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Patter Song posted:One of my biggest problems with East vs West was that it was using HOI as a base and not Victoria, which is clearly what it should have done. Yeah HoI3's supply poo poo is still kind of flaky even after like 4 expansions so I can't really blame EvW for not being functional on anything other than Arcade on that front. Although it sounds like you're talking about just producing them...how the hell does that work, does shifting your entire war economy over to supplies produce increasingly few as time goes by or did you just suddenly run out? Also yeah, V2 is my favourite mapgame but it's tough to play when you see how streamlined their games are now. Although why they didn't put rally points in CK2 or EUIV is beyond me.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:27
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| # ? May 30, 2024 23:13 |
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Is the OP pretty accurate by stating Conquest of Paradise is the only EU4 dlc worth getting? Or is Waelth of Nations almost required too? I noticed it was released after the OP has last been updated.
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Jun 20, 2014 07:14
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Sorry, I haven't updated the OP to include newer things like Wealth of Nations yet; I'll update it tomorrow. I don't have that DLC yet, but it looks alright.
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Jun 20, 2014 07:35
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Could you also update the Victoria 2 write up? It mentions HoD as upcoming. Btw, have you played it at all post expansions and if so has that changed your opinion of the game any?
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Jun 20, 2014 15:10
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Thanks for your kind indulgence as I repost my modding question one last time here before I go bug the Paradox forums: Is there a way to mod the view distance of units in Vic2? I'd like to be able to zoom out all the way and still see my unit flags/counters. Not being able to do this really hamstrings my war-fighting ability in large theaters. I tried modding counter_distance in settings.txt, and all that does is make it so that I can see province names/unit sprites at max zoom. I'd like to see unit flags/counters at max zoom, if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:23
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I want to play Vicky 2 again. Has a new mod risen to take PDMs crown?
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Jun 20, 2014 21:57
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Munin posted:Could you also update the Victoria 2 write up? It mentions HoD as upcoming. Will do! Victoria 2 with all its expansions? It is certainly improved a considerable degree from where it started, but they haven't substantially changed my opinion of it, no. Which is a shame, because Ricky was my favorite Paradox game by far.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:04
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Janissary Hop posted:I want to play Vicky 2 again. Has a new mod risen to take PDMs crown? Generally the go-to mod here is the New Nations Mod. It adds new nations, events, and decisions without all the extra bloat crap PDM has. I usually run it in conjunction with Age of Politics, which makes the politics more sensible.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:31
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Gorgo Primus posted:Will do! I'm not entirely surprised. You always were definitely one of the Ricky hardcore. In a way it is funny how differently these two games turned out in workings and feel, despite having many of the same groundings. I always got on better with 2 than Ricky.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:50
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I guess the changes to how promotion works means there's more emphasis on foreign relations (ie war) than in Ricky, because you don't have the same level of internal control. Oh, and the sphere of influence mini-game, but that's kind of a chore in my opinion. Paradox could have integrated it much more tightly into the existing relations system to make it feel less tacked on. Drink Cheerwine posted:Thanks for your kind indulgence as I repost my modding question one last time here before I go bug the Paradox forums: Sorry!
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Jun 20, 2014 22:55
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Enjoy posted:Oh, and the sphere of influence mini-game, but that's kind of a chore in my opinion. Paradox could have integrated it much more tightly into the existing relations system to make it feel less tacked on. That said, even with the exact same gameplay, things could be more user-friendly.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:11
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Victory 2 problem is that outside war and colonization in Africa, there is not much to do. Especially the political side really got the shaft. You got six different tech trees, all with its different subcategories, but only one whopping page of political reforms.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:17
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e X posted:Victory 2 problem is that outside war and colonization in Africa, there is not much to do. Especially the political side really got the shaft. You got six different tech trees, all with its different subcategories, but only one whopping page of political reforms. This is basically it. What made Victoria great was the way it merged cool historical events, comprehensible economics, meaningful industrialization, and relatively complex politics into a cohesive whole that (very broadly speaking) captured the spirit of the times [if you were a white superpower]. On the other hand V2 has a black box of nonsensical economics and a ton of [tedious] wars. Not to say Ricky didn't have a metric ton of flaws and problems with its model, interface, and more - but I had fun with Ricky whereas I get really bored every time I attempt to play V2 after I hit 1860 or so. I'm hopeful for V3 though.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:44
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e X posted:Victory 2 problem is that outside war and colonization in Africa, there is not much to do. Especially the political side really got the shaft. You got six different tech trees, all with its different subcategories, but only one whopping page of political reforms. *Actually, something that goes beyond government. Farmers getting together and setting up cooperatives were a very important part of Danish industrialization, were for example Sweden went with the more classic "captain of industry" model. (Which makes sense, given the natural resources.) A model that could capture a greater variety of ways industrialization happened would be really cool, and perhaps it might even help model things better?
