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Is Groose a meme? I thought he was just a popular character.
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Jun 11, 2014 16:29
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I liked how Twilight Princess had a semi-mechanic where you reclaimed sections of the map from the bad guys. That made it feel more like a campaign where you accomplished something. That's sort of the main sticking point with a lot of Zelda games to me, this feeling that Link is waging a secret war which nobody apparently is aware of because your actions don't seem to have much effect outside of the zone where the dungeon happens to be. So what you're saying is, Taleworlds should develop the next Zelda crossover game thing?
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Jun 11, 2014 16:36
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DarkHamsterlord posted:Is Groose a meme? I thought he was just a popular character. If he's a meme, then he deserves that status. He was one of, if not the absolute, best character from Skyward Sword.
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Jun 11, 2014 16:36
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DarkHamsterlord posted:Is Groose a meme? I thought he was just a popular character. Everything popular is a meme
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Jun 11, 2014 16:36
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MokBa posted:it's practically progressive to introduce mostly female playable characters that aren't designed like a nerd's scantily-clad fantasy girl (like Bayonetta). It may surprise you, but Bayonetta was designed by a woman to be an empowering female character. And she's super loving badass, and fairly non-traditional too; tall and even a tiny bit curvy. The hair-suit thing is weird, but just because you're a little sexual doesn't mean you're nerd fantasy, Bayonetta kinda owns it. You gotta be careful you're not overthinking the PC stuff or else we can't break away from those defined roles in the first place. One woman's empowering is another woman's demeaning  Cool blog post where she talks about her different design decisions: http://platinumgames.com/2009/04/17/designing-bayonetta/ Dead or Alive, on the other hand, that's clearly nerd boy fanservice. chumbler posted:The real question is whether the Happy Mask Salesman will be the game's Lu Bu.  Yessssss
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 16:42
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Zelda's design in HW isn't really that cheesecakey, but it's kinda gauche. Hot pink with gold boobplate? Total fashion disaster.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:08
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Zaphod42 posted:It may surprise you, but Bayonetta was designed by a woman to be an empowering female character. And she's super loving badass, and fairly non-traditional too; tall and even a tiny bit curvy. The hair-suit thing is weird, but just because you're a little sexual doesn't mean you're nerd fantasy, Bayonetta kinda owns it. You gotta be careful you're not overthinking the PC stuff or else we can't break away from those defined roles in the first place. One woman's empowering is another woman's demeaning I haven't played that either so it's good to be corrected. It's hard not to get that impression though, especially in an industry as traditionally sexist as video games. But that's a different discussion for a different thread. I wonder if Hyrule Warriors will have many pre-OoT references or characters. Can we have Sahasrahla laying the smack on some dudes? Can Error and Bagu team up to take down a Moblin horde? These are the questions I have.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:32
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Supercar Gautier posted:Zelda's design in HW isn't really that cheesecakey, but it's kinda gauche. Hot pink with gold boobplate? Total fashion disaster. The little ornament at the end of her braid bugs me for some reason. How is it staying there? It's a ring, and it's at the very end so there's nothing there to hold it in. Otherwise Zelda has a cool design, and boob sorceress isn't so bad apart from there just not being much of a coherent theme beyond purple. There's enough diversity in clothing that a little cheesecake isn't that bad. If they were all boob sorceress then there would be a problem.
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Jun 11, 2014 18:59
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ChaosArgate posted:If he's a meme, then he deserves that status. He was one of, if not the absolute, best character from Skyward Sword. Hell, he's probably one of, if not the, greatest Zelda characters ever. Certainly the one with the most defined story arc. I did not care for Skyward Sword at all, but Groose was awesome.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:02
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Now that we've discussed the gender thing for pages and pages, I hope people won't be all angry when the game turns out to star regular non-customizable male Link.Hakkesshu posted:Hell, he's probably one of, if not the, greatest Zelda characters ever. Certainly the one with the most defined story arc. I did not care for Skyward Sword at all, but Groose was awesome. Yeah, Groose was great. He's Gaston, but then he realizes it and builds you a sweet rail cannon. How could anyone not like Groose?
