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ulmont posted:It works really well for Abercrombie. It's not really meant to turn you on or make you feel better about the characters so much as to underline that they are broken. Yeah, it's definitely a missed criticism. Abercrombie's sex scenes are supposed to be gross and weird.
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May 22, 2014 17:15
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Doltos posted:Granted people keep coming back to how Kvothe fucks up constantly so he can't be a Mary Sue, but almost every single opinion that Kvothe has about women simply reeks of white knight horse poo poo. Like you said yourself, even Denna was like okay hold up a second how is my life any different than yours? You're still friendzoned for the same reasons and you're not going anywhere by being super charming/nice to me other than having me as a friend. Except Denna is always hanging out with dudes, bad and not, and tells Kvothe to gently caress off for being an rear end in a top hat? Like I don't disagree that Kvothe's got this fairy tale white knight thing going on but pretty much everyone else in the text, including his older self, is calling him on how poo poo he is in that respect. I mean, cringy sex is cringy sex but the payoff for that was him schmoozing up to Denna and saying "I know before I just kinda sat in a corner and resented these guys you were hanging around, and that was pretty dumb, but now LOOK AT ALL THESE WOMEN I'VE SEXED, I AM A MAN NOW, JUST LIKE YOUR BOYFRIENDS LOVE ME I'M GOOD AT SEX LET ME SEX YOU!" And she tells him to gently caress off, because he learned precisely the wrong lessons from the sex goddess. Like he goes through that nice guy phase, he goes through that whatever 'alpha' poo poo the internet likes to talk about, but she makes it pretty clear that he's loving up because he hasn't really bothered to figure out what's up with her, just his fantasy version of her. That's the real running motif: Kvothe is the guy who thinks he's so good that he jumps off third story windows because he's convinced his natural talents will kick in before he hits the ground.
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May 22, 2014 18:38
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Kvothe was friendzoned from day one. I eagerly anticipate him founding a group of Men's Rights Activists/Pick Up Artists next book.
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May 23, 2014 01:19
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keiran_helcyan posted:Kvothe was friendzoned from day one. I eagerly anticipate him founding a group of Men's Rights Activists/Pick Up Artists next book. I look forward to the scene where they all post hilarious image macros of Denna on their subreddit.
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May 23, 2014 01:56
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the JJ posted:That's the real running motif: Kvothe is the guy who thinks he's so good that he jumps off third story windows because he's convinced his natural talents will kick in before he hits the ground. In that case, he was convinced that Elodin's talents would save him before he hit the ground. That part was also hilarious.
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May 23, 2014 01:58
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I dunno but from Kvothe's testimony it seems as though Denna wanted to jump his bones from day one, but he is so focused on "treating her like a lady" and "protecting her" that he just wallows around until she isn't even interested anymore. There are no fewer than like 10 occasions I would have made a move if I were Kvothe. His problem at this point in the story is that they have grown apart ideologically and instead of letting her do her own thing like an emotionally healthy adult would do, he tries to control her like a douche. It's like being a leftist and finding out your girlfriend is a baptist republican. You either let it go and continue to bone, or you say your goodbyes. What you don't do is try to instruct them on the tenets of maoist third-worldism.
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May 23, 2014 12:03
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Except the baptist republicans in your analogy killed Kvothe's entire family when he was a little boy. And Denna has been recruited to their side without knowing the full scope of their evil. Telling her how awful they are was a good thing to do. Of course he messed it up because he's too damaged and emotionally stunted to be honest and direct. Wittgen fucked around with this message at 15:23 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 13:43
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Denna is an annoying character and I can't wait for Kvothe to kill her. He'll probably whine about how hard it was on him as well and it will be hilarious. What won't be hilarious is when he kills Simm.
