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CharlestheHammer posted:I thought it was silly because the world they live in really didn't match that, and wolverine is the last character who should be the delusional idealist. Wolverine has always been the "don't kill, don't live your life by violence, because I know how it hurts your soul" kind of moralizer in the Xmen. It makes perfect sense that he'd be against militarizing the school.
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Jun 21, 2014 23:48
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Yeah he's the ninja who believes in martial arts as self defense. He just has a temper. Scott grew up in an orphanage and had a deadbeat space pirate dad so it makes sense that he'd have little value for a childhood.
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Jun 21, 2014 23:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:Though why they both didn't want to the school to just be Xavier's mix of the two is beyond me. Because if they did it wouldn't've been a Schism, duh. Editorial-driven story beats, everyone! I think this happened to be a pretty good one, though, myself.
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Jun 22, 2014 00:15
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I think it feels totally natural. I wouldn't chalk it up as out of character editorial mandates at all.
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Jun 22, 2014 00:18
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twistedmentat posted:Wolverine has always been the "don't kill, don't live your life by violence, because I know how it hurts your soul" kind of moralizer in the Xmen. It makes perfect sense that he'd be against militarizing the school. Eh, he has never had an issue with the X-men fighting, killing sure, but that was always a distinct thing. Like I said, Logan was never a fan of making other people killers, but he was never this delusional idealist. In fact he was way, way more cynical. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 00:38
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Cyclops: There need to be more mes running around. Wolverine: The world doesn't need more people like me running around.
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Jun 22, 2014 00:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Eh, he has never had an issue with the X-men fighting, killing sure, but that was always a distinct thing. Like I said, Logan was never a fan of making other people killers, but he was never this delusional idealist. In fact he was way, way more cynical. It's not fighting he's against, it's indoctrinating children to be warriors. Wolverine chooses to fight and he thinks people should have the proper experience and mental faculties to make the same decision. Being a mutant doesn't automatically make you an X-Man.
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Jun 22, 2014 00:58
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Unmature posted:It's not fighting he's against, it's indoctrinating children to be warriors.
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Jun 22, 2014 01:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:You can't have one without the other. What does that mean? People don't join the navy at 10.
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Jun 22, 2014 01:29
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Yea, Scott has the kids training to be soldiers day one, while Logan is giving them a chance to be more. They learn to control their powers, and how to use them to defend themselves, but as evidenced by the schools course offerings.
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Jun 22, 2014 02:08
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And Wolverine only abandoned his students in the Savage Land that one time.
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Jun 22, 2014 02:34
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Unmature posted:What does that mean? People don't join the navy at 10. That has nothing to do with what he said?
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Jun 22, 2014 02:47
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SirDan3k posted:Wolverine: The world doesn't need more people like me running around. This is exactly it. Wolverine knows it's too late for him, but he wants better for others. It's a major theme for the dude, why he keeps collecting underage sidekicks, one of his major motivations for being a superhero.
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Jun 22, 2014 03:28
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The schism worked because both sides in the context of the X-Men storylines are defensible. If it was a one-sided issue it would be a lovely plot point. What bothers me is that when Bendis took over Uncanny he spends twenty issues of Scott's X-Men versus SHIELD in a way that is basically proves he's right, that humans do want to kill them and they need to fight back and then the big twist is that this is all just mutant on mutant problems which kinda justifies the use of sentinels in the first place. Logan isn't delusional, he knows these kids have a dangerous road ahead, and they're being prepared for it, but if they're on the run with a wanted terrorist (is that what they're calling Cyclops?) then all they can ever be is X-Men. At least if they graduate from the school they can theoretically be an X-Man AND a theoretically productive member of society.
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Jun 22, 2014 03:43
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Unmature posted:This thread needs some positivity. Schism sucked and the status quo it brought is one of the worst things to ever happen to the X-Men.
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Jun 22, 2014 04:04
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Suben posted:Schism sucked and the status quo it brought is one of the worst things to ever happen to the X-Men. You must be so much fun to be around.
