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expect the legal marijuana industry to fight against other drug legalization, just like the alcohol and medical marijuana industries have against legal marijuana
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Jun 17, 2014 16:09
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Jeffrey posted:expect the legal marijuana industry to fight against other drug legalization, just like the alcohol and medical marijuana industries have against legal marijuana That's super depressing but I can't see it happening any other way. But if the social perception of these drugs change, we might still see some progress. After all, millions of people already on anti depressants or meds for ADD are taking mind altering chemicals that pharmaceutical companies make billions off of; it's just socially acceptable to take those pills and not LSD.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:50
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Powercrazy posted:I'm not actually convinced that LSD exists anymore at least not nearly in the quantities claimed. There are plenty of chemicals you can get that are sold as "LSD" but usually they turn out to be some of the dozens of other research compounds that claim to have similar effects. There's relatively few compounds that are active in the microgram-level quantities that can be dosed by blotter, so it's pretty likely that stuff on blotter is actually LSD. It's not quite a universal guarantee nowadays, I know there's at least one psychedelic RC that is active at that dosage. But it's not something you'll run into every day, you're pretty likely to be getting real acid, albeit probably weak and crappy. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 17:55
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Curious, is there anyone on the forum who opposes drug legalization?
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Jun 17, 2014 18:07
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AYC posted:Curious, is there anyone on the forum who opposes drug legalization? I don't support blanket, free-for-all drug legalization, though I think most drugs that are available now should be legal for adults to purchase. I don't have any principles saying drugs should be legal or anything, each drug should be judged by the actual consequences of keeping it criminalized vs not doing so. I can certainly conceive of drugs that, if they existed, should be illegal.
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Jun 17, 2014 18:11
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Jeffrey posted:I don't support blanket, free-for-all drug legalization, though I think most drugs that are available now should be legal for adults to purchase. I don't have any principles saying drugs should be legal or anything, each drug should be judged by the actual consequences of keeping it criminalized vs not doing so. I can certainly conceive of drugs that, if they existed, should be illegal. The most I would support for an extremely dangerous drug (heroin, for example) would be decriminalization and referral to public health services (single-payer, ideally). So if you shoot up heroin, you go through a detox program rather than to prison. Other soft drugs which can be used safely (marijuana, LSD, MDMA, etc) should be legalized for adult use (19+ maybe, though I can settle for 21), with public education programs so people know what each drug does and don't accidentally eat/take too much of any given drug.
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Jun 17, 2014 18:15
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Jeffrey posted:expect the legal marijuana industry to fight against other drug legalization, just like the alcohol and medical marijuana industries have against legal marijuana Not only that, expect a lot less public support for other drugs if only due to lack of exposure.
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Jun 17, 2014 18:25
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Salt Fish posted:I don't see any reason to think she made it up. Her description is an accurate description of getting way too high on an edible. She probably smoked in college and thought she was up to the challenge. Kind of proves the opposite of her point about how "dangerous" it is, though. Purposely abuse cannabis: A few hours of being uncomfortable. Purposely abuse pretty much any other drug: Most likely end up in hospital, possibly dead.
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Jun 17, 2014 18:51
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fade5 posted:Yeah, I'd imagine mushrooms would be the next thing, since a lot of the arguments for legal weed can be flipped over to mushrooms with not too much trouble. There's also the "nature" argument, IE it grows naturally, so what's wrong with growing a few mushrooms for yourself? (Nothing.) I can only see things like needle exchanges happening for injected drugs, and even then only in relatively progressive or at least densely populated urban places. Mushrooms are realistic I suppose, if only because they're everywhere, but I don't know that there's the kind of public support for that yet.
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Jun 17, 2014 18:57
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Paul MaudDib posted:There's relatively few compounds that are active in the microgram-level quantities that can be dosed by blotter, so it's pretty likely that stuff on blotter is actually LSD. The specific ones I've had experience with are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C_%28psychedelics%29 . I don't know if they are harmful or the preferred dosages or what, but I know they aren't LSD and as a consumer who is looking for LSD, I wish I didn't have to buy a test kit to make sure what I intend to buy is what I'm actually getting.
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Jun 18, 2014 01:19
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AYC posted:Curious, is there anyone on the forum who opposes drug legalization? You, apparently.
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Jun 18, 2014 01:23
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Internet Webguy posted:Kind of proves the opposite of her point about how "dangerous" it is, though. That's a valid point that deserves more attention. Almost literally any other drug at that quantity and Dowd's article would have had a much more tragic ending than "the internet laughs at and mocks you."
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Jun 18, 2014 01:26
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Jeffrey posted:expect the legal marijuana industry to fight against other drug legalization, just like the alcohol and medical marijuana industries have against legal marijuana Yep, it's just smart business.
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Jun 18, 2014 02:56
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SedanChair posted:You, apparently. Please go back under your troll bridge. I'm not diving into your circlejerk.
