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Leif. posted:I think the problem is that people see botes and think "Oh, OK, must spam a CIWS blob or a cluster of ASM planes" and forget that botes can be used to great effect against land targets. In a recent game with DrinksAlot and some other goons (I think DonglordActual and a pubbie) I was on Botes duty, against a team of REDFOR tryhards. Turns out botes saved the day -- they did no Navy at all, and so after putting a few points into an initial naval force of 2 Super Hornets, a Lafayette, and 3 Po-hangs, we quickly realized that we didn't need any more points in botes and that we were losing on land. My super hornets shot down Su-25s one after another, while the Po-hangs went over to a control point along the coast and began slaying all their AA net. The Lafayette pulled up as close as it could and shelled out their CV, and between the 4 ships and my super hornets, the sky was clear for the A-10's and Cobras to clean house. In fact, the only reason we lost is because our pubbie bought 6 Strb boats and sat them offshore doing nothing (presumably putting a hellfire net around the enemy naval call-in) instead of sending them upriver to kill tanks and AA. By the time he listened up and did that, we were too late and lost on time at something like 50 points behind. I don't think boats are ineffective, as yeah they can dominate zones in which they can shell because their guns are ridiculously powerful. I think botes are extremely tactically uninteresting, though, and have primarily boring gameplay. No terrain, no real spotting, super long range weapons with a defensive mechanism that is really RNG dependent and demands you blob up.
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Jun 28, 2014 12:00
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Yeah, I don't mean to say botes are breaking the game now or anything, but they still feel like a weak part of the game.Leif. posted:I think the problem is that people see botes and think "Oh, OK, must spam a CIWS blob or a cluster of ASM planes" and forget that botes can be used to great effect against land targets. In a recent game with DrinksAlot and some other goons (I think DonglordActual and a pubbie) I was on Botes duty, against a team of REDFOR tryhards. Turns out botes saved the day -- they did no Navy at all, and so after putting a few points into an initial naval force of 2 Super Hornets, a Lafayette, and 3 Po-hangs, we quickly realized that we didn't need any more points in botes and that we were losing on land. My super hornets shot down Su-25s one after another, while the Po-hangs went over to a control point along the coast and began slaying all their AA net. The Lafayette pulled up as close as it could and shelled out their CV, and between the 4 ships and my super hornets, the sky was clear for the A-10's and Cobras to clean house. In fact, the only reason we lost is because our pubbie bought 6 Strb boats and sat them offshore doing nothing (presumably putting a hellfire net around the enemy naval call-in) instead of sending them upriver to kill tanks and AA. By the time he listened up and did that, we were too late and lost on time at something like 50 points behind. I completely understand what you're saying, and you're totally right -- well used, naval superiority can allow you to put pressure on the enemy in ways that would otherwise not be possible. It extends your AA net and denies the opponent, and if you happen to have any sort of amphibious units then a coordinated effort can win you a game by building a beach-head. That being said, what you basically said above was "Just put 800 points into boats at the start and, if you enemy spent nothing, you'll be in a great position" which can really be said about absolutely any lane on a map.
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Jun 28, 2014 14:51
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Is the community for Red Dragon lively enough for a scrub to join in at this point? I've tried playing Airland Battle a few times but I got completely annihilated when I tried.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:43
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Raften posted:Is the community for Red Dragon lively enough for a scrub to join in at this point? I've tried playing Airland Battle a few times but I got completely annihilated when I tried. Yes.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:54
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There are idiots on, yeah. Not as many as there used to be but it's hardly all pros.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:55
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Arglebargle III posted:I think there should be maps that diagnose players with latent mental disorders. You could just explain what you mean instead of being a dick. Not everyone knows every detail of RD so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing something. Here's a hint: repeating "canals lakes or oceans" is not actually much help. Was RD changed so every map was like that? I didn't know that. Otherwise, can any naval unit be spawned in canals and lakes? If so, then having canals, lakes or oceans on any map has nothing to do with the original discussion.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:22
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh BTW in a pub game with Donglord, some random guy's HERO OF THE SOVIET UNION MiG-31M I checked the replay on slo mo, he oneshot twice. The first missile killed one Rafale and splash damaged the other and the second finished the second Rafale off. The third missile got airborne but it didn't even get halfway there before both Rafales were eating dirt.
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Jun 28, 2014 20:36
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landed three shots in a row on a pair of Rafales without taking a single return shot. At 45% accuracy up against 50% ECM and a pair of Rafales barreling towards him expecting an easy kill that may be the luckiest pilot I have seen to date.
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I love it when pubbies don't understand that Lafayettes have abysmal cwis relative to other ships so they see the cool gun and 8 Exocets (without understanding the ship has to turn completely around to shoot half of them) and use them as frontline brawlers. They just eat poo poo if the enemy has a dece ASM force. OHPs aren't as bad as people give them credit for; individually and unsupported with CSRs they suck, but in a group (like four or more), they are great. 16 harpoons that are fired off a turret on the front of the ship with a phalanx and mid-mounted cannon give good flexibility. Justin Tyme fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jun 28, 2014 |
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Jun 28, 2014 23:18
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Is it worth picking up ALB at this stage? I've never played anything in this series before and it looks interesting, but I'm not that keen on spending $25 to find out whether or not I like the series  I'm mostly planning on doing single-player - having a wife and a young baby means I don't get much of a chance for an hour where I can't pause a game!
