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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The damages are so low - if they exist at all - it doesn't matter.

That's thinking like a lawyer.

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woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012
Assault is like rules I remember from my elementary school that had a big gravel parking lot:


They can't just say "don't throw rocks", because then everyone kicks rocks or bats them. They can't say don't make a rock propel through the air by any means, because then kids still do dumb poo poo with rocks like bring them inside and leave them on chairs. "Don't touch rocks" "Don't cause rocks to be touched"... there's always a loophole and every kid just dogpiles through the loophole. Finally they just have to say "don't cause anything to contact anything by any means, ever".

bend it like baked ham
Feb 16, 2009

Fries.
Any qualified law goons in here familiar with the Star Citizen saga? I:butt:ANAL but am trying to understand exactly what legal relationship/responsibility/liability exists between their post-Kickstarter supporters and themselves.

I get that anything raised via Kickstarter is basically "free money" with no legal strings attached (at least til that court case in Washington says otherwise), but what about the $40+ million that they collected via their own website?

Everybody still talks as if people dropping money on that stuff now are doing it as "supporters" and not customers, that RSI doesn't owe them poo poo, etc.

So if I drop :10bux: on their site for literally "???", am I not entering into a normal sales contract, with the usual consumer protections and expectation of eventual delivery? It's not a charitable donation, and if it isn't a normal sale then what the gently caress is it?

When the inevitable class action gets launched against this thing, on what grounds will it be? Or will regulators step in?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge

e: Woozle, weren't you the goon with the pirate updates? Anything new?

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

Mentos Dan posted:

e: Woozle, weren't you the goon with the pirate updates? Anything new?

It's all set off for trial in July I think

The Dagda
Nov 22, 2005

Mentos Dan posted:


So if I drop :10bux: on their site for literally "???", am I not entering into a normal sales contract, with the usual consumer protections and expectation of eventual delivery? It's not a charitable donation, and if it isn't a normal sale then what the gently caress is it?


I don't know anything about Star Citizen, but if you just straight up give the entity money it's a gift. If you gave your friend ten bucks it would not be a sale of anything or a charitable donation either.

bitter almond
Jul 29, 2012

Never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention.

Mentos Dan posted:

Any qualified law goons in here familiar with the Star Citizen saga? I:butt:ANAL but am trying to understand exactly what legal relationship/responsibility/liability exists between their post-Kickstarter supporters and themselves.

I get that anything raised via Kickstarter is basically "free money" with no legal strings attached (at least til that court case in Washington says otherwise), but what about the $40+ million that they collected via their own website?

Everybody still talks as if people dropping money on that stuff now are doing it as "supporters" and not customers, that RSI doesn't owe them poo poo, etc.

So if I drop :10bux: on their site for literally "???", am I not entering into a normal sales contract, with the usual consumer protections and expectation of eventual delivery? It's not a charitable donation, and if it isn't a normal sale then what the gently caress is it?

When the inevitable class action gets launched against this thing, on what grounds will it be? Or will regulators step in?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge

e: Woozle, weren't you the goon with the pirate updates? Anything new?

And I'm curious as to how kickstarter monies are taxed, and how they are reported, income-wise. Like, if someone raises 25k for their project, but is dodging child support and claiming poverty.

dvgrhl
Sep 30, 2004

Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?
Soiled Meat
Contract law hypothetical: would modifications to a signed contract done via email correspondence typically hold up if challenged in court? To help narrow scope, let's assume the contract in question is a property lease, and the change is limited to modifying the termination date. Both parties are in agreement to the modification.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
If both parties are in agreement, why do you care what happens in court?

If it worries you, just draft and sign a new lease.

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
A mutually agreed modification via a separate writing would be effective to modify the contract so long as the original writing doesn't have any language placing special requirements on any subsequent modification.

ceebee
Feb 12, 2004
Cross post from the moving/apartment hunting thread, figured you guys could help me out as well :)

I've got a quick question about termination of a lease due to loss of employment. My company is going bankrupt and laying us off this week, I don't think I'll be able to afford to live here another month if I don't get paid so I'm planning on leaving by the end of this month and moving back home. However there is still the month of July left on the lease.

I talked to the landlord and he told me that I would forfeit my security deposit (1 months rent, $1100) and I would have to pay the remainder of the 30 day notice from today (June 16th-July 15th) which would be about $550. I'm curious about the validity of this and whether or not I might be able to avoid having to not only forfeit my security deposit but pay for half a month that I will already be gone by (I plan on being completely out of here by June 30th).

