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Prison labor as slavery came up. This is related (increasing fees imposed on the convicted) and worth listening to. http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor. Get job (hard as a felon) pay excessive courts costs (very hard on minimum wage) else go back to prison (possibly for much longer than you otherwise should have). Do not pass go. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:52
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Genocide Tendency posted:What point are you even trying to make? That the Sixth Party System was created and is maintained largely (almost entirely really) by racism, which you're entirely eliding by dismissing the frothing insane demonization of Obama as partisan politics. In the Sixth Party System, partisan politics is racism. Even Clinton did not have opposition this bad: when he offered to give away Democratic positions for peanuts in grand bargains, Republicans got on board. They railed against Clinton, but if he supported something they wanted, they voted for it. How many times has the Tea Party rejected an almost total surrender from Obama out of steadfast refusal to not let him pass a single bill no matter how great a victory it would be for the right's agenda? The Republicans couldn't even get an offer together to end the shutdown crisis because the furious Tea Party core defied any attempt to negotiate with a black man. Obama had a grand bargain on the table, but the Republican establishment collapsed when it became clear the Tea Party would prefer to burn the country to the ground rather than legitimize Obama's presidency. Obama got the clean debt ceiling bill he wanted because the Tea Party would rather let the black man win than acknowledge him as an equal at the bargaining table. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 18:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I don't think it's semantic quibbling to point out that all of this poo poo with Obama is standard politics in the US, just flavored and (fueled to some degree) by racial hatred. This doesn't really prove anything, other than that the dropoff apparently took a couple years to happen, rather than immediately like I thought. But it doesn't show the early years of Clinton's presidency, where the numbers had been rising to get to that point. Obviously, it's even worse under Obama, but there's a very clear Democrat-Republican difference. Also from my understanding "Patriot" groups are largely anti-immigration lunatics; the number of "militia" is actually lower than it was during the Clinton years. And to be clear I think some of the opposition to Obama is driven by racism on the far right, but it's the cherry on the top of the already fervent resistance he'd get just for being a Democrat president. Sucrose fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 18:31
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Sucrose posted:This doesn't really prove anything, other than that the dropoff apparently took a couple years to happen, rather than immediately like I thought. But it doesn't show the early years of Clinton's presidency, where the numbers had been rising to get to that point. Obviously, it's even worse under Obama, but there's a very clear Democrat-Republican difference. Also from my understanding "Patriot" groups are largely anti-immigration lunatics; the number of "militia" is actually lower than it was during the Clinton years. As for the "Patriot movement", I think it's a sort of big tent movement, like American political parties themselves. It's basically radicalized rural conservatives, whether sovereign citizens, tax protesters, states' rights people or Christian apocalypse cults.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:
Yea, almost all of those "patriot" groups are utterly nonviolent and noncriminal dumb as they are so I'm not sure what the scary graph is supposed to mean lumping them in with militias. Hell even most "militias" are just 5 redneck guys who really love guns hanging out with eachother and two of them are undercover fbi agents there looking out for trouble. We've had those crazy militia types since the country was formed and they pull some poo poo every now and then but your chance of being harmed by any of those people is the same as ever, vanishingly small. They are completely infiltrated by the fbi and thats a good thing fyi before I get accused of loving militias.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:02
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:Yea, almost all of those "patriot" groups are utterly nonviolent and noncriminal dumb as they are so I'm not sure what the scary graph is supposed to mean lumping them in with militias. Hell even most "militias" are just 5 redneck guys who really love guns hanging out with eachother and two of them are undercover fbi agents there looking out for trouble. We've had those crazy militia types since the country was formed and they pull some poo poo every now and then but your chance of being harmed by any of those people is the same as ever, vanishingly small. They are completely infiltrated by the fbi and thats a good thing fyi before I get accused of loving militias.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:46
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:Yea, almost all of those "patriot" groups are utterly nonviolent and noncriminal dumb as they are so I'm not sure what the scary graph is supposed to mean lumping them in with militias. Hell even most "militias" are just 5 redneck guys who really love guns hanging out with eachother and two of them are undercover fbi agents there looking out for trouble. We've had those crazy militia types since the country was formed and they pull some poo poo every now and then but your chance of being harmed by any of those people is the same as ever, vanishingly small. They are completely infiltrated by the fbi and thats a good thing fyi before I get accused of loving militias. Yup. It's a good thing that nobody could look at them and think that their rhetoric, even if they have no intention of ever following up, is totally the right thing to do. Oh wait. Kind of odd that 2 people that were obviously fans of the Tea Party, what with the Gadsden flag, could also have been raging white supremacists. How does the saying go? Not all Republicans are racist, but all racists are republican? I think that's it. E-Tank fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 20:48
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Powercrazy posted:There are more slaves today then there were before the civil war. Race has nothing to do with it. There are more people alive today
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Jun 16, 2014 21:04
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Koalas March posted:There are more people alive today So what? Suffering is suffering. Not that Powercrazy has a good point.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:24
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Slaves both today and yesterday ate food and drank water. It has nothing to do with race.
