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Is "Y" the same thing that us normal people call "coach" or "economy?" Why's it called Y?
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Jun 22, 2014 15:46
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I had heard it was because in the days of handwritten tickets "E" for economy was too close to "F" for first so they took the last letter in economy "Y". I anxiously await someone to correct me.
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Jun 22, 2014 16:20
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The Ferret King posted:Is "Y" the same thing that us normal people call "coach" or "economy?" Why's it called Y? I've worked for an airline for 16 years and I have no idea. Same reason "business class" is called J? -edit- "Y"ou'll be lucky Hand"J"ob under the quilt "F"ellatio (metaphorically how the airline treats you) Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 16:23
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hobbesmaster posted:I thought all US carriers had free beer/wine in Y on transoceanic flights. In business/first class yeah.
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Jun 22, 2014 21:19
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hobbesmaster posted:I thought all US carriers had free beer/wine in Y on transoceanic flights. It takes a lot of free booze for a transatlantic overnight on an A332 tolerable.
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Jun 22, 2014 21:28
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^^^^ Nothing fundamentally wrong with an A330 the interior can be as terrible or good as the carrier is willing to invest. Last time I was on an A330 though it was a practically empty NRT-MSP flight and I had a row of economy comfort to myself. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:In business/first class yeah. Y is whatever the carrier calls economy. And you definitely get beer/wine/sake on NRT routes on Delta. hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 21:29
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hobbesmaster posted:^^^^ I had no idea MSP had directs to Asia and Europe.
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Jun 23, 2014 00:16
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Jealous Cow posted:I had no idea MSP had directs to Asia and Europe. Last year I flew CDG (Paris)-MSP on an Air France A340 - unfortunately handling an A340's-worth of passengers at once really bogged down their customs and security re-screening facilities. Though, I actually made the connection, which was more than I could say this year.
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Jun 23, 2014 00:25
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Jealous Cow posted:I had no idea MSP had directs to Asia and Europe. Legacy of it being the primary Northwest Airlines hub.
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Jun 23, 2014 00:47
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monkeytennis posted:The people on AF447 might disagree, if they could. Wasn't AF447 a pitot issue and not actually an AF fault? I was under the impression that the carriers had suggested the issue to Airbus but Airbus didn't do anything about it? Or do I have it backwards.
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Jun 23, 2014 00:56
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StandardVC10 posted:Last year I flew CDG (Paris)-MSP on an Air France A340 - unfortunately handling an A340's-worth of passengers at once really bogged down their customs and security re-screening facilities. Though, I actually made the connection, which was more than I could say this year. CDG customs are notoriously slow.
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Jun 23, 2014 01:09
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Barnsy posted:Wasn't AF447 a pitot issue and not actually an AF fault? I was under the impression that the carriers had suggested the issue to Airbus but Airbus didn't do anything about it? Or do I have it backwards. Poorly thought out safety systems and pilot error.
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Jun 23, 2014 01:23
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Barnsy posted:CDG customs are notoriously slow. Actually I was talking about Minneapolis-St. Paul's customs and security. Not that I can find all that much to disagree with in what you said though.
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Jun 23, 2014 01:29
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Barnsy posted:Wasn't AF447 a pitot issue and not actually an AF fault? I was under the impression that the carriers had suggested the issue to Airbus but Airbus didn't do anything about it? Or do I have it backwards. Like most major accidents there is a lot of contributing factors that cause the accident. The pitot tubes getting iced up and no longer giving a correct reading caused the flight computer to go into a mode where they will now allow the pilots to crash the plane if they feel like it. The pilots respond to how they normally would on an Airbus, and pull back on the stick and give it full throttle. Which just puts them in a stall that they keep making deeper. So they crashed a perfectly flyable plane, since they didn't think it would let them.
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Jun 23, 2014 01:35
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Bondematt posted:Like most major accidents there is a lot of contributing factors that cause the accident. All of this, with the addition that the Air France training program apparently didn't touch on identifying and operating under alternate law.
