The Anti-vaccination movement!

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VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Ogmius815 posted:

We didn't intentionally infect those people, we just lied to them about how they were being treated. It was still loving horrible, but not as bad as you are implying.

EDIT: Ehh that sounds deceptively tame. Let's be clear: we lied to those people in Tuskegee about the fact that they were not being treated for their syphilis. It's one of the greatest shames of the scientific community and resulted in a new set of ethical standards (for example, this is why IRBs exist).

EDIT 2: Nope I'm wrong also. What happened is that we found a bunch of black men with syphilis, didn't tell them that they had syphilis, and continued to observe their untreated syphallis for decades even after an effective treatment (penicillin) had been discovered. Way to go America.

Actually, wives of these men became infected over the course of the study, and their children were born with congenital syphilis. This was an obvious outcome of witholding treatment (or in some cases diagnosis!) and we did it anyway, so it's pretty accurate to say we intentionally infected people with syphilis.

# ? Jun 9, 2014 00:09

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# ? May 24, 2024 16:14

Lead Psychiatry: Dec 22, 2004; I wonder if a soldier ever does mend a bullet hole in his coat?

I'm a bit skeptical since the child got a shot and not the nasal spray, but I guess it's still possible for the kid to come down with Hypoxia via that method. It's been observed before with other vaccines with kids under a few years, so makes sense they'd ban its use for those under five.

This is what I mean

Sadly, seems like the kid got a poo poo card in life. Condolences to her and the family.

# ? Jun 9, 2014 00:13

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Shakugan posted:

So there was a story (here) in Australia in the last few days about the family of a girl who developed problems (around the time she got a vaccine, fluvax I think it was called) getting a massive payment awarded to them with the judge apparently saying that it was the vaccine that caused the problems.

Anyone know if this is complete bullshit or an isolated incident where a vaccine somehow did cause a problem?

It sounds like complications from a fever caused by the vaccine. It seems particular to the production of the annual flu vaccine made in Australia that year and not anything to do with vaccination itself:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/virus-in-the-system/story-e6frg8h6-1226063484330

# ? Jun 9, 2014 00:26

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

In the US, that style of vaccine is generally prohibited for any patient as young as she was.

# ? Jun 9, 2014 00:32

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Shakugan posted:

So there was a story (here) in Australia in the last few days about the family of a girl who developed problems (around the time she got a vaccine, fluvax I think it was called) getting a massive payment awarded to them with the judge apparently saying that it was the vaccine that caused the problems.

Anyone know if this is complete bullshit or an isolated incident where a vaccine somehow did cause a problem?

Bullshit or not one case of somebody getting ill thanks to a vaccine does not make all vaccination bad. If memory serves a tiny percentage of people are actually inadvertently killed by vaccines in general every year. They on a rare occasion have issues. Some people get sick or die. It happens.

It's utter bullshit that this gets trotted out as an argument against vaccines because vaccination, as a general concept, prevents waaaaaaaay more death and illness than it actually causes. Maybe I'm crazy but I'd take "the polio vaccine killed two people this year" over "polio killed thousands this year and permanently crippled many more."

# ? Jun 9, 2014 04:16

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Especially when it comes to polio, that's a huge argument for mandatory near-universal vaccination because if we wipe out the disease, no one will ever have to be vaccinated for it again. Isn't the smallpox vaccine the one with the highest risk of complications?

And also, it's one of those times you have to force people, because even a simple game theory analysis will tell you that as more people are vaccinated and the disease incidence drops, skipping vaccination starts to become more desireable for an individual.

# ? Jun 9, 2014 04:52

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Good news from the Empire State:

NY Times posted:

Judge Upholds Policy Barring Unvaccinated Students During Illnesses

In a case weighing the government�s ability to require vaccination against the individual right to refuse it, a federal judge has upheld a New York City policy that bars unimmunized children from public school when another student has a vaccine-preventable disease.

Citing a 109-year-old Supreme Court ruling that gives states broad power in public health matters, Judge William F. Kuntz II of Federal District Court in Brooklyn ruled against three families who claimed that their right to free exercise of religion was violated when their children were kept from school, sometimes for a month at a time, because of the city�s immunization policies.

