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Jagchosis posted:Like in that universe we're laughing at how Obama has adopted the Onion Obama persona while drinking ourselves to death. So instead of just drinking ourselves to death? That... sounds like a mild improvement?
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Jun 21, 2014 09:38
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7thBatallion posted:
I keep hearing from random internet fuckwits that "the SPLC has JUMPED THE SHARK AND LOST ALL CREDIBILITY for naming these homophobic groups as hate groups." Watch now as those "OH TOTALLY NOT HATE GROUPS" start threatening violence and declaring jihad on the US.
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Jun 21, 2014 09:55
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Serious question. If Hillary is President and Obama is Veep, what happens if Hillary dies during her term? Can Obama legally take over as President?
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Jun 21, 2014 09:58
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Spacedad posted:I think she's trying to string about six different ideas together and connect them with xenophobia, RINO-ish party-riling, and Obama attacks, cemented with some a bloo bloo crocodile tears for children she doesn't give a poo poo about. It's like she literally took the bullet point list of topics she's supposed to repeat endlessly as recommended to her by a Republican strategist, and then failingly tried to cram them all in a meat grinder. A shill like Palin threatening to leave the GOP that's made her unbelievably rich, unless the president resigns, is hysterical. And when Obama remains in office the media will quietly bury her promise.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:03
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7thBatallion posted:Serious question. If Hillary is President and Obama is Veep, what happens if Hillary dies during her term? Can Obama legally take over as President? Twelfth Amendment plus Twenty Second would bar him being Veep.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:05
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Plus, he's black, and everyone knows that's icky and weird! Why I'd be liable to just about lose my wig if we ever actually got us a BLACK for president.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:48
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Why would future Supreme Court Justice Barack Obama agree to be VP anyway?
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Jun 21, 2014 10:51
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Jagchosis posted:Twelfth Amendment plus Twenty Second would bar him being Veep. Forgot about the 22nd. Phooey. PostNouveau posted:Why would future Supreme Court Justice Barack Obama agree to be VP anyway? To assassinate the President and get a third term? Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 10:54
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I listened to some Mark Levin, tonight. Of all the right-wing hategolems, he may be the one I dislike the most. The guy's entire show is a display of manufactured anger. Levin immediately cranks up the screaming and fury to 11, and just stays there until he goes off the air. "We're sick of [just... everything], and we're not going to take it!" You are going to take it, Mark. You're going to sit right there and "take it," because you don't have any alternatives to offer. I find it baffling that there are people tuning into this poo poo every day. I imagine Levin's listeners screaming along with him, feeling their blood pressure spike, and walking away at the end with the impression that some kind of point has been made. Big doings are just around the corner, because millions of people just like me and Mark Aren't Going to Take It, Anymore! Tonight, a man who owes his entire existence to government regulation of the electromagnetic spectrum, started his broadcast by declaring that there are many people, just like him, who do not need, and derive no benefit from, the government. Levin also took credit for popularizing the words "crony capitalism" and "statist." He was humble enough to admit that he did not invent those words, he just used his power of influence to bring them into the cultural consciousness. According to Levin, no one was using those words before he came along.
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Jun 21, 2014 12:43
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Centripetal Horse posted:I listened to some Mark Levin, tonight. Of all the right-wing hategolems, he may be the one I dislike the most. The guy's entire show is a display of manufactured anger. Levin immediately cranks up the screaming and fury to 11, and just stays there until he goes off the air. "We're sick of [just... everything], and we're not going to take it!" You are going to take it, Mark. You're going to sit right there and "take it," because you don't have any alternatives to offer. I find it baffling that there are people tuning into this poo poo every day. I imagine Levin's listeners screaming along with him, feeling their blood pressure spike, and walking away at the end with the impression that some kind of point has been made. Big doings are just around the corner, because millions of people just like me and Mark Aren't Going to Take It, Anymore! http://youtubedoubler.com/cKGq
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Jun 21, 2014 12:52
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Hazo posted:Yeah I was gonna try and parse that but my eyes started rolling back pretty fast. I think I lost her [ghost-writer] at the part where she immediately followed "get the less-fortunate out of my country" with "As a Christian..." "Do unto others as you've been told they'd do unto you if they got the chance, boy howdy!"
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Jun 21, 2014 13:04
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Slightly Toasted posted:tl;dr: NATO secretary-general claims fracking is all cool and good and Russia is behind the whole anti-fracking agenda to maintain their energy monopoly over Europe yessir It's far from unlikely though, unless you think that dirty astroturfing tricks are beyond Gazprom or other energy companies. Of course they spend millions to spread lies about alternatives to their product. Not that this makes fracking good.
