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From a gameplay perspective, I don't really care, both ways are fine. But it's a bit of a clumsy retcon, which is why they poke fun at it in ME3.
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Jun 15, 2014 02:31
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as someone new to the game but didn't get any DLC (because the stupid Trilogy didn't give any for ME3 except the multiplayer pass) is it worth forking over $20?
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Jun 15, 2014 07:16
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Leviathan sure maybe, definitely get Citadel if you love mass effect a whole lot, only get Omega if you really like the combat in 3. edit: Oh and if it didn't come with From Ashes, grab that poo poo cuz the bonus party member rules.
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Jun 15, 2014 07:24
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JawKnee posted:lol what? so them just happening to be all over the place, including places they shouldn't be is a successful retcon? It made the game better, who gives a poo poo.
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Jun 15, 2014 07:30
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Dan Didio posted:It made the game better nah
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Jun 15, 2014 08:15
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JawKnee posted:nah lmao kick rocks, kid
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Jun 15, 2014 08:17
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Dan Didio posted:lmao kick rocks, kid cake eater
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Jun 15, 2014 08:22
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A-Week-and-a-Half away from my computer Post Bomb!PootieTang posted:They should put the bald space marine on the cover and then have the player be a Batarian or something. Not even as an option, just Batarian. But the time between the First Contact War and the Reapers is (almost) completely blank. If they avoided "Galaxy Altering/Universe ending" threats and plots, there's plenty of room between those events to do SOMETHING. Of course, if they avoided humans entirely, there's millenia of stuff to do with the Asari, Turians, etc. Maybe something in the Rachni War? Cometa Rossa posted:ME1 owns forever but I always felt like Shepard jumped on the quest to get Saren way too readily. Anderson was all "Here's Saren, he's uhhh a really bad dude. He hates humans. Whatever" and Shepard is immediately gung-ho 100% zero second-thoughts into ending this poo poo. Like it's clear he's a bad dude but I always felt like your goals were presented as way more self-evident than they seemed to me. There wasn't enough build-up to the relationship with Shep and Anderson to justify the level of trust and certainty between the two, but I think Shep really just wanted revenge for the Geth attack on a human civilization and they were pretty certain Saren was behind it. I liked that in the end, Saren's motivations were genuinely what he thought best for the galaxy in the face of the reapers. In fact, knowing that Shep discovered his motivations and indoctrination and convinced him to kill himself, the way they made such a point at Shep staring at the statue of Saren in the ME2 Kasumi add-on is kind of weak. Dan Didio posted:I want exploration, but not from ME1, because that poo poo sucked. Aside from the "Go ahead and try to drive up these craggy peaks!" and "You can get there from here, but it's gonna be a twenty minute kick in the nuts!" maps, I enjoyed it. Certainly preferred looking for artifacts and mineral deposits manually instead of scanning for them from orbit and dropping a probe on them to collect them. It made more sense: Shep puts a marker on a mineral deposit, sends its location to a company which pays Shep for the info. Also, yeah, thermal clips sucked, because I wasn't playing Mass Effect for the combat. The first one had just the right amount of Combat for me, not too much of put this pixel on this exact spot to kill your enemies. Introducing Ammunition clips, whatever you call them, was a step too far towards making it a shooter. I was more interested in the exploration, the interaction, and the story. In fact, it was somebody's post somewhere on SA about it being the closest to a real star trek "explore the galaxy" game that made me relook it.
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Jun 15, 2014 17:20
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I wasn't playing Mass Effect for the combat either, but given the choice between bad combat (ME1) and good combat (ME2, ME3), I'll pick good combat every time. I prefer good things over bad things even if they're not the main focus of the game.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:05
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Mymla posted:I wasn't playing Mass Effect for the combat either, but given the choice between bad combat (ME1) and good combat (ME2, ME3), I'll pick good combat every time. I prefer good things over bad things even if they're not the main focus of the game. They could have improved the combat exactly how they did without introducing a pointless reloading mechanic. If you want a reason to switch to different weapons, you play on higher difficulties where the different weapons get used to attack different defenses. Please explain to me what adding a reload function actually did to improve combat, other than to take away one of the few unique things about Mass Effect's combat that made it sort of interesting.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:10
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Reloading fits a better with cover based combat where you pop out, unload a clip and pop back, I guess? But yeah, I guess you're right, the reloading itself doesn't matter a whole lot. You could have basically the same combat where the gun overheats after 10 shots in rapid succession rather than just having to reload after 10 shots. A lot of the time you have to sit back for a few extra seconds waiting for health/shields to recharge anyway, which takes about as long as waiting for a gun to cool down. So why is guns overheating somehow superior to reloading?
