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This is the one guy who will never EVER miss that single crucial melta shot.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:20
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Wow, they can get up to 5 per entry so for a fully squad 230 bucks. Wow, Orks really have to be one of the most expensive armies to play.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:29
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So there's no other sprues in that Big Mek kit? No KFF, or any other options? Think I'll pass...
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Jun 13, 2014 22:37
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Hollismason posted:Wow, they can get up to 5 per entry so for a fully squad 230 bucks. Wow, Orks really have to be one of the most expensive armies to play. This has reached the point of parody. I bought a 100 model army for a different game for that amount earlier this year.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:42
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Flash gitz are 53 dollars for 5. What. Seriously, Games Workshop, what the gently caress. Orks are the single easiest army to convert/kitbash/scratch build poo poo for by far. No one in their right mind is going to do anything other than look at those prices and go 'nah, that's okay, I'll use the billions of bitz I have lying around to make my own'.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:45
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Why are you arranging a game you don't want to play? My LGS has a small ongoing tournament going for the week. The prize is apparently something silly and minor. I think the idea was more just lets get some 7th edition games going. I got absolutely annhilated, the stormblade just sat there spewing out 30 S6 shots a round. The dude setup the terrain in such a painful way such that he basically sandwiched his Superheavy between the two pieces of the terrain and sandwiched the stormlord between them. Then setup an ADL infront. I also completely forgot that Vendetta's can only carry 6 models, which made my idea of suicide melta squads to take down the super heavy not going to happen. By turn 3, i had 1 veteran squad left, a vendetta, and an executioner. My blobs just melted to that gun, even in decent cover. Honestly the biggest problem was the fact that we had a grand total of 6 pieces of terrain.  Why can people bring super heavies into low point games. 
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Jun 13, 2014 22:47
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Have you actually looked at what is in the Flash Gitz box? It's a lot. I'd probably feel better paying 50 dollars for that than I would a box of Terminators. edit: if it's a 'tournament' that allows unbound lists it's probably just your lgs hoping people will buy a lot of poo poo for their 'wow i'm the first person ever to think of bringing a superheavy into a 1k point game!' lists
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Jun 13, 2014 22:48
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Have you actually looked at what is in the Flash Gitz box? It's a lot. I'd probably feel better paying 50 dollars for that than I would a box of Terminators. Yes, and it doesn't matter, because it doesn't make up for that price considering the points cost of the models. You could make Flash Gitz out of a number of much cheaper options. The options in terminator boxes are at least actual mechanical changes to the unit that you could use to justify it, the Flash Gitz options are purely aesthetic. An aesthetic that, other than silly pirate hats and maybe squigs, you can get easier and cheaper in other boxes. S.J. fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 22:54
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You can also make an army out of Legos from 15 years ago and play for free, what is your point? Flash Gitz are A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 22:58
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UberJumper posted:My LGS has a small ongoing tournament going for the week. The prize is apparently something silly and minor. I think the idea was more just lets get some 7th edition games going. Ouch. That sucks, dude. You probably needed to go with Special Weapon Teams with three meltas a piece in those Vendettas. Also, tanks. AV 14 laughs at S6, no matter how many shots it has.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:02
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:i agree, the eyes are also quite troubling Are you? Given GW's general behavior with regards to female models I am not at all. Think about it this way: those models are more progressive than the entire Imperial Guard and Space Marine model lines. Yeah. UberJumper posted:
So, two ways to handle this. If you really feel you don't have the models to play a fair game against him (and it's not a tournament or anything like that)... just don't play. Tell him "Look, dude, I don't think this is going to be a fun game for me so I'd rather not do this." Don't be passive-aggressive about it, just honestly tell him why you wouldn't enjoy it. Superheavies in small games are very unbalancing and while not impossible to beat, it requires very specific strategies to do so. If, for whatever reason, you really want to do that thing, though? It's achievable. You mentioned having at least one Vendetta- bring that. Put a Company/Platoon Command Squad or Special Weapon Squad with maximum Meltaguns inside of it. You'll be hitting side armor with Lascannons, which will do some damage, and then subsequently dropping 3-4 Melta shots into it and blasting off some more HP. A Leman Russ Vanquisher or Demolisher will also do some damage to it(with the former being preferred, but not absolutely.) Manticores are also quite excellent against them- S10 hitting side armor with Ordnance will usually strip d3 HP per turn. Scout Sentinels with Lascannons can also be obnoxious, although like most other things they are unlikely to do the job on their own. If you have access to allies, many of them can also help a lot. Drop Pods with Melta in them, Night Scythes with Haywire/Gauss, Lance weapons, etc, are all extremely dangerous to a superheavy tank. I can't really say why you or your friend are doing this, but understand that no matter how it goes down it will be extremely unbalanced in one way or another. Superheavies, when they work at all, work best in much larger games (1750+) and if he just wants to mess around with his huge cool toy, I would recommend trying something more like that instead. Edit: Oh, hrm. Well, this sort of thing is exactly why you should probably talk to whoever organized the thing and explain your concerns to them about allowing "anything goes" from the base book. 7E can be a fun game, but some of the rules straight from the book are stupid as hell. AbusePuppy fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 23:02
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UberJumper posted:My LGS has a small ongoing tournament going for the week. The prize is apparently something silly and minor. I think the idea was more just lets get some 7th edition games going. If other people had a problem with it, it might be worthwhile to talk to the store owner and those other players and figure out what you want going on locally. At my local store, we did a tournament of Escalation and then decided to keep it apart from the regular tournaments in 6th. After the tournament this Saturday, everyone is invited to sit around and talk about what we want to do for Unbound and Lords of War with 7th. Maybe do something similar?
