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HapiMerchant posted:IIRC, One of the reasons given (by gaider or laidlaw, one of the two, can't recall) for why the Qunari would be bad to side with was "because Hawke would have been forced into a meidocre role and never seen from again" He's already the voiced protagonist of a BioWare RPG, how could he get more mediocre?
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Jun 22, 2014 04:04
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Lotish posted:Alright, so I'm wanting to try a complete gently caress up run of Awakening now, but unlike Origins I haven't even beaten it once, let alone multiple times. In short, what do I have to do get the most people killed and either cheese off or abandon the most companions? I just turned Anders over to the Templars, and I know that Nathaniel is in the dungeons. I can hang Nathaniel, I think? Haven't double checked. Is Oghren disposable? You can execute Velanna as well, IIRC. On Oghren and the other companions you mentioned, none of them are killable unless you leave them to defend an undefended and incomplete Keep, I think -- but you can just not choose to recruit them. But I'm not sure the game will let you do either of these things, given that you'll be adventuring with a party of one. DA2 has a whole bunch of systems in place that mean you can only ever complete the game with a party of at least three. Companions will just stand down from conflict instead of sticking to their guns, and Varric (and Aveline?) will never die no matter what (though she can just gently caress off). Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 05:11
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HapiMerchant posted:IIRC, One of the reasons given (by gaider or laidlaw, one of the two, can't recall) for why the Qunari would be bad to side with was "because Hawke would have been forced into a meidocre role and never seen from again" Since the Qunari are supposed to be the ultimate organizers then it's possible, and even likely, that the leadership would decide that someone as dangerous and effective as Hawke should be put to use in a different role, regardless of their mage status or not. Qunari society works on the basis of promotion for heaven's sake, Sten is promoted to Arishok because he was best suite to the role. They wouldn't leave someone like that in a "mediocre role." They put their resources to good use. What the gently caress, Bioware writers. 
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Jun 22, 2014 05:37
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HIJK posted:Since the Qunari are supposed to be the ultimate organizers then it's possible, and even likely, that the leadership would decide that someone as dangerous and effective as Hawke should be put to use in a different role, regardless of their mage status or not. Qunari society works on the basis of promotion for heaven's sake, Sten is promoted to Arishok because he was best suite to the role. They wouldn't leave someone like that in a "mediocre role." They put their resources to good use. To be fair, the Qunari take an exceedingly dim view of mages. I can see mage hawke being given the full Saarebas treatment, and at best simply being "let loose" somewhere far away from actual Qunari. There's absolutely no reason to believe a non-mage hawke would not be welcomed with open arms by the Qunari and given a prominent role in either the Ben-Hassrath or the Antaam depending on gender. The devs simply want to push their "militant islamic borg" stance and keep failing to show us how evil and non-relatable they're supposed to be. Hell, even if you think the Qunari are bad and wrong, It's been pointed out most players probably looked at Kirkwall and said "anything has to be better then this shithole, go ahead and burn it just gently caress off afterwards"
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Jun 22, 2014 05:57
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When will they wise up and add Mabari to the list of playable races?
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Jun 22, 2014 06:06
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Nihilarian posted:When will they wise up and add Mabari to the list of playable races? There was a mixup in the diplomatic paperwork and the Inquisitor's mascot is now in charge. I would buy this DLC.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:19
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HapiMerchant posted:To be fair, the Qunari take an exceedingly dim view of mages. I can see mage hawke being given the full Saarebas treatment, and at best simply being "let loose" somewhere far away from actual Qunari. Maybe the priests who decide who gets which role say that non-Hawke is best suited as a farmer. Doesn't matter how well Hawke is with a sword, Qun says you are a farmer so you have to be one forever. I guess that's what they meant by being forced into a mediocre role. I guess that's a failure of the Qun, you might not like the role you are given but you can't do anything about it. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 06:22
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SgtSteel91 posted:Maybe the priests who decide who gets which role say that non-Hawke is best suited as a farmer. Doesn't matter how well Hawke is with a sword, Qun says you are a farmer so you have to be one forever. I guess that's what they meant by being forced into a mediocre role. well aren't all converts evaluated? like, a convert who knew a poo poo ton about farming but didn't know anything about fighting wouldn't be put in the army. It's all about waht you're good at.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:29
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SgtSteel91 posted:Maybe the priests who decide who gets which role say that non-Hawke is best suited as a farmer. Doesn't matter how well Hawke is with a sword, Qun says you are a farmer so you have to be one forever. I guess that's what they meant by being forced into a mediocre role. Probably not. The priest do that with native Qunari based on some labyrinthine geneaological record they keep, because the priests pretty much run an extensive eugenics program on the whole Qunari nation. Non-natives would be evaluated based on pre-existing skills since they don't have said records for them.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:33
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Maybe Hawke doesn't want to be a soldier all his life? He uses a sword and fights because being a mercenary is the best way to make money? That kind of Hawke would oppose the Qun.
