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Dawncloack posted:They were left as-is. To be honest, I think the Spanish speaking world gets the same flavour of kool-aid as the US, when it comes to the illuminati, chemtrails and blah blah. I can't think of large conspiracy theories that would be Spanish-specific. Yeah, I guess that ones like the Masons and Illuminati don't necessarily have nation specific ties (although the Founding Fathers being Freemasons and the dollar bill pyramid do seem a bit more US specific.) Some other things, though, like Area 51 and the craziness of 9/11 conspiracies don't seem like they'd resonate the same outside of our borders in quite the same way. Any other non-Americans out there know of any big-time conspiracy boondoggles specific to your country that might not have tied into ones we've hit this far?
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Jun 22, 2014 17:50
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I think I mentioned this one before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulles%27_Plan There's also the fact that "Judeo-Masonic" has such an emphasis on the "Judeo" part in Russian that certain segments of the population are convinced that "Masons" is just a synonym for "Jews". Ditto pretty much the entire Illuminati thing - it's all filtered down to a very simple anti-Semitic / anti-Western level.
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Jun 22, 2014 18:00
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Dawncloack posted:Spanish This is probably wrong, but I wonder if some companies skimp on the translations because they fear they'll attract piracy in other territories by making it more accessible. I disagree with that assessment for various reasons, but I can't shake that feeling that it's something grotesquely mercenary as opposed to simple laziness.
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Jun 22, 2014 18:16
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Magnetic North posted:This is probably wrong, but I wonder if some companies skimp on the translations because they fear they'll attract piracy in other territories by making it more accessible. I disagree with that assessment for various reasons, but I can't shake that feeling that it's something grotesquely mercenary as opposed to simple laziness. Translation is a really tough thing to do well. The best translations involve a native literate speaker of the target language reading and digesting the original text, and then recreating it in that language. By necessity this involves losing some of the nuance of what you're translating. The worst ones involve either running the whole thing through a dictionary program or throwing the task on someone in the group who "studied X in high school". To write a good translation you need to have a native understanding of the language you're translating to, you need to understand the source text, and you also need to be an excellent writer. Translating a long work is just as hard as writing a book from scratch! It takes time and it costs money, and you have to plan for it. The plague of guys in suits wanting to cut corners is the only mercenary part of the whole thing. As anime producers are starting to realize, a poor translation often encourages piracy (and it certainly doesn't convince people to buy your product). For the Spanish translation of Deus Ex I'm guessing the team hired a professional translator and a good editor, and then gave them enough time to do the job correctly. But take a look at something like the English translation of FF7. It's an incomprehensible mess, and it arguably takes an already difficult storyline and makes it nearly impossible to understand. The results resemble what you'd get if you asked a native Japanese guy from the office to write an English translation, tossed it over the fence to a native speaker, and then said, "We don't have time to fix this! Ship it!" Yet this was the modus operandi for almost all early 90s game publishers. But it's a lot better than it used to be.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:05
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All I know about Spanish translation is that Bethesda are loving horrible at it, to the point that whoever handled the stuff for Fallout New Vegas, they literally made Old World Blues unwinnable by loving up one of the choice dialogue paths.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:47
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FinalGamer posted:All I know about Spanish translation is that Bethesda are loving horrible at it, to the point that whoever handled the stuff for Fallout New Vegas, they literally made Old World Blues unwinnable by loving up one of the choice dialogue paths. Are you referring to a dialog loop when talking to your brain, because that's in the original.
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Jun 23, 2014 04:16
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Crazy week, huh? The new episode was released on schedule, but for those of you who don't follow my Youtube account, here's the update:    Handouts: Midnight Sun: Food of the Gods? APR: Beth DuClare gets Legion of Honor Clinic Email: Weekly Report Clinic Email: Rumor Control Clinic Email: Stay Home Clinic Email: What's Going On Smuggler Email: Friend in Need Smuggler Email: Informatsiya Smuggler Email: READ ME Known misses: The video ends in the middle of Hell's Kitchen again so nothing to say about that yet.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:20
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I've really got to watch They Live sometime soon.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:44
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I thought the purpose of the Grey Death was hinted at much earlier in the game, like when you first met Schick. Maybe I'm just remembering the sequence wrong but I think he mentions MJ12 deliberately infecting people and having him examine the results, trying to find out why some people can resist it and others die horribly.