If anybody could give me advice or let me know if this is legally okay, and the steps I should do to protect myself otherwise that would be great. I'm not looking to screw over anybody, I just want to be able to afford enough gas to get myself 3000 miles away back to my hometown.

bitter almond
Jul 29, 2012

Never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention.
Very much depends on the state. From what I understand, in Texas as a landlord, I have to make a good faith effort to find a tenant for that month, rather than automatically withholding the deposit.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

ceebee posted:

Cross post from the moving/apartment hunting thread, figured you guys could help me out as well :)

I've got a quick question about termination of a lease due to loss of employment. My company is going bankrupt and laying us off this week, I don't think I'll be able to afford to live here another month if I don't get paid so I'm planning on leaving by the end of this month and moving back home. However there is still the month of July left on the lease.

I talked to the landlord and he told me that I would forfeit my security deposit (1 months rent, $1100) and I would have to pay the remainder of the 30 day notice from today (June 16th-July 15th) which would be about $550. I'm curious about the validity of this and whether or not I might be able to avoid having to not only forfeit my security deposit but pay for half a month that I will already be gone by (I plan on being completely out of here by June 30th).

If anybody could give me advice or let me know if this is legally okay, and the steps I should do to protect myself otherwise that would be great. I'm not looking to screw over anybody, I just want to be able to afford enough gas to get myself 3000 miles away back to my hometown.

No, we cannot give you advice, but we can give you information. The lease document itself will govern the specifics of whether or not this is permissible. Without reading the lease, no one in this thread can tell you whether or not the landlord has the right to withhold the entirety of the security deposit. However, this is a typical consequence of breaking a lease early.

EDIT: Also, in most states the Landlord has 30 days from when the lease terminates to give you back your deposit, so its not like he would be handing it to you on your move-out date, anyways.

If I were you, I wouldn't count on having this money for your road trip.

blarzgh fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jun 15, 2014

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

dvgrhl posted:

Contract law hypothetical: would modifications to a signed contract done via email correspondence typically hold up if challenged in court? To help narrow scope, let's assume the contract in question is a property lease, and the change is limited to modifying the termination date. Both parties are in agreement to the modification.

Most contracts contain a "no subsequent (oral) modification clause" which can, along with the other terms the parties seek to modify, be subsequently modified.

In other words, if you move out on the newly agreed upon date and the landlord sues you for the remainder due under the original, unmodified contract, the landlord is going to look dumb as poo poo arguing to the judge that "No, your honor, these emails don't count because they're unsigned!"

Particularly if the landlord agrees, via email, that these modifications will be binding despite being unsigned.

bigpolar
Jun 19, 2003
Sounds like you would come out ahead just finishing the lease and turning in your keys early.

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

blarzgh posted:

Particularly if the landlord agrees, via email, that these modifications will be binding despite being unsigned.

Even email can be signed: 15 U.S. Code §§ 7001 - 7006

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

All that is needed to create a contract is a meeting of the minds and an exchange of consideration. You can modify a written contract orally if the parties agree to do so notwithstanding any clauses in it.

The statutes of frauds come into this a bit sometimes.

euphronius fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jun 15, 2014

fork bomb
Apr 26, 2010

:shroom::shroom:

euphronius posted:

All that is needed to create a contract is a meeting of the minds and an exchange of consideration. You can modify a written contract orally if the parties agree to do so notwithstanding any clauses in it.

The statutes of frauds come into this a bit sometimes.

Judge Judy taught me that a written contract can only be modified in writing, not orally.

The written contract will still supersede any handshake agreements unless new terms are put in writing and agreed upon.

fork bomb fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jun 15, 2014

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

fork bomb posted:

Judge Judy taught me that a written contract can only be modified in writing, not orally.

The written contract will still supersede any handshake agreements unless new terms are put in writing and agreed upon.

Judge Judy is wrong.

The written contract will generally supersede any handshake agreement if executed after the handshake deal.

blarzgh fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jun 15, 2014

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012
Don't listen to any of these guys.



Just be prepared to forge a signed addendum to the lease and you're good to go.

dvgrhl
Sep 30, 2004

Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?
Soiled Meat
Yeah I'm beginning to think that's best as relying on forged email headers leaves too much in question. Thanks!

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

Remember that the addendum should include a clause that it is signed pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, otherwise the other party will be able to get out of it by pointing out that the admiralty court has no jurisdiction!

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Ashcans posted:

Remember that the addendum should include a clause that it is signed pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, otherwise the other party will be able to get out of it by pointing out that the admiralty court has no jurisdiction!