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Jun 22, 2014 06:35
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SgtSteel91 posted:Maybe the priests who decide who gets which role say that non-Hawke is best suited as a farmer. Doesn't matter how well Hawke is with a sword, Qun says you are a farmer so you have to be one forever. I guess that's what they meant by being forced into a mediocre role. Is there a better explanation of how this works? (Much though I stand by nerds pontificating on the internet as my source of truth). I continue to love reading about the Dragon Age universe, but it's been a while and I think a lot of this has slipped out. I blame the lack of intensely plan-y combat in DA2.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:03
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I bet that was a statement from Gaider. He seems to have stupid, lovely opinions every time the Qunari are brought up. What's weird is some of the arguements they throw up for why the Qunari are bad. They're conformist religious zealots? Every society we've seen shits on anyone whose foreign or out of place, and the Chantry has multiple crusades to its name. They take away freedom? Every other society we've seen is feudal as gently caress. Elves are constantly shat on. The only real mark against them is the brutal way they treat their mages (unless you're Captain Oblivious in which case it's super fun time bonus points  ).Like, I wouldn't want to submit to the Qun or anything, but if I had to choose that or living in Orlais, I'd pick the Qun every drat time. At least then the rear end in a top hat that controls my life probably earned it.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:29
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Mages will count themselves lucky to still be alive when I am Inquisitor Or, well, they would if I didn't plan on killing them all anyway.
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Jun 22, 2014 07:38
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Foolie posted:Is there a better explanation of how this works? (Much though I stand by nerds pontificating on the internet as my source of truth). I continue to love reading about the Dragon Age universe, but it's been a while and I think a lot of this has slipped out. I blame the lack of intensely plan-y combat in DA2. When you join the Qunari (aka, you become what's known as viddathari), you're sent to Par Vollen/Qunandar and evaluated. What are you best at? That's the role you're given in the Qun. You're there forever, but you can advance upwards in the meritocracy
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Jun 22, 2014 07:40
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Hawke (not a Mage) decides to kill Isabela and sail off into the sunset with the Arishok. DA2 ends a chapter early and is better off for it. Meredith, Orsino and Anders all die in a fire and the conflict ends with more dead Kirkwallers and less stupid bullshit. Hawke eventually appears in DAI as Sten's second in command. Perhaps being brothers-in-arms with the Warden. Much better than what we got.
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Jun 22, 2014 10:39
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Man this thread just cannot stop producing short-form fanfiction can it
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Jun 22, 2014 10:47
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SgtSteel91 posted:Maybe Hawke doesn't want to be a soldier all his life? He uses a sword and fights because being a mercenary is the best way to make money? That kind of Hawke would oppose the Qun. Or, in general, any kind of Hawke that doesn't like being told what to do (which is one of the most common traits of a fantasy protagonist). In these games Bioware is very much doing the thing where you ignore the fact that your setting is meant to be medieval and write the characters and the world with the basic cultural values and assumptions of a real-life modern-day person, and in general modern westerners look down on forcing people into metaphorical boxes, dictating someone's place in the world solely based on their birth, and anything that could be described as an "extensive eugenics program," which is what the Qunari are all about.
