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In an alternate and much better universe than this one, Coldhands wasn't cut and was played by Bruce Campbell, making the skeleton fight approximately infinity times more awesome.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:13
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loquacius posted:So despite having read up through the end of ASOS, my girlfriend managed to be surprised by Tyrion killing Shae. Because all the book says is that he gave her necklace a little jerk, then "afterward" went off to find Tywin, which apparently wasn't enough to imply murder??? (I dunno, I thought it was pretty clear.) Made for a pretty funny reaction. "Wait, is he murdering her?" "Uh. Yeah?" That's a line that 90% of the audience wouldn't understand and it isn't really all that well written anyway, plus the show really tones down the GRRMisms and ye olde textey type, having something like that word for word sticks out like a sore thumb. What we got fits in incredibly well with all the past Tywin / Tyrion show interactions and keeps show Tyrion internally consistent. Dinklage nailed the gently caress out of that scene by the way.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:14
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) and the entire Tysha thing just being forgotten (because that really does change the entire dynamic of the sequence). Otherwise, solid episode. Shut up about Stoneheart, guys; they'll put her in eventually and they had plenty of climactic moments to work with already. Lord knows they're gonna need to hold onto a few for next season.
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Drunk in Space posted:In an alternate and much better universe than this one, Coldhands wasn't cut and was played by Bruce Campbell, making the skeleton fight approximately infinity times more awesome. Now I'm even more dissapointed they cut Coldhands, yet thought the Fookin Legend deserved to appear on two seasons Is it too early to start worrying about next season? I hope that Davos being on the Wall doesn't mean they'll skip his trip to White Harbor or replace Manderly with the Umbers.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:15
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Mills posted:Been a while since I read the books but I don't remember the Hound or Jojen dieing - were these changes? Jojen is very sick by the end of ADWD but he isn't shown dying. The hound "dying" is in the books, he never fights Brienne and gets to secretly survive and makes a brief cameo in AFFC.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:17
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Mills posted:Been a while since I read the books but I don't remember the Hound or Jojen dieing - were these changes? The Hound scene was very similar to the books except that it wasn't Brienne, though it is very unlikely he actually died since you see evidence of him later. Jojen has not explicitly died yet but there is the potential that he has already and it wasn't shown.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:18
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Mills posted:Been a while since I read the books but I don't remember the Hound or Jojen dieing - were these changes? Jojen dying was a change. A lot of people believe he is dead in the books as well, but it hasn't happened on page and he does make it into the cave alive. The Hound's thing wasn't all that different from the book, Brienne fight aside. In both cases Arya leaves him lying and presumably dying and that's the last we see of him... officially. In fact he survives his wounds because some monks find him and heal him and he joins their monastery. Brienne sees him in AFFC but doesn't know who he is. Some people will tell you that this is "just a theory" but those people are dumb, don't listen to them. Sandor Clegane is still alive in both book and show.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:19
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Thanks!
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Jun 16, 2014 14:19
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Mills posted:Been a while since I read the books but I don't remember the Hound or Jojen dieing - were these changes? To add to what everyone else said. The TV scene was almost the same in that it explicitly didn't show the Hound dying. You assume he's going to die and she just leaves him there but there's a bunch of hints later on that only "The Hound" died while Sandor Clegane lived on. As for Jojen, that was a very distinct change. He's definitely dead now...and that wasn't in the books. The last you hear of in the books is that Bran looks for him and Meera but he can't find them in the caves. Edit: Pretty much beaten...