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Jun 15, 2014 20:22
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Overheating wouldn't have worked with the biotic charge strategy, therefore is terrible.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:31
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Codependent Poster posted:Overheating wouldn't have worked with the biotic charge strategy, therefore is terrible. This. What more needs to be said?
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Jun 15, 2014 20:38
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Overheating fit the future sci-fi aesthetics much better. Also why exactly wouldn't it work with Biotic Charge? There were still shotguns even without thermal clips. I maintain that all of the combat refinements of 2 and 3 could have been done without thermal clips.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:57
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The only real difference with the clip system is that if you run out of ammo for a gun and that battle is still going on (so you can't go out and pick up clips yet), you're forced to switch guns. I remember this happening sometimes but not a lot. However, the cooldowns of the overheated guns in ME1 were pretty long. I think that's what people who hate the original heat system are remembering, but it's not a problem with the system itself. You can simply make the cooldown rates faster so that it's about as fast as reloading, and they become basically the same for gameplay purposes. Lycus fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 21:06
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DrNutt posted:Overheating fit the future sci-fi aesthetics much better. The guns in ME1 were retarded. I can't imagine any kind of military outfit or really, anyone with any sense using such bad equipment. Those guns were like a cruel prank. Imagine going into a war with a gun that fires for two seconds and then just locks up for ten minutes. Hell ghat's probably the only reason Kai Leng survived so long, everyone was using retarded guns that just flat out don't work half the time, so he just walked up to them and strabbed them with his katana while they were waiting for their gun to fix itself. Really having a gun that didn't require ammo and didn't overheat would have fit the sci-fi aesthetic. As it stands those guns shouldn't be past the beta testing stages considering how awful they are. My Q-Face posted:But the time between the First Contact War and the Reapers is (almost) completely blank. If they avoided "Galaxy Altering/Universe ending" threats and plots, there's plenty of room between those events to do SOMETHING. I wish I was as optimistic as you. But I'm pretty sure the next ME game is just gonna be another flavour of 'Ancient mysterious aliens threaten the entire galaxy and only YOU can stop them!'
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Jun 15, 2014 21:20
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PootieTang posted:But I'm pretty sure the next ME game is just gonna be another flavour of 'Ancient mysterious aliens threaten the entire galaxy and only YOU can stop them!'
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Jun 15, 2014 21:26
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 "Zaren is trying to bring back the Cullers! I saw it in my dreams!" PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 06:29
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PootieTang posted:The guns in ME1 were retarded. I can't imagine any kind of military outfit or really, anyone with any sense using such bad equipment. Those guns were like a cruel prank. Imagine going into a war with a gun that fires for two seconds and then just locks up for ten minutes. Sniper rifles with high explosive rounds exist and they're called grenade launchers. An assault rifle with millions of rounds that only jams if you hold down the trigger for upwards of a minute is a pretty good piece of equipment if you ask me. Especially when cooldown takes about two seconds if you're not an idiot deliberately overheating the drat thing.
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Jun 16, 2014 06:49
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If you were using anything other than a Specter X pistol you were doing it wrong, anyway. Which you could shoot forever.
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Jun 16, 2014 06:52
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JawKnee posted:lol what? so them just happening to be all over the place, including places they shouldn't be is a successful retcon? Yup. Cuz those inconsistencies just plain old don't matter gameplay is king.
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Jun 16, 2014 06:53
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PootieTang posted:The guns in ME1 were retarded. I can't imagine any kind of military outfit or really, anyone with any sense using such bad equipment. Those guns were like a cruel prank. Imagine going into a war with a gun that fires for two seconds and then just locks up for ten minutes. Holy poo poo? Are you for real? Did you completely ignore mods that helped reduce heat + hold down the trigger at all times? I think any military outfit would be thrilled to have guns that never need to be reloaded as long as their soldiers aren't poo poo idiots going full Rambo with their assault rifles.
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Jun 16, 2014 07:13
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yup. Cuz those inconsistencies just plain old don't matter gameplay is king. so less 'good retcon' and more 'I, Captain oblivious, am an idiot'
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Jun 16, 2014 07:39
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sassassin posted:Sniper rifles with high explosive rounds exist and they're called grenade launchers. Also anti-materiel Sniper Rifles. Also  my immersion, those gently caress-off huge weapons like the Grenade Launcher you had to take with you on every mission were ugly as sin and didn't line up all symmetrical on your back like the original weapons loadout did.
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Jun 16, 2014 08:42
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I admit that I often took one of the smaller heavy weapons like the missile launcher or the arc projector because I hated how bad the big ones looked on your back.
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Jun 16, 2014 09:22
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Pre-release everyone thought the heavy weapons were the thing that Soldier's would get over the other classes. That was an interesting idea.