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Jun 21, 2014 15:44
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:Has anyone put together any credible theories or informed speculation about what would have happened to Obama in the Hillverse? I've heard people throw SCOTUS around but I don't know if that's based on anything other than his law background. Probably what happened to her happens to him. He's a charismatic up-and-coming who probably earns a cabinet level post for playing nice after the primary. The only question is weather or not he gets it before or after his senate term ends. 7thBatallion posted:Serious question. If Hillary is President and Obama is Veep, what happens if Hillary dies during her term? Can Obama legally take over as President? Obama can no longer be elected president, he may still be eligible...
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Jun 21, 2014 16:00
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If Hillary defers the presidency post-election to her VP Obama it will definitely confuse the hell out of the right after they've continually blown Putin for the past however many months.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:16
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I'm baffled by people suggesting Hillary would have been as ineffectual as Obama. She'd been networking on the hill and building relationships for her entire career. She has a stock of favors owed both to herself and her husband to leverage. She knows where lots of skeletons are buried so she's got sticks as well as carrots. Specifically vis-a-vi the senate, her time there would have hugely reduced the spite factor. Remember, Obama isn't just black, he was a newbie senator who spent his short time in the senate being to cool for school. That's worse than being a Washington outsider like a governor or something because it means he shows up, ignores traditions and protocols, then leapfrogs over the lifers who play the game by the rules to the ultimate prize. So all the people who he ticked off - or whose advice he ignored when they explained How We Do Things Here - in the senate now have to call him sir and stand when he enters the room. He broke all the rules and shot to the top office in the land in two hops and there would've been plenty of professional jealousy aimed at him even if he were a pudgy old white guy. With Hillary misogyny would absolutely have been used for base riling ( the bible says women should be silent and may not rule over men blah blah blah ) but the bulk of the GOP senate would just be pushers of that narrative not users because they know her personally and have a history of working with her. Shenanigans like blocking every appointment to anything they can block would not have happened because they would just be playing the game of politics against her. It wouldn't have been personal on the level it was with Obama. And she'd have had Pelosi plus a majority in the House. Stuff would absolutely have gotten done and done much more smoothly. Obama could have done the same thing if he'd stayed in the senate longer and worked it with more focus. It would no more have ended racism in the senate than Clinton's work ended misogyny. But it would have taken a huge amount of the edge off. And it's not unreasonable to ask. Going from freshman senator to president is not normal. Warren isn't ready for a presidential run for the same reasons Obama wasn't. She needs time to come into her full potential.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:39
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quote:Shenanigans like blocking every appointment to anything they can block would not have happened because they would just be playing the game of politics against her. It wouldn't have been personal on the level it was with Obama. This is absurd. It's like you missed the 90s.
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Jun 21, 2014 19:48
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Guilty Spork posted:Grover Norquist apparently decided to get into a Twitter slapfight with Conan O'Brien Why do right wing pundit keep getting in fights with comedians? They couldn't pick a worse person to get in a twitter slapfest with, but they just can't resist. edit TheDeadlyShoe posted:This is absurd. It's like you missed the 90s. The nineties ended like fifteen years ago. Half of SA probably doesn't remember the 90's. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 20:49
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McAlister posted:I'm baffled by people suggesting Hillary would have been as ineffectual as Obama. She'd been networking on the hill and building relationships for her entire career. She has a stock of favors owed both to herself and her husband to leverage. She knows where lots of skeletons are buried so she's got sticks as well as carrots. While this may be true for the two years the Democrats held both houses of Congress there's no reason to think that the Tea Party wave wouldn't have happened (the main issue was healthcare, it doesn't matter if it's "the black man" or "the Democrat woman"). In addition, if the Tea Partiers didn't hate Hillary with the same vehemency as they did Obama they would be more open to compromise and we'd get a bunch of bullshit Grand Bargains out of it (Clintons aren't necessarily opposed to those).
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Jun 21, 2014 21:02
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computer parts posted:the two years the Democrats held both houses of Congress I'd post a link but I don't trust myself to pick the right one. I'd be grateful if someone more familiar with the details of this old gem would debunk it so I don't gently caress it up. You'll find a ton of contradictory information here, but I'm not savvy enough to suss out the most accurate interpretation. Here's one: quote:The Myth of the Democratic Super Majority It's full of typos, but I think it's factually, technically accurate. I welcome any clarification. Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 21:56
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Sir Tonk posted:The nineties ended like fifteen years ago. Half of SA probably doesn't remember the 90's. To true. I remember very little of how bad the GOP got in the 90s aside from the govt shutdowns, which as a child don't seem like a big deal. I do remember my father telling me about how the Washington Times was run by a cult leader and how conservatives were constantly breaking rules (privacy, secrecy, etc) to give information to the Times in hopes of damaging Clinton. Kind of like an entire decade of Scooter Libby's every few weeks, but since none of the information risked the life of an American spy overseas it wasn't newsworthy.