By including a reference to a UN document, however, you recognizes the sovereignty of the UN and the contract becomes only enforceable in The Hague.

(Seriously gently caress UNCLOS 95)

mancalamania
Oct 23, 2008
Apartment/renting question for Queens, NY:

I live on the first floor of a three-family house. Today, police and the DOB showed up with a warrant to search the house, investigating an Illegal Conversion. I ended up giving the warrant to my landlord, but based on what they said/ showed me, the Certificate of Occupancy lists this as a two-family house and the first-floor is not listed as rentable. I can't find much concrete info online about what will actually happen now-- I've read they CAN order us to vacate immediately, but I've also read they will only do that if the conditions are deemed unsafe. However, it also seems like it's really rare that it ever reaches the point of the DOB/police investigating in person? Any idea on if/when they will ask us to vacate, and if there's anything we can do to fight this? Should I expect to be told to vacate in the middle of the night? Tomorrow? A week, a month?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

mancalamania posted:

Apartment/renting question for Queens, NY:

I live on the first floor of a three-family house. Today, police and the DOB showed up with a warrant to search the house, investigating an Illegal Conversion. I ended up giving the warrant to my landlord, but based on what they said/ showed me, the Certificate of Occupancy lists this as a two-family house and the first-floor is not listed as rentable. I can't find much concrete info online about what will actually happen now-- I've read they CAN order us to vacate immediately, but I've also read they will only do that if the conditions are deemed unsafe. However, it also seems like it's really rare that it ever reaches the point of the DOB/police investigating in person? Any idea on if/when they will ask us to vacate, and if there's anything we can do to fight this? Should I expect to be told to vacate in the middle of the night? Tomorrow? A week, a month?

I'll email some NY attorneys/people I know tomorrow, and get back to this thread. I doubt anyone will be able to give you a definitive timeline, though.

mancalamania
Oct 23, 2008

blarzgh posted:

I'll email some NY attorneys/people I know tomorrow, and get back to this thread. I doubt anyone will be able to give you a definitive timeline, though.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

chemosh6969
Jul 3, 2004

code:
cat /dev/null > /etc/professionalism

I am in fact a massive asswagon.
Do not let me touch computer.
So how rich would the family of the hit TV show Jane the Virgin be, if it has any resemblance to reality? I can't imagine the doctor would be too happy with any results.

It bothers me every time I see the commercial where Jane and the doctor are in the room alone together and the doctor says she accidentally artificially inseminated the 15 year old, like it was just some minor mistake.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

chemosh6969 posted:

So how rich would the family of the hit TV show Jane the Virgin be, if it has any resemblance to reality? I can't imagine the doctor would be too happy with any results.

It bothers me every time I see the commercial where Jane and the doctor are in the room alone together and the doctor says she accidentally artificially inseminated the 15 year old, like it was just some minor mistake.

:stare: What the gently caress?

quote:

Set in Miami, the series will detail the surprising and unforeseen events that take place in the life of Jane Villanueva, a hard-working, religious young Latina woman whose family tradition and a vow to save her virginity until her marriage to a detective is shattered when a doctor accidentally artificially inseminates her by mistake during a checkup. And to make matters worse, the biological donor is a married man, a former playboy and cancer survivor who is not only the new owner of the hotel where Jane works, but was also her former teenage crush.

:stare: Yeah definitely not clearing my schedule for that one.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
Hahahahaha holy gently caress ABC is the worst channel.

During a checkup? You couldn't have had her have some emergency surgery or something? What part of the checkup involves the doctor shoving a turkey baster up your vagina and just lettin loose?

Big Bowie Bonanza
Dec 30, 2007

please tell me where i can date this cute boy
The check up was at General Hospital and he just looked at her.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012

Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out
Of course it's based on a telenovela from Venezuela. Jesus Christ.

chemosh6969
Jul 3, 2004

code:
cat /dev/null > /etc/professionalism

I am in fact a massive asswagon.
Do not let me touch computer.

pathetic little tramp posted:

Hahahahaha holy gently caress ABC is the worst channel.

Worse than that. It's the CW.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

FordPRefectLL posted:

The check up was at General Hospital and he just looked at her.
See in this case it wouldn't be assault

DBZFIGHTERS
May 23, 2008
Okay, so my friend ran into problem with traffic cops in Pennsylvania.

