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Not Grover posted:I spent some time asking around with my peers and heard responses back in the 12.50 range for day practices, so that does make me feel like I am right to be disappointed with that initial offer. Before I send a response back, I'd like to run it by the thread so you can tell me if it sucks or not.
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Jun 18, 2014 03:52
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Hand of the King posted:Can someone please give me advice on how to tell a company to hurry up with the hiring process to see where I am (and if they would make me an offer) because another company just offered a job to me? I'm very excited to work for [your company], but I have another offer with a deadline of [whenever]. Unless I receive an offer from you before the deadline, I plan on accepting their offer. Please let me know as soon as is reasonable if you still think I'm a good fit for your team. Thanks, HotK They'll appreciate you being professional and to the point. If I received an e-mail along these lines from someone I planned on hiring, I'd print if off, take it to the VP-Operations, and tell her to get off her rear end and authorize the budget for the hire. If it wasn't someone I planned on hiring, I'd write them back immediately and tell them to take the other offer.
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Jun 18, 2014 04:02
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  Also don't confuse hourly work with salaried work. If you're hourly you may have a hard cap on hours/week that you can work, your work will be tracked on hourly performance, and you typically get fewer bennies and no pto. Your compensation is on an hourly basis. Salaried work is generally compensated on an annual basis, may include exemption from overtime, and often includes vastly better benefits. The manager's email made it sound like they're looking at a temp to hire; you work hourly for a probationary period and then if they want to pull the trigger you'd get hired full time with an annual basis for compensation. If that's the case, you have another milestone for negotiation to join a time based one (90 days) and credential based (licensing and certification)
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Jun 18, 2014 17:39
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swenblack posted:Dear [Hiring manager], Thanks, my message to the recruiter at company B was pretty similar. However, I need to inform the company A whether or not I'm going to take the (verbal) offer by EOB tomorrow (6/19) and it's already half way through today (west coast). Should I just call company B if I don't see a response in the next hour? Company A's was just a verbal offer and they won't give me a written offer unless I give them the OK. I'm hoping company B can at least give me a verbal offer. Hand of the King fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 19:22
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Hand of the King posted:Thanks, my message to the recruiter at company B was pretty similar. However, I need to inform the company A whether or not I'm going to take the (verbal) offer by EOB tomorrow (6/19) and it's already half way through today (west coast). Should I just call company B if I don't see a response in the next hour?
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Jun 18, 2014 20:08
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Uranium 235 posted:If that's the case, I would go ahead and call. You don't have much time. Worst case scenario, they tell you they won't have a decision ready in time, or that you didn't get the job. Then you know to take the other offer. You really have nothing to lose by calling and asking. The recruiter responded by saying they'll have a decision by Monday 6/23  That's too late!!! I already explained I need to give the other company a response by EOB tomorrow!  I replied to her e-mail reiterating that I need to respond by EOB tomorrow and that she needs to give me a firm yes or no.
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Jun 19, 2014 00:27
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Hand of the King posted:The recruiter responded by saying they'll have a decision by Monday 6/23 Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, as I'm no expert on this. Hopefully someone more experienced can set us straight.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:05
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Hand of the King posted:The recruiter responded by saying they'll have a decision by Monday 6/23 Call the recruiter.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:14
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I did try calling the recruiter yesterday like five times but the line always goes directly to her voicemail without even ringing. Yes, I did leave a voice message. I don't think I'd want to burn bridges with this company. This is one of the leaders in their therapeutic area and has a large presence in where I currently live. Edit: if I don't hear a firm yes or no from the recruiter by 11 am today, I plan on calling the hiring manager to get a straight answer. Or is this a bad idea? Hand of the King fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 14:38
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I think I understand your frustration, but she's likely given you the best answer she can and the decision is out of her hands. Maybe she's waiting on the hiring manager or even another candidate. Calling the hiring manager if you have his info isn't a bad idea to at least see what he has to say, though the recruiter won't like you going around her (is she external or internal?) Id probably move on because you're likely not the top candidate (if you were they'd have given you indication), but maybe it's worth turning down the other offer or asking for more time to think about it.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:01
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Xandu posted:I think I understand your frustration, but she's likely given you the best answer she can and the decision is out of her hands. Maybe she's waiting on the hiring manager or even another candidate. Calling the hiring manager if you have his info isn't a bad idea to at least see what he has to say, though the recruiter won't like you going around her (is she external or internal?) Id probably move on because you're likely not the top candidate (if you were they'd have given you indication), but maybe it's worth turning down the other offer or asking for more time to think about it. The recruiter is internal. I don't think I can extend the offer. The recruiter who made the offer on Tuesday said she would like a reply by EOB Wednesday (again, it was a verbal offer and she wants a verbal OK from me) but I asked for EOB Friday, and we settled on EOB Thursday. So I've already asked for an extension. I'd hate to lose out on this other company and not see what they could've offered. I know it's probably inappropriate to go around the recruiter but the hiring manager did give me his business card and told me to call him for whatever questions...