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May 23, 2014 14:04
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the JJ posted:Except Denna is always hanging out with dudes, bad and not, and tells Kvothe to gently caress off for being an rear end in a top hat? Like I don't disagree that Kvothe's got this fairy tale white knight thing going on but pretty much everyone else in the text, including his older self, is calling him on how poo poo he is in that respect. I mean, cringy sex is cringy sex but the payoff for that was him schmoozing up to Denna and saying "I know before I just kinda sat in a corner and resented these guys you were hanging around, and that was pretty dumb, but now LOOK AT ALL THESE WOMEN I'VE SEXED, I AM A MAN NOW, JUST LIKE YOUR BOYFRIENDS LOVE ME I'M GOOD AT SEX LET ME SEX YOU!" And she tells him to gently caress off, because he learned precisely the wrong lessons from the sex goddess. Like he goes through that nice guy phase, he goes through that whatever 'alpha' poo poo the internet likes to talk about, but she makes it pretty clear that he's loving up because he hasn't really bothered to figure out what's up with her, just his fantasy version of her. That's the real running motif: Kvothe is the guy who thinks he's so good that he jumps off third story windows because he's convinced his natural talents will kick in before he hits the ground. Except she doesn't tell him to gently caress off and they have an awkward moment where Kvothe pops an inopportune boner while she's sunning herself on the rock, then awkwards his way out of it. At no point in time does Denna ever tell him to gently caress off and it sticks. They consistently meet up again and again, and then she left on good terms the last we read about her. The Walking Dad posted:I dunno but from Kvothe's testimony it seems as though Denna wanted to jump his bones from day one, but he is so focused on "treating her like a lady" and "protecting her" that he just wallows around until she isn't even interested anymore. Exactly. He had his shots. He was friendzoned because he was so busy trying to be RESPECTFUL that he missed his opportunities again and again. Like I said, I get it that Kvothe is telling the story, but Rothfuss himself is also super ingrained in internet feminism so it shines through his work.
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May 23, 2014 15:25
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I'm going to be so happy when Denna dies because she is the worst part of a story I otherwise like.
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May 24, 2014 00:08
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Above Our Own posted:I'm going to be so happy when Denna dies because she is the worst part of a story I otherwise like. I can't even remember the story, only scenarios. Sex goddess, retarded ninjas, dragon that eats trees, and so on and etc.
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Jun 5, 2014 00:42
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Kvothe cosplayer: I love the idea of Kvothe being distinctly goonish. From now on, this is how I'm picturing him. In dark alleys with Auri. Following Denna around. In the arms of Felurian.
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Jun 6, 2014 22:05
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I thought this series was alright for a new author, if a bit rough and juvenile. Then there was that whole bit aspie fantasy about dominating the goddess of sex. After that, I'm not sure I can do it anymore. Edit Spoilers. Just in case. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jun 8, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 23:07
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Dienes posted:Kvothe cosplayer: Yeah, holy poo poo, this picture was so on-point he's now Kvothe to me. Okay. Now they gotta make this into a movie. This look, Zapp Brannigan's voice, my god, most hilariously awesome movie ever. Just need Def Leppard to make the soundtrack.
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Jun 9, 2014 08:46
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Dienes posted:I love the idea of Kvothe being distinctly goonish. From now on, this is how I'm picturing him. In dark alleys with Auri. Following Denna around. In the arms of Felurian. Sim and Wil groan as Kvothe tries to tell them how he totally could have hosed Denna but she was a stupid slut that didn't recognize how good he was at Lute Hero.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:00
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So I'm reading Wise Man's Fear for the first time. Jesus Christ the Felurian bit is just cringeworthingly bad.
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Jun 10, 2014 02:48
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Dienes posted:Kvothe cosplayer: Which came first - the lute or the cosplay? 
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Jun 10, 2014 05:26
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Ravenfood posted:So I'm reading Wise Man's Fear for the first time. Jesus Christ the Felurian bit is just cringeworthingly bad. Hope you like 200 pages of random stupid names for things.
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Jun 10, 2014 13:30
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Ravenfood posted:So I'm reading Wise Man's Fear for the first time. Jesus Christ the Felurian bit is just cringeworthingly bad. It's not over yet, it somehow gets worse.
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Jun 10, 2014 14:29
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I liked the second book more than the first, but I hated huge sections of the second more than the first. Its really odd when I think back on it. Sex nymph minus the Ctheah (hands down the most interesting part and all of two paragraphs) and the Adem were just the hands down worst parts of the entire series. He skips over pirates and shipwrecks but then gives us thousands of words describing fake sex/fighting training. And now I honestly don't think he can wrap everything up in just one more book. I don't think I have more than one more in me of this series to be honest.