The Supreme Court, Judge Kuntz wrote in his ruling, has �strongly suggested that religious objectors are not constitutionally exempt from vaccinations.�

The lawyer for the plaintiffs, Patricia Finn, said she plans to appeal the decision, announced this month. On Thursday, Ms. Finn asked the district court to rehear the case.

Amid concerns by public health officials that some diseases are experiencing a resurgence in areas with low vaccination rates, the decision reinforces efforts by the city to balance a strict vaccine mandate with limited exemptions for objectors. Pockets of vaccination refusal persist in the city, despite high levels of vaccination overall.

State law requires children to receive vaccinations before attending school, unless a parent can show religious reservations or a doctor can attest that vaccines will harm the child. Under state law, parents claiming religious exemptions do not have to prove their faith opposes vaccines, but they must provide a written explanation of a �genuine and sincere� religious objection, which school officials can accept or reject.

Some states also let parents claim a philosophical exemption, though New York does not. Some parents refuse to have their children vaccinated because of a belief that vaccines can cause autism, though no link has ever been proved.

Two of the families in the lawsuit who had received religious exemptions challenged the city�s policy on barring their children, saying it amounted to a violation of their First Amendment right to religious freedom and their 14th Amendment right to equal protection under the law, among other claims. Their children had been kept from school when other students had chickenpox, their suit said.

The third plaintiff, Dina Check, sued on somewhat different grounds, saying that the city had improperly denied her 7-year-old daughter a religious exemption. She said the city rejected her religious exemption after it had denied her a medical exemption, sowing doubts among administrators about the authenticity of her religious opposition. But Ms. Check said the request for a medical exemption had been mistakenly submitted by a school nurse without her consent.

After the school barred her daughter, Ms. Check home-schooled her and then moved her to a private school that accepted her daughter without the vaccinations. State vaccination requirements cover public and private schools, but in New York City, private schools have more autonomy in handling exemptions.

Ms. Check said she rejected vaccination after her daughter was �intoxicated� by a few shots during infancy, which she said caused an onslaught of food and milk allergies, rashes and infections. Combined with a religious revelation she had during the difficult pregnancy, she said, the experience turned her away from medicine. Now she uses holistic treatments.

�Disease is pestilence,� Ms. Check said, �and pestilence is from the devil. The devil is germs and disease, which is cancer and any of those things that can take you down. But if you trust in the Lord, these things cannot come near you.�

In turning down all three families, Judge Kuntz cited a 1905 Supreme Court ruling that upheld a $5 fine for a Massachusetts man who disobeyed an order to be vaccinated during a smallpox outbreak, a case that helped establish the government�s right to require immunizations as a matter of public health.

Ms. Finn, the families� lawyer, said that case should not be relevant. �There�s no way that court anticipated that children would be subjected� to the vaccines they must get today, she said.

In New York, the statewide mean religious exemption rate rose over the last decade, from .23 percent in 2000 to .45 percent in 2011, a 2013 study in the medical journal Pediatrics said.

New York City schools granted 3,535 religious exemptions in 2012-13, according to data from the state�s Health Department. Though city schools, public and private, have an overall immunization rate around 97 percent, according to the department, 37 private schools were below 70 percent. Health experts believe that above a certain immunization rate, outbreaks are limited because a disease cannot spread to enough people during its incubation period to sustain itself, a phenomenon known as �herd immunity.� For measles, which is highly contagious, that rate is believed to be 95 percent, according to Daniel Salmon, deputy director at the Institute for Vaccine Safety at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Though widespread vaccinations have practically eliminated diseases like measles and mumps from the United States, flare-ups have occurred. The 477 measles cases reported this year represent the worst year-to-date count since 1994, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Among the 25 people who contracted measles in New York City between February and April this year, two were school-age children unvaccinated because of parental refusal. When one of the children, who was being home-schooled, contracted the measles, city health officials barred that child�s sibling, who had a religious exemption, from attending school. The sibling eventually contracted measles as well. Health officials credited the decision to keep the second child out of school with stopping the spread of disease in that community.

Ohio, which granted more than three times as many religious and philosophical exemptions to kindergarten students last year as it did in 2000, is struggling to contain a measles outbreak that has recently spread to 339 Amish people who were largely unvaccinated, the state health department said.