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Jun 11, 2014 19:08
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chumbler posted:The little ornament at the end of her braid bugs me for some reason. How is it staying there? It's a ring, and it's at the very end so there's nothing there to hold it in. Looking at the high-res image shows that her hair is looped over the ring, so that's what's holding it. I have no explanation for the logistics of that hair loop, though.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:14
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Third Murderer posted:Now that we've discussed the gender thing for pages and pages, I hope people won't be all angry when the game turns out to star regular non-customizable male Link. A lot of goons got angry when Starbound let you choose between male and female, because there wasn't a third option. Even if (a huge if) they included male or female options, people would find a reason to get mad.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:15
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Third Murderer posted:Now that we've discussed the gender thing for pages and pages, I hope people won't be all angry when the game turns out to star regular non-customizable male Link. Not angry, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit disappointed. The game still looks gorgeous and I like mystery character's design regardless of gender or whether they're Link or Zelda or Aryll or the Happy Mask Salesman's second cousin once removed. They just have the opportunity to do something cool and I hope they take it.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:19
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chumbler posted:Not angry, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit disappointed. The game still looks gorgeous and I like mystery character's design regardless of gender or whether they're Link or Zelda or Aryll or the Happy Mask Salesman's second cousin once removed. They just have the opportunity to do something cool and I hope they take it. Just keep in mind that Nintendo have had the opportunity to change the protagonist of the series since 1986, and one cryptic comment doesn't actually suggest that it's going to happen. Nintendo fans do seem to have a bad habit of failing to distinguish between what the company said they would do and what fans imagined they would do. Having said that, I've thought about it overnight and now I want a game where you can pick between Link or Zelda, and each sees the story from a different perspective and accomplishes different things so you have to play them both to get the whole story. Either that or a game where you control both at the same time, like the Makar/Medlii bits in Wind Waker, with the option to have a second player control one of them. Get to it, Nintendo! 
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Jun 11, 2014 19:47
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I would very much love to see a game set in the Zelda universe where you can control a different character- like a spin-off series. LoZ is one of my favorite game series of all time but it's been all Link down the line. Playing as Zelda (and yes I am aware of the Wand of Gambeon thing) would be a nice change of pace. It'd be cool to see Hyrule from a different perspective.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:49
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Captain Mog posted:I would very much love to see a game set in the Zelda universe where you can control a different character- like a spin-off series. LoZ is one of my favorite game series of all time but it's been all Link down the line. Playing as Zelda (and yes I am aware of the Wand of Gambeon thing) would be a nice change of pace. It'd be cool to see Hyrule from a different perspective. You could always pick up Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland. 
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Jun 11, 2014 19:50
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I think we're running way too far with that simple little winknudge from Aonuma, when it's more likely that trailerperson is just Link's brother or something and Link's adventure begins with trying to save him from whatever is controlling the magibot.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:54
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I wonder why they don't just have a screen at the start of the next game: Which hero would you like? [Link] [Zelda] [Impa] [Groose] They're all in badass poses like, "bring it!" After you select one, let's say you picked Groose, it gives you a second screen: Who has been kidnapped? [Link] [Zelda] [Impa] They all have a scared, "help me!" look, or maybe they're tied up in rope Snydley Whiplash-style. After you select one, the story starts. It swaps the name/pronouns for the hero and kidnapee, and the non-selected ones show up as secondary characters. It's like, zero extra programming as long as they've got decent coders on their team. Third Murderer posted:... Having said that, I've thought about it overnight and now I want a game where you can pick between Link or Zelda, and each sees the story from a different perspective and accomplishes different things so you have to play them both to get the whole story... Though, this would be even more awesome. It just takes extra work to make branching story choices.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:18
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Blasphemeral posted:I wonder why they don't just have a screen at the start of the next game:
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Jun 11, 2014 21:21
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Groose needs to rescue Impa. The Groose is loose!
