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The key to an efficient well run private system is to have the government build it and do all the hard work, establish an efficient management and years of profitability, then give it away to some well connected friends who can then hold it up as an example of "private does it better". We have this weird idea that the moment anything government created or run gets to a point where it's making a good profit or being run too well it suddenly needs to be privatized because the government is only allowed to run money sinks. I swear if there was a massive housing and banking crash in Canada at the same time as a huge rise in the left that saw some banks nationalized and an entire government housing system set up that was rough at first but then ended up being amazingly effective and well run there would be demands to privatize it because its unfair competition for developers who clearly are all lined up wanting to establish their own non-profit social housing systems. If government does something well: privatize it, it's only doing well because it's a government monopoly (but please let it stay a monopoly after it's privatized) If government does something poorly: privatize it, it's losing money and a slick CEO will turn it around (so long as it keeps receiving government hand-outs!)
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Jun 16, 2014 15:52
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triplexpac posted:I was talking with the inlaws about buying a house last night. They told us about how, instead of buying a $70,000 house like their parents suggested, they splurged and got a $120,000 3-bedroom. My mother randomly decided to check real estate prices in a neighborhood we used to live in last week. The house they paid 70k for back in the late 80's, a three bedroom bungalow with finished basement, now goes for something like 260k. We do not live in a hot market or anything like that.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:52
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FrozenVent posted:My mother randomly decided to check real estate prices in a neighborhood we used to live in last week. The house they paid 70k for back in the late 80's, a three bedroom bungalow with finished basement, now goes for something like 260k. We do not live in a hot market or anything like that. $70,000 in 1988 ~= $124,000 in 2014. No credit-fueled price growth here, nosiree!
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Jun 16, 2014 15:57
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Lexicon, did you just go on the Bank of Canada website to do that? I feel like we just did that exact same thing here. Anyway, my parent's house was bought when I was eight months old, we moved in on my first birthday. It was built on reclaimed swamp near Lake Ontario, and over the years was basically just okay. The initial price was 260,000. In 2009, my parents sold for just a hair under 650k. This was just on the edge of Port Credit in Mississauga, so there had been a massive growth of quaint small town feel mixed with suburban convenience all along the Lakeshore. We had also improved the exterior of the house a lot. The inside had cheap particle board floors put in, but it looked nice and impressed the buyers, a young family with a toddler that my parents said reminded them of themselves at the time. They said they were going to floor the basement (we had done only part of it) and redo the kitchen. They offered 50k over asking. At the time, I thought this was outrageous. The house just sold for 800k.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:04
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Kafka Esq. posted:Lexicon, did you just go on the Bank of Canada website to do that? I feel like we just did that exact same thing here. I did  (for anyone else who may not be aware - this is a great way to calculate the real value of a price from the past. Great for historical forex conversions also). Kafka Esq. posted:Anyway, my parent's house was bought when I was eight months old, we moved in on my first birthday. It was built on reclaimed swamp near Lake Ontario, and over the years was basically just okay. The initial price was 260,000. In 2009, my parents sold for just a hair under 650k. This was just on the edge of Port Credit in Mississauga, so there had been a massive growth of quaint small town feel mixed with suburban convenience all along the Lakeshore. We had also improved the exterior of the house a lot. The inside had cheap particle board floors put in, but it looked nice and impressed the buyers, a young family with a toddler that my parents said reminded them of themselves at the time. They said they were going to floor the basement (we had done only part of it) and redo the kitchen. They offered 50k over asking. Jesus.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:21
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Maybe it's not so crazy - 4 bedrooms, 3.5 bathrooms, a massive corner lot (which, except for the old growth trees that somehow got there, would have had enough for a pretty large pool). Add in a good kitchen, and completed renovations, I imagine it could be an ideal home in a very quiet area. Especially with the growth of a form of night life and community ten minutes walk away. My grade school is a one minute walk and its been turned into a preppy private school now. Whoever lives there better not work downtown though. That would be a hell on earth commute down the Gardiner.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:36
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Yeah, my parents bought for about 100k in the mid 80's and now it's worth about 750k but the neighbouring house sold for 900k and is smaller. That's just the norm, so buy no before you're priced out. Also their rich friends just bought some investment houses in Kitimat and Fort St. John because they're going to get rich when the pipeline comes or something. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 16:49
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Kafka Esq. posted:Lexicon, did you just go on the Bank of Canada website to do that? I feel like we just did that exact same thing here. My grandparents bought their house for $60,000 and recently retired and sold it for $1.2 million. My parents bought a house for $150,000 and last year sold it for $650,000. This was after the city took a quarter of the yard to build a sidewalk and gave them a fat cheque for $50,000 for their troubles (that my stepfather used to buy a Hummer). They keep asking me why I am so irresponsible and haven't settled down and bought a house yet; it's a great investment! 