Mr. Salmon said it can be difficult for states to balance an obligation to mandate vaccination with some leniency for families who have strong objections. Rules that force parents to articulate their beliefs and require public officials to educate them about the risks of exemption are states� best defense against the spread of disease, he said.

Still, especially because parents who refuse vaccination tend to cluster geographically, it takes only a few unvaccinated children to start an outbreak, he said. At that point, even vaccinated children are at risk.

�Diseases have a way of finding our vulnerabilities,� Mr. Salmon said, �the kinks in our armor.�

# ? Jun 26, 2014 17:34

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Pretty Little Lyres

quote:

�Diseases have a way of finding our vulnerabilities,� Mr. Salmon said, �the kinks in our armor.�

Misquote, or carefully avoiding the phrase "chinks in our armor"?

Is this one of those "sounds similar and thus bad despite no linguistic relation" things like "niggardly"?

# ? Jun 27, 2014 09:46

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

I've heard "kinks in our armor" many times before, so it's part of our lexicon even if it's technically wrong

# ? Jun 27, 2014 11:03

Caros: May 14, 2008

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Misquote, or carefully avoiding the phrase "chinks in our armor"?

Is this one of those "sounds similar and thus bad despite no linguistic relation" things like "niggardly"?

Yeah. A chink is like a ding or a notch. It's not a racist thing in the context it is being used, but a bunch of sports writers got in poo poo saying it that way a while back while discussing that really tall Chinese bball player who's name escapes me.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:03

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Caros posted:

Yeah. A chink is like a ding or a notch. It's not a racist thing in the context it is being used, but a bunch of sports writers got in poo poo saying it that way a while back while discussing that really tall Chinese bball player who's name escapes me.

Well to be fair the optics of a big picture of a Chinese dude with "CHINK IN THE ARMOR?" under it aren't awesome.

But yea I've heard kink in the armor too, not sure if it's self censorship or what but it's a valid phrase.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:05

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

I feel like the anti-anti-vaccination hysteria is probably somewhere between shark attacks and crack babies as the new mostly harmless thing to whip up smug anger about. A bunch of people can vent at some confused mothers while the country is looted and flying robots kill people overseas.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:19

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

harper is bisexual posted:

I feel like the anti-anti-vaccination hysteria is probably somewhere between shark attacks and crack babies as the new mostly harmless thing to whip up smug anger about. A bunch of people can vent at some confused mothers while the country is looted and flying robots kill people overseas.

Yeah. I absolutely positively have so much of my attention caught up with this, that I am incapable of doing anything else. :rolleyes:

Calling it "vent[ing] and some confused mothers" glosses over the health concerns and the dire public health consequences. I had a lot of people in my family who had to deal with these childhood illnesses (including my mother who was temporarily paralyzed by polio as a kid), so it's personally important to me, and this is a cause of concern in the third world as well, so it goes well beyond the US or even my own family history.

However, if you feel it is not important enough, stick to the Middle East Politics thread or something; see nobody's forcing you to be exposed to a dangerous thread without access to the vaccine of not clicking on this thread.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:36

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

Absurd Alhazred posted:

However, if you feel it is not important enough, stick to the Middle East Politics thread or something; see nobody's forcing you to be exposed to a dangerous thread without access to the vaccine of not clicking on this thread.

I had rubella as a kid. Anyway I'm talking about a broader issue, not this particular thread. I see this on facebook all the time where people rant and rave about "stupid mothers" and such. I'm just commenting in the relevant thread that it annoys me. Also it seems odd how much attention it gets when like millions of people die from preventable illnesses due to hunger and people shrug and vote for creeps like Obama and Romney.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:45

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

So what do you do to fix the problem, and nothing else at all with your time because I assume like any moral person by your standards your life is dedicated to that task, oh enlightened sage?

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:49

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

Tatum Girlparts posted:

So what do you do to fix the problem, and nothing else at all with your time because I assume like any moral person by your standards your life is dedicated to that task, oh enlightened sage?

Work to destroy the US government and replace it with a new worker's power that organizes society along socialist lines. Pretty obvious.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 03:54

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

harper is bisexual posted:

Work to destroy the US government and replace it with a new worker's power that organizes society along socialist lines. Pretty obvious.