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Jun 18, 2014 04:41
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TACD posted:Remember that until fairly recently (~2005 I think?) mushrooms were legal to buy in the UK - unprepared only and 'not for consumption' but it wasn't at all unusual to just be able to walk into a headshop or visit a festival stall and pick up an afternoon's entertainment. I wonder if the demand is large enough to support a legalisation push though; even when they were available it was (or seemed to be) a fairly niche market In May 2005 I was in London for a few days and went to Camden Market and saw mushrooms for sale in every storefront. Many in weird plastic packaging and such. I thought for sure they weren't real shrooms, but I guess they were. I had no idea they were legal there. It looks like they were banned a few months later. Wild. Edit: Jesus, 7 years in jail for possession. Are you kidding me? Philthy fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 05:31
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Philthy posted:In May 2005 I was in London for a few days and went to Camden Market and saw mushrooms for sale in every storefront. Many in weird plastic packaging and such. I thought for sure they weren't real shrooms, but I guess they were. I had no idea they were legal there. It looks like they were banned a few months later. Wild. The UK decided to make up for being late to the banning party by going full red state nutso on the jail terms.
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Jun 18, 2014 05:41
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Jeffrey posted:expect the legal marijuana industry to fight against other drug legalization, just like the alcohol and medical marijuana industries have against legal marijuana My interactions with the industry have not indicated that. As far as discussions go where they relate to marijuana research and competition with other drugs there is no serious discussion. The marijuana industry in Colorado makes a metric poo poo ton of money and are running at capacity for the time being as I hear things. There is no competition even between dispensaries because the product flows out and the people that buy it are happy though this is for a limited collection of the highest end dispensaries. If you have 10,000 square feet of grow area and its legal and everyone at your business is making money then they appear to be enjoying the money that they're making and are happy making patients happy and happy making recreational users happy. Also you can't produce 10x more in the same space so why create conflicts and limit the industry. Really my interactions have been very positive and rational.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:19
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One of the few concerns I have with national marijuana legalization is the large-scale corporatization of the industry. I like the "Mom & Pop" Colorado rec shops, and I'd much rather choose from a variety of local dispensaries than buy my weed from Phillip Morris.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:28
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AYC posted:One of the few concerns I have with national marijuana legalization is the large-scale corporatization of the industry. I like the "Mom & Pop" Colorado rec shops, and I'd much rather choose from a variety of local dispensaries than buy my weed from Phillip Morris. That's hardly sufficient reason to argue against legalization, though, considering the harms association with marijuana's present status.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:36
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AYC posted:Curious, is there anyone on the forum who opposes drug legalization? SedanChair posted:You, apparently. AYC posted:Please go back under your troll bridge. I'm not diving into your circlejerk. AYC posted:One of the few concerns I have with national marijuana legalization is the large-scale corporatization of the industry. I like the "Mom & Pop" Colorado rec shops, and I'd much rather choose from a variety of local dispensaries than buy my weed from Phillip Morris. Ease up on the chronic there holmes, you seem to be having a tough time keeping track of your own arguments.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:43
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AYC posted:One of the few concerns I have with national marijuana legalization is the large-scale corporatization of the industry. I like the "Mom & Pop" Colorado rec shops, and I'd much rather choose from a variety of local dispensaries than buy my weed from Phillip Morris. Why? Small businesses are often much worse on employees, and it's not like the big cigarette companies run their own stores either.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:49
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SedanChair posted:Ease up on the chronic there holmes, you seem to be having a tough time keeping track of your own arguments. "Concerns" isn't always code for "opposition". Nintendo Kid posted:Why? Small businesses are often much worse on employees, and it's not like the big cigarette companies run their own stores either. I think a better comparison is microbreweries. It's good to have options, and not just a de facto cartel of companies selling mediocre product. hepatizon fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 04:50
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ChlamydiaJones posted:My interactions with the industry have not indicated that. As far as discussions go where they relate to marijuana research and competition with other drugs there is no serious discussion. The marijuana industry in Colorado makes a metric poo poo ton of money and are running at capacity for the time being as I hear things. There is no competition even between dispensaries because the product flows out and the people that buy it are happy though this is for a limited collection of the highest end dispensaries. And look at all the shops that were medical only that were ready for adding recreational marijuana to their shelves. I'm sure they ended up making even more money just by adding that to their stores. Unless you want your store to be medical-only, you'd be crazy not to sell recreational weed alongside your medical products.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:01
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Cigarettes are a dying industry, however some specialty tobacconists do exist, Cigars and roll your own tobacco cigarettes. I'd expect weed to end up more like the micro-brew culture though. But who knows. Also holy poo poo America has the best weed in the world except for Amsterdam, but we are quickly catching up. I just got back from Jamaica and I took a gander at the offerings and they are sad. It's not even worth it.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:03
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hepatizon posted:"Concerns" isn't always code for "opposition". Sure it is. There's no need to be concern trolling about the encroachment of corporate America, AYC will always be able to buy whatever kind of gluten- and cruelty-free weed he likes.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:12
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AYC posted:One of the few concerns I have with national marijuana legalization is the large-scale corporatization of the industry. I like the "Mom & Pop" Colorado rec shops, and I'd much rather choose from a variety of local dispensaries than buy my weed from Phillip Morris. I'd rather not buy my beer from Anheuser-Busch or MillerCoors, actually I utterly despise their lovely "beer," but I never have to buy from them at all. I would imagine it to be the same w/r/t marijuana as long as the regulatory system is set up well. There will always be demand for a quality product and people willing to pay the price premium.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:12
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hepatizon posted:I think a better comparison is microbreweries. It's good to have options, and not just a de facto cartel of companies selling mediocre product. Well yeah that exists, so I don't know why he thinks everything but the 3 biggest weed companies would vanish with nationwide legalization.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:21
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MaxxBot posted:I'd rather not buy my beer from Anheuser-Busch or MillerCoors, actually I utterly despise their lovely "beer," but I never have to buy from them at all. I would imagine it to be the same w/r/t marijuana as long as the regulatory system is set up well. There will always be demand for a quality product and people willing to pay the price premium. Sure, but even in the 70s, four decades after probhition, you wouldn't have had that choice, thanks to a regulatory system that was not set up well. So it's a legitimate concern.
