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Popular Thug Drink posted:also the CRA wasn't an amendment so it didn't need to be ratified so i don't see how you can say "the majority of whites" when popular opinion didn't really matter, it was a purely legislative act, there was never a popular vote Not to mention that the CRA shattered the Democratic party and set the stage for reactionaries to take over the other party and begin a program of rolling back civil rights wherever they can (Hello, Chief Justice Roberts!) WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Like most of you are so appalled at the idea of black america not having a lot of agency and the neccessity of getting support from a large part of white america to achive thier goals, but how could it have been any other way? If blacks had any power in the society they would not of been slaves or second class citizens to begin with. Of course they had to work and convince part of white society to help. Convincing racist white people not to be so racist is a pretty big achievement of black activists in and of itself. Way to ignore every single refutation of what you're saying though. Because once again, if a majority of whites supported the CRA, black activism would have been unnecessary. Whites preferred the CRA to gunning down blacks in the street, but it's pretty drat hard to argue that if they had the option of preserving Jim Crow without mass killings that white Americans wouldn't have done it. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 21:50
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Again i dont think whites deserbe any credit. I just think its odd to see a black person or white liberal carry on about how we want to reenslave the blacks. If our society wanted slavery back we would already have it.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:53
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really they should be grateful that WHITES took them out of africa, into the united states. need some reparations for that, 500 years overdue ocean cruise fares
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Jun 18, 2014 21:53
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WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Again i dont think whites deserbe any credit. I just think its odd to see a black person or white liberal carry on about how we want to reenslave the blacks. If our society wanted slavery back we would already have it. Uh ok but-- WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Ha. What do you mean "If they could"? Although blacks did play a minor part in securing thier rights, we got rid of slavery and segregation because thats what white america wanted. So white people don't deserve credit, but black people played only a minor part in white people getting rid of segregation. So who gets the major credit then, pixies?
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Jun 18, 2014 21:55
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WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Like most of you are so appalled at the idea of black america not having a lot of agency and the neccessity of getting support from a large part of white america to achive thier goals, but how could it have been any other way? If blacks had any power in the society they would not of been slaves or second class citizens to begin with. Of course they had to work and convince part of white society to help. I'd argue that you can differentiate between franchise and agency. Blacks possessed agency but not franchise. Of course I might be twirling off into some EP Thompson wrongthink here.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:55
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VitalSigns posted:Uh ok but-- I shamefully admit my first post was a poo poo post. After that i got more into an interting discussion.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you're saying white people deserve more credit for the civil rights movement than black people. that's just dumb. nobody's appalled at you being dumb and wrong about history, dude. you're just wrong. this is my emotionally neutral writing tone -> you are wrong, and don't understand history
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Jun 18, 2014 22:17
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I think debt bondage is more likely at this point than racial chattel slavery. How likely I believe it to be, exactly, depends on how cynical I'm feeling at any given moment.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:21
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This does not have a single thing to do with being grateful, this has to do with looking at the decisions white America has made before, which might be relevant to the question "Would they attempt to re-enslave black people?" or "How far is white America willing to go?" Well that's the "if they could" part, isn't it? If white people could take away the franchise from blacks without having to gun them down, would they? Maybe, I mean, state after state is passing laws to get away with as much disenfranchisement as they can. As for re-establishing slavery: is it really moral considerations that are preventing its return or do economic constraints factor into it? I mean, from a moral standpoint, every single Christian should support food stamps, but keeping taxes low is a benefit to large moneyed interests which have spent a lot of money convincing the majority of white people that starving the poor is not only morally permissible, but noble! You can bet your rear end that if slavery were economically profitable, the Heritage Foundation would be publishing paper after paper singing the praises of that peculiar institution in preventing crime and keeping the black family together. And given that a sizeable number of conservatives believe that now (Hi Cliven Bundy, oh hey there Paul Ryan!), it's not self-evident that in such a world businesses interests would fail at convincing a majority of whites to support it. After all, that's exactly what happened the first time around when the Catholic Church's denunciation of New World slavery did precisely dick against the profits of the sugar, cotton, and tobacco interests.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:37