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Jun 22, 2014 10:56
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Alouicious posted:Man this thread just cannot stop producing short-form fanfiction can it Still better then Bioware's actual writing.
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Jun 22, 2014 11:02
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paragon1 posted:I bet that was a statement from Gaider. He seems to have stupid, lovely opinions every time the Qunari are brought up. What's weird is some of the arguements they throw up for why the Qunari are bad. As bad as the qunari get, most of the cultures in the setting allow worse things to happen. Especially Kirkwall the Land of the Lunatic, Orlais Backstabbing Central, and Tevinter whose people seem to go out of their way to one-up each other in atrocities. Now the qunari are creepy as hell by any modern standard, but by Thedas standards they are just alien. If not for their insistence on conquest, they'd actually be one of the best cultures around. They shine by comparison. If they wanted us to see them as just pure villains, they wouldn't have have them contrast with a hellhole like Kirkwall where everyone goes out of their way to provoke conflict until they snap. Qunari vs Upstanding Civilization places the qunari as the villains. Qunari vs. Thedas is much more of a toss-up. Qunari vs Kirkwall has me leaning towards the guys with the horns over the assholes ready to gut you as soon as to look at you because the former at least has discipline and patience. If they want more flaws, just examine the issues with the Qun: how limited everyone is, how it suppresses independent thought, how belligerent it encourages its adherents to be, the incredible amount of organization it'd take to work (I don't care how disciplined you are, you can't keep track that much paperwork without some major mistakes), how it completely falls apart without full unity, and sheer brutality. It'd still make them slightly better than most of Thedas' villains, but still clearly in the wrong. Better yet, how about actually improving at least some of Thedas' organizations so they aren't all completely infested with incompetence and corruption. Opposing Farce posted:Or, in general, any kind of Hawke that doesn't like being told what to do (which is one of the most common traits of a fantasy protagonist). In these games Bioware is very much doing the thing where you ignore the fact that your setting is meant to be medieval and write the characters and the world with the basic cultural values and assumptions of a real-life modern-day person, and in general modern westerners look down on forcing people into metaphorical boxes, dictating someone's place in the world solely based on their birth, and anything that could be described as an "extensive eugenics program," which is what the Qunari are all about. Which is a complete lie because Hawke seems to love nothing more than being told what to do. S/He never does anything important until someone tells him/her to do it.
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Jun 22, 2014 12:54
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pentyne posted:Still better then Bioware's actual writing. sure thing, buddy
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Jun 22, 2014 13:03
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I was thinking that Bioware is really creative to come up with "neutral" organizations that allow the player to be good or bad and still be "in character." Spectres in Mass Effect, Grey Wardens in DAO, Inquisitors in DA3. Makes you wonder why characters can't just be neutral by themselves, like Hawke in DA2 or your character in Baldur's Gate. Apparently it's better if you're part of a whole organization that is neutral but allows 'good' or 'evil' members equally. KotoR is one exception since you start a Jedi but can end up a Sith if you do bad things, IIRC. Then again they probably didn't have much chance to go wrong with Lucas breathing down their neck. I can't remember Jade Empire story and how they explained you having free reign over your decisions.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:17
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Furism posted:I was thinking that Bioware is really creative to come up with "neutral" organizations that allow the player to be good or bad and still be "in character." Spectres in Mass Effect, Grey Wardens in DAO, Inquisitors in DA3. Makes you wonder why characters can't just be neutral by themselves, like Hawke in DA2 or your character in Baldur's Gate. Apparently it's better if you're part of a whole organization that is neutral but allows 'good' or 'evil' members equally. In Jade Empire, you're a student of a dojo that was destroyed and is currently on the run from the ones who blew it up. You're also a spirit monk, but all the others were killed shortly after your birth, so you get to do whatever you want because there's nobody left to tell you otherwise.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:27
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TheChirurgeon posted:sure thing, buddy There is always a catch! Life is a catch! I suggest you catch it while you can!
