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Pham Nuwen posted:I'm halfway through Raising Steam and there's... just not really any conflict yet. Exactly what happened to me.
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Jun 15, 2014 13:57
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Jesus Christ, Night Watch got incredibly dark when they went in the cellar of the Unmentionables.  Also I might just be an idiot, but I was very confused about two "action" based things that happened afterwards. Did Vimes cut Swing's throat open with a ruler? Or just smash his windpipe? Like what? And how did he mess up the siege weapon? He used ginger to make the oxen go crazy I guess? But the other stuff?
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Jun 16, 2014 15:35
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VagueRant posted:Jesus Christ, Night Watch got incredibly dark when they went in the cellar of the Unmentionables. He nailed wedges to the things wheels so that it couldn't roll, then he stuck ginger up the oxen's rear end, which apparently makes them go insane. The oxen tried to run but Big Mary couldn't roll with it, so it fell over.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:17
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Nihilarian posted:then he stuck ginger up the oxen's rear end, which apparently makes them go insane. For more detail on the real life practice described in the spoiler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingering
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Jun 16, 2014 21:03
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Pham Nuwen posted:I'm halfway through Raising Steam and there's... just not really any conflict yet. To follow up, I've finished it and there just wasn't anything to it. Ok, so they make a train, and spend a great deal of time talking about how the train gets developed and extended. Nobody ever really tries seriously to stop the train, it's very clear that everything the grags do is pretty useless, and it just kind of keeps getting more advanced. The grags knock over clacks towers and mess with the coal stops, but they keep getting their asses kicked and the clacks/railway just rebuild right away. The only real conflict comes from Ardent usurps the Scone. I should note that this doesn't happen until over 3/4 of the way through the book, up until this point it's all railway chat with the occasional note about how the grags really are such naughty lads and we'll have to do something about the rascals. So the King gets on the train and rides the train all the way to Uberwald, with Moist and the guards handily beating the pathetic opposition from the agents of the grags. They've disconnected the guard van? Oh that's ok, we'll just have Bluejohn catch us up on a handcart in half a page, now we're back on it. They get to Uberwald, there's a page or two of the essentially bloodless counter-revolutionary action, and then Rhys is back in charge. And the big reveal of the King being the Queen was not much of a surprise, starting with the mention of the sound of a kiss halfway through, then as soon as the midwife gives that meaningful look when she gets near Rhys... I mean come on. I'm sorry, I love Discworld but this book was rubbish. I haven't really loved any book since the introduction of Moist, but this was especially egregious.
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Jun 17, 2014 07:27
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Well, the King being the Queen has been known about much, much longer than before Raising Steam. It's not really meant to be a surprise.
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Jun 17, 2014 08:45
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SystemLogoff posted:Well, the King being the Queen has been known about much, much longer than before Raising Steam. It's not really meant to be a surprise. That's good, at least. Where was it originally written? It's been a while since I've read the last few DW books and I haven't read Snuff yet Edit: vv hell it's been a long time since I read that one. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 15:55
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Fifth Elephant
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Jun 17, 2014 16:14
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It's not said outright, but it is heavily implied. The King tells Cheery something about "Do let me know the name of your dressmaker, I might have some custom for them".
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Jun 17, 2014 21:05
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Finally started reading Discworld after having the first handful of novels on my shelf for the better part of my life. I don't know why I waited so long. The Color of Magic/The Light Fantastic were pretty great. I'm in the middle of Equal Rites right now, which is really different from the first two as people have said. It's not exactly very funny, nor does the Discworld even seem very prevalent in the novel. It's almost like it doesn't even need to be a Discworld book, not that I'm a discworld expert or something. However, I'm enjoying it more than I expected given the reputation it has. Really looking forward to finishing it and reading Mort. I love the character of Death and the prospect of a novel centered on him sounds like a lot of fun. I guess there is going to be a whole lot of CAPITAL LETTERS in that novel. What novel would you guys say is the one where Discworld really takes off and Pratchett really finds his voice? I'm sure there is no hard line answer to that, but I'm interested in what you guys think. Also, man is it nice taking in a few ~200 page books lately. I've been reading some huge rear end books back-to-back non stop for a while. It's nice to be able to down a book in a couple of days again. Damo fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 03:56
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http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-20.jpg For each series: Sorcery, Wyrd Sisters, Reaper Man, Guards! Guards!. It's in these four the discworld starts to become whole.