Why are you wasting your time on the internet when this worthy goal awaits? Why talk about vaccines at all? Go, go, for the good of the world!

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:01

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

Jack Gladney posted:

Why are you wasting your time on the internet when this worthy goal awaits? Why talk about vaccines at all? Go, go, for the good of the world!

Because I have faith that God will provide.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:06

Reverend Catharsis: Mar 10, 2010

I remember when I was a small child. I lived on a place called Fort Belvoir. My family had just gotten back from being posted at several bases across Europe. I had to get vaccinations, along with most of the other kids.

But three or four kids had parents who were massively anti-vaxxers and refused to get theirs vaccinated against the Big Ones- measles and what have you. So every single child in the school had to get boosters ASAP. This was problematic because I hated, and indeed still hate, needles. The only person who was for a very long time able to even approach me with a needle without me being drugged as hell or restrained was my mother.

I'm going to gloss over the reaction by the non-anti-vaxx mothers (have you ever seen a hundred angry mothers crowding a room? I have. I saw high ranking officers hiding in their offices- men whose jobs it is to decide who lives and who dies- hiding in fear of these mostly women, and a small handful of househusbands. They were piiiisssseeeeed)

Well mommy had to work that day, and the doctor, bless his heart, did everything he could to convince me that I absolutely had to have the booster. He even promised me a pizza. But as the day wore on he eventually was forced to call in my mother, and she had to take time from her busy government work to come down to the school and give me the shot as per the doctor's instructions. I was not happy about it but I did not fight her much because I am a colossal momma's boy.

When all was said and done pretty much every kid in the school was pissed off enough to projectile defecate broken glass. The doctors however were good on their word and most of our classes got a pizza treat as a reward for tolerating ANOTHER set of goddamned shots. And the families of those kids whose parents refused?

Ker-Gone'D. Transferred elsewhere and given orders to make it snappy. They were gone before the weekend and it was Wednesday, I think. Maybe Tuesday.

Good times, amirite?

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:25

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

I guess I do agree that vaccines should be mandatory, as with regular blood donation and end-of-life organ donation. It's weird people have a choice about things that could save lives.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:36

Reverend Catharsis: Mar 10, 2010

Blood donation can be kinda tricky, which is a really big reason NOT to have it be mandatory. My blood for example isn't very useful because I'm anemic as hell, even though I'm O Neg. But you don't want anemic people blood.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:40

harper is bisexual: Jan 10, 2014

Reverend Catharsis posted:

Blood donation can be kinda tricky, which is a really big reason NOT to have it be mandatory. My blood for example isn't very useful because I'm anemic as hell, even though I'm O Neg. But you don't want anemic people blood.

Sometimes rules can have exceptions I suppose.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:43

JibberJabberwocky: Mar 24, 2012

We make plenty of exceptions on who can donate blood now, that pretty much defines the category of "useful blood". Organ donation should definitely be mandatory.

You can make the argument it will cause a fair amount of distress or psychological discomfort to certain people to have to give blood, or some people may have beliefs about

Just as you might respect a Jewish claimant's opposition to organ donation if they held to that article of faith, you might make exceptions, but yeah.

Vaccination, more than those other things, should be mandatory because herd immunity. There isn't a threshold of organ donation where if you don't meet it, the need for organ donation suddenly goes out of control and kills more people than before.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 04:47

Reverend Catharsis: Mar 10, 2010

Indeed, Jibber. There's lots of exceptions to blood donation and organ donation that simply can never apply to vaccinations. It's just.. I mean okay. I see your fears, AVs. I understand them, even! I've personally assisted in the rearing of twelve children. Yes, it's okay to be afraid. But even if there WERE some link between autism and vaccination, even if in some mythological nonexistent world where it was true..

..Wouldn't autism be kind of acceptable as opposed to "having dead or crippled-for-life children"?

# ? Jun 28, 2014 05:02

tinytort: Jun 10, 2013; Super healthy, super cheap

Reverend Catharsis posted:

..Wouldn't autism be kind of acceptable as opposed to "having dead or crippled-for-life children"?