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Jun 19, 2014 15:58
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My promotion was finally approved with a significant raise, YAY! I soon will be having directs, BOOO!
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Jun 19, 2014 16:24
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Hand of the King posted:I know it's probably inappropriate to go around the recruiter but the hiring manager did give me his business card and told me to call him for whatever questions... Then go for it, it couldn't hurt at this point. You should be prepared to walk away from one of the opportunities, but there's also a good chance he will give you an answer.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:00
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I had a phone interview recently where the guy straight out asked me how much I was making at my current job. My first instinct was to say "gently caress you, how much do YOU make?", but just as I managed to suppress that urge I just blurted out how much I actually make. My question is, what would the appropriate response here be? Luckily for me the dude was cool and said, "Well lucky for you, this pays significantly more." He totally could've just reduced the pay scale.
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Jun 20, 2014 16:28
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Ghostnuke posted:I had a phone interview recently where the guy straight out asked me how much I was making at my current job. My first instinct was to say "gently caress you, how much do YOU make?", but just as I managed to suppress that urge I just blurted out how much I actually make. "I've been asked by my employer not to disclose that information." There's a very real chance that he lowballed you.
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Jun 20, 2014 16:42
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I always just tell them I prefer not to discuss compensation at this stage.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:02
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Ghostnuke posted:I had a phone interview recently where the guy straight out asked me how much I was making at my current job. My first instinct was to say "gently caress you, how much do YOU make?", but just as I managed to suppress that urge I just blurted out how much I actually make. You didn't get lucky at all, you messed up one of the few things you have absolute control over. "This job pays significantly more" does not give you a concrete figure. If the hiring budget is for $20k over your current salary and you've disclosed your present salary, $5k is "significantly more" than you make now, but is $15k lower than they were willing to pay. This is where the guy earns his money. Now if you do get an offer, you've got an uphill battle to fight if you want to negotiate that offer up, because they'll be trotting out your current salary and the improvement you're getting every time you try to nudge it up. That's not to say that you should despair, but you do have to grow a bigger spine and actually act consistent with the advice you already know from reading this thread. Come up with a target for this position; the best case would be if you hadn't disclosed a number and had instead managed to get them to offer up what they're looking to hire at, but now imagine the most generous "significantly more" value you could realistically come up with, and then tack 5% on top of that. NEVER DISCUSS YOUR PRESENT SALARY AGAIN. This doesn't just mean don't say the number again. It means never discuss it. When you say what you want to make and they try to anchor a lower offer based on your present salary, you need to become deaf. Discuss your merits at the position, discuss comparable salaries, do not discuss your present salary. BE READY TO WALK. If you aren't ready to walk they're ultimately going to wear you down until you're ready to accept whatever they're offering. It's not hard, but if you can't actually adhere to the few fundamental rules that we re-iterate over and over in this thread, you're not gonna end up much better off than either of the dudes in your avatar.
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Jun 20, 2014 18:28
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You guys are definitely right. He did give me the pay scale though, and it's like 20k more than I make at the low end. He said my experience would put me in at higher than the bottom end. He very well might be bullshitting me, but I'd be happy with it even so.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:05
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Hand of the King posted:The recruiter is internal. I don't think I can extend the offer. The recruiter who made the offer on Tuesday said she would like a reply by EOB Wednesday (again, it was a verbal offer and she wants a verbal OK from me) but I asked for EOB Friday, and we settled on EOB Thursday. So I've already asked for an extension. I'd hate to lose out on this other company and not see what they could've offered. Update: Company B's hiring manager said it would take more than another week before he could give me a decision. Although it's a better position, I had to withdraw from the hiring process. I took Company A's offer (the position is not as good as Company's B, but the company itself is a much better company with more growth potential) at $80k/year with $10,000 sign-on bonus! This means I'll be making $17,500 more than my current position - a 28% increase! They were firm about the zero wiggle room on the base salary but said they could go higher on the sign-on bonus. I simply asked, "I'd love to accept the offer but I would like an increase on the bonus" and they came back with $10k, which is what I had in mind. The benefits are comparable to my current employer's so I'm happy with them. I now feel like I'm finally being compensated fairly for my work and value. 