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Jun 19, 2014 06:39
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I don't understand, if I (in a future world where cannabis is legal under federal law) can get a pack of Winston AK-47 Blend, great. Literally great, I don't give a flying gently caress about mom and pop.
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Jun 19, 2014 06:46
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hepatizon posted:Sure, but even in the 70s, four decades after probhition, you wouldn't have had that choice, thanks to a regulatory system that was not set up well. So it's a legitimate concern. If you really think no local beers existed in the 70s, you just don't know what you're talking about. Remember that microbrewery was originally intended to mean actually small time brewing, not just "has fewer customers than coors".
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Jun 19, 2014 06:53
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hepatizon posted:Sure, but even in the 70s, four decades after probhition, you wouldn't have had that choice, thanks to a regulatory system that was not set up well. So it's a legitimate concern.
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Jun 19, 2014 07:08
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What I regret about the push in Washington is that it was funded by criminal millionaires who intended to set up and control supply from the very start.
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Jun 19, 2014 07:12
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SedanChair posted:Sure it is. There's no need to be concern trolling about the encroachment of corporate America, AYC will always be able to buy whatever kind of gluten- and cruelty-free weed he likes. The name of this forum is "Debate Disco," not "Circlejerk Disco." That means we discuss and debate all of the implications of marijuana legalization. Believing that marijuana should not be on the shelf at Safeway does not make me Nancy Reagan. Given the terrible quality of national beer brands verses local breweries, I think this is an interesting discussion to have. Even if its a long term concern, since national legalization is probably at least a decade away.
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Jun 19, 2014 07:57
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Most local breweries are mediocre (IE coors level) at best, you should really stop hyping them up, honestly. Same is gonna be true for weed.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:08
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Nintendo Kid posted:Most local breweries are mediocre (IE coors level) at best, you should really stop hyping them up, honestly.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:57
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MaxxBot posted:I'd rather not buy my beer from Anheuser-Busch or MillerCoors, actually I utterly despise their lovely "beer," but I never have to buy from them at all. I would imagine it to be the same w/r/t marijuana as long as the regulatory system is set up well. There will always be demand for a quality product and people willing to pay the price premium. All of the large American brewers (not that there's really any distinction these days when the same entity makes Stella and Bud) make a perfectly passable, inoffensive, consistent lager. It's the same style of beer that's the best seller in pretty much every country. Microbreweries (or subsidiaries of major breweries, not that anyone ever notices) are great, and hopefully the marijuana industry follows similar lines. But I'm not averse to having the option of something like a pack of Altria joints - a cheap, standardized product broadly available in any market. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 12:32
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bawfuls posted:Where do you live that this is the sad state of affairs? Everywhere in the country. Plenty of small time brewers simply don't make anything special. And it's not like it's realistic to expect more either.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:29
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Nintendo Kid posted:Everywhere in the country. Plenty of small time brewers simply don't make anything special. And it's not like it's realistic to expect more either. That's just like, your opinion, man.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:18
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bawfuls posted:Where do you live that this is the sad state of affairs? Most Brewers are poo poo, hard to believe but it true. Now there are several like Dogfish head, Arrogant Bastard, Harpoon, Great Barrier and dozens of others that are excellent, but as a general rule just because its a "microbrew" doesn't magically make it better than Bud.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:19
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Around here at least (MN) microbreweries produce a vastly different product than macrobreweries do, so it's not really possible to compare the two. Macrobreweries make low cost, low abv adjunct lagers. Microbreweries product much more expensive, higher alcohol beers in various different styles.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:44
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