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Jun 22, 2014 13:31
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I don't know why but I decided to play Dragon Age Origins one more time and was wondering if there was any mods that buffed two handed warriors that I should try.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:33
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Kajeesus posted:Hawke (not a Mage) decides to kill Isabela and sail off into the sunset with the Arishok. DA2 ends a chapter early and is better off for it. Meredith, Orsino and Anders all die in a fire and the conflict ends with more dead Kirkwallers and less stupid bullshit. Hawke eventually appears in DAI as Sten's second in command. Perhaps being brothers-in-arms with the Warden. It's a shame that Anders killed one of few the well-written DA2 character, the Grand Cleric. I liked that she had her obvious flaws but was far from a church fanatic. And even Meredith is downright reasonable considering she is responsible for Kirkwall's safety, until she gets her hands on the lyrium idol.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:35
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Furism posted:I was thinking that Bioware is really creative to come up with "neutral" organizations that allow the player to be good or bad and still be "in character." Spectres in Mass Effect, Grey Wardens in DAO, Inquisitors in DA3. Makes you wonder why characters can't just be neutral by themselves, like Hawke in DA2 or your character in Baldur's Gate. Apparently it's better if you're part of a whole organization that is neutral but allows 'good' or 'evil' members equally. This is because they need to come up with organizations that can account for having both puppy rapists and double-jesus clones among their numbers without it being nonsensical. They don't do that with characters because writing neutral or mercenary characters is hard to do with any consistency. Having a clear moral theme for the protagonist let's them make the most of a limited amount of dialogue. For a good example of how you can get this wrong look at Alpha Protocol. Their dialogue system and writing were awesome, but they were also inconsistent enough in their tone that unless you played very carefully Michael Thorton came off looking like a complete lunatic. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 13:35
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Disco Infiva posted:There is always a catch! Life is a catch! I suggest you catch it while you can! That line never really bothered me, as I know an old woman who I could absolutely imagine saying that while cackling at her own wittiness.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:39
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HapiMerchant posted:FURTHER EDITS: Looks like the elven inquis is dalish only, no city elf choice. Why, I wonder? The ancestral dales of the elves are one of the big exploration areas in the game, so they probably want to give the elf inquisitor a chance to react to that. I mean, I guess there are lots of city elves in Orlais, too, but it's probably a vagary of development time and having to choose between "you can be two different types of elf!" or extra content that all players will see.
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Jun 22, 2014 13:54
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CottonWolf posted:That line never really bothered me, as I know an old woman who I could absolutely imagine saying that while cackling at her own wittiness. Also, Flemeth always talked like that. When you meet her in Origins she speaks in dithering riddles to the point where Alistair makes fun of her about it. I was playing the segment recently and one quote struck me as being particularly silly: Flemeth: "Take this to your Grey Wardens and tell them this Blight's threat is greater than they realise." Hero: "What do you mean, greater than they realise?" Flemeth: "Either the threat is more, or they realise less! Or perhaps the threat is nothing! Or perhaps they realise nothing! (laughs)" It's near-impossible to get a straight answer out of Flemeth, and difficult to get a sensible one. That's consistently her characterisation in both games.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:03
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- You are required to do nothing, least of all believe. Shut one's eyes tight or open one's arms wide, either way, one's a fool. - I'm no fool 
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Jun 22, 2014 14:07
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Geostomp posted:Which is a complete lie because Hawke seems to love nothing more than being told what to do. S/He never does anything important until someone tells him/her to do it. Yeah, but that's just because it's an RPG and RPGs need quest givers to give quests. The genre's always had a problem giving its protagonists self-motivation; the player has no real problems of their own (because they have no real life of their own, because that would get in the way of adventuring) and so they end up doing everything for everybody else. If you don't want to just chalk it up to video games, though, I think you could argue the difference is that when Hawke decides to wander into the Dismal Death Cave to rescue someone's lost teddy bear it's because she decided to take on that task; theoretically she doesn't actually have to do most of the quests, even story ones, if she doesn't want to, except for the fact that it's a video game and they need to get done so the story can progress. I don't think the Qunari are really meant to be unambiguous villains. The most unambiguous villains in that entire plot arc are Patrice and her zealots, and I'm pretty sure we're not meant to agree with them. My feelings on the Qunari always kind of fell into one of those weird gray areas: "I don't hate them, they're free to go do their thing and it's okay by me, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I'm not cool with some parts of their thing." That seemed like what they were going for to me. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 14:09