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Jun 29, 2014 00:04
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There are so many other games that aren't Wargame that you could be playing in that case. Wargame is a multiplayer game with tacked on single player. Do not buy Wargame for the single player.
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Jun 29, 2014 00:12
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You might buy Wargame for the single player when it's down to say $10 but by then it will be patched to the point where the singleplayer is unplayabe, like W:EE now and to a lesser extend ALB.
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Jun 29, 2014 00:16
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Fair enough, if none of them are worth bothering with for single-player then I'll just skip em altogether.
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Jun 29, 2014 00:42
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I don't think I've ever won a game on Plunjing Valley starting from E, and I don't think I've ever lost a game starting from C. Coincidence?
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Jun 29, 2014 07:57
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The OP didn't have any deck listings, what's a good all-round BLUFOR deck? US is fine, blue dragons are fine, I'm just wanting to give the factions tryouts.
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Jun 29, 2014 11:07
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Nuclear Pogostick posted:The OP didn't have any deck listings, what's a good all-round BLUFOR deck? US is fine, blue dragons are fine, I'm just wanting to give the factions tryouts. West Germany and France are good as either Eurocorp or individually. Rolands, Gepards, Mistral trucks, HOT and TOW vehicles, really nice French choppers, a smattering of infantry with West German mechanized being a very potent deck for blufor; the only think you really lack are good strike aircraft as IIRC you don't get anything with either a rear end-tearing rotary cannon (think MIG-27, SU-25, or A-10) or AGMs. Their bomber selection is a bit anemic too especially compared to the Big Gay Bomber (F-111C) or F-15D. The best they get is like a Tornado IDS with 4 500kg bombs or a Mirage with 8 400kg bombs. Justin Tyme fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 21:55
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Justin Tyme posted:I love it when pubbies don't understand that Lafayettes have abysmal cwis relative to other ships so they see the cool gun and 8 Exocets (without understanding the ship has to turn completely around to shoot half of them) and use them as frontline brawlers. They just eat poo poo if the enemy has a dece ASM force. The benefits of the Lafayette are solely its gun and its stealth. It should be a frontline brawler so it can use the gun. I forget where, but there was a post that pointed out that it has a much faster TTK with the gun than other ships. The failure is when people use it in a CIWS blob rather than charging them in.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:05
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Neat
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Jun 30, 2014 03:32
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Leif. posted:The benefits of the Lafayette are solely its gun and its stealth. It should be a frontline brawler so it can use the gun. I forget where, but there was a post that pointed out that it has a much faster TTK with the gun than other ships. The failure is when people use it in a CIWS blob rather than charging them in. I should have phrased it better, people tend to assume they have good enough CWIS to be able to charge in and swat away ASM volleys on their own since they're big fancy looking expensive ships. Gotta get into range before you can use that gun, and ya gotta have some Cham Su Ri's in front to get there safely against Nanushka and Tarantul blobs (which are pretty drat flexible for being non-capital ships) It's infuriating when you try to do a combined effort naval thing on like a 10v10 and you call in all the Lafayettes you can only to have pubbies not effectively use the Cham Su Ri's they called in and let them sit BEHIND the Lafayettes. You can't get into gun range if you are just going to get your bridge missiled through due to lack of CWIS support on the charge up there. (comedy option: the failure is when people use anything other than F-111Gs and Tram Intruders) Speaking of, we did a not-so-scientific test during a match and Tram Intruders, due to their lower speed, evac further away from enemy ships than F-111Gs while carrying the same amount of Harpoons. Justin Tyme fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 09:38
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I think that most of the CIWS coverage on a Cham Su Ri is actually towards the stern of the vessel. That definitely complicates matters for charging in while maintaining CIWS protection to the point that I'm not sure it's totally worth direct naval engagement over ASUW aircraft which can at least limit their exposure rather than sitting around and trading shots.