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Jun 21, 2014 00:23
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Hand of the King posted:Update: Company B's hiring manager said it would take more than another week before he could give me a decision. Although it's a better position, I had to withdraw from the hiring process. I took Company A's offer (the position is not as good as Company's B, but the company itself is a much better company with more growth potential) at $80k/year with $10,000 sign-on bonus! This means I'll be making $17,500 more than my current position - a 28% increase! They were firm about the zero wiggle room on the base salary but said they could go higher on the sign-on bonus. I simply asked, "I'd love to accept the offer but I would like an increase on the bonus" and they came back with $10k, which is what I had in mind. The benefits are comparable to my current employer's so I'm happy with them. edit: also, update your thread 
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Jun 21, 2014 02:23
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Was just offered 85k. I'm interested and it sounds nice, but I'd like more as I don't think there is much upward mobility at the company. What's a reasonable number to counter? Looking for something in the range they can approve it without major paperwork on their side.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:55
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Mugaaz posted:Was just offered 85k. I'm interested and it sounds nice, but I'd like more as I don't think there is much upward mobility at the company. What's a reasonable number to counter? Looking for something in the range they can approve it without major paperwork on their side. Another $5,000 would be a non-negligible amount to negotiate, but what if the median salary for this job in your area is $100,000? You'd be making more than what they offered, but a lot less than what you could reasonably expect. In negotiations, context matters, and you haven't explained the context to us.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:06
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Uranium 235 posted:Well, that really depends. Where does $85k fall on the payscale for this job in your area? How much experience do you have? Do you have an exceptional background in that profession? What is your BATNA? I don't know the answer to the first question. I mean, there is stuff like glassdoor and the like, but its hard to say how accurate they are due to lack of context. Also, the ranges tend to be crazy and inexplicable a lot of the time. I understand the relevance of your question, but I just don't know of a meaningful way to answer it. My experience is probably avg to below avg, my background is exceptionally strong. BATNA is my current job is fine, it pays less but its ultra low stress and I'm under no real pressure. I anticipate a second offer from another company as well. I'd instantly take the current offer at @ 90k.
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Jun 22, 2014 01:36
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This may be the wrong thread for my question, but here goes: I've just accepted an offer for a new job. It's better hours, in a better location, and seems a lot more interesting than my current job. However, the new company is a cash-poor startup at the moment (though I think they'll be successful-it's not an internet startup or anything too crazy). The base salary is roughly the same as my current job, but there's no bonuses or overtime, which some years almost doubles my salary at the current job. I hate overtime, which is the biggest reason I'm leaving. My current employer seems to be in denial that I'm leaving. I'm well-liked, and my department head wants to talk Monday about other jobs in the company that I could have because he's "not going to let me quit". I think I'm well past negotiating, since I already accepted the other offer. So what do I say? I'm going to miss the extra money, and while he may be able to offer a job with a little less overtime, it will probably still be bad, and it will certainly still be far less exciting than the startup. I have a lot in savings, so I don't really need the current salary. Any advice?
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Jun 22, 2014 07:04
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I don't think you really need advice. You already accepted an offer and it doesn't sound like you want to stay. Don't burn any bridges, but clearly explain to your boss that you found an opportunity that you couldn't pass up and have already accepted the offer and will be leaving on x date.
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Jun 22, 2014 16:26
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I would let him try to convince you just because it will probably make him feel better for trying and you don't have anything to lose by hearing his pitch.
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Jun 22, 2014 16:29
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Lexifantastik posted:This may be the wrong thread for my question, but here goes: I've just accepted an offer for a new job. It's better hours, in a better location, and seems a lot more interesting than my current job. However, the new company is a cash-poor startup at the moment (though I think they'll be successful-it's not an internet startup or anything too crazy). The base salary is roughly the same as my current job, but there's no bonuses or overtime, which some years almost doubles my salary at the current job. I hate overtime, which is the biggest reason I'm leaving. I'd hear the pitch, but emphasize that you're leaving because you want the chance to be part of a team creating something new and that you're in the financial position to do so with the new company. Tell him you've enjoyed working there and offer to help in the transition however you can so long as it doesn't impact making a good first impression at the new company. The idea is that if the start-up implodes, you can go back confidently to your old company without looking like you're slinking back with your tail between your legs.