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Jun 26, 2014 04:41
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Without additional details, that just sounds like unethical experiments, not necessarily that they're behind the whole thing.
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Jun 26, 2014 04:50
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I thought the purpose of the Grey Death was hinted at much earlier in the game, like when you first met Schick. Maybe I'm just remembering the sequence wrong but I think he mentions MJ12 deliberately infecting people and having him examine the results, trying to find out why some people can resist it and others die horribly. All he says is that he's doing antibody work and that they're doing secret experiments on people. People who include, as it turns out, JC Denton. You are right, though. The purpose of the Gray Death is hinted at in the intro to the game: "When I mentioned I could put him on the priority list for the Ambrosia vaccine, he was so willing it was almost pathetic." "Why contain it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches. Let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to save them." I figure Simons' and Page's nanoaugmentation jobs were expensive, custom rigs that took a lot of time and effort. A cheap mass roll-out of nanoaugmentation still eludes MJ-12, which is why there are a lot of labs working on the problem from a lot of different angles. One angle apparently involves taking samples from Gray Death victims because hey, why not? It's just nanites anyway. That might explain why they chose to use nanomachines to make the Gray Death, but appropriating samples is not the chief purpose of spreading the disease--it's just an added bonus.
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Jun 26, 2014 05:02
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I seem to recall when you knock out the Unatco troopers, it's MJ12 troopers that spawn in pairs, not riot cops. One pair spawns for every one Unatco trooper that you drop.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:37
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paragon1 posted:I've really got to watch They Live sometime soon. Another really fun analysis of it comes in Slavoj Žižek's A Pervert's Guide to Ideology. It's the first of many films he goes over and finds zany ways to link together to make his point, but he explores a lot of the film's specific attitude towards ideology and it's a pretty rad project.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:42
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Slavoj Žižek is great because he's like if SuperMechaGodzilla went pro.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:45
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Interesting thing (again from a molecular genetics point of view) is that Ford states that they were working on a cell line called JCD in his lab - now there are three ways this could be done. They either have a lot of source material - and this is becasue human cells, in fact, most non-'animal', i.e. not plant or fungi, cells can only maintain themselves for a set round of duplications in a lab setting before they stop, and eventually all die in culture - something called the 'Hayflick limit'. Needless to say, a lot of biological work involves unwanted results or unexpected results, and if you can't get a continual source of the cells, you can't guarantee you'll have enough to get the results you want. There are two ways in which the Hayflick limit can be overcome, well, actually ONE way. This way can happen naturally, or through induced mutation, but basically you use cancer cells. This is becasue the labs take advantage of what makes cancer cells as deadly as they are, that is uncontrolled growth. Cancer cell lines will, if fed and cleaned correctly, grow indefinately. There's a line of human cancer cells which is well known; non-scientific people may have heard about it; called HeLa, or Henrietta Lacks. Mrs. Lacks was an African American woman who developed cancer of the cervix. The tumour was removed (alas, it was malignant, so it didn't help her much) and cells were found to grow without succumbing to the Hayflick limit, i.e. scientists had for the first time, a human cell line that could be experimented upon without ever having to worry about gogin back to the original source. Of course, this was a breach in medical conduct - her next of kin were not asked if they would mind her cells being used in this way, so while scientifically, it was cool, ethically, it really wasn;t. As of now, I believe the mass of HeLA cells used world-wide are in excess of the cells hypothetically that could have ever made up Mrs. Lacks' body. So, if these guys had JCD cells, either they have a constant source of it, they've induced mutation in it through directed mutagenesis, or JC has cancer himself.