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Skippy McPants posted:This is because they need to come up with organizations that can account for having both puppy rapists and double-jesus clones among their numbers without it being nonsensical. They don't do that with characters because writing neutral or mercenary characters is hard to do with any consistency. Having a clear moral theme for the protagonist let's them make the most of a limited amount of dialogue. For a good example of how you can get this wrong look at Alpha Protocol. Their dialogue system and writing were awesome, but they were also inconsistent enough in their tone that unless you played very carefully Michael Thorton came off looking like a complete lunatic. I'm shocked you're trying to compare Alpha Protocol with Bioware's games and using AP as the bad example.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:14
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Captain Oblivious posted:Mages will count themselves lucky to still be alive when I am Inquisitor
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Jun 22, 2014 14:21
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Skippy McPants posted:This is because they need to come up with organizations that can account for having both puppy rapists and double-jesus clones among their numbers without it being nonsensical. They don't do that with characters because writing neutral or mercenary characters is hard to do with any consistency. Having a clear moral theme for the protagonist let's them make the most of a limited amount of dialogue. For a good example of how you can get this wrong look at Alpha Protocol. Their dialogue system and writing were awesome, but they were also inconsistent enough in their tone that unless you played very carefully Michael Thorton came off looking like a complete lunatic. And, best of all, if you acted like a lunatic several NPCs would call you out on it, you would lock yourself out of resolving plot points in certain ways, etc. There was no problem with being a lunatic in Alpha Protocol because it was written well. And it was entirely your choice to be a lunatic, because they very clearly give you an idea of what you're going to be saying. Although "Suave" should have been renamed "Creepy rear end in a top hat".
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Jun 22, 2014 14:36
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CottonWolf posted:That line never really bothered me, as I know an old woman who I could absolutely imagine saying that while cackling at her own wittiness. Did this old woman come flying in as a dragon, with her hair gelled up into hotrodded horns and wearing her finest final fantasy cosplay outfit?
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Jun 22, 2014 14:42
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SorcerousHam posted:And, best of all, if you acted like a lunatic several NPCs would call you out on it, you would lock yourself out of resolving plot points in certain ways, etc. Every time you gave a Suave response they should have made your moustache grow out a little bit, until you reached maximum Tom Selleck.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:43
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Krowley posted:Did this old woman come flying in as a dragon, with her hair gelled up into hotrodded horns and wearing her finest final fantasy cosplay outfit? Unfortunately not. I doubt she could pull off Nomura stylings.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:56
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My favourite part about suave Thorton was that if you were a skeevy poo poo all the time, the women would hate you completely. Break out the 'suave' stuff every so often for jokes and they'd respond positively because you weren't being MR SERIOUS.Skippy McPants posted:Their dialogue system and writing were awesome, but they were also inconsistent enough in their tone that unless you played very carefully Michael Thorton came off looking like a complete lunatic. Coming off as a complete lunatic was rather the point of swinging to extremes and got you called out by a number of NPCs, as well as enabling interactions that wouldn't have been accessible otherwise. In DA...not so much, as your personality is considered detached from each individual conversation. poptart_fairy fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 15:11
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Alpha Protocol was really good. Josh 'The Main Man' Sawyer was on the Giantbomb E3 cast and he mentioned that the team at Obsidian were aware of the love for Alpha Protocol, and the want for Archer Protocol.
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Jun 22, 2014 15:23
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poptart_fairy posted:My favourite part about suave Thorton was that if you were a skeevy poo poo all the time, the women would hate you completely. Break out the 'suave' stuff every so often for jokes and they'd respond positively because you weren't being MR SERIOUS. I think you can only side with Patrice's goons if you've been consistently aggressive throughout the game, but gently caress her.
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Jun 22, 2014 15:26
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