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Jun 22, 2014 04:13
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DynamicSloth posted:And Wolverine only abandoned his students in the Savage Land that one time. To be fair, he was going to have them be secretly monitored so they were never in danger the whole time. How was he supposed to know his rear end in a top hat brother would time travel into the exercise and attack him and gently caress the whole thing up? (Answer: he should've known because he is Wolverine and terrible things like that happen to him all the time)
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Jun 22, 2014 04:26
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Unmature posted:You must be so much fun to be around. I don't get why people post like that, but good stuff, I liked the story too and some of the stuff it led to. It had some exciting fresh ideas and scenarios.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:18
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I wouldn't say that Schism itself sucked, but I feel like it overstayed its welcome a long time ago. Nothing really seems to change about the situation; it's just the same tired arguments being lobbed over and over again, with some people getting traded between teams every year or so to give the illusion that things have progressed in some way. It feels like X-Men has become focused on petty team infighting for years now, and I really hate that. They should have used AvX to end Schism and move onto something new and interesting.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:31
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Schism is never going away. Yes it just the X-Men infighting but that's all they have left their a-list villain is a hero now and nobody gives a crap about the rest of their rouges gallery. To cross the aisle, the Joker is wearing spandex and throwing batarangs and all that's left is the Mad Hatter.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:12
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Unmature posted:This thread needs some positivity. Yeah I really liked Schism, and the plan going forward was solid. I wish it had been given more time to breathe.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:28
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twistedmentat posted:Wolverine has always been the "don't kill, don't live your life by violence, because I know how it hurts your soul" kind of moralizer in the Xmen. It makes perfect sense that he'd be against militarizing the school. Wolverine ran a black ops squad that employed a couple of teenagers including his surrogate daughter/sister said squad later murdered a child. After the whole schism thing he also orchestrated the Avengers Vs. X-men conflict so he could attempt to murder another innocent teenager. Schism is okay but righteously indignant Wolverine is terrible, I'd have bought the schism a lot more if Storm or anyone with a little credibility had been the moral centre. DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 08:09
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Don't forget, in Marvel time, Logan's killed 6 - 7 of his own kids in the last year or so. He knew about Daken when he killed him of course (though that just made it much harder going in), the others he didn't know were his children until after he took them out. That, plus all of the stuff with X-Force and Evan has really had an effect on him. Oh, and dying, going to hell, having his body possessed, coming back to life, and the thousand other traumas of the last couple years. It's tough getting torn apart in 8 books a month...
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Jun 22, 2014 11:51
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Unmature posted:You must be so much fun to be around. Schism and its status quo is just another extension of the same stupid "heroes vs. heroes; heroes are nothing but bickering rear end in a top hat babies" garbage that's been running through Marvel in the close to 10 years since Civil War only magnified because the characters also tend to act even dumber which makes for terrible reading. I mean like it if you want but I'm really sick of that stuff overall at this point and its led to some of my absolute least favorite X-Men stories (BotA, AvX, basically the entirety of Bendis' and Aaron's X-Men writing).
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Jun 22, 2014 20:30
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Heroes fighting heroes goes back a hell of a lot longer than 10 years and it is one of the better classic tropes, because fighting moustache twirling villains gets real old real quick, the problem with Civil war and Schism though is that many writers have a lot of difficulty allowing moral ambiguity where both sides have a point to persist in their funny books and we get stupid poo poo like fascist Tony Stark demanding teenagers be drafted into a paramilitary units and Scott Summers saying he no longer believes in Xavier's dream of coexistence.
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Jun 22, 2014 20:52
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I know I'm generalizing, and I can't really blame people for being dismayed with Bendis, but sometimes I get the feeling that the only thing that could please some of you guys is if every comic reverted back to being perpetually stuck in the silver age.
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Jun 22, 2014 21:58
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Yeah I wish that instead of Bendis X-Men comics, we got to read about the X-Men from the Silver Age.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:01
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DynamicSloth posted:Heroes fighting heroes goes back a hell of a lot longer than 10 years and it is one of the better classic tropes, because fighting moustache twirling villains gets real old real quick, the problem with Civil war and Schism though is that many writers have a lot of difficulty allowing moral ambiguity where both sides have a point to persist in their funny books and we get stupid poo poo like fascist Tony Stark demanding teenagers be drafted into a paramilitary units and Scott Summers saying he no longer believes in Xavier's dream of coexistence. Heroes Vs heroes as some constant thing is basically ten years old. The old way almost always involved a wacky misunderstanding of some sort. Which usually was resolved in that issue.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:26
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Hakkesshu posted:I know I'm generalizing, and I can't really blame people for being dismayed with Bendis, but sometimes I get the feeling that the only thing that could please some of you guys is if every comic reverted back to being perpetually stuck in the silver age. I don't really feel like wanting a little meaningful progression from an author who actually cares about what he's writing is asking for too much.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:41
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Hakkesshu posted:I know I'm generalizing, and I can't really blame people for being dismayed with Bendis, but sometimes I get the feeling that the only thing that could please some of you guys is if every comic reverted back to being perpetually stuck in the silver age. Except it is also obvious he is going to undo it.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:Heroes Vs heroes as some constant thing is basically ten years old. The old way almost always involved a wacky misunderstanding of some sort. Which usually was resolved in that issue. That didn't make it any less constant, they'd just end up in another wacky misunderstanding next issue, the difficulty then as now is coming up with a compelling reason for the heroes to throw down.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:51
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Hakkesshu posted:I know I'm generalizing, and I can't really blame people for being dismayed with Bendis, but sometimes I get the feeling that the only thing that could please some of you guys is if every comic reverted back to being perpetually stuck in the silver age. My favorite X-Men period is the Morrison era. They were both trying out different concepts with books like X-Statix (pop culture satire), District X (detective drama), Exiles (an ongoing What If? comic with a continuous cast), New Mutants/Academy X (high school soap opera), New X-Men (meta commentary on the nature of the X-Men as a franchise), etc. Plus the minority metaphor got pulled into the modern day and as a result it felt like things were actually advancing both conceptually for the franchise and for mutants in-story. Was it perfect or was all of it good? Of course not, there was plenty of dumb poo poo (Austen's run, NYX, Weapon X), iffy story arcs or whatever but I appreciated trying new things. And you could kind of see it as something of a more optimistic time that showed the potential for a better future long down the road for mutants even if things were still rough in the immediate present. As much as I hated AvX the ending gave me hope that maybe we could go back a little bit to that since now you have lots of new mutants and mutants are a thing again. But nope, it just added a couple of fairly bad new characters and things have been trudging along the same way they have for the last few years.