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Jun 16, 2014 14:20
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lifts cats over head posted:Does anybody know where they filmed the Hound/Brienne fight? Northern Ireland I think.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:20
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Definitely some faults in the episode, and definitely not as bad as some people make it out to be. I think a lot of book readers just watch the show as a checklist of things they think it should be, and never get into the framework of just the show itself. I didn't mind the skeleton fight for whatever reason, and I'm a big visual stickler. I feel like actual fighting skeletons would look all jankety like that. The Blood Raven makeup was awful though. After seeing the Emmy nomination I was expecting something crazy, instead just looked like a dude sitting in some branches. EDIT: Also was really taken back with Brienne being just as big as the Hound. Helps sell that scene by a lot.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:22
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I wish they could have just given Bloodraven one hosed up eye. It would have served to make him look a lot creepier, and his line would've made sense. The scene was cool but he didn't look like he'd been in there for decades, just like he'd wandered out of his retirement home and into a tree in an alzheimer's-induced haze
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Jun 16, 2014 14:32
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That loving shot of the river waterfall right after Tyrion escapes. "Could it..be...?!?!?!?? OMG!!!......... oh it's just loving Arya"  It was a good episode, my immense disappointment aside, but it also felt rushed. * Gregor not in agony and no other context around the aftermath of Oberyn's death felt unfulfilling * Tywin came off weird I guess they were going with 'hes scared hes gonna get killed right now but is trying to keep his composure' but just look back at the S2 Tywin with those great scenes with Arya..almost seem like different characters. + all the cut stuff. There wasn't even any real resolution with Shae - just straight up killing her and thats it. No "why did you do it" so no resolution to how she got off the boat Overall S1E10 is still the reigning king as far as finales go. I'm not sure where this was one is because the Tywin death was spoiled for me long ago and I don't know what a show watcher would think of it. Bet you anything next talk show Lena shows up on the twitter/instagram backlash will be mentioned
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Jun 16, 2014 14:33
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Are you guys really complaining that we didn't get something shown on screen that happens at the end of AFFC when they are already going to have to stretch the last 2 books over probably, 3 seasons, until TWOW is out? We will get Stoneheart. I think they should've actually paced it slower than they have.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:33
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This episode was great, and finally cemented in my mind that the show isn't merely an adaptation of the books but is rather its own story and has the latitude to go where it likes and chart its own path - which makes watching the show and not knowing where it's going all the more exciting! Next season will probably be the last one where books can be a guide at all. It maybe suffered from the lack of a distinctive, climactic ending shot. Arya sailing into the distance is fine, but the Stoneheart reveal everyone was expecting would've given the ending the supernatural element that previous seasons have ended on - maybe if they'd ended with Bran's story? Bran's is the one going in the strangest direction, certainly. All the things they've changed or removed are fine by me, things like Jaime and Tyrion being bros or Tysha being dropped for Shae or Jojen exploding aren't bad decisions in and of themselves, they're just different, and different doesn't mean they'll make the story bad. You have to look at what makes for the best TV rather than book. I did chuckle a bit when Stannis got the Darth Vader entrance in the wildling camp, though, I could already imagine the frothing-angry responses online.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:35
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Most of the changes they made were stupid, but even so, the episode was fantastic. I am worried about the next seasons though. Tyrion's whole character is so watered down, I think he's probably my least favorite in the show. He has none of the self-loathing that makes him so great in the books. The man showing Dany his dead child was a great moment in the books that was rushed into nothingness in the show -- huge bummer. The mountain laying their like a little angel. Why? Why not make him suffer? Those complaints and many more aside, I loved the Brienne and Hound fight. The Hound dying really struck me as a great moment too. Finally seeing Tywin's weakness was really well done. Just the whole way Cersei was looking at him all smug while he would not let his brain compute what she was saying.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:35