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Jun 18, 2014 05:15
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I finished Night Watch. I think the hype did slightly ruin it for me. It was still good, and it seemed to take a far more serious tone than the previous books and had better writing to go with it...But I feel like I have better memories with Guards! Guards! and Jingo. Now I'm wondering which one I should go for next. Straight on to Thud! (from the sounds of it, I should ignore Snuff?), or perhaps give Going Postal a try? Or go back and do The Truth? (Is that the one I've heard about where the Watch plays an antagonistic role? Also is that anything to do with the brief reference in Night Watch to arresting the Patrician?) Nihilarian posted:Metal rulers can be pretty dangerous! I'm pretty sure he cut Swing's throat with it. He mentions blood coming out of it. Konstantin posted:I consider Night Watch to be a very strong second to Going Postal, but there is one passage in particular that is absolutely some of the best writing I've ever seen. It's great because it's not a climactic scene or a battle or anything like that, it's a description about how the partial blockade of a city affects the distribution of agricultural goods. It's a perfect example of what makes Pratchett a great writer, anyone can write about interesting things, but Pratchett can make even the most mundane and boring concepts sound absolutely epic. It's also an example of the razor-sharp, perfectly edited writing that seems to be missing from his recent books.
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Jun 18, 2014 07:41
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VagueRant posted:I finished Night Watch. I think the hype did slightly ruin it for me. It was still good, and it seemed to take a far more serious tone than the previous books and had better writing to go with it...But I feel like I have better memories with Guards! Guards! and Jingo. Have you read Colour of Magic or Light Fantastic yet? Totally different from pretty much everything else but I really enjoy them. It's sort of like watching the pilot of a great TV series: a lot of the elements are there, and there's a charming roughness to things, but it's definitely the first cut.
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Jun 18, 2014 07:45
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He arrested the Patrician in Jingo, remember?
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Jun 18, 2014 07:55
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Pidmon posted:He arrested the Patrician in Jingo, remember? No, it was in The Truth. He arrested both armies in Jingo. Although he did also technically arrest him in Guards,Guards too. Eighties ZomCom fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 10:31
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EvilTaytoMan posted:No, it was in The Truth. He arrested both armies in Jingo. Although he did also technically arrest him in Guards,Guards too. No, it was Jingo. After they return to the city Vimes is forced to arrest Vetinari so he can be made to answer for surrendering to Klatch.
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Jun 18, 2014 11:42
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Yeah, he definitely arrested him in Jingo. Colon and Nobby offer to drag him through the city on a trampoline.
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Jun 18, 2014 12:26
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Yeah I got it mixed up with Guards Guards.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:27
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VagueRant posted:I finished Night Watch. I think the hype did slightly ruin it for me. It was still good, and it seemed to take a far more serious tone than the previous books and had better writing to go with it...But I feel like I have better memories with Guards! Guards! and Jingo. I'm sorry to hear that you were a bit disappointed in Night Watch.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:34
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VagueRant posted:I'm curious as to what you're referring to. Any chance you could post the quote? It's too long to post here, but it starts right after Vimes destroys Big Mary and looks at his cigar case. The interesting thing about it is that it isn't strictly needed, you can cut that part out and it wouldn't affect the plot much at all. It's purely a case of Pratchett showing off and explaining the entire concept of logistics in a few pages of expository writing. As someone who worked in that field, it really struck a chord with me, because so many people take the incredibly complex and fragile systems that we all rely on to supply us with our basic needs for granted.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:36
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Konstantin posted:It's too long to post here, but it starts right after It can mostly be summarized with a few paragraphs. quote:In a few hours, the shops out there were expecting deliveries, and they weren’t going to arrive. The government couldn’t sit this one out. A city like Ankh-Morpork was only two meals away from chaos at the best of times.
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Jun 18, 2014 20:11
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I loved Thud, thought I Shall Wear Midnight was OK, really found Unseen Academicals lame and disappointing, haven't read anything since. Have I missed anything good?
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Jun 19, 2014 02:06
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Entropic posted:I loved Thud, thought I Shall Wear Midnight was OK, really found Unseen Academicals lame and disappointing, haven't read anything since. Have I missed anything good? Nope.
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Jun 19, 2014 10:53
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I think Nation came out between Thud and Academicals, so if you haven't read that you should. It's not Discworld.
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Jun 19, 2014 11:17
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The Long Mars is out today in the UK.
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Jun 19, 2014 14:46
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Pham Nuwen posted:To follow up, I've finished it and there just wasn't anything to it. It was the first and only Discworld book I just couldn't get through.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:00
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withak posted:The Long Mars is out today in the UK. Ehhhh. The second book was bad enough that I think I just won't bother.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:27
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FactsAreUseless posted:I think Nation came out between Thud and Academicals, so if you haven't read that you should. It's not Discworld. Nation is amazing. It's seriously great.