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Jun 26, 2014 07:15
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John Nadda. 'Nadda' is a colloquialism for nothing, i.e. "I got nadda." And John is a very generic name. In essence, the protagonist of They Live is figuratively generic no-one, the Everyman.
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Jun 26, 2014 07:23
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Now I haven't seen They Live so I can't be sure, but from Bobbin's description it sounds like you could easily read it as it being what happens when a paranoid schizophrenic man finally snaps and eventually commits suicide by cop.
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Jun 26, 2014 07:25
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The music for the return to New York is pretty great. Actiony yet sad and morose.
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Jun 26, 2014 09:14
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berryjon posted:John Nadda. 'Nadda' is a colloquialism for nothing, i.e. "I got nadda." And John is a very generic name. In essence, the protagonist of They Live is figuratively generic no-one, the Everyman. Not just a colloquialism, nada is Spanish or Portuguese for "nothing". 
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Jun 26, 2014 10:03
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rabiddeity posted:For the Spanish translation of Deus Ex I'm guessing the team hired a professional translator and a good editor, and then gave them enough time to do the job correctly. But take a look at something like the English translation of FF7. It's an incomprehensible mess, and it arguably takes an already difficult storyline and makes it nearly impossible to understand. Oh, fun that you mention that. The Spanish version was translated from the English one. Imagine the results. Actually, one example that's burned in my brain: "Choose members for the party" translates as "Elige miembros para la fiesta". That is, "party" was translated with the word used for, you know, getting together with your friends, dancing and drinking.
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Jun 26, 2014 10:22
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LeschNyhan posted:I seem to recall when you knock out the Unatco troopers, it's MJ12 troopers that spawn in pairs, not riot cops. One pair spawns for every one Unatco trooper that you drop. No, the streets are clear as of the end of the last video, and I only faced UNATCO troopers and riot cops. There will be MJ-12 troopers spawning eventually, but that comes later. paragon1 posted:Now I haven't seen They Live so I can't be sure, but from Bobbin's description it sounds like you could easily read it as it being what happens when a paranoid schizophrenic man finally snaps and eventually commits suicide by cop. I could see someone writing an analysis to that end, but it'd be on shaky ground. There's too much community involvement for it to all be in Nada's head.
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Jun 26, 2014 15:56
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HOTLANTA MAN posted:The music for the return to New York is pretty great. Actiony yet sad and morose. It really is the kind of theme you want to hear that embodies the feel of "returning to the neighbourhood". Also the empty free clinic really makes me sad, those poor staff who can't do anything to help despite all the news of Ambrosia. Also holy poo poo They Live sounds pretty loving fascinating I have to say, I have to totally find this movie now because that sounds amazing! So, lemme get this straight, the Grey Death is LITERALLY the evil grey goo of nanites you were talking about several times before that just eat away inside of people?! It's even the same makeup as JC's nanites?! ...I didn't even realise this  god drat.
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Jun 26, 2014 16:32
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FinalGamer posted:
It's not quite grey goo--that description is more of a "destroys eveything and converts it to nanites" scenario. GD isn't fatal within 24 hours, so it seems like these nanites are on much more of a slow burn and kill more by reproducing enough to degenerate systems than outright eating everything and converting you to a pile of nanites. If the theory holds true that they're just a means to turn the public into a giant petri dish for nanoaugmentation experiments (with the side benefit of social unrest) then they're almost certainly keyed to shut off eventually.
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Jun 26, 2014 19:12
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I could see someone writing an analysis to that end, but it'd be on shaky ground. There's too much community involvement for it to all be in Nada's head. Except for the ending (which we can't be absolutely sure happens), the very short story it's based on, "Eight O'Clock in the Morning" by Ray Nelson, could be read that way. George Nada is even reported as being a homicidal maniac on the radio. There was supposed to be a new movie more directly based on it but I don't know what happened there.