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wateroverfire posted:If someone started in with "all gay people <something>" and then told you to pat yourself on the head and shut up if it didn't apply to you specifically you'd have a lot to say about that. It's the same thing. I honestly think that the issue is less that people like you are bad or racist or something and more that you just have a really terrible imagination. Seriously, it isn't difficult to imagine why it would be extremely obnoxious for a group that doesn't face anything approaching the level of discrimination and other problems you face as a result of your race/gender/whatever to keep chiming in about their own feelings. Here is an example (and one of the only ones I can think of where a white person could legitimately complain about the way they're treated based on their race): Imagine that you're some white (or any non-Japanese race) dude living for the long term in Japan*. By all accounts this is supposed to be really difficult and uncomfortable because Japanese people are extremely racist and will generalize the gently caress out of you. Imagine that you're discussing with your fellow ex-pats the various problems you experience due to being white in Japan. Some Japanese guy you know decides to start talking about how he often feels uncomfortable about the expectations society has of him. Even though his feelings and issues might be genuine, they're not really relevant to the discussion at hand. And this is being very generous. A more accurate (to the discussion in this thread) analogy might be one where said Japanese dude is complaining about how it personally offends him that white/black minorities complain about their treatment by other Japanese people. It shouldn't be difficult to imagine why people are bothered by the sort of attitudes you and a few other posters in this thread have had. Most decent people will take others at their word when they say "hey, doing this bothers me" and not be offended by it. As others have said, you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to chime in with how much it bothers you that white/male voices sometimes aren't appreciated. *There aren't really many countries where being white is worse than being another race and doesn't confer any number of benefits.
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Jun 18, 2014 23:22
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^^^Sounds like somebody's never heard of Obama's America 
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Jun 18, 2014 23:25
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Ytlaya posted:I honestly think that the issue is less that people like you are bad or racist or something and more that you just have a really terrible imagination. Seriously, it isn't difficult to imagine why it would be extremely obnoxious for a group that doesn't face anything approaching the level of discrimination and other problems you face as a result of your race/gender/whatever to keep chiming in about their own feelings. The entire point of dialogue is allowing people to speak. Attempting to stifle people, for whatever reason may be politically popular at the time, is still bad practice. The problem with "white people shut up" is that in the context of that conversation, it's no longer a dialogue. It's someone preaching you the one single truth as they see it and attempting to demonize and marginalize people when they have the temerity to interrupt the sermon. If you don't want to be interrupted, don't speak in absolutes in regards to huge swathes of society. It's not that hard.
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Jun 19, 2014 00:39
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When an oppressed group is speaking about oppression/discrimination it is really loving annoying when other people not in that group try to tell them that it's not that bad, or "well, that happened to me too so you are just being silly." Like, when talking about feminism there's almost always that guy who is "what about _____?" and ends up directing the conversation to being about them. This derails the conversation and makes it harder for people who are being screwed over to speak out about the things that are happening to them in depth. It's really frustrating and very repetitive. Someone even made a nice bingo card. 
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Jun 19, 2014 00:51
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natetimm posted:The entire point of dialogue is allowing people to speak. Attempting to stifle people, for whatever reason may be politically popular at the time, is still bad practice. The problem with "white people shut up" is that in the context of that conversation, it's no longer a dialogue. It's someone preaching you the one single truth as they see it and attempting to demonize and marginalize people when they have the temerity to interrupt the sermon. If you don't want to be interrupted, don't speak in absolutes in regards to huge swathes of society. It's not that hard. asking people to consider that their opinion may be useless and unwanted in certain contexts is not stifling debate you giant whiny baby. you're framing a conversation between people in public that you can choose to participate in or not as a sermon. i dont even understand how that makes sense unless you carry around a massive amount of internalized guilt causing you to defend the honor of whites when you have no reason to. you've seriously got your undies twisted over someone asking you to consider how your words make someone else feel marginalized. god drat son boner confessor fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 00:52
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Popular Thug Drink posted:asking people to consider that their opinion may be useless and unwanted in certain contexts is not stifling debate you giant whiny baby Wah I'm being marginalized either shut up and assent to my stupid opinions or open your mouth and be branded a racist!