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Jun 16, 2014 09:42
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Dan Didio posted:Pre-release everyone thought the heavy weapons were the thing that Soldier's would get over the other classes. That was an interesting idea. Even after it was confirmed that all classes would be able to use heavy weapons, I expected that Soldiers would get bonuses toward their use (ammo capacity, damage). My big guess for what soldiers would get was that they'd be able to use weird and exotic active-function weapon mods, like they had a ZF-1 from the Fifth Element or Kassad's gun from Hyperion, or something. I guess a soldier's ammo powers are ~kind of~ like that, but with the precedent ME3 set (between weapon-esque powers like Flamer and the greater variance in weapon mods) I think there's some room to go further with that. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 23:13
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JawKnee posted:so less 'good retcon' and more 'I, Captain oblivious, am an idiot' He is 100% correct. Making a functional combat system is much more important than consistency of some utterly trivial detail across all three games.
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Jun 16, 2014 23:18
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So IGN just posted an article called the 13 best Mass Effect moments. And they posted a video to go along with it. In it, the writer states that Mass Effect is one of the best stories told in the video game medium and lists why. And this got me wondering. There seems to be a disconnect between the posters in this forum (and that may be extended to the internet in general, but I'm not as familiar with other forums), and video game journalists over the importance/quality of Mass Effect/Bioware games. I wonder if this is caused by the echo chamber effect (which can be found in both groups). For me, I've never disliked any Bioware game, and I use that experience to color my judgements. But I'm always interested in other points of view.
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Jun 16, 2014 23:56
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The next Mass Effect will probably be a pretty decent game and I'm guessing that the vast majority of people who flood the official bioware forums with spergy hate will buy it and play the poo poo out of it secretly.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:01
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Fag Boy Jim posted:He is 100% correct. Making a functional combat system is much more important than consistency of some utterly trivial detail across all three games. Adding ammo isn't what made the combat functional in 2 and 3, hth.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:08
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Spikeguy posted:So IGN just posted an article called the 13 best Mass Effect moments. And they posted a video to go along with it. In it, the writer states that Mass Effect is one of the best stories told in the video game medium and lists why. And this got me wondering. There seems to be a disconnect between the posters in this forum (and that may be extended to the internet in general, but I'm not as familiar with other forums), and video game journalists over the importance/quality of Mass Effect/Bioware games. I wonder if this is caused by the echo chamber effect (which can be found in both groups). For me, I've never disliked any Bioware game, and I use that experience to color my judgements. But I'm always interested in other points of view. Everything I'm about to type can probably just be boiled down to "What I'm saying is no one but me knows how to properly analyze how and why they enjoy media they do  "I would say that while Mass Effect and Bioware games in general have a lot of legitimately great moments (whether that's an action/scenery piece or a dialogue choice or a few lines of dialogue exchanged between two characters) those don't necessarily add up a sum that equals overall greatness. However it is really easy to feel like it does. I still kind of do. I mean, the Mass Effects really are some of what feels like the some of the most fun I had and invested I became in a video game. Taking a step back from something you really enjoy is hard to do sometimes. It's also equally hard to acknowledge that yes, maybe that video game I hate actually had that thing which was kind of, sort of, maybe okay. Taking an example from the article itself, even I thought punching Kai Leng's stupid anime sword and stabbing him in the gut was a great moment. That doesn't change the fact that Kai Leng is also a major factor in several other really stupid moments throughout the rest of the game that only seem to exist as a way to show how badass and awesome he is at the expense of the player. It's really easy to remember the one time that made you go "Yeah! gently caress that guy!" over the moments that made you go "Seriously? gently caress that guy." Even outside the moment that prompted the first reaction. Basically I feel like Mass Effect is less than equal to the sum of its parts, even though I really, really like a lot of those parts.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:36
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DrNutt posted:Adding ammo isn't what made the combat functional in 2 and 3, hth. Maybe not. But like it or not, an ammo mechanic was packaged in along with all the things that made ME2 and ME3's combat fun, and is now a pretty distinct part of its' experience. Replacing it with ME1's overheating mechanics will just make people think of ME1's tedious and boring combat, and I suspect Bioware isn't too keen on letting that happen. Though tbh, this isn't coming from a person who looks at video game ammo clips and gets annoyed about how ' totally generic' it is, so maybe I'm just lacking the proper perspective. I don't think many people outside of DrNutt and the nerdier parts of the Bioware forums care about Bioware's lovely justifications on why future-bullets come out of future-guns. I think most people just want it to be fun.Spikeguy posted:So IGN just posted an article called the 13 best Mass Effect moments. And they posted a video to go along with it. In it, the