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Jun 13, 2014 23:05
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:You can also make an army out of Legos from 15 years ago and play for free, what is your point? There are only 5 right arms in that whole box, so no you couldn't. You could, however, make a bunch of these guys out of Ork stuff that any Ork player already has lying around. I'm not making a commentary on the whole hobby, I'm commenting on those particular boxes and the faction that they're in 53 dollars for 5 22 point models in a high model count army is too much money! S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 23:10
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S.J. posted:There are only 5 right arms in that whole box, so no you couldn't. You could, however, make a bunch of these guys out of Ork stuff that any Ork player already has lying around. I'm not making a commentary on the whole hobby, shithead, I'm commenting on those particular boxes and the faction that they're in I'm not sure why you're resorting to namecalling, 3rd grade insult here, but I never said you were making observations about the hobby at large. I mean presumably if you have extra bodies you have extra right arms but if you think calling someone on the internet a 'shithead' is even offensive in this day and age that sort of next level thinking is probably beyond you. Here's what you do: You use the 100 extra Orks you have accumulated over the years, in combination with this box, to get 15 :wowza: Flash Gitz!
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Jun 13, 2014 23:14
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I already have a squad of Flashgitz made out of Blackreach Nobz. I am still going to pick up a box of those other Gitz cause they look cool. You only ever want to buy one box of Ork specialists though, the rest you can make easily and cheaply from blackreach/boyz kitz. My biggest problem is that I now want to re-base my models.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:14
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:but I never said you were making observations about the hobby at large. SUPER NEAT TOY posted:You can also make an army out of Legos from 15 years ago and play for free, what is your point? That's exactly what this is right here, actually You're right about the language though, sorry, I'll edit it out SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Here's what you do: You use the 100 extra Orks you have accumulated over the years, in combination with this box, to get 15 :wowza: Flash Gitz! Actually what you do is not buy the box at all because you almost certainly don't need it (especially if you end up buying any of the other new releases that will be coming out) and just get the same result. That box is really too expensive for the number of models you're getting, this is pretty drat straightforward and you'd have to be intentionally not reading this part of my post to not understand that S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 23:15
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I'm not sure why you're resorting to namecalling, 3rd grade insult here, but I never said you were making observations about the hobby at large. Probably because you are a terrible poster who's basically Noctis 2.0.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:19
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I know expecting goons to argue with full intellectual honesty is kind of a nonstarter, but comparing conversion/3rd party bits to lego men is a local high water mark for disingenuousness nonetheless. Also converting those flash gits from your "100 extra Orkz" is exactly what people ought to do, the unjustified logical leap is thinking you should buy GW's shiny new shrink wrapped bullshit to do it.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:19
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I think it's an alright price if you don't already have a good bits box. Because after one or two of these kits, you'll have a good bits box.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:23
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Are the new Mek guns a different unit to big gunz? I have 9 of the old chassis and now I am going to have to convert up some more. I love big-gunz. Enough of you bought this guy: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Ork-Flash-Git-with-Targeting-Squig Gave GW the idea didn't ya!