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Jun 22, 2014 03:02
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The best part of the 90s was when the GOP accused Clinton of manufacturing going after some nobody named bin Laden to distract from the obviously more important Lewinsky scandal. Some things never change.
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Jun 22, 2014 04:24
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:The best part of the 90s was when the GOP accused Clinton of manufacturing going after some nobody named bin Laden to distract from the obviously more important Lewinsky scandal. Some things never change. Do you have a citation for this? I'd love to see it in print.
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Jun 22, 2014 05:05
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:The best part of the 90s was when the GOP accused Clinton of manufacturing going after some nobody named bin Laden to distract from the obviously more important Lewinsky scandal. Some things never change. I remember that too. Keep in mind, they were saying that after the bombing of the USS Cole iirc. These days Republicans would have lost their loving minds if a military ship got bombed. But back then it was a distraction from impeaching the president over a BJ
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Jun 22, 2014 05:28
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platedlizard posted:I remember that too. Keep in mind, they were saying that after the bombing of the USS Cole iirc. These days Republicans would have lost their loving minds if a military ship got bombed. But back then it was a distraction from impeaching the president over a BJ To be fair the Clinton administration didn't give much of a poo poo about the Cole bombing either.
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Jun 22, 2014 05:34
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Do you have a citation for this? I'd love to see it in print. This comes from the Accuracy In Media group, i.e. the right-wing Media Matters: http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/1999/04/02.htm. A Jake Tapper postmortem suggests that the GOP itself actually supported Clinton in this, but that the mainstream press, egged on by WND et al, were the ones flogging this story (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2006/09/the_truth_about/), which is arguably even worse than other politicians doing it.
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Jun 22, 2014 05:57
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Dr. Faustus posted:Hate to break it to you, but that's not what actually happened. If it were, we *may* have actually gotten some of the And if Clinton had been president she would have had a reasonable chance of getting a few republicans to vote for culture. She has a history of successful bipartisan initiatives. Hell, she got (edit Grahm) to work with her on a health care initiative. They wouldn't have to vote for her bills, so they could go on record opposing them. Just for cloture. This is because all the acrimony of the 90's was political theater. Not personally held vendettas. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/30/nyregion/30hillary.html?pagewanted=print&_ Clinton has personally worked with a wide variety of republicans on legislation they care about. She extended olive branches to all the folks who lead the 90's witch hunts and helped them out with thing they wanted/needed when she got to the senate. She was classy and forgiving when they needed her help. When Katrina ravaged Mississippi and Trent Lott needed aid for his state Hillary lead the charge to give it to him. When Lindsy graham invited a bunch of senators to a press conference he was holding about improving health benefits for the national guard Hillary was the only senator who showed up. She became his co sponsor for that legislation and they teamed up on it. That link has republicans talking about her "core of inner strength" and how "we complemented each other" and "chose not to let history define us." Doing what was done to Obama was easy because Obama was an outsider who didn't cultivate relationships in the senate. It would have been vastly harder to do it to Hillary because she had those working relationships.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:57
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Sir Tonk posted:Why do right wing pundit keep getting in fights with comedians? They couldn't pick a worse person to get in a twitter slapfest with, but they just can't resist. They lack a sense of humor so anything related to comedy confuses and scares them so they react with anger
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Jun 22, 2014 06:58
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platedlizard posted:I remember that too. Keep in mind, they were saying that after the bombing of the USS Cole iirc. The Cole was attacked 2 years later. The wag the dog stuff was about sending cruise missiles in response to US embassies in Africa being bombed. Darkman Fanpage posted:To be fair the Clinton administration didn't give much of a poo poo about the Cole bombing either. Not necessarily so. The Clinton administration ended before the CIA really had its act together about responsibility for the Cole attack.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:00
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computer parts posted:While this may be true for the two years the Democrats held both houses of Congress there's no reason to think that the Tea Party wave wouldn't have happened (the main issue was healthcare, it doesn't matter if it's "the black man" or "the Democrat woman"). In addition, if the Tea Partiers didn't hate Hillary with the same vehemency as they did Obama they would be more open to compromise and we'd get a bunch of bullshit Grand Bargains out of it (Clintons aren't necessarily opposed to those). I'm sure the tea party wave would have happened just with racism subbed for misogyny as their glue. Once they take the house everything grinds to a halt and Clinton is very similar to Obama. That's still two years to get a better ACA than we got. Pelosi passed a lot of awesome stuff like a public option that died in the senate because Obama faced absolutely lockstep opposition there. Getting even one across the aisle cloture vote is impossible for him because he has no leverage with which to extract it. Clinton has lots of leverage. In addition to ground already covered in prior posts there is also the fact that while there are no black GOP senators there are a few female GOP senators from fairly moderate places. Women who personally would not be thrilled with plan "let's filibuster everything she does cause she's a woman " and who come from states where voting for health care I popular. So that's yet another way Clinton could have forged a working supermajority for cloture votes in the senate. Edit: bah phone posting ate my post then mangled it. McAlister fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 07:36
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McAlister posted:That's still two years to get a better ACA than we got. Just tell me what I am missing. Is this in dispute? quote:Further, these Super Majorities count Joe Lieberman as a Democrat even though he was by this time an Independent. Even though he was Liberal on some legislation, he was very conservative on other issues and opposed many of the key pieces of legislation the Democrats and Obama wanted to pass. For example, he was adamantly opposed to “Single Payer” health care and vowed to support a Republican Filibuster if it ever came to the floor.