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The skellies were actually pretty drat impressive, I thought. Despite how commonplace they are in the fantasy genre, you don't really see that many fights with skeletal or mostly skeletal creatures in TV and film, so it was a nice change from zombies zombies zombies. That said, I do think the scene would have looked better and had a lot more atmosphere and suspense with darker lighting. Leaf and Bloodraven were really bad, unfortunately. I wasn't really expecting much in the way of makeup for the Children (did anyone seriously think we were getting cat's eyes and dappled skin? Come on . . .), but there was something really off about the way Leaf's introduction was actually shot. I was expecting more of a slow pan to her stepping from behind a tree or something, to give at least give a sense of mystique about her. This is a Child of the Forest after all. gently caress! That's a big deal, isn't it? Instead she's suddenly just standing there after chucking her little magic bombs, with a deadpan line and absolutely zero gravitas. Really weird. Also, Hampstead-Wright's line delivery is really really bad. Kind of appropriate he's turning into a tree soon.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:36
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mcmagic posted:Are you guys really complaining that we didn't get something shown on screen that happens at the end of AFFC when they are already going to have to stretch the last 2 books over probably, 3 seasons, until TWOW is out? We will get Stoneheart. I think they should've actually paced it slower than they have. Stoneheart is the end of Storm of Swords, not AFFC.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:38
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The skeletons moved exceptionally well, bobbing and weaving with a lot of skill. That was cool, along with the gnomish boming run. I'm really glad to have read the books so long ago, a lot of this stuff is almost fresh to me, and a lot more entertaining than I found the reading experience to be.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:38
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Drunk in Space posted:The skellies were actually pretty drat impressive, I thought. Despite how commonplace they are in the fantasy genre, you don't really see that many fights with skeletal or mostly skeletal creatures in TV and film, so it was a nice change from zombies zombies zombies. That said, I do think the scene would have looked better and had a lot more atmosphere and suspense with darker lighting. I don't think we will ever be satisfied with skeletons. They will always look janky because they are janky and that's the whole point. Bloodraven was just a failure though, he looked like he was leaning up against the branches rather than melding into them. FFS, he was supposed to have leaves sprouting off his head and a branching going into his thigh and out his chest.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:40
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Baldbeard posted:The mountain laying their like a little angel. Why? Why not make him suffer? a) Him screaming the whole time would make the conversation difficult to follow b) At that point he was under the care of maeaster Pycell who probably gave him milk of the poppy. He might start screaming once Quyburn has started his treatment for real.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:44
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GaussianCopula posted:a) Him screaming the whole time would make the conversation difficult to follow a) So they have him screaming from a different room, or close the door, or whatever. They can easily show a man screaming and sill hold the scene down. How about have him writhe in pain? b) Doesn't Pycell say, "I suggest we give him milk of the poppy to ease his pain." as if they didn't yet?
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Jun 16, 2014 14:48
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The scene if perfectly fine there's no need for more pain porn. The whole point of it is to just establish Super Shredder.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:53
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I was pretty underwhelmed, personally. After all the hype it wasn't much. The skeletons were especially stupid and the majority of that fight could have been cut and that time used to have a better parting conversation between Jaime and Tyrion. Skeletons almost always suck and this was no exception. Now I wonder if they really are going to get rid of Stoneheart, cause the end of this was the perfect time to put her in. It would have been great TV, the kind of hook that would really get fans buzzing the whole offseason. I just don't think it will have the same effect doing it next season. I think the criticism I agree with most overall is that everything feels so rushed a lot of the time.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:56
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The Dave posted:The scene if perfectly fine there's no need for more pain porn. The whole point of it is to just establish Super Shredder. The book went to great lengths to establish the suffering he went through. His blood turned black, any leach that touched him instantly died, Qyburn even comments that the manticore poison was loving cursed to draw out the death. His screams could be heard throughout the red keep and so they move him to the dungeon. Having him suffer is like a tiny justice after having him kill the Viper. The show just established that he is still alive and basically guarantees he will continue to 'live'. That to me completely undermines the fight and what the Viper went through.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:59