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Jun 13, 2014 23:26
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JerryLee posted:I know expecting goons to argue with full intellectual honesty is kind of a nonstarter, but comparing conversion/3rd party bits to lego men is a local high water mark for disingenuousness nonetheless. Buying GW's product has always been the most expensive way to play their game, this isn't really new. If you can justify paying their premium, go ahead and do it, and if you can't, like has been said, there are many cheaper ways to play the game. I'm making the point that 'I can do it for cheaper!' isn't really a logical debating point wrt pricing in a luxury hobby. Pay for their stuff if you want, it's good quality and you're getting a lot of options, and don't if you don't. I don't know if there has ever been Flash Gitz models (I don't think so) so converting them has largely been an issue of putting a big gun and an Ork, but now that there's an aesthetic developed I don't think it's that far of a reach to justify buying a box to have the necessary pirate bitz to make 10 or 15 or whatever. Ogryns are a 3-man kit and are nearly 50 dollars and you're not likely to be able to do anything with the leftovers from the box.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:29
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It looks like Mek guns have replaced big guns completely.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:29
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Is anybody else feeling that he newer models which I understand are computer designed have no soul compared with properly a sculpted ones. Looking at SRM's space marines of yesteryear is amazing. They just have so much character. I like having posable miniatures which are just jumping in quality but the single models just don't pop the way they used to.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:32
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Oh man... The big guns are $67AU... I was expecting to pay that for a box of three... Killa kanz are $74AU for 3. They seem pretty comparable. Guess I'll be kitbashing my old gorkamorka gear after all.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:32
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Ogryns cost way too much for the models too Again, no one is making broad sweeping generalizations of the hobby like you're implying ("blah blah in a luxury hobby" - yes you are being too general), I'm talking about this specific kit in the context of this specific army. This is a badly priced product that, unlike a lot of their other badly priced products, are circumvented by their already existing less badly priced products S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 23:33
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JackMack posted:Is anybody else feeling that he newer models which I understand are computer designed have no soul compared with properly a sculpted ones. Looking at SRM's space marines of yesteryear is amazing. They just have so much character. I like having posable miniatures which are just jumping in quality but the single models just don't pop the way they used to. To be fair, these are meant to be fielded as a large group. I'll gladly take some less characterful models to fill out an army and use hyper-individuals to play Inquisitor or another skirmish game. Also, a lot of the older ones were crap. Check solegends.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:36
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JackMack posted:Is anybody else feeling that he newer models which I understand are computer designed have no soul compared with properly a sculpted ones. Looking at SRM's space marines of yesteryear is amazing. They just have so much character. I like having posable miniatures which are just jumping in quality but the single models just don't pop the way they used to. Is this the 40k equivalent to "vinyl just sounds more natural, man". To actually respond. I have a bunch of 2E metals and I think it's the fact that poses are actually part of the design. The new kits are loaded with options, sure, but it's up to the modeler to assemble and pose them. Often those models come out looking quite unnatural cause there's only so much you can do with squatting legs and generically angled arms. When a sculptor actually designs the pose of a model and makes it dynamic that's what gives it soul.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:43
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Are they computer designed? I thought GW still sculpted.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:43
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Re: Stormlord in 1k Here's what I would have run based on the models I own. Your own availability may differ, of course. code:Not guaranteed, but I'd feel reasonably confident with this list versus a Stormlord and friends.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:47
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Whenever the "it's a luxury hobby" talking point gets raised to defend prices (usually in regards to 40k or MTG) it always seems to miss the point that it doesn't actually prove anything in context--you can still make an apples-to-apples comparison with other products in the same industry to show that prices are egregious.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:47
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JerryLee posted:Whenever the "it's a luxury hobby" talking point gets raised to defend prices (usually in regards to 40k or MTG) it always seems to miss the point that it doesn't actually prove anything in context--you can still make an apples-to-apples comparison with other products in the same industry to show that prices are egregious. Not even the same industry... The same product line; Mek gunz VS Killa Kanz!!
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Jun 13, 2014 23:59
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JerryLee posted:Whenever the "it's a luxury hobby" talking point gets raised to defend prices (usually in regards to 40k or MTG) it always seems to miss the point that it doesn't actually prove anything in context--you can still make an apples-to-apples comparison with other products in the same industry to show that prices are egregious. I just don't generally see the point with all the complaints about prices. It is poo poo when it rains on you. Lets not fill a thread stating the obvious. I would rather spend my time reading and writing about other poo poo than endlessly discuss why GW should lower its prices. I spend about £30-50 on GW stuff a year from GW and basically convert my models from salvaged Ebay scrap. Lets talk about conversions rather than engage in a pointless debate:  Three flashgitz converted. They are a mix of spare Nob combi-shoota arms I got as bitz and big choppa arm spares. The gunz are bitz of burna, Big Choppa, kombi-blastas and stereo cable from poundland.  Each of these buggies cost me around £8 in bitz with £5 of that coming from ebay prices for landspeeders.  Blackreach boyz with greenstuff and spare packs. poo poo, I still buy the odd model from GW. That and ebay keep me rolling in Bitz. I have too many though. I have a 80 litre box full of bitz, supplies and spares. Raphus C fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 00:02
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Raphus C posted:I have too many though. I have a 80 litre box full of bitz, supplies and spares. Send em to me.