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Jun 20, 2014 23:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Because really, does it make sense that taxes get slashed 50% the first day a new government gets into power, in a democratic system? See also cultural policy, where the right for Germans in France to vote depends on which party is in power and can flip flop wildly if the Germans in France are significantly more in favor of parties that have residency than the French are, despite residency meaning that they lose the right to vote. Also religious policy, where the state church can be established, removed, and then reestablished in the span of 3 elections. I'd really love V3 if it had more of a focus on the internal politics of each nation. Even if the game still has a lot of staring at charts and graphs, at least if the player has more control over the policies of their nation and maybe even having some control over the parties in their nation (stuff like banning parties, making slight changes to the ruling party's platform, etc) then the player would feel like the charts are responding to their actions a lot more than how it is in V2 where the charts react very slowly to a lot of indirect things the player does.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:23
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DrProsek posted:See also cultural policy, where the right for Germans in France to vote depends on which party is in power and can flip flop wildly if the Germans in France are significantly more in favor of parties that have residency than the French are, despite residency meaning that they lose the right to vote. Also religious policy, where the state church can be established, removed, and then reestablished in the span of 3 elections. To be honest, I've always felt that Paradox titles were too light on internal politics. Europa Universalis is the weakest in this area, but also vicky 2 and crusader kings (though of those, CK2 had the best internal politics)
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Jun 21, 2014 00:29
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DrProsek posted:See also cultural policy, where the right for Germans in France to vote depends on which party is in power and can flip flop wildly if the Germans in France are significantly more in favor of parties that have residency than the French are, despite residency meaning that they lose the right to vote. Also religious policy, where the state church can be established, removed, and then reestablished in the span of 3 elections. DrProsek posted:I'd really love V3 if it had more of a focus on the internal politics of each nation. Even if the game still has a lot of staring at charts and graphs, at least if the player has more control over the policies of their nation and maybe even having some control over the parties in their nation (stuff like banning parties, making slight changes to the ruling party's platform, etc) then the player would feel like the charts are responding to their actions a lot more than how it is in V2 where the charts react very slowly to a lot of indirect things the player does.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:03
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Really you guys should just drop HoI4 and make Vicky3. Then make Rome 2.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:39
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uPen posted:Really you guys should just drop HoI4 and make Vicky3. Then make Rome 2. The problem with that idea is that from a profit perspective, I'm pretty sure that's like saying "Instead of taking this $100 bill, you should take that $10 bill instead. Then you should flush it down the toilet."
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Jun 21, 2014 02:59
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Having parties pop up, and then you being able to ban them, would be pretty cool. -- At the cost that all your vassals will think that this is tyrannical, increasing the chance they'll join factions against you!
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Jun 21, 2014 03:31
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Speaking a hypothetical Victoria III, one thing that'd be neat would be a deeper relationship between ethnicity and politics, so nationalist movements could start within the established political process and then spin out if the Establishment decides to be a dick, or conversely have a militant nationalist movement gradually transition into the role of a peaceful minority party. On a related note, party-affiliated paramilitaries (like the Wide Awakes) would be neat.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:44
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Ofaloaf posted:Speaking a hypothetical Victoria III, one thing that'd be neat would be a deeper relationship between ethnicity and politics, so nationalist movements could start within the established political process and then spin out if the Establishment decides to be a dick, or conversely have a militant nationalist movement gradually transition into the role of a peaceful minority party. Those are both pretty good ideas
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Jun 21, 2014 04:20
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I'll disagree and say that Victoria II is my favorite Paradox game, but I'm also kind of crazy and masochistic. I also really like watching numbers go up and figuring out ways to make them go up faster, and my brain rewards my pleasure centers if the numbers raise faster than they were raising before, so I end up spending most of my time on my average V2 game tinkering with each individual factory on Planned Economy all the way through to utterly maximize my return on investment, but I know most people don't do that because they care more about the war part and expanding their borders part than the factory game. I ended up addicted to Cookie Clicker for a solid three months and it took an incredible amount of willpower to ween myself off of it. V2 works on the same part of me as that game did.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:20
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People here like the way V2 handles war? I like how they handle crises (though I wish it had way more flexibility) but my main draw is seeing what I can do politically and with economic matters.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:37
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No, war is awful in vicky2.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:40
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I think that new Vicky should inherit some war mechanics from HOI. Like airplanes being based in airfields and having missions instead of being part of ground armies.
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Jun 21, 2014 08:50
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The problem with planes is that they feel too much like other army units, but for the era it seems totally appropriate to have planes sticking to the front lines. Maybe they could give you bonus recon in adjacent provinces too. I think the last thing Vicky needs is special air raid missions that I have to set up all the time.
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Jun 21, 2014 09:04
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Patter Song posted:I ended up addicted to Cookie Clicker for a solid three months and it took an incredible amount of willpower to ween myself off of it. V2 works on the same part of me as that game did. Paradox could reskin cookie clicker with factories and immigrants and turn of the century rifles and dreadnoughts and sell it as Victoria 3 and I'd still bite.