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Drunk in Space posted:Leaf and Bloodraven were really bad, unfortunately. I wasn't really expecting much in the way of makeup for the Children (did anyone seriously think we were getting cat's eyes and dappled skin? Come on . . .), but there was something really off about the way Leaf's introduction was actually shot. I was expecting more of a slow pan to her stepping from behind a tree or something, to give at least give a sense of mystique about her. This is a Child of the Forest after all. gently caress! That's a big deal, isn't it? Instead she's suddenly just standing there after chucking her little magic bombs, with a deadpan line and absolutely zero gravitas. Really weird. I was really hoping they'd be super creepy, especially Leaf, and I'm really disappointed. I mean she just looks like a cute little girl in rags with some leaves on her head. She looks human, nothing about her is creepy at all. I wasn't expecting dappled skin and cat's eyes or anything, but this seemed almost... I don't want to say "lazy" because I'm sure that's not the case but it looks kinda cheap. I'm pretty sure she was wearing leggings or something that looked like they had a zebra kind of pattern on them too. It just looks like a homemade halloween costume or something. e:  I'm not sure if they're supposed to be her legs or pants or what but ugh God that looks awful. the kawaiiest fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 15:02
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Just watched it. Reeaaaallly disappointed with the dropped ball that was Tyrion's motivation for...everything. Dropping Jaime's learning of Cersei's infidelity was also disappointing. Leaf doing stupid fireballs was jarring and ruined immersion in what was a fantasy with low-key fantasy elements. I have no idea why they felt they needed skeletons when wights would have been just as good. Brienne-Hound fight was pretty cool, but reeked of fanservice. I get the feeling that this show is slowly turning into TV-TV, not HBO-TV.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:03
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This episode owned even if it was somewhat limited by its actors; I'm looking at you Tyrion/Shae and Gregor. Sandor and Brienne are brutal and should make brutal children together. That was such a loving awesome fight. The chaining of the dragons and the dude crying over his little girl nearly made me cry. That poo poo hurt to watch. Bran's story was okay but I hate the way the Child of the Forest saved them directly after Jojen got stabbed, like she was too busy playing video games inside the tree to come out and help them. Then she magically blows up all the dead making Bran's party's struggle seem out of place and unnecessary. Also I guess Jojen dies shortly into book six then. Stannis owns, cavalry owns.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:03
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mcmagic posted:Are you guys really complaining that we didn't get something shown on screen that happens at the end of AFFC when they are already going to have to stretch the last 2 books over probably, 3 seasons, until TWOW is out? We will get Stoneheart. I think they should've actually paced it slower than they have. Nobody is waiting till TWOW is out. Next season is into Winds already for a bunch of characters.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:06
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Trivia posted:Just watched it. I agree that they should have done wights, because we already know and see so little of them -- why even introduce a whole new class of enemy. How were Leaf's fireballs jarring though? They even had her throw little pouches instead of just "casting" fireballs. Seeing the pouches first spark blue, and then turn into fireballs was pretty awesome, and about as low-key as anything we saw in Blackwater.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:09
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Baldbeard posted:b) Doesn't Pycell say, "I suggest we give him milk of the poppy to ease his pain." as if they didn't yet? I heard him say "I would suggest milk of the poppy should ease his pain, but he's completely against it" (the last two words were mumbled so I'm not sure if that's right). Narmi fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 15:13
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Baldbeard posted:I agree that they should have done wights, because we already know and see so little of them -- why even introduce a whole new class of enemy. I must have missed the pouches thing. I'll admit that makes it better, but still doesn't excuse the scene as a whole. It just seemed to reek of "TV", which as far as I know is what HBO tries to distance themselves from.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:18
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Shae immediately going for a knife kinda felt like a "Greedo shoots first" thing to keep Tyrion's nose clean. Although I guess trying to talk her way out of it works better for manipulative book Shae rather than legitimately heartbroken show Shae. The skeleton arm bobbing up and down stabbing Jojen looked so silly too, like an effect out of a haunted house at a carnival.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:19
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Baldbeard posted:I agree that they should have done wights, because we already know and see so little of them -- why even introduce a whole new class of enemy. I think a lot of people starting imaging 'hmm skeletons well their AC is pretty high and they are immune to slashing damage. I think I will use my level 3 fireball spell for this'.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:20
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My Unsullied wife is finally starting to come around on Stannis after the finale, as he demonstrated his willingness to protect the realm and not just the shenanigans going on in King's Landing. She was puzzled by me shaking my fists in the air after the last shot. I could only tell her I was hoping something awesome would happen that didn't. But on the other hand, Pod is safe, so I was happy with that.  I guess I'll have to rewatch the Bloodraven scene, but I didn't feel we got a good look at his face. I was pumped hearing him say "a thousand eyes and one" even if it was visually contradicting. Hopefully they'll have a budget next season for him to look a bit better than Merlin chilling with some root vines.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:24