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Jun 14, 2014 00:20
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Can we not get into the whole price debate again? I agree that GW's pricing policy is poo poo, but we get the same argument every.. single.. release, and with the new release schedule it's getting old hearing the same complaints EVERY loving WEEK. In actual content, I finally caved in and ordered in an Imperial Knight (and didn't buy the Codex back when it was halfway relevant, ha!) - I'm just trying to decide which one I want to build it as. The Paladin's 2-shot battlecannon sounds pretty juicy but I'm personally leaning towards the Errant with its giant loving melta cannon - S9 melta is nothing to sneeze at, and being AP1 it should also vaporize 2+ models nicely - my usual opponents seem to like terminators and centurions so that's a definite big plus. The 'shorter' range isn't exactly an issue at 36" either. My Marines are pretty much geared towards short-range combat anyhow, so I pretty much imagine the Errant spearheading the assault with its melta cannon, stomps and D-strength chainsaw arm.
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Jun 14, 2014 00:29
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Drake_263 posted:Can we not get into the whole price debate again? I agree that GW's pricing policy is poo poo, but we get the same argument every.. single.. release, and with the new release schedule it's getting old hearing the same complaints EVERY loving WEEK. Just as a final note that's more meta than about prices per se: maybe folks should post about prices (one way or the other) in the GW death pool thread instead. That's what I tried to do when I had something to say about Kaysette's original post, but then the conversation took off in here anyway. 
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Jun 14, 2014 00:36
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Drake_263 posted:In actual content, I finally caved in and ordered in an Imperial Knight (and didn't buy the Codex back when it was halfway relevant, ha!) - I'm just trying to decide which one I want to build it as. The Paladin's 2-shot battlecannon sounds pretty juicy but I'm personally leaning towards the Errant with its giant loving melta cannon - S9 melta is nothing to sneeze at, and being AP1 it should also vaporize 2+ models nicely - my usual opponents seem to like terminators and centurions so that's a definite big plus. The 'shorter' range isn't exactly an issue at 36" either. My Marines are pretty much geared towards short-range combat anyhow, so I pretty much imagine the Errant spearheading the assault with its melta cannon, stomps and D-strength chainsaw arm. There are a few things I would consider when deciding which Knight to build. (Mine are magnetized so it's not an issue, but you have to make a few compromises when modeling them to achieve that, so it's understandable if not everyone wants to.) First of all, the Paladin comes with an extra Stubber. Doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, but it comes in surprisingly handy, since you are effectively doubling your "off-hand" firepower and lets you set up as many as three potential charge options in case you need to hedge your bets. Second, does the rest of your list have a lot of Melta or AP2? From the sound of it ("short-ranged firefight") you probably already do, which makes the need for the Thermal Cannon less pressing- it's not that much better than a Meltagun at killing tanks in many cases. I often field mine in xenos armies where access to Melta is very limited, but Imperial forces don't typically have that problem. Third, remember the new damage table- even Melta only has a 33% chance of killing a vehicle instantly, whereas the two hits from a Battle Cannon can potentially strip off two HP from a tank. Lastly, remember that you always have your melee weapon and Stomps to take care of different types of targets if needed- the Str D will kill most things like Terminators quite well and those S6 AP4 blasts will do a real number on hordes very quickly. At the end of the day, neither of them is really the "wrong" choice. The Paladin tends to be a bit more flexible, since it's better against hordes, light tanks, etc, without losing all functionality against heavier targets; the Errant gives you a more unique tool and can be a very good solution to some of the obnoxious new units that will be floating around (AV13/14 especially.) I personally lean slightly towards the Paladin, but they both are quite functinoal.
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Jun 14, 2014 00:50
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JerryLee posted:(usually in regards to 40k or MTG) At least once you buy a model, you can use it forever (except in rare cases). Magic cards you will often find you're perfect, $500 deck is completely illegal after 6 months. As far I know, Warmachine, Flames of War, Malufax and infinity all have the same policy. Only after I painted the eyes on my Sternguard do i remember Ultramarine vets have white helmets.  Something I always wish they'd expand on in 40k lore is the state of Terra. There's lots of hints, like the Imperial Palace is built over the Himalayas, and the seas are gone, but not much else. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 01:14
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:you are aware you can still do this, right? the box comes with all four guns. Oh, man, I just saw the box itself. I just fell for GW's product page--should've been on the lookout for that since they sell the 2 Orkanauts "separately."  PROCEEDING AS PLANNED. That said, using these would give me poo poo-tons of stands for the Gunz since I don't have the spare vehicle bits lying around to convert Mek Gunz properly.
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Jun 14, 2014 01:26
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I will actually probably buy a Knight if they make a Chaos Knight kit, I won't be able to stop myself > . You can though now for whatever reason, ally with Imperial Knights if Chaos, as they are Come the Apocalypse. Actually i think everyone can ally with anyone else. So Tyranids could get a knight.
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Jun 14, 2014 01:51
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Hollismason posted:Actually i think everyone can ally with anyone else. So Tyranids could get a knight. Von Humboldt fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 01:53
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