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Jun 19, 2014 00:56
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natetimm posted:Wah I'm being marginalized either shut up and assent to my stupid opinions or open your mouth and be branded a racist! BINGO
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Jun 19, 2014 00:58
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natetimm posted:Wah I'm being marginalized either shut up and assent to my stupid opinions or open your mouth and be branded a racist! nobody's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to participate in these conversations. the fact that you frame them as sermons indicates you're carrying around a lot of baggage i mean generally people who are worried about being labeled a racist because they opened their mouths, where there's smoke...
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Jun 19, 2014 01:02
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as a White Man i have a constitutional right to tell blacks that they're wrong and this makes ME the racist??? what happened to america??
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Jun 19, 2014 01:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:nobody's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to participate in these conversations. the fact that you frame them as sermons indicates you're carrying around a lot of baggage A conversation happens between multiple speaking people, not one sermonizing and telling the others why they shouldn't be allowed to speak. In a thread created by a white dude to talk specifically about white people and what they may or may not do, you still have the extremist tumblr warriors who have to interject to tell everyone just what they're allowed to talk about according to them. This thread isn't an instance of a marginalized person talking about how bad they have it being overridden by annoying white people, and the fact that the argument used for that situation was brought in here just shows it to be the shallow, vaguely racist canned response it truly is.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:07
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natetimm posted:
Tough poo poo you racist baby. Maybe you're not loud enough, maybe you should spend a little money and make sure most of Congress and authority in general looks like you so you can get what you want and shut down these clearly dominating tumblr warriors that exist only in your insane arguments.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:09
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natetimm posted:A conversation happens between multiple speaking people, not one sermonizing and telling the others why they shouldn't be allowed to speak. how are you not grasping the very simple fact that you are not a member of a conversation just because you happen to see/read it or otherwise come across it. you choose to participate in a conversation and by making that choice you provide the chance to expose yourself as the racist you desperately wish avoid being seriously even moderately functioning autists understand this why are you having so much trouble with basic social interaction natetimm, amusingly incapable of not butting into strangers conversations on the sidewalk to blurt out "I-I-I'm NOT a racist!" before scuttling away natetimm, so insecure about his racial animosity that he'll leap to the defense of white people given the slightest opportunity to do so because remaining silent simply is not an option boner confessor fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 01:14
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Nonsense posted:Tough poo poo you racist baby. Maybe you're not loud enough, maybe you should spend a little money and make sure most of Congress and authority in general looks like you so you can get what you want and shut down these clearly dominating tumblr warriors that exist only in your insane arguments. Right, and you keep pushing forward your vile, lovely version of Tumblr social justice to make it as unpalatable as possible and undo decades of advancement by others. You want to complain about white idiots who interrupt conversations with dumb questions or statements, that's fine. However, when you and your assbag SJW friends intentionally hunt down threads where a white person is asking for information and opinions that don't interrupt or marginalize anyone and still fill it up with your petty bullshit answers, that's represntational of your gang and your movement. It's OK though, because most reasonable people are getting wise to this version of petty bullying bullshit and rightly calling you out for the garbage it is.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:19
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natetimm posted:Right, and you keep pushing forward your vile, lovely version of Tumblr social justice to make it as unpalatable as possible and undo decades of advancement by others. i wasn't aware there was a tumblr dedicated to telling stupid people on the something awful forums how stupid they are
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Jun 19, 2014 01:22
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natetimm posted:Right, and you keep pushing forward your vile, lovely version of Tumblr social justice to make it as unpalatable as possible and undo decades of advancement by others. BINGO!
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Jun 19, 2014 01:23
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natetimm posted:Right, and you keep pushing forward your vile, lovely version of Tumblr social justice to make it as unpalatable as possible and undo decades of advancement by others. Yeah people are really going into threads that feature you, and feature YOUR PEOPLE and calling you a shithead RANDOMLY and INTERRUPTING YOUR PEOPLE, it's not just some crazy coincidence when somebody calls you a shithead in a thread where your posts are freely read by different people besides SJW assbags. BINGO!