He was pulled over by the cops after he sped through yellow light. The cop claimed he ran a red light and gave him a ticket. My friend had an event data recorder (sort of like a black box in airplanes) installed in his car, so he checked the video and realized the cop was 100% wrong. The lights were clearly yellow.

So he appealed the ticket and in court, the cop claimed my friend violated the PA Wiretapping Act and wanted to arrest my friend on the spot.

After some preliminary legal research, it seems the cop was full of BS.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/legal/2014/06/10/Vehicle-Speed-Information-From-Black-Box-Ruled-Admissible/stories/201406100007

http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policepractices/your-right-record-and-observe-police/taking-photos-video-and-audio/

Unfortunately, the judge at the time agreed with the cop and ruled against my friend. All he did was prevent the cop from arresting my friend.

Should my friend further appeal the traffic court decision? It would appear he is completely in the right to use the video recording to prove his case.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

DBZFIGHTERS posted:

Okay, so my friend ran into problem with traffic cops in Pennsylvania.

He was pulled over by the cops after he sped through yellow light. The cop claimed he ran a red light and gave him a ticket. My friend had an event data recorder (sort of like a black box in airplanes) installed in his car, so he checked the video and realized the cop was 100% wrong. The lights were clearly yellow.

So he appealed the ticket and in court, the cop claimed my friend violated the PA Wiretapping Act and wanted to arrest my friend on the spot.

After some preliminary legal research, it seems the cop was full of BS.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/legal/2014/06/10/Vehicle-Speed-Information-From-Black-Box-Ruled-Admissible/stories/201406100007

http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policepractices/your-right-record-and-observe-police/taking-photos-video-and-audio/

Unfortunately, the judge at the time agreed with the cop and ruled against my friend. All he did was prevent the cop from arresting my friend.

Should my friend further appeal the traffic court decision? It would appear he is completely in the right to use the video recording to prove his case.

"If you believe your right to protest has been violated, please contact the ACLU of Pennsylvania toll-free at 877-PGH-ACLU (Western Office) or 877-PHL-ACLU (Eastern Office)."

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

DBZFIGHTERS posted:

Okay, so my friend ran into problem with traffic cops in Pennsylvania.

He was pulled over by the cops after he sped through yellow light. The cop claimed he ran a red light and gave him a ticket. My friend had an event data recorder (sort of like a black box in airplanes) installed in his car, so he checked the video and realized the cop was 100% wrong. The lights were clearly yellow.

So he appealed the ticket and in court, the cop claimed my friend violated the PA Wiretapping Act and wanted to arrest my friend on the spot.

After some preliminary legal research, it seems the cop was full of BS.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/legal/2014/06/10/Vehicle-Speed-Information-From-Black-Box-Ruled-Admissible/stories/201406100007

http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policepractices/your-right-record-and-observe-police/taking-photos-video-and-audio/

Unfortunately, the judge at the time agreed with the cop and ruled against my friend. All he did was prevent the cop from arresting my friend.

Should my friend further appeal the traffic court decision? It would appear he is completely in the right to use the video recording to prove his case.

HE (YOU) SHOULD GET AN ATTORNEY


Not tomorrow, not after breakfast, NOW. Well, it will probably have to wait until tomorrow, but get an attorney as soon as humanly possible.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

woozle wuzzle posted:

I will be your attorney, DBZFIGHTERS

That's nice of you to volunteer. I hope you don't edit your post later and try to pretend you did not establish attorney-client privilege just now.

DBZFIGHTERS
May 23, 2008
I don't need a lawyer...my friend might.

I'll just have him call the number.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

If I trick a lawyer into saying "This establishes a client-attorney relationship with ricola", are they my lawyer and can I sue them for not giving me legal advice?

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

Devor posted:

That's nice of you to volunteer. I hope you don't edit your post later and try to pretend you did not establish attorney-client privilege just now.

Hereby I am your attorney, establishing an attorney-client relationship. I am giving you bona fide legal advice, intending that you follow it. I take on a fiduciary responsibility for your affairs, and purposefully invoke all of my obligations under the professional rules. In this capacity, I legally direct you to give me all of your money.


Ooogity Boogity.

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woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

DBZFIGHTERS posted:

I don't need a lawyer...my friend might.

I'll just have him call the number.

Your friend needs a criminal attorney, not the motherfucking ACLU. Reread that advice. "If you believe your right to protest has been violated" Sweet jesus...


They need to call 1-800 "google for a god drat local criminal attorney". There can be tight deadlines and requirements to appeal. No kidding, tomorrow they don't get to eat lunch until they've got an appointment scheduled.

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