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It was the 90's and it was the game dev industry, even today you see highly respected game developers (or former game developers) discovering the utility of basic programming concepts like immutability and referential transparency on like there 17th year in the industry and publicly tweeting about it.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:58
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seiken posted:who cares, everything is bad new thread title please
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Jun 27, 2014 07:10
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shrughes posted:It was the 90's and it was the game dev industry, even today you see highly respected game developers (or former game developers) discovering the utility of basic programming concepts like immutability and referential transparency on like there 17th year in the industry and publicly tweeting about it. Carmack's been in the industry for more like 25 years.
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Jun 27, 2014 10:55
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So my govt job has some horrors. No documentation, lots of asp classic .NET 2.0 poo poo, no idea what is in what database, and source control isn't "necessary" so I have to email the senior dev for everything since he's never even at work most of the time. He has to work from home to dodge meetings since the higher ups know and like him now. Being that this is a courthouse, if a judge or THE judge wants something, judge gets it. The thing that kills me the most is the completely hosed un-normalized database a product from a vendor creates, and the fact that we can't really edit it. Senior Dev is also enough of a goon and did stuff like figure out their bad, hand rolled hash implementation for their 'security' which wasn't salted. My gut says we need a drat project manager to just stop new work for a while, document EVERYTHING, put poo poo in a source control, and make it so you don't have to email the single point of failure about what is where and what does what, since without any access to the source you're basically twiddling your thumbs. All of the management here is never-was-a-dev. The Senior Dev who is salaried and technically an appointed official (pay reasons) is basically calling the shots, keeping source on his machine, and doled out work to a prior chain of temp contractors who came, left, and just added to the mess of no source control and no documentation. I love seeing commented out blocks without, yanno, comments or even dates. Welp. At least it's a great, great, great job if you want to look busy but actually fiddle fart all goddamned day.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:34
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gently caress them posted:So my govt job has some horrors. My old place was eerily similar (not government though). The bad, first day signs were the presence of DB tables like "god", or "fuck_you", combined with editing the source straight through FTP and loading scripts that went through every PHP file in the system and included them. Oh, good old times. edit: on the other hand, it was the job where porn was streaming on the screen above my head, so it had its perks (web hosting company). vvv That's why I've quit as well. That + impending insanity of dealing with that code. canis minor fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 16:40
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I should mention we paid for TFS. And the computer I'm on right now has a loving i7, water cooling, 32gb of memory, mid range gpus, and so on. I'm honestly a bit worried if I stay here too long I'll get lazy and rusty as gently caress. Edit: I know exactly how I'd fix this poo poo, and I'd like to, but I have no way to make anyone do it. This kind of makes me want to get into being a PM/manager. Well, that and I actually enjoy yacking with the biz types and politicians instead of hiding away to bang keys. Fuck them fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 16:44
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Just today I was notified about a crash by the people porting our elder-gods-created codebase to GCC 4.8 [1]. The mechanism for running constructors for static objects has changed, and it conflicts with a nasty hack we are using in a few hundred shared libraries [2]. Time to update the comment documenting this hack, again. [3] [1] Currently on 4.1 since we're still using RHEL 5. Our customers are very, very conservative and need serious arm-twisting to agree to OS updates. [2] Luckily the affected code is mostly auto-generated. [3] That comment starts with a quote from Canto III of Dante's Inferno, and goes downhill from there.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:55
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eithedog posted:edit: on the other hand, it was the job where porn was streaming on the screen above my head, so it had its perks (web hosting company).
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Jun 27, 2014 17:21
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gently caress them posted:I should mention we paid for TFS. You're the coding horror. Nothing is unique to this being in the public sector. gently caress's sake, you've been on the job less than 2 months and already want to tear everything down, tackle a new role you've only seen the fringes of, and go up against institutional leverage you don't understand? At least tame your ego until you've seen an entire quarter.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:26
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JawnV6 posted:You're the coding horror. Nothing is unique to this being in the public sector. gently caress's sake, you've been on the job less than 2 months and already want to tear everything down, tackle a new role you've only seen the fringes of, and go up against institutional leverage you don't understand? Lemme get this straight - you want everything to be on the senior dev's computer, and not on the TFS they paid for? I should keep just emailing him for everything? We shouldn't actually document things? I don't want to tear everything down. I want an actual PM (it will never happen ) I want more devs (might happen) I want the senior dev to loving be here (lol) and I'd like it if we didn't have a stream of contractors in contractors out, but actually kept people around. Oh, and source control, poo poo not all on the senior dev's computer, the senior dev's poo poo documented so we don't depend on him, etc. Please tell me why I'm arrogant for wanting that and how that's destructively tearing the things down point by point TIA.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:33