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Jun 22, 2014 22:57
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DynamicSloth posted:That didn't make it any less constant, they'd just end up in another wacky misunderstanding next issue, the difficulty then as now is coming up with a compelling reason for the heroes to throw down. That makes it much less constant, and is a fundamentally different thing.
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Jun 22, 2014 23:00
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The recent stuff has me more interested in the X-Men than I ever have been. For years and years I'd jump on to a book and within a few months get bored and drop it. But I'm ravenously devouring the latest X-Men stuff and loving almost all of it. I haven't tried the new Uncanny yet, but I loved AVX, ANX, WATX, X-Men and all the Schism stuff. And I think it's the best status quo in years. And Bendis's stuff has been some of the best. Also, if I didn't like it I'd stop reading it because I'm a loving sane person. Unmature fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jun 23, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 23:22
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Unmature posted:The recent stuff has me more interested in the X-Men than I ever have been. For years and years I'd jump on to a book and within a few months get bored and drop it. But I'm ravenously devouring the latest X-Men stuff and loving almost all of it. I haven't tried the new Uncanny yet, but I loved AVX, ANX, WATX, X-Men and all the Schism stuff. And I think it's the best status quo in years. And Bendis's stuff has been some of the best. Eh, if you loved AvX I withdraw my earlier support for your taste.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:19
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Anyone who didn't like the first few issues of X-Force should definitely stick around for this week's issue, holy poo poo. This book started out rocky, but it feels like Spurrier has finally gotten back into that creative zone he was in for X-Men Legacy.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:30
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I didn't get to post about it and I guess it's late now but that Dark Beast reveal suuuuccckkkkkeeedddddd!!! I like Dark Beast a lot, too. The rest of the issue was okay but WOW.
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Jun 26, 2014 03:38
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My problem with the current lot is that it's too much Bendis in too many books and he's succumbing to his decompression schtick a lot. I don't care about the Original 5 because they're the most boring generation of X-Men. I don't care about Cyclops new mutants because nothing's been done with Generation Hope or New X-Men and the new characters have boring designs and unremarkable characterization. I haven't been able to keep up with the books as much lately, but when I was, I just skipped Bendis stuff, and I say this as a fan of his Avengers stuff until near the end. In terms of what era I'd like to see replicated more, I wish there was a surreal book like Sienkiewicz's art run on New Mutants. And I really enjoyed the Asgard stuff. I [am[/i] happy the books are returning to school concepts instead of dumb survivalist rehashing, but I wish the older characters would be revisited and developed more instead of nonstop issues about Quentin Quire or a bunch of future cannon fodder. It's not the worst era, but I wish Bendis didn't have such high control of the franchise's direction.
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Jun 26, 2014 03:48
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So why doesn't Hope get the clone-headband-driven body too? Although the reveal was good at the end.
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Jun 26, 2014 03:53
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I'd been really enjoying the direction Uncanny Avengers went in, and I guess it's too bad it couldn't last because I thought this week's issue was poo poo poo poo assy bollox (but Deadly Class was pretty great so whatever). It's not even the first time a problem was solved by "give Rogue EVERY POWER", but I guess it's the first time that strategy was used in conjunction with time travel? Anyway it just goes to show there is no good way to end a time travel story. X-Force was fuckin' brill. Glad we didn't have to wait til issue 20 to be told what the Incident was, and I liked the twist(s). Spurrier kicks rear end when he's not writing the wackier characters as caricatures of themselves. Except Nemesis. He can be crazy as all getout because I read him as Krieger from Archer, so I'm just waiting for him to say "jazz hands!"
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Jun 26, 2014 06:16
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