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Jun 26, 2014 19:58
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FinalGamer posted:So, lemme get this straight, the Grey Death is LITERALLY the evil grey goo of nanites you were talking about several times before that just eat away inside of people?! It's even the same makeup as JC's nanites?! Not exactly. Augmentations of any sort just trigger an immune response in the affected organisms. First it happened with mechanical ones, which caused neural damage and made cyborgs dependent of an expensive drug. Nanites are even worse, because they tend to replicate quickly and spread via circulatory system. Because of that, they get treated as a virus would be. An average human just couldn't be nanoaugmented - at best, their immune system couldn't keep pace with the amount of invaders, leaving them more susceptible to real pathogens. At worst, their organism would destroy itself with fevers, inflammations and widespread destruction of the tissue perceived as infected. Grey Death is caused by the nanomachine/virus hybrid programmed to do only one thing - grow inside its host. Some people's immune systems can neutralize the pathogen before it multiplies beyond control, others die a slow, painful death. JC is immune, because his organism doesn't have an augmentation allergy. Page wants complete control over the world. Ultimately, he wants everyone to be augmented - with one command he could make anyone a superhero or die horribly. While certainly beneficial to his plans right now, the standard immune system's reaction to nanites is troublesome for him in the long run.
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Jun 26, 2014 19:58
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Are you sure Beth Duclare is doing well?
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Jun 28, 2014 03:01
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Samovar posted:So, if these guys had JCD cells, either they have a constant source of it, they've induced mutation in it through directed mutagenesis, or JC has cancer himself. While JC was at UNATCO, he was getting regular (useless) ambrosia vaccinations. It's likely that they just harvested whatever cells they needed from him every time they did that, and shipped them around as necessary. If a doctor asks for a bunch of blood samples from you, most people just give them up and don't ask a lot of questions. FinalGamer posted:Yeah I really love the Return to New York theme, it's kind of a homecoming theme in like "welcome back, traitor" that really fits the whole vibe. It's got action but it's also got a morose feel to it like you said that makes you think of all the times you had here, all the people that are no longer there, all the poo poo that went down. The repeated trips to New York emphasize the growing threat. Every time you visit, the place is more screwed up and there are fewer friendly people there.
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Jun 28, 2014 14:05
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Out of curiosity, have you ever played the terrible They're alive? It's basically a cheap russian videogame knockoff of the movie.
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Jun 28, 2014 14:25
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idonotlikepeas posted:The repeated trips to New York emphasize the growing threat. Every time you visit, the place is more screwed up and there are fewer friendly people there. And now the third time it's...almost completely dead like a ghost town and every officer on the beat wants your drat head. Speaking of which I really appreciate you not killing any of the cops or UNATCO officers Bobbin, they really are just blameless pawns following orders. I mean from their perspective you DID suddenly leave UNATCO, aided a fugitive, murdered a high-level agent and assaulted your boss (though they might even have blamed Manderley's "sudden resignation" on you too so I dunno), and you are pretty much a criminal. I never tried to hurt them in my runs, it never felt right when they don't know anything.
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Jun 28, 2014 14:28
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I dunno about the need to treat the UNATCO soldiers with discretion at this point. They seem to have little compunction about killing civilians for practically no reason, so I'm not sure if there's really much of an argument that can be made that they're "just following orders". Any of them who have a shred of conscience left should be able to tell that they're involved in something pretty evil at this point.
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Jun 28, 2014 15:29
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Following orders is never an excuse or defense for anything. If you shoot a guy, you shot a guy. It doesn't matter who told you to do it, if the guy didn't have it coming you are a murderer. Edit: VVV I realize that. However, it is a position that I will never be able to bring myself to agree with. If your boss tells you to kill someone, and he either doesn't tell you why or doesn't give you a reason you find acceptable, your responsibility is to tell him to go gently caress himself. Crigit fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 28, 2014 |
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Jun 28, 2014 15:31
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Legally, and as far as most people are concerned, morally, that is not the case. There are any number of things you can do as a representative of the government - much less a soldier in times of war or martial law - that would be perfectly acceptable as you pursue your duties, though it would be illegal or immoral for an individual to do the same. Killing people is very much one of those things. Had the troopers shouted some equivalent of "hande hoch" before they opened fire, their actions would have been completely according to accepted protocol right now much less in a dystopian future.