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Jun 22, 2014 19:27
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I've got to say after all that stress of negotiating it ended up not being worth anything. I had another job offer come in which was the amount I was looking for in the city I wanted to live in. So, I came here to say that while this thread is great I think one of the best bits of advice this thread can give is to keep job hunting even if you have a good job. After a year at this place I plan to start job hunting again just to see what's out there. Thanks for all the help, thread!
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Jun 26, 2014 05:02
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swenblack posted:It seems like you've already decided on your course of action. I'd add though, that start-ups often implode for any number of reasons. Even if they're well run, the long term success rate is well below 50%. In my experience people who leave a company and then come back a few years later make way more money than when they left. So keep that in mind as you exit gracefully. Leave the door open in case the start up doesn't pan out.
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Jun 28, 2014 11:30
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corkskroo posted:In my experience people who leave a company and then come back a few years later make way more money than when they left. So keep that in mind as you exit gracefully. Leave the door open in case the start up doesn't pan out. The only time I've ever seen that happpen is when the original company headhunted the employee back. In any other case you're always going to be at a significant disadvantage.
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Jun 28, 2014 12:04
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corkskroo posted:In my experience people who leave a company and then come back a few years later make way more money than when they left. So keep that in mind as you exit gracefully. Leave the door open in case the start up doesn't pan out. Yeah, definitely don't burn bridges. Several years ago, my wife and I left our respective companies at about the same time, both on good terms. Six months later, her company begs her to come back and offers a 50% raise. Two years after that, the new company I work for isn't doing so hot, so I reached out to my old manager to let him know I might be looking soon and I was offered a 30% raise to come back.
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Jun 28, 2014 12:41
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Rudager posted:The only time I've ever seen that happpen is when the original company headhunted the employee back. In any other case you're always going to be at a significant disadvantage. I haven't ever gone back to a company myself. But I'm in a banking and it's small world where people just move between banks forever. Actually leaving a bank you like to make more money elsewhere, then returning to the original company for even more money is pretty much the
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Jun 28, 2014 16:32
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Looking for some advice. I verbally accepted a defense related job for 68k/year 6 weeks ago. First "real" job since graduating with MS in materials engineering. I had no internships so it was a struggle to even get this offer. I have been getting cleared by the government during the past 6 weeks. After starting the clearance I've been working at a small engineering consulting company making ~50k/year. In the 6 weeks I have done a budget and realized the cost of living increase for the defense job is pretty undesirable (NY vs Texas). I know I am dumb for not having done this before. I know it's pretty douchey to say, thanks for spending 10K to clear me but I am looking for 5% more? I am trying to evaluate if the leverage that I have as a result of their investment is morally wrong. I consider myself a decent person and realize that the company in good faith has already invested in me and I, in good faith, have verbally accepted. I am considering trying to negotiate from the standpoint that I will basically have completed an internship by the time clearance comes in. Edit: I think the reason i'm thinking of trying to negotiate is that I've had 6 weeks to think about it and think i'm being underpaid. I don't think it's the end of the world but I obviously would like to make more. Hollis Brown fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 28, 2014 |
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Jun 28, 2014 18:55
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Hollis Brown posted:Looking for some advice. I verbally accepted a defense related job for 68k/year 6 weeks ago. First "real" job since graduating with MS in materials engineering. I had no internships so it was a struggle to even get this offer. If you're serious about defense, your best bet is to get cleared (check), get your MS (check), grind out four year of experience, and change companies. At that point, you're worth $100k-$120k. The barrier to entry depresses entry level salaries, but it works out for you if you can make it through. All that being said, you still have some knobs to turn, and the company has sunk considerable costs in to you already. I wouldn't reopen negotiations on salary, but relocation expenses are fair game unless you've signed something saying otherwise. Another possibility would be educational benefits or a pre-defined raise when you get your SCI.
