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Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:32
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Edit: nevermind, took a word to mean a different word.
axelblaze fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 03:33
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face. He's one of the best and most important filmmakers of the second half of the 20th century and beyond. But if Videodrome doesn't do it for you, try either his pure genre fare (of which The Fly is the best, but The Brood, Scanners and Shivers are also very great) or his post-genre fare (a phase that probably started in earnest with Dead Ringers and maybe reached its apotheosis with A History of Violence and Eastern Promises). Dude has several different phases that are all very distinct from eachother but still all feel uniquely Cronenberg. I think in terms of pure attitude he's the best descendent of Kubrick. edit: I forgot The Dead Zone too, which just to push the Kubrick comparison I'll go ahead and say is a better Stephen King movie than The Shining. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 03:36
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face. Seen The Fly?
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Jun 30, 2014 03:39
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axleblaze posted:Why? I don't care if people like you. That's an obvious lie.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:39
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face. He fucks a tv dawg
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Jun 30, 2014 03:41
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Cronenberg is sitting at the typewriter wondering how to symbolize that James Wood is being brainwashed by media to become violent. "Uhh... I'll have somebody literally stick a videotape inside James Wood. Yeah, that'll do it. " Edit: I'll backpedal on criticizing Cronenberg, I just don't like Videodrome. I'll watch Scanners next, I vaguely have fond memories of watching if when I was young. Haven't seen the Fly either, will fix that. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 03:42
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Steve Yun posted:Cronenberg is sitting at the typewriter wondering how to symbolize that James Wood is being brainwashed by media to become violent. "Uhh... I'll have somebody literally stick a videotape inside James Wood. Yeah, that'll do it. " Name me another movie where anybody sticks a videotape inside anybody. One of the chief values of cinema, to me, is showing me something that I have never seen, that nobody has ever seen and maybe nobody has even imagined. Cronenberg does that. Videodrome definitely does that. And maybe that's not your thing, which is fair. But if you're asking why Cronenberg appeals to people, that's the number one reason Cronenberg appeals to people. Even in his straight crime/drama pictures, dude has consistently tapped into imagery that pretty much nobody else has tapped into except in the case of directly ripping him off. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 03:44
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:edit: I forgot The Dead Zone too, which just to push the Kubrick comparison I'll go ahead and say is a better Stephen King movie than The Shining. I love Cronenberg's stuff and all, but let's not say things we can't take back. Uncle Boogeyman posted:Name me another movie where anybody sticks a videotape inside anybody. This is all stuff I agree with, though, I really like how he's not afraid to go with imagery other directors might shy away from out of fear of hokeyness or not being safe. The VCR vagina might be unsubtle but it really works. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 03:50
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Yeah everyone knows the best Steven King movie is the one with the truck.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:52
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mr. stefan posted:I love Cronenberg's stuff and all, but let's not say things we can't take back. To be fair, I'm on record as not particularly caring for The Shining. I've come to appreciate it more in recent years, but it still doesn't even crack my top 10 horror movies of the 1980s. Probably not even the top 20. mr. stefan posted:This is all stuff I agree with, though, I really like how he's not afraid to go with imagery other directors might shy away from out of fear of hokeyness or not being safe. The VCR vagina might be unsubtle but it really works. Subtlety is one of the few things that is simultaneously under and overrated.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:52
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Speaking of unsubtle poo poo I'm watching the original The Day The Earth Stood Still and god drat "I don't care about the rest of the world" is a stone cold line delivery.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:54
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face. It's not a clever movie, but it's incredibly well put-together, and uses unique visual imagery that has since become iconic. Edit: the bodily transformations near the end are dope as hell
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Jun 30, 2014 03:56
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Yeah there nothing inherently good about subtlety. It can be good or bad. It's not like something becomes better as it gets more subtle. Same in the other direction.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:57
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I honestly think there's too much emphasis put on subtlety. Some of my favorite movies have all the subtlety of a punch to the face.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:59
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axleblaze posted:I honestly think there's too much emphasis put on subtlety. Some of my favorite movies have all the subtlety of a punch to the face. I fully agree with this statement.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:03
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face. What do you think that blunt message is?
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Jun 30, 2014 04:04
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I think the only Cronenberg film I've seen is Existenz. How does that compare to his other work?
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Jun 30, 2014 04:06
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Lord Krangdar posted:What do you think that blunt message is? Behold the new flesh, duh.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:08
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axleblaze posted:
Like this entire forum isn't full of contrarians.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:09
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Yaws posted:I think the only Cronenberg film I've seen is Existenz. How does that compare to his other work? It's less subtle
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Jun 30, 2014 04:10
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Steve Yun posted:Cronenberg is sitting at the typewriter wondering how to symbolize that James Wood is being brainwashed by media to become violent. "Uhh... I'll have somebody literally stick a videotape inside James Wood. Yeah, that'll do it. " Why do you make this sound like a bad thing?