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Jun 22, 2014 08:18
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Dr. Faustus posted:I'm sorry, but does the fact that the dems never had a filibuster-proof majority for more than 11 then 13 days just not register or am I missing something? Is anybody out there? What you're missing is that post you're looking at is discussing the alternate universe where Hillary became president in 2008 instead of Obama, which presumably might have altered the disposition of the non-junior Republicans enough to make that lack of a Democratic majority matter less.
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Jun 22, 2014 08:43
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McAlister posted:"let's filibuster everything she does cause she's a And McConnell would have still made news by saying that their primary goal is to make sure Hillary is a one term President. The Tea Party would have still been riled up over "Hillary Care, part 2". Her palling around with Senators for a few more years than Obama did would have meant gently caress all when it came time to push the Republican party line and getting the right-wing base motivated.
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Jun 22, 2014 09:00
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Thanks for the clarification.
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Jun 22, 2014 09:07
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This Clinton alt-history stuff seems extremely optimistic. Obama had large numbers of ex-Clinton staffers working for him, and it was them who largely shaped his strategy in approaching the ACA. Unless Hillary knew where some bodies were buried, I'm not seeing what unique insights she would have had.
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Jun 22, 2014 11:48
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I'd say the way the Obama presidency coincided with the rise of social media and the polarisation of news media had a lot more to do with the rise of the tea party than how many senatorial allies Hillary or Obama had.
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Jun 22, 2014 11:54
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Dr. Faustus posted:I'm sorry, but does the fact that the dems never had a filibuster-proof majority for more than 11 then 13 days just not register or am I missing something? Is anybody out there? The two posts that went over why Hillary had leverage to get more cloture votes than Obama did and thus put one together. Try addressing the points raised instead of repeating yourself.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:18
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:And McConnell would have still made news by saying that their primary goal is to make sure Hillary is a one term President. The Tea Party would have still been riled up over "Hillary Care, part 2". Her palling around with Senators for a few more years than Obama did would have meant gently caress all when it came time to push the Republican party line and getting the right-wing base motivated. You are listing things that would piss me off hugely if my name were Olympia Snowe and would not be a threat to my re-electability because if that were my name I'd be retiring in 2013 anyway. And if my name were Susan Collins it would also tick me off and I would have the option of running as an independent or a dem if I did something about it. Kay Bailey - being from Texas instead of Maine - probably wouldn't flip. Lisa Murkowski - very likely to be pissed off by that poo poo, and known to be willing/able to tell the GOP to go gently caress itself then win as a write in if they primary her. Heck, she's on record voting against the Hyde amendment skimming her voting record on votesmart.org As was noted in the effort post about no supermajority, Barak was just a vote from cloture for awhile. 1 vote could have shut those shenanigans down before they got traction. I just listed three shots at that vote that Barak didn't have but Clinton did.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:38
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Thinking that Hillary would have had it any easier than Obama is nonsense. She is loathed among the GOP, and her liasons across the aisle would jyst shrug and vote with the party instead of voting for her projects and hanging out to dry. Besides, unlike a newcomer like Obama, Hillary has a political past to exploit. They had to turn "Obama is a muslim foreigner" into a thing to smear him with. Hillary would have been pelted 24/7 with Whitewater, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the exhumed corpse of Vince Foster. If you think the NRA and its cronies are freaking out over Obama grabbing their guns, think of what they'd say with a person whose last name is Clinton on the White House. Wasn't there some preacher who made a documentary about the Clintons and their murder sprees that sold a million copies? I think it was called The Clinton Chronicles.
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Jun 22, 2014 19:04
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I think Hillary would have been a better president than Obama but anyone who thinks the GOP would have gone any less apeshit is delusional
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Jun 22, 2014 19:42
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The right will will go exactly as crazy over Hillary as they did Obama, no more no less, but that doesn't mean it won't be jarring to watch the cognitive dissonance as they shift from dog whistle racism to open misogyny or that there isn't a poo poo-tonne of hilarious b-roll of Republicans praising both the Clintons over the last two general election cycles as they attempted to seduce Hillary primary supporters.
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Jun 22, 2014 19:44
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