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Jun 16, 2014 16:54
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Everyone has anecdotes about how cheap things were for their parents. My parents owned 4 properties in Toronto back in the '60s but sold them all to buy a farm out in Caledon. They sold all four houses in 1972 and made big big bucks at the time, so I am told. I kind of wish they had kept everything because the houses were all in the Annex but I loved living on the farm, it was a great place for a kid to grow up. We moved back to Toronto in 1985 and rented but, again, they bought property when everything crashed in 1988-ish, three houses over a span of five years. They rented out two of them and we lived in one, this time the houses were all in Parkdale because they were cheap and big and close to everything, just like the ones in the Annex had been back in the '60s. My dad died and my mom sold everything and now rents an apartment close to my sister's family and couldn't be happier. From my parents I have learned that real estate, like many things, is cyclical. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 16:58
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Rutibex posted:They keep asking me why I am so irresponsible and haven't settled down and bought a house yet; it's a great investment! Mine got squeezed out of a rental property because of the rate hikes in the early 80's, so they entirely agree with my current position. Heck, my father's been renting for over 25 years now.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:01
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jet sanchEz posted:From my parents I have learned that real estate, like many things, is cyclical. Yes it is cyclical, but the current cycle is for prices to go up forever, so you'd better get on board before the ship leaves port. Speaking of which, have any of you considered just living on a boat?
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Jun 16, 2014 17:08
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eXXon posted:Speaking of which, have any of you considered just living on a boat? Buying a condo would be a much smarter and more comfortable thing. And I say that as someone used to live on boats bigger than most condo buildings.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:15
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eXXon posted:Yes it is cyclical, but the current cycle is for prices to go up forever, so you'd better get on board before the ship leaves port. You joke, but houseboat dockage fees in Vancouver have skyrocketed too.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:16
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People who want to live on a boat to "save money" are going to be hugely disappointed at what a loving money-pit a boat is. Also living on a boat loving sucks. The only people I've met that have "successfully" lived on a boat did so not out of choice but necessity due to their passion to own a boat. They had to choose between having housing and a boat and they picked a boat so now they have to live in it. They all admit it horrible but they love sailing so much it's their only option. So unless you have a burning passion for boats and sailing you're going to be miserable living in a cramped damp constantly decaying little box that you have to throw piles of money at to keep above water and mobile. Oh also ALL your free time will be working on the boat because boats require insane upkeep and it's either do it your self or pay a fortune for someone else to do it. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:27
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The two greatest days of a man's life are when he buys a boat and when he sells it.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:42
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Baronjutter posted:So unless you have a burning passion for boats and sailing you're going to be miserable living in a cramped damp constantly decaying little box that you have to throw piles of money at to keep above water and mobile. This sounds just like a leaky condo, except that you can sail it to the hottest spots in the country like Kitimat and Prince Rupert.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:45
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Is it true that you can estimate the cost of maintenance from the amount of horsepower the engine generates? Its like 100 bucks per horsepower power year, someone was telling me.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:46
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Cultural Imperial posted:Is it true that you can estimate the cost of maintenance from the amount of horsepower the engine generates? Its like 100 bucks per horsepower power year, someone was telling me. AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA No. Edit: A better measure is a percentage of the boat's value. A bassboat with a 50 HP engine is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper to maintain than a 26 feet sailboat with a 15 HP engine with a stove, fridge, generator and furling jib. I think I heard about 10% of the boat's value, every year, somewhere, but obviously that varies a lot depending on how much time you put in yourself, how handy you are and how much you care about cosmetic stuff. Once you add in wharfage and winter storage, my 23' sailboat is about $2500-3000 a year, and I live in an area with extremely cheap wharfage. This isn't a boat you could live on either, and we put in about 100 man-hours of maintenance a year ourselves. The boat's valued at 10k. FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:48
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The waiting list for the only liveaboard moorage in False Creek is currently 20 years, and long-term mooring off anchor is forbidden since they successfully petitioned the city to make it illegal. So, unless you like the idea of paying out the rear end to live in a bayou of the Fraser out in Richmond, liveaboard is not for you. Now, a converted cargo van on the other hand... Rime fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:56