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If my junior dev came to me after a week and said our entire process was poo poo and he wanted to become a senior dev as well as PM as well as manager, I would've laughed him out of the room. I'm not defending the minor points of obviously-wrong practices you desperately want me to engage on. I'm saying your viewpoint is no different than how!!'s and you should take more than 8 weeks to declare everything is unworkable and that you're the golden savior to come charging in and take over the entire department and 3 roles you're unqualified for. Take the hubris down a peg and/or stop filling every loving thread with your little quibbles over your current job.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:41
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This is the thread specifically for little quibbles over your job. He can post it if he wants. And he's not swinging his dick around going "I'M GONNA CHANGE EVERYTHING UNGHHHHHHH", he's doing the same thing you are: complaining in a lovely internet thread.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:46
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Pollyanna posted:This is the thread specifically for little quibbles over your job. He can post it if he wants. And he's not swinging his dick around going "I'M GONNA CHANGE EVERYTHING UNGHHHHHHH", he's doing the same thing you are: complaining in a lovely internet thread. way to miss the point
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Jun 27, 2014 17:48
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The DBA in an email to me just now posted:There is A LOT to learn about where everything is at, I have been here 9 years and still learning exp after switching sides of the house to the programmers side. Most of the stuff that is hard to find we usually don’t know about it because only one person usually handles it. We could def use $SRDEV being he has been here the longest to help compile a list of directories and servers so we know where everything is at. I keep notes as I go along and my computer is FULL of them. And I back those notes up IN CASE something happens to my machine. Better keep this institutional inertia going! Better not rock that boat right? I mean sure, I guess the proper thing to do is to just enjoy that I can very easily be a lazy gently caress at this job, or move on quickly so I don't end up lazy and rusty, and not even make the attempt to organize anything, or point out to the non technical management that we need someone to at least make the attempt to use source control and proper documentation. JawnV6 posted:If my junior dev came to me after a week and said our entire process was poo poo and he wanted to become a senior dev as well as PM as well as manager, I would've laughed him out of the room. I never said I wanted to be a loving PM or manager. I said I'd like to go in that direction, since it's clearly an issue. Also, if you were actually ever loving here you'd be lightyears ahead of our senior dev! Who the gently caress appointed you ego/tone police anyway? Get off your loving high horse. I also never said destroy everything or that it's unworkable, or to redo it all. I did say we need to put poo poo on source control and actually document something. I'd like a good PM to be hired who actually knows about programming instead of the stream of administrative types who can't even tell anything is wrong that we've had. Why are you so goddamned touchy? How did you twist "hey, I should get people to write poo poo down and the lazy dev to put his poo poo on the TFS he got people to pay for!" into "I'm how!! and I want a loving rewrite of everything."? Fuck them fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 17:49
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fritz posted:That sounds like a workplace horror. Depends how you look at it  But to be serious it was indeed awkward and you'd question why it was running at all (bear in mind this was in not a biggish room, with 5 guys and a girl crammed in). The official reason was "we're testing the streaming services of a provider we're about to implement", and after a week, I think, it was switched off; it was also running on mute. It did weird some people out, when they'd actually see it, but I found hilarious that there was a screen running porn and us staring intently at our screens, at the code we were writing, paying it no attention as if it was most normal thing in the world. I guess my boss was a teenager and/or was not getting any at home...
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Jun 27, 2014 17:52
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coffeetable posted:lollllllllll Then what's the point? vv I don't know who how!! is and I doubt he matters. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 18:07
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There is a spectre haunting CoC. The spectre of how!!
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Jun 27, 2014 18:12
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JawnV6 posted:Take the hubris down a peg and/or stop filling every loving thread with your little quibbles over your current job. Also, willingness to laugh at someone who you think has the wrong idea is also a sign of a terrible manager. Or an employee whose team doesn't enjoy working with him/her.
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Jun 27, 2014 18:16
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Wow. I don't know where you work, but boy am I glad I don't work there. He complained about a dysfunctional, lovely process and you jump down his throat as if he declared independence from his coworkers and decided that he was the solution. He's been at this same lovely posting style for a while and if it's going to spread beyond the newbie thread I'm going to speak up. Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Also, willingness to laugh at someone who you think has the wrong idea is also a sign of a terrible manager. Or an employee whose team doesn't enjoy working with him/her. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2014 19:56
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gently caress them posted:Who the gently caress appointed you ego/tone police anyway? Get off your loving high horse.
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Jun 27, 2014 19:58
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I don't know who either of you are and don't care, this is a thread about coding horrors not helldump/talking about whether or not someone is entitled.