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Jun 16, 2014 22:44
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did you know that more blacks today own a refrigerator than slaves???? also their granite countertops!!!
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Jun 17, 2014 03:41
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Powercrazy posted:There are more slaves today then there were before the civil war. Race has nothing to do with it. Adjusted per capita? As a percentage of the population?
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Jun 17, 2014 03:58
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:did you know that more blacks today own a refrigerator than slaves???? also their granite countertops!!! I own one refrigerator, and zero slaves, so I can vouch for this anecdotally.
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Jun 17, 2014 05:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:did you know that more blacks today own a refrigerator than slaves???? also their granite countertops!!! do you think white people would take away refrigerators froms slaves? Makes you tihnk.
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Jun 17, 2014 06:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:Adjusted per capita? As a percentage of the population?
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Jun 17, 2014 07:37
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If you haven't completely run off in shame yet, OP, I'd like you to take a look at this article, because you're falling into the biggest trap for white people - when confronted with a conversation about racism that isn't sufficiently cushioned and tip-toey for your taste, you make it all about you, you, you and how dare they talk about a society-wide centuries-old legacy of racism without specifically making exceptions for you? Yes, "not all white people are like that", but if you're so self-centered and clueless that you have to butt into a conversation about racism to yell about how not-racist you personally are, you probably are "like that" even if you don't realize it. http://flowerhorne.com/2013/12/20/not-all-white-people-and-derailing-conversations/ quote:‘Not All White People’ and Derailing Conversations
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Jun 17, 2014 19:11
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Main Paineframe posted:If you haven't completely run off in shame yet, OP, I'd like you to take a look at this article, because you're falling into the biggest trap for white people - when confronted with a conversation about racism that isn't sufficiently cushioned and tip-toey for your taste, you make it all about you, you, you and how dare they talk about a society-wide centuries-old legacy of racism without specifically making exceptions for you? Yes, "not all white people are like that", but if you're so self-centered and clueless that you have to butt into a conversation about racism to yell about how not-racist you personally are, you probably are "like that" even if you don't realize it. Sounds like a lot of "those awful people who don't buy into my world view are ruining our online circle jerk they should be quiet and let the Pure People talk". If she wants to have safe conversations about racism between her white self and her white friends where they define the acceptable boundaries she shouldn't do it on Facebook or wherever.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:39
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We have the problem of too many people and not enough jobs. Now if you ask some people they will say, "just give everyone a check for being alive, we have plenty of productivity!" but a better answer is to take all the "extras" as I call them and put them into a big meat grinder. Now every time your job is automated you have a grace period to retrain and get hired, but if you can't tough poo poo my motherfucking ninja into the grinder you go. Well it gives people a big incentive to work, and the positive side is that we don't have to pay people to sit around. We don't have to keep them perpetually in prison with fees that they can't pay because they're in prison or enslave them, either. If you think food and board is expensive as a university student, you should see what its like to keep hired help on hand. My god those extras can eat. It's just my humble idea and its green friendly too.
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Jun 17, 2014 22:10
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Main Paineframe posted:If you haven't completely run off in shame yet, OP, I'd like you to take a look at this article, because you're falling into the biggest trap for white people - when confronted with a conversation about racism that isn't sufficiently cushioned and tip-toey for your taste, you make it all about you, you, you and how dare they talk about a society-wide centuries-old legacy of racism without specifically making exceptions for you? Yes, "not all white people are like that", but if you're so self-centered and clueless that you have to butt into a conversation about racism to yell about how not-racist you personally are, you probably are "like that" even if you don't realize it. I'll take "boring people trying to bring meaning into their worthless life via internet activism" for 200, Alex.
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Jun 18, 2014 01:13
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Powercrazy posted:I'll take "boring people trying to bring meaning into their worthless life via internet activism" for 200, Alex. Writing an article other people may stumble across is better than posting on a dead forum IMO
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Jun 18, 2014 05:50
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Main Paineframe posted:If you haven't completely run off in shame yet, OP, I'd like you to take a look at this article, because you're falling into the biggest trap for white people - when confronted with a conversation about racism that isn't sufficiently cushioned and tip-toey for your taste, you make it all about you, you, you and how dare they talk about a society-wide centuries-old legacy of racism without specifically making exceptions for you? Yes, "not all white people are like that", but if you're so self-centered and clueless that you have to butt into a conversation about racism to yell about how not-racist you personally are, you probably are "like that" even if you don't realize it. This is bullshit meant to quell discussion and force your mindset onto others. It essentially tells white people that if they don't think they are racist to be quiet because they are one of the good ones and if they have to the desire to speak then they are automatically racist by admission. It's bullshit tumblrspeak.
