun 12, 2014 05:31
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I'm going to add my birthday to the pool because why not? April 18, 2015 probably not gonna happen but I'll toss it in.
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Jun 12, 2014 09:08
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Atlas Hugged posted:What are the actual fantasy alternatives to warhammer these days? Kings of War looks OK, but I'm not sold on how generic it comes across. The line also seems really limited at the moment. Well, if you don't like their miniatures line you can use pretty much any comparably sized and based miniatures for KoW--in fact they actually encourage you to! (Not, I'm sure, that they wouldn't rather you buy their own minis, but they come right out and say, 'if you already have an army for another system, you can use it for our games.') It's really cool and one of the things that makes me want to start buying Mantic when I have a chance
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Jun 12, 2014 09:18
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Icon Of Sin posted:It was the ork warlord "Mag Uruk Thraka" for 40k, at least. Wao, You learn something new every day
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Jun 12, 2014 14:42
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JerryLee posted:Well, if you don't like their miniatures line you can use pretty much any comparably sized and based miniatures for KoW--in fact they actually encourage you to! (Not, I'm sure, that they wouldn't rather you buy their own minis, but they come right out and say, 'if you already have an army for another system, you can use it for our games.') One of the core armies in KoW is in fact solely a proxy army for use with historicals. Kingdoms of Men is actively designed to let you use whatever human historical/fantasy miniatures you want. Kind of wish they had in-house war machines for the army, mind, but it's pretty cool.
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Jun 12, 2014 18:16
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