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Jun 21, 2014 09:28
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:The problem with planes is that they feel too much like other army units, but for the era it seems totally appropriate to have planes sticking to the front lines. Maybe they could give you bonus recon in adjacent provinces too. I think the last thing Vicky needs is special air raid missions that I have to set up all the time. Your idea about adding recon to adjacent provinces isn't bad though, and I think the idea could be expanded upon. Later inventions could make it so the fog of war got pushed back one extra province by your planes, giving you a strategic advantage. Additionally, later inventions could also cut down on the dig-in value of enemy units in neighboring provinces, and the value of forts, shifting the balance away from stationary warfare. Maybe it would make sense to add a carrier unit too, with similar properties? Speaking of the navy, I hope Victoria III has its ships served by men, instead of being driven solely by the will of the country. That would fit naturally with a manpower system like people have suggested earlier in the thread.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:31
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Enjoy posted:Oh, and the sphere of influence mini-game, but that's kind of a chore in my opinion. Paradox could have integrated it much more tightly into the existing relations system to make it feel less tacked on. My perfect sphere of influence system would be built entirely on the "invest in this country" system. It'd also help with china because you could tie it not to countries but instead to states so the great powers could legitimately have their own spheres of influence within china just based on having invested in different places.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:40
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Yeah, one of the things I'd like to see for a hypothetical V3 is a much more fully realised sphere of influence system. I'd like to see a sort of tiered system, where you start at mutual assistance (eg France-Sardinia), through to operating your own exploitative sovereign enclave within the country (akin to China), all the way to dominating the entire nation (like Morocco and other African states). After you've reached the final stage, maybe you could annex the nation provided they're an unciv or small enough. With a system like this you might be able to represent events like the formation of Germany a bit more organically instead of relying on blunt triggers like "has all minors in sphere -> decision -> germany".
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Jun 21, 2014 10:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What we need is a separate zeppelin unit! Seriously though, the games does continue 18 years past WW1, so it might make sense for their being a level of autonomous planes beyond the basic reconnaissance planes. Still, that would be adding a whole new mechanic that only covers the last few years of the game, so it probably wouldn't make sense in terms of development time. Sailor POPs for building (and repairing/replenishing) ships, much like soldier POPs for armies? Also concerning Vicky, I always thought that it was somewhat too short. Now I'm not advocating extending timeline, but having more "ticks" like two ticks per day instead of one. Much like HOI having one tick per hour, and the game only covers like a decade or something.
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Jun 21, 2014 11:04
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Disco Infiva posted:Sailor POPs for building (and repairing/replenishing) ships, much like soldier POPs for armies? Disco Infiva posted:Also concerning Vicky, I always thought that it was somewhat too short. Now I'm not advocating extending timeline, but having more "ticks" like two ticks per day instead of one. Much like HOI having one tick per hour, and the game only covers like a decade or something. There is of course room to expand the timeline back 14 years, though that has its own challenges, mostly dealing with independence wars I think. (Also pops.)
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Jun 21, 2014 11:46
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Bishop Rodan posted:Generally the go-to mod here is the New Nations Mod. It adds new nations, events, and decisions without all the extra bloat crap PDM has. To get both of those mods to run at once did you create a combined mod, or just select and load both off the launcher? The combination sounds great.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:40
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Patter Song posted:I'll disagree and say that Victoria II is my favorite Paradox game, but I'm also kind of crazy and masochistic. If you enjoyed cookie clicker there is a game that is a bit more spergy and requires less involvement. It is based off an XKCD comic strip about sand castles and is aptly named sandcastle builder. We have a thread on it... http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3589011&pagenumber=1 and here is a link to the game. If you enjoy efficiency and math as much as you claim it may delight you. http://castle.chirpingmustard.com/castle.html edited to fix grammar
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Jun 21, 2014 18:19
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The one cool Vicky3 feature that probably would be a nightmare to code but awesome is a converter to hoi4 that gave everyone sensible power blocs. If Germany is democratic and teams up with the UK to beat Italy and France in WW1 the conversion should reflect that and make France the leader of the Fascists. Hell, make an hoi bookmark in 1910 and let it handle both world wars. I'd be curious to see how WW1 played out in hoi
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Jun 21, 2014 18:40
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Am I reading too much into it, or isn't Cookie Clicker meant to be a parody of games where you just increase numbers indefinitely, and arguably a satire of capitalism?
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Jun 21, 2014 18:41
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DStecks posted:Am I reading too much into it, or isn't Cookie Clicker meant to be a parody of games where you just increase numbers indefinitely, and arguably a satire of capitalism? I think the game was made to be a fun experiment on "Economy of Scale" and other such things as opposed to an outright attack on economic models.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:47
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DStecks posted:Am I reading too much into it, or isn't Cookie Clicker meant to be a parody of games where you just increase numbers indefinitely, and arguably a satire of capitalism? its a game where you click cookies this isnt complex
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Jun 21, 2014 18:52
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Maybe I should have been clearer, Cookie Clicker is a fantastically unsubtle satire of capitalism. The objective of the game is to keep making more money, so that you can make more money, with no actual end goal. The game describes the horrible things your cookie production is doing to the world in ways that have no effect on your quest for more money. This isn't SuperMechaGodzilla poo poo, it's an incredibly basic reading. I'm generally pretty poo poo at detecting symbolism, and I picked up immediately that Cookie Clicker is satire.
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Jun 21, 2014 19:06
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