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Jun 30, 2014 09:48
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Justin Tyme posted:West Germany and France are good as either Eurocorp or individually. Rolands, Gepards, Mistral trucks, HOT and TOW vehicles, really nice French choppers, a smattering of infantry with West German mechanized being a very potent deck for blufor; the only think you really lack are good strike aircraft as IIRC you don't get anything with either a rear end-tearing rotary cannon (think MIG-27, SU-25, or A-10) or AGMs. The Peace Rhine isn't the best AGM plane, but still good enough in most cases.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:30
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Justin Tyme posted:West Germany and France are good as either Eurocorp or individually. Rolands, Gepards, Mistral trucks, HOT and TOW vehicles, really nice French choppers, a smattering of infantry with West German mechanized being a very potent deck for blufor; the only think you really lack are good strike aircraft as IIRC you don't get anything with either a rear end-tearing rotary cannon (think MIG-27, SU-25, or A-10) or AGMs. Their bomber selection is a bit anemic too especially compared to the Big Gay Bomber (F-111C) or F-15D. The best they get is like a Tornado IDS with 4 500kg bombs or a Mirage with 8 400kg bombs. Bombers are what those decks really lack, for sure. In terms of AGM planes, both the Peace Rhine and Super Etendard are pretty good. Super Etendards aren't quite as godly as they were in ALB but I've still got some excellent usage out of them.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:13
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Unless they changed it, which is probably likely since the last time I bothered to check, the IDS was a carbon copy of the AU F/A-18A which was up there for best utility bomber in the game, if a little pricey. It drops the 83s together, giving the punch of 1.5 1000s on average, with 9Ms and 30% ECM. The line bombers, like the mirage V, were significantly less dense. Also, EU gets Cesars, which can do point targets pretty freely without the (open) risk of loss. E: on a loaner phone so live w/ the grammar/spelling atrocities tia Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 13:42
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The Peace Rhine is alright; it's a little disappointing because it's strictly inferior to the Maverick-Tornado it replaces, but it's a serviceable little way to put AGMs on a target.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Justin Tyme posted:(comedy option: the failure is when people use anything other than F-111Gs and Tram Intruders) Super Hornets are worthwhile as well, despite having less payload -- dat enormous ECM and AMRAAMs give them a lot of utility, and they rarely ever get hit on the evac.
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Jun 30, 2014 17:40
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Superbugs are really nice because they're a strong fighter that can counter just about anything redfor can put up and on mixed maps aren't wasted points if the enemy doesn't go botesing.
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Jun 30, 2014 19:04
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Jun 30, 2014 23:12
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If i could I would have a deck full of helicopters and dogs. Probably the dogs would move superfast in woods and then if they get shot it can rain Mi-8's everywhere.
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Jul 1, 2014 00:31
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I've noticed some abnormalities in my combat reports - is it possible for crashing aircraft to hurt units on the ground? Also can someone suggest some interesting Redfor decks? I feel like there just isn't as much weird poo poo to mess with as Redfor compared to Blue.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:00
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:I've noticed some abnormalities in my combat reports - is it possible for crashing aircraft to hurt units on the ground? Also can someone suggest some interesting Redfor decks? I feel like there just isn't as much weird poo poo to mess with as Redfor compared to Blue. Yeah, crashing aircraft/helos can kill ground units.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:02
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Chantilly Say posted:Yeah, crashing aircraft/helos can kill ground units. Happens a lot when I overextend and my infantry transport choppers come under fire. They unload the dudes fine but get shot down while taking off again and do a backflip right onto my mans 
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Jul 1, 2014 01:53
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Chantilly Say posted:Yeah, crashing aircraft/helos can kill ground units. So can missed shots. Someone posted a video a while back of a aa missile killing a CV because it went way off target and landed on it.
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Jul 1, 2014 02:46
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I have had crashing planes slam into my AA way too many times.
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Jul 1, 2014 02:54
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This was actually a huge problem with Naval units as well, as Ship-to-Ship missiles could lose lock if the target were destroyed/move out of range, causing them to fly off wildly near the launching ship and (as often as not) slamming into a neighboring escort. Fun times.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:19
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Shot the poo poo with FLX today. The tank rebalance looks loving sweet, from the top-tier we've discussd. There may be alot more motivation to take Armored Themed decks now.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:25
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Dandywalken posted:Shot the poo poo with FLX today. The tank rebalance looks loving sweet, from the top-tier we've discussd. There may be alot more motivation to take Armored Themed decks now. How similar is it to uralmod? e: for those who haven't seen it yet  That last tank in the t-55 line could be the m6 variant if the tank re-balances are really that radical. Stairmaster fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 03:30
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I think its the am2b DYNA or whatever, i think it was in the units thread. Just ERA and ammo I think, not the 72 turret wedged on. The truly important part to that T-72 though is the fact that 30mm is mounted like this: http://www.militaryfoto.sk/image/07sahara2/33-t72m2.jpg Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 13:21
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So it will shoot sometimes. Coaxial autocannons  !
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Jul 1, 2014 13:45
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Arglebargle III posted:So it will shoot sometimes. Coaxial autocannons Going by the link above, hopefully not. I'm not sure it rotates, but regardless it should be separate enough to fire independently. The game models roof mounts just fine, including the Abrams 2. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 13:52
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:
The last T-55 is just a T-55 with DYNA ERA, basically just a Czech T-55 AMV. In any case I expect that the T-72 Moderna model will be pretty badass.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:54
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OctaMurk posted:The last T-55 is just a T-55 with DYNA ERA, basically just a Czech T-55 AMV. In any case I expect that the T-72 Moderna model will be pretty badass. My favorite in the DLC.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:54
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