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Jun 20, 2014 05:03
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MonsieurChoc posted:Nation is amazing. It's seriously great.
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Jun 20, 2014 12:01
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FactsAreUseless posted:This is a correct opinion. Nation is on the short list for Pratchett's best work. The first third or so is the best thing he's ever put on paper. That's... an incredible recommendation. I'll have to get right on that. As someone who's favorite work of Pratchett's thus far have been Going Postal and Making Money, would you make the same recommendation with equal confidence?
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Jun 20, 2014 14:08
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dogoneshame posted:As someone who's favorite work of Pratchett's thus far have been Going Postal and Making Money, would you make the same recommendation with equal confidence? I would. Nation gets a tad wobbly at points, but it is without a doubt in the upper echelons of Pratchett's output and if you enjoyed Moist you ought to like it. Both the protagonists survive and thrive very much based on their wits and intuition.
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Jun 20, 2014 16:01
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dogoneshame posted:That's... an incredible recommendation. I'll have to get right on that.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:33
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FactsAreUseless posted:Since Making Money was awful, yes, regardless of your bad taste. It's a great book. It doesn't maintain the amazing quality of the first third throughout, but it's excellent nonetheless. I don't know if I'd call Making Money awful. It had some good moments, but it was just really samey. "yep here's moist getting into wacky adventures to restore a dying old government institution with a weird obsessive kid and a slightly crazy traditionalist old dude!" Like, it wasn't bad, it was just...generic. raising steam was poo poo though
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Jun 20, 2014 18:42
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's a great book. It doesn't maintain the amazing quality of the first third throughout, but it's excellent nonetheless. Yeah, this. The first third is completely enthralling, so much so, that I wish that it went on for longer. The only niggle I have is with the some of the more metaphysical parts. Like Mau and Daphne's trip into the realm of death. Just Mau alone, as an ambiguous scene following on from his breakdown, and overcoming his trauma, I think would have felt more in tune with that universe - it feels too Discworldy otherwise, when it's trying to be its own thing. I'm finding it hard to articulate why, exactly. It still love the book though, and I think it's one of his better ones.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:45
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Pesky Splinter posted:Yeah, this. You just articulated why. When it was Mau alone there was an open question about weather or not his visions were actually supernatural, or if it was just a way for him to survive and heal from the trauma of losing his people. That ambiguity is beautiful and poignant, and it's lost once Pratchett tips his hand to reveal, without any doubt, that something metaphysical was going on. I think it could have even survived the 'shared dreaming' sequence between Mau and Daphne, but what really killed it was showing Mrs. Gurgle eating the dream fish at the end of that scene. Still, even with that weak part the book as a whole is outstanding.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:56
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Skippy McPants posted:You just articulated why. When it was Mau alone there was an open question about weather or not his visions were actually supernatural, or if it was just a way for him to survive and heal from the trauma of losing his people. That ambiguity is beautiful and poignant, and it's lost once Pratchett tips his hand to reveal, without any doubt, that something metaphysical was going on. I think it could have even survived the 'shared dreaming' sequence between Mau and Daphne, but what really killed it was showing Mrs. Gurgle eating the dream fish at the end of that scene. Yeah, a major theme of that book was the traditions of the island giving way to science, and it kind of takes away from that if it turns out that, nah, all the traditions were actually real and science was just wrong.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:22
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mossyfisk posted:Ehhhh. The second book was bad enough that I think I just won't bother. I've just had it auto-delivered to my Kindle, so must have ordered it at some point and forgotten about it. Still I have spent £7 on it apparently so I suppose I best read it.
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Jun 21, 2014 12:02
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davestones posted:I've just had it auto-delivered to my Kindle, so must have ordered it at some point and forgotten about it. Still I have spent £7 on it apparently so I suppose I best read it.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:13
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So there's a Discworld Lego Set that's being voted on if it'll become an official lego set or not. It's going around tumblr at the moment and according to that post... "Hey! There’s a Discworld lego set being voted on over at Lego.com. It needs 10,000 supporters to be considered as a viable set, and if it gets made, 50% of the proceeds will go to Alzheimer research in Sir Terry Pratchett’s name!" So, y'know, if you want to help kids get into the series maybe vote on it?
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Jun 22, 2014 03:52
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FactsAreUseless posted:I thought the same thing about Snuff, and boy was I wrong. My theory is it can't be any worse than some of the dross I have ever read in the past. I'm hoping that Stephen Baxter has basically taken over completely at this point now so as not to completely tarnish Pratchett's name.
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Jun 22, 2014 09:52
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