You'd think so, Rev. But apparently not! Which is...honestly kind of disturbing, when you think about it. These people are saying "I would rather my child be dead than autistic" - and, if you boil it down enough, "it is better to be dead than autistic". Which, um, no, quite happy being alive, kthxbai. I'm even doing pretty darn good - especially compared to how these people think I ought to be.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 05:52

Gen. Ripper: Jan 12, 2013

tinytort posted:

You'd think so, Rev. But apparently not! Which is...honestly kind of disturbing, when you think about it. These people are saying "I would rather my child be dead than autistic" - and, if you boil it down enough, "it is better to be dead than autistic". Which, um, no, quite happy being alive, kthxbai. I'm even doing pretty darn good - especially compared to how these people think I ought to be.

Blame Autism Speaks for that, as I understand it they really really heavily play up the "AUTISM IS LITERALLY A TRAGEDY SO DEVASTATING THAT PARENTS CONSIDER MURDER-SUICIDE WITH THEIR KIDS" angle.

IIRC they released some dumbass film way back when that had a mom talking about how she considered driving off the Golden Gate Bridge with her autistic kid in the backseat.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:01

Ethiser: Dec 31, 2011

While people who think thoughts like that are monsters and should be ashamed of themselves I imagine they are talking about cases of very sever autism not something on the lighter end of the spectrum like Aspergers.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:19

E-Tank: Aug 4, 2011

Gen. Ripper posted:

Blame Autism Speaks for that, as I understand it they really really heavily play up the "AUTISM IS LITERALLY A TRAGEDY SO DEVASTATING THAT PARENTS CONSIDER MURDER-SUICIDE WITH THEIR KIDS" angle.

IIRC they released some dumbass film way back when that had a mom talking about how she considered driving off the Golden Gate Bridge with her autistic kid in the backseat.

That wasn't just a random Mom, that was a member of their *board*. The only thing that stopped her from killing her autistic child, and herself, was the thought of the 'normal' child locked away inside of it....Which doesn't exist. Here's some more fun facts about Autism Speaks:

Autism Speaks does not have a single autistic member on their board.

Autism Speaks only spends 3% of their budget on �family services�.

Much of Autism Speaks� money goes toward research, and much of that research centers on finding a way to eliminate autism, and thus, autistics (which will likely be done through a prenatal test, in the same way that the Down�s Syndrome test is conducted).

Autism Speaks produces advertisements, small films, etc. about what a burden autistic people are to society.

Autism Speaks is responsible for the atrocity known as �I am Autism�, a short film produced by the Academy Award Winning Alfonso Cuaron, who also directed the 3rd Harry Potter movie (yes, really) and features an ominous voice saying things like �I am autism�I know where you live�I work faster than pediatric AIDS, cancer, and diabetes combined�I will make sure your marriage fails.�

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:21

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Jesus. I knew they were a bunch of ignorant self-absorbed assholes but Jesus Christ.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:31

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

E-Tank posted:

Autism Speaks is responsible for the atrocity known as �I am Autism�, a short film produced by the Academy Award Winning Alfonso Cuaron, who also directed the 3rd Harry Potter movie (yes, really) and features an ominous voice saying things like �I am autism�I know where you live�I work faster than pediatric AIDS, cancer, and diabetes combined�I will make sure your marriage fails.�

I am Autism, in turn, is (according to Wikipedia) patterned after Taming the Crippler, a movie dedicated to the horrible disease known as... poliomyelitis, and the vaccine which finally made it possible to fight it. :ironicat:

Here's an earlier radio show featuring the same idea of poliomyelitis as The Crippler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgJjmrkKlm4

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:33

Gen. Ripper: Jan 12, 2013

E-Tank posted:

~~Autism~~ Homosexuality Speaks does not have a single ~~autistic~~ homosexual member on their board.

~~Autism~~ Homosexuality Speaks only spends 3% of their budget on �family services�.

Much of ~~Autism~~ Homosexuality Speaks� money goes toward research, and much of that research centers on finding a way to eliminate ~~autism~~ homosexuality, and thus, ~~autistics~~ homosexuals (which will likely be done through a prenatal test, in the same way that the Down�s Syndrome test is conducted).