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Jun 19, 2014 01:24
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Nonsense posted:Yeah people are really going into threads that feature you, and feature YOUR PEOPLE and calling you a shithead RANDOMLY and INTERRUPTING YOUR PEOPLE, it's not just some crazy coincidence when somebody calls you a shithead in a thread where your posts are freely read by different people besides SJW assbags. It's not even what they're calling me, it's seeking out this thread in particular, where nobody interrupted anyone on telling the world how bad they were marginalized, and then told them to shut up because they are white. The basis of your entire argument revolves around white people interrupting and saying stupid things, yet you brought that premise into a thread where nobody was having a conversation that was interrupted by white people in the first place. It's almost like that entire line of argumentation exists simply as a fall back safe point for people to manipulate the conversation.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:30
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natetimm posted:It's not even what they're calling me, it's seeking out this thread in particular, where nobody interrupted anyone on telling the world how bad they were marginalized, and then told them to shut up because they are white. The basis of your entire argument revolves around white people interrupting and saying stupid things, yet you brought that premise into a thread where nobody was having a conversation that was interrupted by white people in the first place. It's almost like that entire line of argumentation exists simply as a fall back safe point for people to manipulate the conversation. The OP is all about him interrupting another's conversation on Facebook with #notallwhites poo poo.  This is classic derailment. You've got minorities talking about ways they are oppressed by whites, and sure as sunshine they have to deal with  "excuse me, you are generalizing but something less than 100.00% of white people are responsible for your oppression or benefit thereby, and I just happen to be the one white man who never oppressed anyone nor benefitted from his whiteness, prove me wrong or you're being reverse racist."It's a pretty big difference between saying "White people oppress blacks in America" and "black people steal TVs". First, the former is true almost always; second, requiring minorities to add #notallwhites in every sentence takes the focus off of the very real problem; and third, if generalizations about white people hurt your feelies you have one option to deal with such racist stereotypes that minorities don't have: you get to ignore it because it causes you zero actual harm and it has no material effect on your life. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 01:56
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Using the term SJW as a slur is on par with expressing your affiliation with "white pride" or "men's rights". It doesn't necessarily make you a priveleged rear end in a top hat but it sure makes you hard to distinguish from one.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:57
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VitalSigns posted:you get to ignore it because it causes you zero actual harm and it has no material effect on your life. i actually don't think natetimm is capable of ignoring this, please don't handishame
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Jun 19, 2014 02:03
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This thread is whiter than the average homeowner's association. White people yelling about white people.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:06
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JeffersonClay posted:Using the term SJW as a slur is on par with expressing your affiliation with "white pride" or "men's rights". It doesn't necessarily make you a priveleged rear end in a top hat but it sure makes you hard to distinguish from one. It was said in some other thread, but calling someone a SJW is just the 21st century way to say friend of the family-lover.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:08
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VitalSigns posted:The OP is all about him interrupting another's conversation on Facebook with #notallwhites poo poo. Except instead of continuing his argument and iterruption he made this thread here, where nobody got interrupted and yet the same poo poo arguments were thrown at him, hilariously probably by mostly white people. Also, LOL at SJW=friend of the family lover. drat you folks really are full of yourself.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:11
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It was a joke thread by a negative postcount dude in gbs.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:12
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natetimm posted:Except instead of continuing his argument and iterruption he made this thread here, where nobody got interrupted and yet the same poo poo arguments were thrown at him, hilariously probably by mostly white people. Would you mean uppity? I think you mean uppity.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:13
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nutranurse posted:It was said in some other thread, but calling someone a SJW is just the 21st century way to say friend of the family-lover. That's incorrect because no one thinks you actually like black people as opposed to just liking the ability to be insufferably self righteous
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Jun 19, 2014 02:13
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I mean I can kind of understand because you guys were sold dogma and opinions masquerading as intellectualism and facts for the price of lifetime debt and you're trying to justify it somehow but drat...
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Jun 19, 2014 02:16
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natetimm posted:I mean I can kind of understand because you guys were sold dogma and opinions masquerading as intellectualism and facts for the price of lifetime debt and you're trying to justify it somehow but drat... "i hate education, tumblr, and not being able to tell the blacks how it really is" -natetimm
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Jun 19, 2014 02:19
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By getting called an annoying poo poo for participating in circle-jerk threads on a forum literally whiter than stormfront, I have earned the right to compare myself to people who have actually faced irl racism
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Jun 19, 2014 02:19
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Everybody faces racism. what do you mean? 
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Jun 19, 2014 02:21
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Popular Thug Drink posted:"i hate education, tumblr, and not being able to tell the blacks how it really is" -natetimm I only actually hate one of those things but I'll leave it up to you to decide which.
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Jun 19, 2014 02:21
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