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Jun 23, 2014 01:58
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Well then, Air France is completely poo poo. I can't think of a reason to fly on them. You'd think at least the food would be decent, but that's not the case. They're not cheap either. It always hurts admitting your national carrier is poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:19
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SCOTLAND posted:The MU-2 was a great airplane to fly, although it sucked trimming and refueling it. Gives you plenty of time to look at weather maps to avoid ice crystal icing! My dad had an MU-2. He flew it with a guy who used to fly it for Mitsubishi as a test pilot. He eventually stopped flying because he was getting afraid of the airplane. Heres a great idea, lets use spoilerons. Dump some lift at low speed to turn, won't kill ya at all!
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Jun 23, 2014 02:29
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hobbesmaster posted:I thought all US carriers had free beer/wine in Y on transoceanic flights. Not the last time I had the misfortune to fly a US carrier across the atlantic (which was 2006). gently caress that, BA from there on out.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:40
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Barnsy posted:Well then, Air France is completely poo poo. I can't think of a reason to fly on them. You'd think at least the food would be decent, but that's not the case. They're not cheap either. I hear good things about Lufthansa.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:42
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hobbesmaster posted:I hear good things about Lufthansa. Lufthansa was cramped as hell, but the flight attendants were rather hot and there was beer aplenty.
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Jun 23, 2014 02:46
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Barnsy posted:Well then, Air France is completely poo poo. I can't think of a reason to fly on them. You'd think at least the food would be decent, but that's not the case. They're not cheap either.    Welcome, friend.
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Jun 23, 2014 04:32
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I would really like to recommend a book: Viper Pilot by Dan Hampton. All about an f-16 pilots experiences in the gulf war and in Iraq in the 2000s
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Jun 23, 2014 04:39
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Jealous Cow posted:Poorly thought out safety systems and pilot error. This is the problem with the airbus design philosophy. The pilot is there to manage the systems, monitor the autopilot, and take over in case something breaks. The problem is that they've designed the pilot out of most of the systems so that when something DOES go wrong the pilots tend to get very confused very quickly by the information the airplane is giving them. While AF447 is probably the most well known example of Airbus Informational Cluster Fucks, QF32 is down right terrifying. It took a very experienced crew about an hour to figure out how much poo poo was wrong with their airplane, and even then they still didn't realize that their #1 engine was running right next to a fairly substantial fuel leak. Oh and then there's QF72 which just gives me the heebie-jeebies.
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Jun 23, 2014 04:59
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Jealous Cow posted:I had no idea MSP had directs to Asia and Europe. The amount of godawful early AMS-MSP-AMS flights i've taken... I think I even took one of the last NW DC-10 flights ever on that route.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:04
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Captain Apollo posted:I would really like to recommend a book: Viper Pilot by Dan Hampton. All about an f-16 pilots experiences in the gulf war and in Iraq in the 2000s I just read this a few weeks ago and I really enjoyed it too.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:11
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KodiakRS posted:This is the problem with the airbus design philosophy. The pilot is there to manage the systems, monitor the autopilot, and take over in case something breaks. The problem is that they've designed the pilot out of most of the systems so that when something DOES go wrong the pilots tend to get very confused very quickly by the information the airplane is giving them. This is the difference between Airbus and Boeing - look at the FBW in the 777 for example. If you jam the 777's yoke to the left, it will roll to the maximum bank angle within design specifications, then increase the control forces to let you know you're exceeding the flight envelope. Keep pushing, and it will happily keep rolling until you go inverted. The philosophy is that the pilot is in control, not the computers.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:20
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A Melted Tarp posted:This is the difference between Airbus and Boeing - look at the FBW in the 777 for example. If you jam the 777's yoke to the left, it will roll to the maximum bank angle within design specifications, then increase the control forces to let you know you're exceeding the flight envelope. Keep pushing, and it will happily keep rolling until you go inverted. The philosophy is that the pilot is in control, not the computers. Yeah, but what if the pilots don't realize they're in control and hit a sea wall at the end of a runway?