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Jun 28, 2014 15:40
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Mr. Lobe posted:I dunno about the need to treat the UNATCO soldiers with discretion at this point. They seem to have little compunction about killing civilians for practically no reason, so I'm not sure if there's really much of an argument that can be made that they're "just following orders". Any of them who have a shred of conscience left should be able to tell that they're involved in something pretty evil at this point. Not that I disagree with you in principle, but there is the matter of the Milgram experiment, if nothing else in regards to the likelihood of a person leaving due to conflicts of conscience.
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Jun 28, 2014 15:59
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Yeah, except all of that is beside the point. These guys know exactly why they're shooting at JC, and from their point of view it is completely 100% justifiable. They're JC Denton 48 hours ago.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:06
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paragon1 posted:Yeah, except all of that is beside the point. These guys know exactly why they're shooting at JC, and from their point of view it is completely 100% justifiable. They're JC Denton 48 hours ago. I meant more in regards to the assertion that a person with "a shred of conscience" would automatically resign or start disobeying once their orders reached an arbitrary immorality threshold.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:17
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Crigit posted:Following orders is never an excuse or defense for anything. If you shoot a guy, you shot a guy. It doesn't matter who told you to do it, if the guy didn't have it coming you are a murderer. Keeshhound posted:I meant more in regards to the assertion that a person with "a shred of conscience" would automatically resign or start disobeying once their orders reached an arbitrary immorality threshold. Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble Crigit, but not only is this a suggestion a plausible scenario, it's actually pretty much how it works out in the real world - sort of. The Milgrim experiment is a good example as a starting point; look it up if you aren't familiar with it. For best results, throw in a physically and mentally demanding course of training alongside indoctrination and esprit de corps, and an assurance from authority that the people you're against are traitors/enemies/undesirables and add in a supposed moral ground to operate from. The U.S. didn't really have a problem getting draftees to shoot their guns (mostly at the enemy) in Vietnam - how much easier to deal with UNATCO soldiers, all of whom intentionally signed up for the cause?
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Jun 28, 2014 17:14
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If you want to starting talking about moral issues, it's better to look at the MJ12 troops and virsalife instead of the UNATCO. UNATCO, at lest in theory, has a reason to do what they are doing. They are fighting in a post almost 2nd civilwar American where an organization that at one point was an actual army, so to speak of, has now made roots in there area. Some of the MJ12 guys know 100% what is going on, but are going ahead with the plan anyway. Their best defense maybe that they know how easy it would be for someone higher to just make them disappear.
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36
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Olesh posted:The U.S. didn't really have a problem getting draftees to shoot their guns (mostly at the enemy) in Vietnam - how much easier to deal with UNATCO soldiers, all of whom intentionally signed up for the cause? I'm with you on the fact that it's pretty easy to get people to do evil things with the right circumstances. On this particular point, though, a lot of research has gone into figuring out why this is counterintuitively not true. Turns out, the vast majority of soldiers in Vietnam deliberately shot high. WWII, also. There is a book, On Killing, by a Lt. Col. Grossman, which investigates the realities of this and tries to find solutions. Truth is, it's still a pain in the rear end to induce normal people to kill readily, and when we succeed, well, there are definitely troubling outcomes.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:19
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Olesh posted:Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble Crigit, but not only is this a suggestion a plausible scenario, it's actually pretty much how it works out in the real world - sort of. The Milgrim experiment is a good example as a starting point; look it up if you aren't familiar with it. For best results, throw in a physically and mentally demanding course of training alongside indoctrination and esprit de corps, and an assurance from authority that the people you're against are traitors/enemies/undesirables and add in a supposed moral ground to operate from. I know all of that. But we can do better and expect better of each other.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:30
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Crigit posted:I know all of that. But we can do better and expect better of each other. This is a completely empty sentiment, utterly devoid of any depth or actual meaning in this context.
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Jun 28, 2014 19:07
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