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Jun 10, 2014 15:30
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Doltos posted:It's not over yet, it somehow gets worse. Solice Kirsk posted:Hope you like 200 pages of random stupid names for things. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 15:50
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Solice Kirsk posted:I liked the second book more than the first, but I hated huge sections of the second more than the first. Its really odd when I think back on it. Sex nymph minus the Ctheah (hands down the most interesting part and all of two paragraphs) and the Adem were just the hands down worst parts of the entire series. He skips over pirates and shipwrecks but then gives us thousands of words describing fake sex/fighting training. And now I honestly don't think he can wrap everything up in just one more book. I don't think I have more than one more in me of this series to be honest. It's pretty obvious he's going to finish telling his story then the series is going to launch into present day Kvothe stuff for books 4-6 or however long Rothfuss wants to keep this gravy train rolling. Ravenfood posted:I know. Christ. The evil prophecy tree was really interesting, but the Adem was a strange combination of handtalk society stuff (that could have been interesting if it wasn't so long) and "yeah, okay, we get that you think that everyone should just have sex all the time". It just went into a weird place, like a teenager's fanservice idea of a perfect society. Then Kvothe literally yells "NOT ALL MEN!" about being raping, murdering bandits. We get it, dude. We get it. Also, I loving lost it when he gets back to the village and his Felurian story is believed because the barmaid looks at him and announces that he must be a sexhaver now. I was happy that Kvothe was finally leaving notHogwarts, but goddamn. Ademre was probably my least favorite part in the two books. I tolerated the 200 page bandit hunt and at least the Felurian part was funny in a cringey sort of way. Ademre was 200 pages of the same ideas reiterated over and over. Yes you guys are quiet, yes you're good warriors, yes you believe in some sort of moral code, yes you all don't care about being naked and loving each other, but did you really need to explain the intricacies of a place that you literally ended up getting Kvothe out of and stating that he's never going to go back? What was the loving point of all that then?! The second book started great, turned into complete poo poo midway through, then picked back up with the rapists, which then turned cringey again, then went full on cringe with Denna before ending on an okay note.
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Jun 10, 2014 16:35
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I hate Denna as a character because I find her totally uninteresting, but I didn't think it was that cringe worthy with their last meeting. She didn't trust Kvothe anymore because he ran around banging chicks when he got back while starting to buy into his own hype and then he blirted out "LOVE ME!" because he's a spergy idiot. Still no explanation of why she couldn't breathe though.
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Jun 10, 2014 17:03
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She forgot her inhaler.
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Jun 11, 2014 00:00
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Maybe panic at the murderous magical spaz confessing/demanding love.
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Jun 11, 2014 13:44
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I think I made a mistake rereading these recently. For some reason I thought the new book was coming out this year, but that doesn't seem to be happening.
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Jun 11, 2014 15:22
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think I made a mistake rereading these recently. For some reason I thought the new book was coming out this year, but that doesn't seem to be happening. There's a new book coming out, but it's not Doors of Stone. It's some standalone book about Auri.
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Jun 11, 2014 15:35
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Solice Kirsk posted:I hate Denna as a character because I find her totally uninteresting, but I didn't think it was that cringe worthy with their last meeting. She didn't trust Kvothe anymore because he ran around banging chicks when he got back while starting to buy into his own hype and then he blirted out "LOVE ME!" because he's a spergy idiot. Still no explanation of why she couldn't breathe though. Anxiety or something stupid. Denna never felt part of the story. She was just introduced out of the blue as someone who rode the caravan with Kvothe to the university, then for some reason became the main goal that Kvothe strove towards. Like I went into the books expecting him to spend every waking moment trying to hunt down the Chandrian, but then even the character was like, "Well I didn't really get anywhere finding the dudes who killed my troupe so lets just chase down this girl I met once so I can awkwardly friend zone myself for 400 pages"
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Jun 11, 2014 16:28
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Wittgen posted:There's a new book coming out, but it's not Doors of Stone. It's some standalone book about Auri. Has he made any mention about the third book yet? I tried browsing through his blog but I had to stop.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:18
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Hughmoris posted:Has he made any mention about the third book yet? I tried browsing through his blog but I had to stop.  He's been distributing copies to his "beta readers" for some time now, and editing based on feedback. I think that picture of a manuscript is over a year old now. No word on a release date.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:20
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:
I wonder how many trees were killed to print that mountain of a proof.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:22
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Doltos posted:Denna never felt part of the story. She was just introduced out of the blue as someone who rode the caravan with Kvothe to the university, then for some reason became the main goal that Kvothe strove towards.