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Jun 27, 2014 20:08
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eithedog posted:Depends how you look at it That the guy who got sectioned? Also, a site went live today. And uh, things weren't going that easily so I decided to have a look at the selectors to see what was going on. code:code:This almost made me cry. Westie fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 21:11
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JawnV6 posted:You know this is 2banks, right? Who filled the newbie thread with this garbage about his previous job for a ridiculously long time, then didn't bother to check if this position was filled with terrible practices before jumping ship? I did. They correctly said they have source control MSDN accounts and all that cool jazz. See, the problem is I can't know what it's like to work for them before I work for them, and much like how lovely devs can pass interviews and become employed lovely devs, lovely workplaces can learn how to sell themselves, not even lie, but suck in practice. JawnV6 posted:He's been at this same lovely posting style for a while and if it's going to spread beyond the newbie thread I'm going to speak up.   Go gently caress yourselfJawnV6 posted:If he came to me now, a few months after joining and having been through a product cycle, I would take that input with much higher regard. Firing off your gut check reaction after 4 days on the job, never having seen a quarterly update, never having seen a project life cycle, never having heard "ISO" is why some practices seem goofy, is much more worthy of derision. Wait, what? Product cycle? Project life cycle? Quarterly update? We don't have those. We have ONE senior dev who does really awful things, like keep his code on his computer and string along the higher ups since he's in a situation where he can do it. Also I'm the only other dev in the entire courthouse and I'm here more than him. By the way I've been here longer than 4 days holy poo poo. JawnV6 posted:You should've asked these questions while interviewing. I don't know how you filled 10 pages of posts in the newbie thread without understanding that, but you're pretty stupid for getting yourself into this position and I'd rather not read about your repeated attempts at banging your head against a wall in every single CoC thread you misguidedly think it's appropriate in. I did. They answered correctly. But the thing is, yanno, non technical people who actually do the interview can go "Hey programmer person, do we have foo? bar? baz?" and the goony lazy dev goes "yep!" and they all told the truth. But I can't make him put it up on the loving source control. I also can't see that they're using these things I asked about. Interviews can only go so far. I'm glad that you decided to white knight the CoC on behalf of everyone who might see a poster who talks a lot about about getting into the industry, or is too entitled according to you, or has a bad attitude according to you, and needs to be told what a whippersnapper he is - by you - because you clearly are in a similar situation where you have little to do and need to fill your busy day. Or yanno you can loving deal with it, and stop making GBS threads your pants because people talk differently than you?
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Jun 27, 2014 21:13
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 lovely slapfight derail over!
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Jun 27, 2014 21:24
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Jeez, calling someone how!! should be probatable. Some things you can't take back, man. e: oh hey a probation
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Jun 27, 2014 21:30
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Westie posted:That the guy who got sectioned? What is up with people using CSS classes for things that there will only ever be one instance of?
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Jun 27, 2014 22:11
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vOv posted:What is up with people using CSS classes for things that there will only ever be one instance of? Yeah, that's something I ask myself plenty of times as well. Thankfully my colleagues from time to time do style for IDs, for something like an accordian or some other javascript based widget. Also, people who use CSS compilers who think this is acceptable behaviour: code:
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Jun 27, 2014 22:28
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QuarkJets posted:How do teams manage to start coding things like game engines without anyone yelling "HEY let's use source control for this huge project that we are about to undertake" Subversion didn't exist until like 2000, and Git was 2005 or so. My first project/release at my new job finishes next Friday, and the first thing I'm doing after that (with my java greybeard boss who is in way over his head's permission) is going from a server with versions/backups consisting of "appname1", "appname2", "appname3", "appname4good", "appname4doesntwork" to version control and proper environments. He has never used a local VM for development, ever. He has just been in the industry for like 30 years and it has never come up somehow.
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Jun 27, 2014 23:08
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Subversion didn't exist until like 2000, and Git was 2005 or so. Source control existed long before SVN and Git... Hell, source safe had it's first release in 1995.
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Jun 27, 2014 23:13
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necrotic posted:Source control existed long before SVN and Git... Hell, source safe had it's first release in 1995. Yes, of course, I guess I was mostly trying to point out that those in particular are pretty recent? vOv
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Jun 27, 2014 23:18
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Westie posted:Yeah, that's something I ask myself plenty of times as well. I think the logic is "but what if I use it again later???????"
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Jun 27, 2014 23:19
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If there was a point in your adult life when source control didn't exist, you're due for retirement.
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Jun 27, 2014 23:26
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:He has never used a local VM for development, ever. Hell, I don't either. Unless you mean just having a special set of (known-version) libraries or something?
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Jun 28, 2014 00:07
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Yes, of course, I guess I was mostly trying to point out that those in particular are pretty recent? No one called out svn or git by name so I don't know what to say e: Another example: CVS was first released in 1990
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Jun 28, 2014 02:36
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Soricidus posted:If there was a point in your adult life when source control didn't exist, you're due for retirement. CVS came out in 1990; RCS has existed since 1982. Hell, even Perforce has been around since 1995. e: f; b. Hubis fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 28, 2014 |
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Jun 28, 2014 02:53
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SCCS came out in 1972.
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Jun 28, 2014 02:57
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so programmers who're, say, 45 would've been working before any commonly used scm existed. that seems a little low for a mandatory retirement age.
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Jun 28, 2014 03:42
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Gul Banana posted:so programmers who're, say, 45 would've been working before any commonly used scm existed. that seems a little low for a mandatory retirement age. Thank you
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Jun 28, 2014 04:05
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Gul Banana posted:so programmers who're, say, 45 would've been working before any commonly used scm existed. that seems a little low for a mandatory retirement age. A 45 year old would have been 3 when ATT bundled SCCS with unix.
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Jun 28, 2014 04:08
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Gul Banana posted:so programmers who're, say, 45 would've been working before any commonly used scm existed. that seems a little low for a mandatory retirement age. The point is that source control definitely predates whatever 3rd party licensed game engine that guy was talking about.
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Jun 28, 2014 06:41
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