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Jun 30, 2014 04:17
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I don't know that the takeaway from Videodrome is that media makes you violent.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:20
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Steve Yun posted:Cronenberg is sitting at the typewriter wondering how to symbolize that James Wood is being brainwashed by media to become violent. "Uhh... I'll have somebody literally stick a videotape inside James Wood. Yeah, that'll do it. " You missed a key point, ironically the actually bluntest part: All his exposure to violent pornography doesn't make Max violent. The people who want to censor his "scum show" do, for their own twisted sense of moral progress. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 04:23
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't know that the takeaway from Videodrome is that media makes you violent. Cronenberg was reacting to people who thought that about his early films, and IIRC especially the controversy over their government funding.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:24
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone wanna defend Cronenberg to me? Videodrome is artless and guileless. There's no cleverness to its message. It's just clumsy, blunt symbolism mashed in the audience's face.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:26
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Scanners is okay. A History of Violence is okay. That's all the Cronenbergs I've seen.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:30
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Speaking of Cronenberg, has anyone read the comic History of Violence is based on? It's not very good but there's a big dumb twist where the bad guys have kept the main character's friend alive tortured and limbless etc... For like 20 years and when Cron was announced as director I assumed that was going to be a big thing in the film because of you know excessively graphic body horror and all But it's not even in the movie. I thought that was great, such a departure from what I expected of the guy. I god drat hate spoiler tags.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:32
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Yeah, History of Violence is terrific. Viggo's best role, too.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:34
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FishBulb posted:Speaking of Cronenberg, has anyone read the comic History of Violence is based on? It's not very good but there's a big dumb twist where the bad guys have kept the main character's friend alive tortured and limbless etc... For like 20 years and when Cron was announced as director I assumed that was going to be a big thing in the film because of you know excessively graphic body horror and all But it's not even in the movie. I thought that was great, such a departure from what I expected of the guy. I actually think that the comic is very good (when you get the guy who created Judge Dredd to do a comic with the guy who did all the classic Cannibal Corpse album covers, how could it not be very good?) but I agree that the movie is better - one of Cronenberg's best, in fact. morestuff posted:Yeah, History of Violence is terrific. Viggo's best role, too. "I should've killed you back in Philly" is one of my favorite line readings ever.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:35
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Cronenberg has claimed he didn't even know the graphic novel existed until after directing the film.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:35
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Scanners is so loving goddamn good. The mock-futuristic mall and the other weird, cluttered sets, Stephen Lack's Meg Foster-esque nonperformance, Ironside doing his best Nicholson in The Shining, evil symposiums, it's all there.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:38
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I actually think that the comic is very good (when you get the guy who created Judge Dredd to do a comic with the guy who did all the classic Cannibal Corpse album covers, how could it not be very good?) but I agree that the movie is better - one of Cronenberg's best, in fact. I think this is the first time I've seen someone say they like the comic.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:38
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Scanners is so loving goddamn good. The mock-futuristic mall and the other weird, cluttered sets, Stephen Lack's Meg Foster-esque nonperformance, Ironside doing his best Nicholson in The Shining, evil symposiums, it's all there. Scanners would weirdly make a good double feature with Barry Lyndon. Lord Krangdar posted:Cronenberg has claimed he didn't even know the graphic novel existed until after directing the film. Is this actually true? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think this is the first time I've seen someone say they like the comic. Really? Didn't it win a bunch of awards and stuff? I think it's great.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:38
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Scanner is not on Netflix but it did suggest I watch the Stephen King movie with the trucks.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:39
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Scanners would weirdly make a good double feature with Barry Lyndon. At the time I saw it, I thought it made a nice double feature (such as it is) with World On A Wire. FishBulb posted:Scanner is not on Netflix but it did suggest I watch the Stephen King movie with the trucks. I have never been able to like Maximum Overdrive because I like the short it's based on so much. Uncle Boogeyman posted:Really? Didn't it win a bunch of awards and stuff? I think it's great. Forrest Gump won a bunch of awards, too. Whenever I see someone bring up that comic it's either to talk about how weird it is compared to the film, or how stupid it is compared to the film.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I have never been able to like Maximum Overdrive because I like the short it's based on so much. The short story, or is there an actual short film version floating around?
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Jun 30, 2014 04:41
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morestuff posted:The short story, or is there an actual short film version floating around? Short story. I don't think anyone is allowed to make a Dollar Baby of it.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:42
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Really? Didn't it win a bunch of awards and stuff? I think it's great. No I don't think so but you can still like it if you want. I do like the art in it (not that I had any idea about the covers), and most of the script isn't really all that bad but that big dumb twist is just so big and dumb....
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Jun 30, 2014 04:42
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:To be fair, I'm on record as not particularly caring for The Shining. I've come to appreciate it more in recent years, but it still doesn't even crack my top 10 horror movies of the 1980s. Probably not even the top 20. I know you're probably not speaking of an actual list you keep updated, but I've been getting more into horror lately and I'd be curious to see what your top 10 or 20 horror movies of the '80s are, so I can see which ones I've seen and add the others to my to-watch list. Edit: On the topic of Stephen King movies, I was no longer scared of the clown from IT when I realized it was being played by Tim Curry (I was pretty young when I saw the film). I still chuckle a little when I remember that. TwistedLadder fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 04:43
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