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Rime posted:The waiting list for the only liveaboard moorage in False Creek is currently 20 years, and long-term mooring off anchor is forbidden since they successfully petitioned the city to make it illegal. So, unless you like the idea of paying out the rear end to live in a bayou of the Fraser out in Richmond, liveaboard is not for you. Wow it's illegal? That's basically he only way people do it in Victoria. Some save up and get moorage during the winter. Also not everyone knows it, even Victoria locals, but we have a sort of floating water-world slum town in a section of the gorge. It's just a bunch of abandoned or semi-abandoned boats grouped together, sometimes lashed together, that a whole village of sort of homeless people live on. The water is federal and there's all sorts of weird legal issues at play that basically result in no one wanting to take any responsibility for them so they're living in no-mans land... er water. I'd normally be fine with it but they love to just dump their poo poo and garbage overboard so all the water around them is nasty and filled with poo poo and piss bottles and garbage. They also like to accidentally burn down their boats or get drunk and high and fall off or get into fights.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:05
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A city can't really tell boats what to do; it's a federal domain. That being said there's about a hundred ways they could get around that, and live-aboard pleasure crafts can easily get pretty nasty.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:08
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Baronjutter posted:Wow it's illegal? That's basically he only way people do it in Victoria. Some save up and get moorage during the winter. Also not everyone knows it, even Victoria locals, but we have a sort of floating water-world slum town in a section of the gorge. It's just a bunch of abandoned or semi-abandoned boats grouped together, sometimes lashed together, that a whole village of sort of homeless people live on. The water is federal and there's all sorts of weird legal issues at play that basically result in no one wanting to take any responsibility for them so they're living in no-mans land... er water. And that describes False Creek up to a few years ago, except perhaps more abandoned and derelict. You cannot anchor for more than a few days now iirc.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:11
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ocrumsprug posted:And that describes False Creek up to a few years ago, except perhaps more abandoned and derelict. You cannot anchor for more than a few days now iirc. How is it enforced?
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Jun 16, 2014 18:16
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Coast Guard or somebody comes along and takes your boat away for impoundment.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:28
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Lexicon posted:How is it enforced? http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/anchoring.aspx I believe the City requested, and received authorization, from the federal government to deal with False Creek. I found this: http://www.civicinfo.bc.ca/practices_innovations/vancouver_false_creek.pdf Walking by the area every day around 2000, the area was actually getting pretty cluttered with derelict boats so it wasn't a surprise they wanted to do something about it.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:30
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Rime posted:Coast Guard or somebody comes along and takes your boat away for impoundment. The Canadian Coast Guard doesn't do any kind of enforcement, or anything that might remotely be possibly perceived as enforcement. It's either the local police or the RCMP (Although they may do it from a CCG vessel, at times.) ocrumsprug posted:http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/anchoring.aspx Those links refer to the BRR, which was repealed in 2008. The current instrument is the Vessel Operation Restriction Regulation, specifically paragraphs 13 and 14.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:31
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eXXon posted:Man, this thread sure has taken a turn for the terrible in the last few pages. Don't put words in my mouth thanks. I don't think I said 'why can't it be the same'. Having lived in both cities I'm well aware of the differences in population density. I said one is well run and profitable and the other is a badly run piece of poo poo. Unfavourable markets don't excuse poor management dominated by retarded city politics. FrozenVent posted:My mother randomly decided to check real estate prices in a neighborhood we used to live in last week. The house they paid 70k for back in the late 80's, a three bedroom bungalow with finished basement, now goes for something like 260k. We do not live in a hot market or anything like that. That's about a 3.5-4% compound return per year, not really very astonishing and under performing nearly every other asset class over the same time period.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:29
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Don't put words in my mouth thanks. I don't think I said 'why can't it be the same'. Having lived in both cities I'm well aware of the differences in population density. I said one is well run and profitable and the other is a badly run piece of poo poo. Unfavourable markets don't excuse poor management dominated by retarded city politics.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:51
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Don't put words in my mouth thanks. I don't think I said 'why can't it be the same'. Having lived in both cities I'm well aware of the differences in population density. I said one is well run and profitable and the other is a badly run piece of poo poo. Unfavourable markets don't excuse poor management dominated by retarded city politics. Please address this post: Baronjutter posted:The key to an efficient well run private system is to have the government build it and do all the hard work, establish an efficient management and years of profitability, then give it away to some well connected friends who can then hold it up as an example of "private does it better".