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Jun 12, 2014 02:00
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crestfallen posted:That kind of fits with his character though. He's skilled with magic but he's still an impressionable young dude. A lot of young dudes fall in "love" with the first girl who gives them any attention. He is Joel from Eternal Sunshine that way. A lot of impressionable young dudes would also stick themselves into any girl that shows them the least bit of attention then stick with that girl until they go through post-pubescence rationalization about relationships. He had two different girls throwing themselves at him in the university but he politely declined m'ladies advances. But no, my issue with that is Denna's introduction didn't give a lick of a clue that she would later be important to the story. It was pretty much "I saw a hot girl coming here and she left, oh well, back to the Chandrian". It's bad writing that understandably got a lot of people confused as to why Denna was suddenly a constant re-occurring character over characters that actually had a bit of substance and explanation as to why they were in the story.
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Jun 12, 2014 17:13
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Fair point.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:06
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Doltos posted:A lot of impressionable young dudes would also stick themselves into any girl that shows them the least bit of attention then stick with that girl until they go through post-pubescence rationalization about relationships. He had two different girls throwing themselves at him in the university but he politely declined m'ladies advances. Before the story even started the Chronicler made mention of "The woman" that sent Kote into a near rage, and it was pretty obvious that said woman was Denna from the start.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:25
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pentyne posted:Before the story even started the Chronicler made mention of "The woman" that sent Kote into a near rage, and it was pretty obvious that said woman was Denna from the start. How? The start of the story was him going around with his troupe and then several chapters of his early life in Tarbean. By the time Denna was introduced 100+ pages passed, effectively putting The Woman out of our minds. Then when Denna was introduced it was literally like every other girl being introduced. She's beautiful, Kvothe notices her, and then they part ways. The Woman could have easily been Auri or Fela or that other hot girl at the university that inexplicably wants to bone Kvothe, or anyone at that musicians place he played at, or... Denna just makes no sense for the story. Even if her mysterious patron is one of the Chandrian, her being beaten by the Chandrian gives no extra motivation for Kvothe to go kill them. He already wants to murder them all for killing his family. She just doesn't seem to be worth anything in the story beyond being a strong, independent young woman who don't need no man.
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Jun 13, 2014 19:09
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Denna is like the fantasy world version of a manic pixie dream girl. Evrybody loves her and no man can have her and she's, like, super smart and super talented and super amazing and guys you just don't know! If anyone has ever seen the show Bones she is the print version of Angela. I can't wait until Kvothe fucks the entire world up for this one chick he has spent maybe one full month's worth of time with.
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Jun 13, 2014 20:40
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Isn't Denna supposed to be, like, an incarnation of Lyra or one of the Chandrian or the Moon (or all three at the same time)? I don't think she's just, like, some regular girl. Not that this justifies how Rothfuss writes her or anything. I'm just saying that I think it might be premature to write off her presence in the story as extraneous since Rothfuss has left a lot of hints that she's more than what she seems.
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Jun 13, 2014 21:17
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FiddlersThree posted:Isn't Denna supposed to be, like, an incarnation of Lyra or one of the Chandrian or the Moon (or all three at the same time)? I don't think she's just, like, some regular girl.
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Jun 13, 2014 21:19
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Auri's the one that readers keep attaching some sort of special meaning to, at least in the context of the Moon. Here's a link to Jo Walton's reread post where she summarizes what her readers have found about the relationship of Denna to the Moon. Personally, I think she's all three (but is mostly unaware of it), and she's on the run from the other Chandrian (for reasons she probably doesn't even know).
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Jun 13, 2014 21:33
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