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Jun 18, 2014 08:47
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I thought it was a really good article. It was articulate and written in a kind and patient manner. I don't understand the strength of peoples negative reactions.
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Jun 18, 2014 10:21
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katlington posted:I thought it was a really good article. It was articulate and written in a kind and patient manner. I don't understand the strength of peoples negative reactions. I agree and I have written similar (though less eloquent) things myself previously to respond to discussions on Facebook and other places among friends and acquaintances who don't seem to get that racism against white people just isn't comparable to actual racism in any meaningful way. I work in the field of equality and human rights and I also see this phenomenon whenever there is a discussion concerning rape and sexual violence as well as non-sexual domestic violence. In every single discussion, actual debate gets drowned out by white men saying that "men can be victims too!". Yes, they can, but the overwhelming number of victims are women. (I just looked up the numbers for reported rapes in my country and between 2 and 3% of cases involve a male victim, with little variation from year to year. I can MAYBE concede the argument that the actual percentage of male victims is higher because there is even more stigma involved in reporting rape for a man than a woman, but I do not think that affects the numbers noticeably since there is massive stigma for women too.) When a campaign or a discussion only mentions women, it is a fair point that someone says "but some of the victims are men too!". It is not fair that the entire discussion is taken over by people discussing this and only this point (and sometimes claim discrimination). I just, literally 10 minutes ago, did some research for my work related to a new government program here, where people from different ethnic minorities are educated to work as a form of counselors to help other members of their ethnic minorities navigate within our national healthcare system. There were 3 questions posted on the campaign Facebook page, which was being used to answer questions about the campaign. One of them was from a potentially interested person asking about practicalities. The other two questions were from people saying "How is this not discrimination against white people if only ethnic minorities can get this job?". TL;DR: The problem arises when people who suffer 5% of the negative effects make 90% of the discussion about them because many campaigns are focused on people who are the victims 95% of the time. I'm a straight white man and the number one thing I think other straight white men could learn is to shut the gently caress up about our own problems when discussing race/gender/sexual equality.
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Jun 18, 2014 10:52
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natetimm posted:This is bullshit meant to quell discussion and force your mindset onto others. It essentially tells white people that if they don't think they are racist to be quiet because they are one of the good ones and if they have to the desire to speak then they are automatically racist by admission. It's bullshit tumblrspeak. white people do have nothing interesting to say about anything, though 
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Jun 18, 2014 12:11
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There is a can of black spray paint out in the garage. We can help you fix your self-hatred for being white. You'll have to find a set of bolt cutters to fix that gender hang up on your own. Edit: WhiskeyJuvenile posted:white people do have nothing interesting to say about anything, though A post brough to SA by a mid 20 something white guy. Who also posted this earlier in the thread: WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Q: What do you call a dead white person? Genocide Tendency fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 12:19
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30-something, and I don't hate myself, I hate white people, not white persons.
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Jun 18, 2014 12:24
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The Mash posted:When a campaign or a discussion only mentions women, it is a fair point that someone says "but some of the victims are men too!". What the article seems to be referring to are conversations that stray into hateful generalizations about men, white people, or white men, that other participants in the public forum hosting the conversation have a problem with. From The article quote:It’s practically a Law Of The Internet that when a Person of Color says something about racism, at least one white person will barge into the conversation to assure everyone that ‘not all white people are like that.’ Bonus points if they go on to explain that making negative generalizations about white people is ‘racist’ (spoiler: it’s not). The author conflates people talking about their personal experiences of racism with people hating on white people. One of those is having a conversation about racism and the other is engaging in racism and if the author doesn't want her racist conversations interrupted she shouldn't hold them in public fora.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:10
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Genocide Tendency posted:There is a can of black spray paint out in the garage. We can help you fix your self-hatred for being white. Why can't white people have a pride movement? I'm not ashamed to be white  Pro-tip: when arguing that the REAL racists are the ones helping minorities, it is poor strategy to tip your hand by telling someone that if he loves the negro so much, he should go be one. Edit: Seriously though, all the guy said was that he wanted to do his job without white people crowding out his clients' questions with ignorant poo poo about "Where's the White Jobs Program" (America. The White Jobs Program is called America), and you're calling him a race traitor. What the hell. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 14:12
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natetimm posted:This is bullshit meant to quell discussion and force your mindset onto others. It essentially tells white people that if they don't think they are racist to be quiet because they are one of the good ones and if they have to the desire to speak then they are automatically racist by admission. It's bullshit tumblrspeak. It's about shutting up when you're, by definition, ignorant.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:12
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VitalSigns posted:Edit: Seriously though, all the guy said was that he wanted to do his job without white people crowding out his clients' questions with ignorant poo poo about "Where's the White Jobs Program" (America. The White Jobs Program is called America), and you're calling him a race traitor. What the hell. I don't think he's American.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:25
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wateroverfire posted:I don't think he's American. Which poster do you mean?