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Jun 29, 2014 04:07
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Hollis Brown posted:Looking for some advice. I verbally accepted a defense related job for 68k/year 6 weeks ago. First "real" job since graduating with MS in materials engineering. I had no internships so it was a struggle to even get this offer. Where in NY are you going to work? NYC, Long Island, or somewhere upstate? That makes a huge difference in cost of living. I live in NYC and I can tell you that your salary will let you live comfortably in the city. When I moved here, I started at $90k, and I support a wife who is a full-time student and doesn't work. Our quality of life is pretty good and we're able to save a lot of money. I was also technically being underpaid when I started in NYC, but I've increased my salary by 24% since moving here less than two years ago. Uranium 235 fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 04:26
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Earth posted:I've got to say after all that stress of negotiating it ended up not being worth anything. I had another job offer come in which was the amount I was looking for in the city I wanted to live in. So, I came here to say that while this thread is great I think one of the best bits of advice this thread can give is to keep job hunting even if you have a good job. After a year at this place I plan to start job hunting again just to see what's out there. Thanks for all the help, thread! I'd be careful how often you do that. When your resume starts to be full of new jobs every one or two years new employers are going to start to get reluctant about bringing you in.
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Jun 29, 2014 04:48
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Okay, so I'm in a frustrating job offer situation. I've got an MA and have worked at a federal agency for the past 4 years. It has extremely toxic management and a horrible institutional culture; it's ranked near the bottom of the Employee Viewpoint Survey that almost all federal agencies take. It's become clear that I've hit a ceiling and I don't want to spend a whole career where I'm at. I've been looking to make a jump to a different agency or possibly a private sector job. I saw a posting with GAO for their 2-year development program. I'm overqualified for it, but it fit my background perfectly and the work sounds MUCH more interesting than my current job. They use a pay band system rather than the standard GS scale most agencies use and the first pay band range was huge ($43,000-$88,000). I make around $75,000 now, so I figured that there was room to work on starting salary. The program also offers a raise every 6 months during those 2 years of up to 7 percent depending on performance. I interviewed, thought I did fairly well, and apparently I did because I got an offer from an HR person in DC a few days later...at $53,000. That's actually less than what I started at in my current job out of graduate school. I'm now wondering if HR just offered the same salary to every person without adjusting for experience or education. I plan to respond on Monday asking if the starting salary is negotiable and laying out how I more than meet the job requirements. The government is odd about negotiation (frequently it's not possible), but it does happen. I've heard of people being hired on under the GS system at Step 10 of a pay grade because they made more in a previous job. It seems like the whole point of a pay band system is to have more flexibility. Does anyone have advice as to how to phrase this? Part of me has the naive hope that this HR being stupid. If they refuse to budge, I'm going to turn it down and keep looking. I guess I'm disappointed, this job genuinely seems like it could be interesting.
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Jun 29, 2014 04:52
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swenblack posted:Woo-hoo! Finally a question I'm more qualified to answer than DE or KI. In this industry, being cleared is your ticket to job security and a significantly higher income, so long as the clearance is an SCI. Renegotiating after your clearance has been initiated would be a significant act of bad faith. Unless you're expected to live in downtown Manhattan, your salary is actually on par with industry average for someone with a MS and no experience. Here in DC, the market is $65k-$70k for someone with your skill set. Thank you for your advice. It's DOE clearance so I don't think I will ever have the chance to get SCI. I don't know if DOE clearance adds as much value as it seems like you are talking about with the SCI, as reported salaries for senior engineers is around 80-90k. I may have to go to industry for better. I will be getting full relocation, and 2 months temp housing if I want which sounds pretty good. Uranium 235 posted:It's not a good idea to try to renegotiate your salary after you've accepted the offer, especially after they helped with your security clearance. That would not be a good start to your professional relationship with your employer. It's going to be in Schenectady. I am sick to death of apartments noise and want a garage for the winter so I am looking at more expensive options like a rental house.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:27
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Hollis Brown posted:It's going to be in Schenectady. Ouch. At least rent should be cheap. Colonie will probably be cheaper than Nisky while being about equally nice. Your employer has a pretty good work environment as well, or so I've heard from acquaintances that work there (I assume they're known by a four letter acronym unless there's some second source of jobs that require a DOE clearance in Niskayuna).
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Jun 29, 2014 06:55
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I'd be careful how often you do that. When your resume starts to be full of new jobs every one or two years new employers are going to start to get reluctant about bringing you in. Not really I would argue that sticking in the same company and stagnating is worse than changing jobs every few years. Not to mention if the multiple jobs gives you a skillset that allows you hit the ground running with minimal training or oversight from more senior employees. In today's business world places pretty accept that employment for life is a thing in the past.
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Jun 29, 2014 08:48
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