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Jun 11, 2014 21:26
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If you're not watching the Nintendo E3 stream, there's good news for people who want female Link!
Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 21:33
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In that there's a female Link?
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Jun 11, 2014 21:40
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CottonWolf posted:In that there's a female Link? It's Bayonetta.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:41
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Blasphemeral posted:Which hero would you like? If you select literally anything other than Groose, the game crashes, because they forgot to code another story and didn't think anybody else would select it
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Jun 11, 2014 21:51
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I would play a game about Zelda constantly rescuing Groose from increasingly silly and contrived situations.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:56
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Just... just give me a Zelda where all these awesome side characters you keep coming up with are chilling for no goddamn reason, Nintendo. Like, there's a huge clubhouse, and my whole Zelda gang sticks around and gives me items/quests/cool poses without asking. Wondering how Linebeck knows Groose? How there's three different Impas? Too bad. Too busy having adventures. No vocaloids allowed.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:00
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Blasphemeral posted:I wonder why they don't just have a screen at the start of the next game:  That would just be the very best thing. Blasphemeral posted:It's like, zero extra programming as long as they've got decent coders on their team. Do you even hear yourself? Just... never say anything like this again. Blasphemeral posted:Though, this would be even more awesome. It just takes extra work to make branching story choices. Yeah doing it without branching story would be fine, or changing the story in minor ways would be cool too, then the game would have tons more replayability.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:02
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Potsticker posted:I would play a game about Zelda constantly rescuing Groose from increasingly silly and contrived situations. "I detect a 99% chance that Groose has wandered into the dreaded cucco fields."
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Jun 11, 2014 22:03
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Zaphod42 posted:... Do you even hear yourself? Just... never say anything like this again... Yes, I do. Are you suggesting that they don't have good coders at Nintendo? Or are you suggesting that a small set of pronoun-text and character-model variables set at menu selection time isn't a valid concept? I don't follow your complaint...?
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Jun 11, 2014 22:16
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Blasphemeral posted:Yes, I do. You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about and trying to talk like you know what the code is going to look like from your armchair is just always a bad idea. And if you were a developer you'd probably know better. Just the combination of "zero extra programming" with "as long as they've got decent coders"; where to begin... If you want to say "it shouldn't be much work" then just say that and move on. Leave out the "decent coders" nonsense. I guess maybe I'm nitpicking your language, but as a developer its an easy pet peeve to have.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:20
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Dynasty warrior games aren't much work to begin with. Like they're bottom of the barrel action games. Capcom puts more work into a single Monster Hunter game than Koei puts into 3 DW games.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:23
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Zaphod42 posted:You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about and trying to talk like you know what the code is going to look like from your armchair is just always a bad idea. And if you were a developer you'd probably know better. No, it's not just nitpicking language. It is legitimately the number one easiest way to irritate any programmer. Combine it with "just", as in "it would just be", and you are guaranteed to not make any headway on your suggestion. It's basically the same thing as telling an artist that shading would be zero extra effort as long as he uses some filters in Photoshop, or telling a writer that it would be easy to adjust an entire chapter as long as he has a decent word editor. (And for the record, creating a system where he/she/him/her/fee/fi/fo/fum is inserted as per whatever pronoun the player has picked would not be "zero extra programming". Depending on the language they're using, it would likely be a full night, since it would also require adjusting every single line in the script that calls for it)
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Jun 11, 2014 22:31
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TerminusEst13 posted:No, it's not just nitpicking language. It is legitimately the number one easiest way to irritate any programmer. Combine it with "just", as in "it would just be", and you are guaranteed to not make any headway on your suggestion. And then QA, that's a huge thing. Everybody forgets the QA.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:33