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Anarkii posted:Nobody is waiting till TWOW is out. Next season is into Winds already for a bunch of characters. That is true though as far as I can guess is just Sansa and possibly Bran or Davos who is going into Winds territory next season. Am I forgetting anyone who people think are likely to go beyond the books in their storyline next season? I expected that Stoneheart would get revealed during the scene where she captures Brienne, but I thought that would happen in this season. Since it didn't happen I guess Brienne is another one who won't be going into uncharted book territory next season.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:27
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asvodel posted:That is true though as far as I can guess is just Sansa and possibly Bran or Davos who is going into Winds territory next season. Am I forgetting anyone who people think are likely to go beyond the books in their storyline next season? For Sansa and Bran, their story will pretty much start in Winds territory next season. But by the end of the season, most of the major characters will be past the books. The primary reason is that gurm didn't write any climaxes while the show absolutely needs to make the season somewhat self-contained. Tyrion's season-long journey needs to end in something substantial (like meeting Dany). One or both of the big battles needs to happen. And this is besides the changes they might be planning to existing arcs. There's a bunch of plot in Book 4/5 which is really weak, so I think the Dorne and the Ironborn plots will be very different from the books.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:36
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Baldbeard posted:I agree that they should have done wights, because we already know and see so little of them -- why even introduce a whole new class of enemy. The problem with Leaf's fireballs is that they cheapened the scene. Meera and Hodor fighting off the skeletons didn't matter because all Leaf had to do was come outside and blow everything up with plot saving fireballs. She was also somehow pre-occupied enough to not realize that Bloodraven's little buddy was outside her tree and came exactly late enough to not save Jojen but exactly early enough to save Bran from certain death. Pretty stupid. Dr. Abysmal posted:Shae immediately going for a knife kinda felt like a "Greedo shoots first" thing to keep Tyrion's nose clean. Although I guess trying to talk her way out of it works better for manipulative book Shae rather than legitimately heartbroken show Shae. Her automatically reaching for the dagger was pretty bad, I thought they'd at least try to talk first. Also I like how Tyrion choked the back of Shae's neck. Shae also didn't struggle at all when he was choking her, she just lied there with her arms and hands kinda limp. I think that scene was severely limited by Peter Dinklage's physical abilities and Shae's lovely acting.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:42
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Regy Rusty posted:In fact he survives his wounds because some monks find him and heal him and he joins their monastery. Brienne sees him in AFFC but doesn't know who he is. Some people will tell you that this is "just a theory" but those people are dumb, don't listen to them. Sandor Clegane is still alive in both book and show. I'd stake a good amount of money on Brienne finding him with the monks next season. It makes more of an impact now because she'll know who he is but he'll insist that "the hound is dead" and they'll have their little wink wink moment and probably wink at the camera a bit too and then move along their merry way.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:42
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I figured the skeletons were just really decayed wights. Also, the fireballs were a bit jarring I guess, but in the books we do see people who can throw fireballs at warg-hawks and climb ladders shaped from fire.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:48
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I liked how Bloodraven looked. It doesn't line up with the book description, but it's otherworldly and cool. This season was a lot of things but namely it was a loud and clear message that they were diverging from the plot of the books as they feel it necessary to do so. This will come with good and bad. Less focus on food, we may not even get to see dany making GBS threads in a field (although I would laugh my rear end off if that makes it in), but we will also get to see the writers on GoT completely gently caress things up, invent new material, completely misfire on material GRRM delivered on in the books. I haven't made it to Bloodraven in the books mind (I'm rapidly approaching it) but I took the time to get the descriptions of him. What we have in the show is decidedly less sinister in nature, while still conveying an ancient and other-worldly look to the whole thing. I'm not going to speculate on where this is all going in either book, but I can tell you guys that this whole season was set up to pretty much fork the show from the book from the second half of ASoS onwards. It is what it is, and in the end we'll see who ends up telling the better version of the same story. (This is of course being optimistic enough to hope GRRM will live long enough to finish the series).
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Jun 16, 2014 15:50
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