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Jun 18, 2014 14:33
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VitalSigns posted:Pro-tip: when arguing that the REAL racists are the ones helping minorities, it is poor strategy to tip your hand by telling someone that if he loves the negro so much, he should go be one. Pro-tip: people playing the "you are racist" one-upsmanship card on message boards aren't even slightly helping minorities. They are just using minorities as a prop for social positioning and preening. on the left fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 14:41
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VitalSigns posted:Which poster do you mean? The Mash
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Jun 18, 2014 14:42
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on the left posted:Pro-tip: people playing the "you are racist" one-upsmanship card on message boards aren't even slightly helping minorities. They are just using minorities as a prop for social positioning and preening. Edit: the guy he was calling a race traitor really is helping minorities though. Like, that's his job, did you miss that? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 15:05
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VitalSigns posted:Whoa whoa that's a heavy word, I never called anyone a racist. Why are you so obsessed with that word? Maybe you're the real one-upper. Nobody called anyone a race traitor.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:22
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wateroverfire posted:Nobody called anyone a race traitor. Ah right. He just said if he hated his own people so much, he should go be black. Which is totally different.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:30
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My fellow Whites, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will legalize slavery forever. We begin enslaving in five minutes.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:52
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wateroverfire posted:Nobody called anyone a race traitor. No, but apparently whites who point out racism are "using minorities as a prop for social positioning and preening". on the left posted:Pro-tip: people playing the "you are racist" one-upsmanship card on message boards aren't even slightly helping minorities. They are just using minorities as a prop for social positioning and preening. Also stop posting like George Will.
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Jun 18, 2014 16:00
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VitalSigns posted:Why can't white people have a pride movement? I'm not ashamed to be white VitalSigns posted:Whoa whoa that's a heavy word, I never called anyone a racist. Why are you so obsessed with that word? Maybe you're the real one-upper. VitalSigns posted:Ah right. He just said if he hated his own people so much, he should go be black. Which is totally different. Or I was just being an rear end in a top hat to a pretentious bag of cocks. wateroverfire posted:Nobody called anyone a race traitor. Correct. I didn't call anyone a race traitor. I simply pointed out that someone went off the deep end with their white guilt and peacocking about how unracist of a white person they are and how everyone should be just like them. Also some weird thing about how apparently gender is important in rape and domestic violence. Instead of it simply being rape and domestic violence is bad regardless of the gender of the victim. I'm sure that wasn't the point they wanted to make but it read that way. I don't argue racism or gender discrimination. They exist. Thats simple fact. But telling one race or one gender that they shouldn't voice their views because of reasons... Is well.. loving stupid. And crying racism or gender bias (MRA in this case which someone will do because they are loving retarded) is just as bad as someone posting "Niggers should know their place, in the cotton fields" or "women belong in the kitchen". Reasonable discussion involves all walks of life on a level platform. Each one having an equal voice and using it in a respectful manner. Going off the other end of the spectrum doesn't make you enlightened. It makes you an ignorant insufferable fuckstick. And ruins any chance of people beyond your circle jerk group seriously. I posted what I did because it was the response he deserved. Just like earlier when you, VitalSigns, tried to re-imagine my post about feuding political parties into what ever dumbshit angle you were trying to take to paint it into a race issue. You are going to ignore every loving thing I have posted here VitalSigns, because well, its right. More importantly, it conflicts with your point of view that everyone should post your thoughts word for word. on the left posted:Pro-tip: people playing the "you are racist" one-upsmanship card on message boards aren't even slightly helping minorities. They are just using minorities as a prop for social positioning and preening. This also deserves a metric poo poo ton of love because it is dead on.
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Jun 18, 2014 16:10
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katlington posted:I thought it was a really good article. It was articulate and written in a kind and patient manner. I don't understand the strength of peoples negative reactions. people have problems with the article based on latent resentment on feeling guilty for being white. they either think it is unfair to feel this way or they subconciously agree but feel like they can't say that without being a traitor of some kind. it's also very popular to be against social messaging right now because you can strawman the poo poo out of SJWs or whatever to feel more enlightened or cutting edge
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Jun 18, 2014 16:21
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