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The main problem is that problem isn't anywhere near your programmers. Having multiple character choices is far more a burden on your art department and on the core gameplay design, assuming you don't wan't every character to play exactly the same. Similarly, every added option will require more time out of QA to make sure there's no problems with any of the varied combinations.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:34
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Zaphod42 posted:You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about and trying to talk like you know what the code is going to look like from your armchair is just always a bad idea. And if you were a developer you'd probably know better. I am a developer and that's why I put in those qualifiers. While I certainly wouldn't be so flippant were I actually quoting/scheduling time for the project, I feel that my argument is sound. If the code is written with this hero/victim select idea in mind in the first place, it really, honestly shouldn't be any more code or development effort. Let's look at the dialogs as an example. You've got all of the text dialog stored in memory somewhere. Instead of displaying static text ("he," "she"), you just always substitute in the heroPronoun/heroName/kidnapeeName/kidnapeePronoun variable, as appropriate, instead. It takes the same time and effort to write the dialogs. The same time to write the code. Since it's a simply a lookup it's an O(1) executional complexity, so it's not even a noticable change in cycle time. Finally, it's (basically) the same storage space in memory: rather than a dialog having "he" or "she" hardcoded in in text, instead it's your replacement escape character (say, 0x02) followed by the lookup code (say, enum.pronoun.heroPresent, which could be 0x01 or something similar). Still two bytes (assuming they're using ASCII or UTF-8, that is, otherwise it would be even less storage than hard-coding "he" in Unicode). But you're right that I don't know what the actual source looks like for modern Zelda games. Maybe you've even got insight that I don't. But I do know what's trivially easy with modern programming languages, and this idea is one of them. However, as I feel it's a derail and I don't need to fight over being right or wrong on the internet, that's all I'll say on the subject. Thanks so much though for getting on my case about it. Potsticker posted:The main problem is that problem isn't anywhere near your programmers. Having multiple character choices is far more a burden on your art department and on the core gameplay design, assuming you don't wan't every character to play exactly the same. Similarly, every added option will require more time out of QA to make sure there's no problems with any of the varied combinations. I was actually suggesting that they play exactly the same. If they didn't, yeah, that would be more work. We just got off of four+ pages of people whining about the main character's gender, and I proposed the simplest freaking idea for correcting that oversight. Blasphemeral fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 22:47
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Blasphemeral posted:I am a developer I'm not so sure when you say things like Blasphemeral posted:But I do know what's trivially easy with modern programming languages, and this idea is one of them. Or when you start talking about Big-O notation and confuse development time with performance; Linear lookup doesn't matter for dick. Its still non-zero effort. Storage space... dude you are missing the point. Blasphemeral posted:I was actually suggesting that they play exactly the same. If they didn't, yeah, that would be more work. We just got off of four+ pages of people whining about the main character's gender, and I proposed the simplest freaking idea for correcting that oversight. Even still, they have to use different animations, right? That's still at on of artist work, and then a ton of QA... Man I'm really tempted to call shenanigans on you. Put down the loving shovel.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:52
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As long as they tighten up the graphics on level 2, it should be fine.
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Jun 11, 2014 23:00
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Why would you even bother tokenizing strings when you could just pull a different string entirely? Not only would it be less effort on everyone's, but it's a hell of a lot easier when you go to localize the game for other languages. Oh, and it allows every character to be written with a more destinct "voice," not to mention if you have voice acting at all and need to pull a matching voice clip.
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Jun 11, 2014 23:02
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When considering how much work it would take to create and animate new playable characters, consider that for the Wii version of TP, instead of redoing Link's animations to make him a righty they mirror-flipped the entire world.
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Jun 11, 2014 23:07
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Tensokuu posted:
These press kit images are beautiful. Is there a place where a non-member-of-the-press can download the entire thing? Also, the official Youtube Stream of Hyrule Warriors (the treehouse live stuff from Tuesday afternoon/morning) where the moon got drug down from the sky has been set to private. Is it archived anywhere or is that video footage gone for good now? Spectacle Rock fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 23:10
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