~~Autism~~ Homosexuality Speaks produces advertisements, small films, etc. about what a burden ~~autistic~~ homosexual people are to society.

~~Autism~~ Homosexuality Speaks is responsible for the atrocity known as �I am ~~Autism~~ Homosexuality�, a short film produced by the Academy Award Winning Alfonso Cuaron, who also directed the 3rd Harry Potter movie (yes, really) and features an ominous voice saying things like �I am ~~autism~~ homosexuality...I know where you live�I work faster than pediatric AIDS, cancer, and diabetes combined�I will make sure your marriage fails.�

I can't get over this poo poo

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:43

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Not the same at all actually.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 06:49

E-Tank: Aug 4, 2011

SedanChair posted:

Jesus. I knew they were a bunch of ignorant self-absorbed assholes but Jesus Christ.

She was Alison Tepper, their Executive Vice President at the time. She's now Alison Tepper Singer, and she later founded the Autism Science Foundation after she left or was kicked out of Autism Speaks for opposing research into the thoroughly debunked Autism/Vaccine link. ~ My friend who knows far more about this than I ever will.

Here are a few other terrible things that Autism Speaks has done recently.

This woman�s job offer was rescinded after she asked Autism Speaks for accommodations in caring for her autistic son. They refused, and she made necessary accommodations for childcare, but they withdrew her offer anyways.

Autism Speaks shared the news of Google removing hate speech regarding autistics from Google�s autofill feature, completely erasing any mention of autistic people�s flashblogs having anything to do with the change. It was only after a member of the autism community (and not a parent, but an autistic person themselves) spoke with a reporter about the flashblog and a statement was released to the media that Google decided to make this change.

Autism Speaks highlighted AAC use, while erasing those those who actually use AAC devices to communicate. The focus was on the caretakers, not on the autistic people themselves. (The attached link has a link to a rebuttal by a nonspeaking autistic person, Amy Sequenzia).

Autism Speaks has violated copyright and has profited off an autistic advocate�s writing for three years.

Source: http://thecaffeinatedautistic.wordpress.com/so-what-is-the-problem-with-autism-speaks/

# ? Jun 28, 2014 07:48

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

harper is bisexual posted:

Sometimes rules can have exceptions I suppose.

Yes, reasonable exceptions such as "don't give vaccinations to kids who have deficient immune systems" is fine. "I don't want my child to have vaccines because I don't understand them, I don't care what the doctors say" is not an exception that should be respected

# ? Jun 28, 2014 09:12

Caros: May 14, 2008

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Well to be fair the optics of a big picture of a Chinese dude with "CHINK IN THE ARMOR?" under it aren't awesome.

But yea I've heard kink in the armor too, not sure if it's self censorship or what but it's a valid phrase.

Oh I'm not saying it wasn't stupid as gently caress, but I also think that it was an unfortunate choice of words. I can't say I disagree with firing the guy, its just one of those unintended and lovely side effects of racism being as pervasive as it was.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 09:19

Cnut the Great: Mar 30, 2014

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Not the same at all actually.

Uh, yeah, are we not all on the same page that it would be better if kids didn't have autism?

# ? Jun 28, 2014 09:21

Caros: May 14, 2008

Benedick Cuckold posted:

Uh, yeah, are we not all on the same page that it would be better if kids didn't have autism?

Yeah. Not to be offensive since I know poo poo about the subject, but wouldn't it be beneficial to society and to parents if they could know in advance whether their child would be autistic. Especially if they could determine where on the range they might fall?

I know a lot of people love their autistic siblings or children, but at the same time they struggle deeply with the fact that especially low functioning people with autism can be a tremendous burden.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 09:25

E-Tank: Aug 4, 2011

Caros posted:

I know a lot of people love their autistic siblings or children, but at the same time they struggle deeply with the fact that especially low functioning people with autism can be a tremendous burden.

Congrats, you're parroting speaking points from Autism Speaks.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 10:26

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

If only we could come up with a solution that would get rid of this burden. A solution that would solve our problems once and for all...

# ? Jun 28, 2014 10:38

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# ? May 24, 2024 16:14

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

I don't know, this sounds like the start of an interesting thread. What is the line between reproductive choice and eugenics?

# ? Jun 28, 2014 12:45

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