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Jun 16, 2014 19:54
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ocrumsprug posted:http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/anchoring.aspx The water is also getting to be full of poo poo.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:15
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Kafka Esq. posted:I've only attended a few CivicAction meetings in Toronto, but I can tell you that the problem in Toronto isn't just "retarded" managers. It's a lack of clarity on where density will be that can guarantee that kind of farebox a profitable system needs, and it's a lack of will at upper levels of government to bite the bullet. The ttc is an amazingly efficient system for how little money it operates on. Asking why it "sucks" is like asking why a starving child is having trouble becoming a pro athlete. It's a stupid question to begin with because the answer is so obvious.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:33
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Not gonna lie, my transition from Mississauga to Toronto was mostly for the subway, even today while it was shut down from Woodbine to St George I was able to get where I'm going.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:36
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Kafka Esq. posted:I've only attended a few CivicAction meetings in Toronto, but I can tell you that the problem in Toronto isn't just "retarded" managers. It's a lack of clarity on where density will be that can guarantee that kind of farebox a profitable system needs, and it's a lack of will at upper levels of government to bite the bullet. They aren't subsidized properly at all. It's the lowest federal/provincial subsidy in North America. This is a symptom of the same bullshit that results in random lady from Cobourg Ontario asking the question "How can I be sure my tax dollars aren't being spent in Toronto and instead are spent on things in Cobourg" during the Ontario Leaders Debate on TV the other week. gently caress you lady, the truth is that Toronto has been subsidizing your stupid suburban lifestyle forever.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:45
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Just curious, does anyone know anything about the housing market around Ottawa? There's a lot of talk about Toronto & Vancouver in here, but other areas are a bit of a mystery. Just checking out listings and it looks like you can get houses at a reasonable price, at least compared to the GTA.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:08
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It's reasonable compared to the GTA, but relatively high compared to say 5 years ago. Ton of condos being built. Houses across the river used to be comparatively cheaper, but they've been going up as well.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:09
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triplexpac posted:Just curious, does anyone know anything about the housing market around Ottawa? There's a lot of talk about Toronto & Vancouver in here, but other areas are a bit of a mystery. Ben Rabidoux talks about Ottawa a lot, apparently it's one of the worst places in Canada for overbuilding and valuations being crazy.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:29
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Professor Shark posted:Please address this post: This doesn't include the profits that the fed other central banks have made through QE and other related programs. http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/11/monetary-policy-4 Significant institutions not developed by the government which are best in class globally: http://vcn.bc.ca/pmmuseum/Programs/Building%20the%20Trans%20Canada%20Railroad.pdf http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_Canada See also the oil sands the agricultural industry mining steelmaking Shipping The Canadian tech industry Examples of things the government sold before the industry devolved into a complete shitpile thus avoiding significant liabilities: Air Canada Other stuff they've sold: CN Rail (solid money maker but declining industry with escalating capital investment); has done well as a public company in spite of stiff competition / substitution Petro-Canada (created as a policy tool by Trudeau, left to its own devices and subsequently spun out at great profit by subsequent governments, particularly at times when those governments were paying off debts) As I mentioned earlier, they're currently considering spinning out CMHC due in part to the significant moral hazard it represents as noted by some people in this thread.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:31
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Ottawa and Montreal have the worst markets in Canada in terms of months of inventory.
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Jun 16, 2014 22:09
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triplexpac posted:Just curious, does anyone know anything about the housing market around Ottawa? There's a lot of talk about Toronto & Vancouver in here, but other areas are a bit of a mystery. Houses in my area, South Keys seem to have dropped over the last few months. A house near me has reduced their price $60k in the last two months and it's still up for sale.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:58
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Significant institutions not developed by the government which are best in class globally: Wait, what?
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