writer states that Mass Effect is one of the best stories told in the video game medium and lists why. And this got me wondering. There seems to be a disconnect between the posters in this forum (and that may be extended to the internet in general, but I'm not as familiar with other forums), and video game journalists over the importance/quality of Mass Effect/Bioware games. I wonder if this is caused by the echo chamber effect (which can be found in both groups). For me, I've never disliked any Bioware game, and I use that experience to color my judgements. But I'm always interested in other points of view. It's really tough to balance critical analysis of a medium with the gut feeling you get out of that medium, and video game journalism is not yet very good at it. I'd say that part of it is because video game analysis isn't as well regarded as, say, literature or film analysis. There is no system in place that really allows an equivalent of people like Pauline Kael, Roger Ebert, etc., because people that actually apply mildly intelligent critique to video games aren't really treated any differently from those that think the ME series is the pinnacle of the genre as an art form, or are even treated worse. There is a lot of elitist douchebaggery in art, film, and literary criticism, but that's because they've been spoiled on hundreds to thousands of years of quality material. Video games don't have that resume yet, and the culture built off of them is right now more interested in entertainment than academic value. In that respect, the ME series works wonderfully. It's like a work by Roland Emmerich; it's not very smart, but drat if it isn't a blast. Chelb fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 00:36
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Spikeguy posted:So IGN just posted an article called the 13 best Mass Effect moments. And they posted a video to go along with it. In it, the writer states that Mass Effect is one of the best stories told in the video game medium and lists why. And this got me wondering. There seems to be a disconnect between the posters in this forum (and that may be extended to the internet in general, but I'm not as familiar with other forums), and video game journalists over the importance/quality of Mass Effect/Bioware games. I wonder if this is caused by the echo chamber effect (which can be found in both groups). For me, I've never disliked any Bioware game, and I use that experience to color my judgements. But I'm always interested in other points of view. I tend to be closer to the journalist's opinion. Sometimes I hate parts of 1 and 2 for the gameplay (going almost straight from 3 to 1 . . . ugh), and am turned off by some of the story in 3 (but seriously it falls somewhere on my favorite third person shooter list as far as gameplay goes and that is while playing through the game as a sentinel). But it's definitely one of the gems of the generation to me. It's just fun to kind of fall into the world of the game, even if I'm not into the story beat.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:41
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Rollofthedice posted:Maybe not. But like it or not, an ammo mechanic was packaged in along with all the things that made ME2 and ME3's combat fun, and is now a pretty distinct part of its' experience. Replacing it with ME1's overheating mechanics will just make people think of ME1's tedious and boring combat, and I suspect Bioware isn't too keen on letting that happen.  Yes, I'm a BioWare forums sperg lord because I think moving to clips/reloads detracted from the futuristic sci-fi vibe that made Mass Effect special to begin with. In all those words you still haven't managed to articulate why having a button dedicated to reloading and finite future ammo somehow helped to make combat better. Personally I think that making the weapons more punchy, doing away with the clunky inventory system, and using the different barriers to create a rock/paper/scissor combat system was enough, and providing an ammo system was entirely superfluous.
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Jun 17, 2014 01:11
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DrNutt posted:Adding ammo isn't what made the combat functional in 2 and 3, hth. There was ammo in ME3? Is that something that non-Vanguards use?
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Jun 17, 2014 01:16
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DrNutt posted:
I'm confused that in all my words I somehow managed to say that the ammo mechanic was superior, because I don't think I ever said that. But you're right. Sorry for being such a lengthy, turgid douche. I'm just trying to say that I don't think a whole lot of people particularly care about the justification for them shooting things, and that enough people have enough unfortunate memories of ME1's bad combat to make any throwback to it also seem bad regardless of whether overheating is actually bad or not of a mechanic.
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Jun 17, 2014 01:22
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Lemming posted:There was ammo in ME3? Is that something that non-Vanguards use? The funniest part of the "BUT SCARCITY MAKES YOU THINK TACTICALLY" 'argument' is that there's so much ammo lying around in ME3 that it's loving difficult to run out Finding the M-7 Lancer in citadel made me love that DLC even more.
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Jun 17, 2014 01:24
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DrNutt posted:Yes, I'm a BioWare forums sperg lord because I think moving to clips/reloads detracted from the futuristic sci-fi vibe that made Mass Effect special to begin with. 
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Jun 17, 2014 01:24
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| # ? May 29, 2024 16:35 |
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Right back at you. I just think that in addressing a lot of the criticisms of the first game, BioWare chucked the baby out with the bathwater, and on top of that burned down the nursery and the rest of the house.
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Jun 17, 2014 01:35
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