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Jun 26, 2014 02:43
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fknlo posted:Yeah, but what if the pilots don't realize they're in control and hit a sea wall at the end of a runway? Better than not realizing they're in control and stalling it into the ocean.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:47
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two_beer_bishes posted:I just read this a few weeks ago and I really enjoyed it too. I liked the part when Charlotte ATC tried to get him to shoot down SF choppers after 9/11.
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Jun 26, 2014 04:17
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Bondematt posted:Like most major accidents there is a lot of contributing factors that cause the accident. I think AF447 was also a case of poor design not making it obvious to the pilots what was really going on, and providing misleading information. When the pitot probe iced over, it triggered a lengthy series of caution and warning messages that the crew had to work through, but the message that indicated the core problem (loss of airspeed/altitude data) was buried somewhere near the bottom of the list, which meant the crew would have a hard time figuring out exactly what had caused all the other failures. Compounding the problem was the fact that during the stall event, the flight director kept intermittently appearing, and when it did appear, it was commanding a nose-up attitude, which the crew likely tried to follow.
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Jun 26, 2014 05:43
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Flikken posted:I liked the part when Charlotte ATC tried to get him to shoot down SF choppers after 9/11. I got a kick out of that. I don't the the 7110 has anything on issuing clearances for launching missiles!
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Jun 26, 2014 05:46
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Flikken posted:I liked the part when Charlotte ATC tried to get him to shoot down SF choppers after 9/11.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:They should have asked an F-15 pilot instead. So I Googled F15 fratricide and 
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Jun 26, 2014 06:44
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Animation of the Asiana 777 crash released by the NTSB. Pretty damning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U
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Jun 26, 2014 07:42
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Dead Reckoning posted:They should have asked an F-15 pilot instead.  And that, gentlemen, is how we do that.
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Jun 26, 2014 07:48
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I saw the blue angels practice today, didn't get any pics because wayyy too busy having a rock hard erection in a crowd of thousands. I have had a pretty drat good vacation this week.
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Jun 26, 2014 09:45
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KodiakRS posted:This is the problem with the airbus design philosophy. The pilot is there to manage the systems, monitor the autopilot, and take over in case something breaks. The problem is that they've designed the pilot out of most of the systems so that when something DOES go wrong the pilots tend to get very confused very quickly by the information the airplane is giving them. I don't really know anything about Airbus system design, but would something like QF32 happening on a Boeing product not take as long to diagnose fault, and if so, why?
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Jun 26, 2014 12:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't really know anything about Airbus system design, but would something like QF32 happening on a Boeing product not take as long to diagnose fault, and if so, why? One of the issues with QF32 is that the A380 has multiple redundant (digital) control systems for safety. Airbus cunningly ran all of the control systems through the same point in space to reduce weight, which just happened to also be occupied by debris from an exploding turbine. The other problem was the way that FADEC failed on, but that isn't Airbus's fault. It isn't even a fault really, FADEC is designed to fail at the last throttle setting received, which in this case was full. Even if they'd known/cared about the fuel leak, the engine controls were severed so there was nothing that could be done on that part. I think from the pilot perspective, it wasn't an Airbus design problem at all (if you excuse running primary and backup controls next to each other - which is probably a reasonable thing to do in a non-combat aircraft). QF32 was just REALLY loving lucky that they had 2 full crew on board, along with a check captain and a check-check captain, and they needed all of them to figure out how to land the plane. The problem they had was how to configure a damaged, unresponsive, massively overweight aircraft (it was full of fuel) for landing. They had like 3000m available and needed a few hours to figure out how they could land it in 2900m or something (I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was a 100m or so margin of error) Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 14:28
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On a far far smaller note - anyone know any recent information on what's happening with CityJet and VLM? They've started repainted VLM's Fokker 50s in a pretty neat VLM livery rather than the new CityJet livery they're putting on the RJs, so I was wondering whether anyone had seem anything about them splitting up. (Both the CityJet and VLM new liveries look pretty neat to me - not supposed to use my phone airside so I didn't grab any photos.)
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Jun 26, 2014 15:37
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If I can add to book chat, I'm about half way through Outlaws Inc. and it's a pretty fun read. I highly recommend it.
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Jun 26, 2014 15:51
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