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Molybdenum
Jun 25, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C

qbert posted:

You can watch it right now. Just go to SCG's Twitch page and hit past broadcasts.

can you ballpark a time stamp?

NM 31:20 for those who care.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/542646349

Molybdenum fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jun 30, 2014

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Gensuki
Sep 2, 2011

Kraus posted:

I'm studying for my L1 currently, and while reading through the IPG, I came to the section on improper randomization.

Does anyone know the correct number of riffle shuffles needed for a 40, 60, or 200 card deck? This number isn't anywhere in any judging documents and if being part of a judge is to educate, we should know this.

Edit: I guess 100 too, since EDH people exist.

For 40, 4. For 60, 5. Not 200, 240 since I assume you mean battle of wits? Make 4 stacks of 60 and riffle them, then mix them around. do each one internally twice then cross them over twice between each set (assuming a net, that would be 10 riffles)
For edh you want to do it 8 times.

That said, by riffle do you mean "sort of just pushing them together" or bridge shuffling them, or is riffling where you solitaire them out randomly? Not sure what that word means... My estimates go off a bridge shuffle since I don't value any of my cards since they are all worthless.

Kraus
Jan 17, 2008

Gensuki posted:

For 40, 4. For 60, 5. Not 200, 240 since I assume you mean battle of wits? Make 4 stacks of 60 and riffle them, then mix them around. do each one internally twice then cross them over twice between each set (assuming a net, that would be 10 riffles)
For edh you want to do it 8 times.

That said, by riffle do you mean "sort of just pushing them together" or bridge shuffling them, or is riffling where you solitaire them out randomly? Not sure what that word means... My estimates go off a bridge shuffle since I don't value any of my cards since they are all worthless.

Yeah, I did mean 240 or 250 for Battle of Wits. The wincon number popped into my head first. Do you have the math for this? Could you PM it to me?

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


Kraus posted:

I'm studying for my L1 currently, and while reading through the IPG, I came to the section on improper randomization.

Does anyone know the correct number of riffle shuffles needed for a 40, 60, or 200 card deck? This number isn't anywhere in any judging documents and if being part of a judge is to educate, we should know this.

Edit: I guess 100 too, since EDH people exist.

We don't use set numbers. Do you believe a player knows the position of any card in their deck after shuffling? Then it's improper.

Northjayhawk
Mar 8, 2008

by exmarx

StainlessBanner posted:

New to magic and need some advice. I started about three weeks ago through the Duels iOS app and taught myself the basics of how to play. I then began watching a bunch of Twitch streams of drafts and that's helped me quite a bit too where I've now got an online account and am exclusively playing the Planeswalkers format. I found a good deck build online that I've played well with but I'd like to get better at building my own so that I can move into drafting. Ideally I'd like to start in with the 2015 core set but right now I feel like I would have a tough time picking out what cards to take in a draft. The online streamers are always like "oooh that's a good card" and that's where I would fail miserably. My personally constructed decks in Planeswalkers have bit the dust pretty fast. I know this is really general but can anyone give a new player some advice or at least point me in the right direction? (At least outside of go to FNM or watch streams :buddy:) TIA

If you want to play limited (as opposed to playing constructed, which most people probably do), then there's a lot to learn. Its not to hard to research what the best decks in standard are, buy one of those decks, master it, then grind with it in constructed, but learning how to play limited can be a bitch.

You could start by reading up on the basics of magic drafting and playing, google the vanilla test, and "who's the beatdown". The Limited Resources Podcast is excellent, you could browse through past episodes where they touch on the basics.

Once you do that though, and you read up on the primers of M15 when spoiler season is over, there's really nothing you can do but start drafting, you are going to need reps to get decent.

Also, do not ever play the 4-3-2-2 drafts. The payout for that format is mathematically terrible. Play nothing but Swiss (which has the 3-2-2-2-1-1-1-0 payouts) until you really get good, then jump to 8-4. You probably shouldn't try making that leap until you have a ton of drafts behind you, though. Also, sealed isn't a bad way to play limited.

Northjayhawk fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jun 30, 2014

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Molybdenum posted:

can you ballpark a time stamp?

NM 31:20 for those who care.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/542646349

That's a beautiful thing. Occasionally fortune smiles on the bold All Spells player and gives him a hand and topdecks as awesome as that Game 1.

Kraus
Jan 17, 2008

Brownhat posted:

We don't use set numbers. Do you believe a player knows the position of any card in their deck after shuffling? Then it's improper.

IPG makes mention of a specific number of times in the Improper Shuffling section. It has to be true then that if a number of times (1) is insufficient, then there must be a number of times where it becomes sufficient.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
holy poo poo this jay-z conversation

e: and now chapin is planning a collab with kanye, jay-z and beyonce

A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jun 30, 2014

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of :frog:


A big flaming stink posted:

holy poo poo this jay-z conversation

"Do you know who would cast Jace? Jay-Z."

Chapin is the best magic player in the world.

Gensuki
Sep 2, 2011

Kraus posted:

Yeah, I did mean 240 or 250 for Battle of Wits. The wincon number popped into my head first. Do you have the math for this? Could you PM it to me?

Sorry, there's no math. I based it on how many times I have to shuffle a deck before a test hand looks different than the "1st" hand, that is, at least 6 of the first 10 cards drawn are different.
This is of course not scientific at all and is very biased.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!

Kraus posted:

IPG makes mention of a specific number of times in the Improper Shuffling section. It has to be true then that if a number of times (1) is insufficient, then there must be a number of times where it becomes sufficient.

Statistically, 7 riffle shuffles sufficiently randomizes a 52 card playing deck. Eight should be enough for a 60 card deck.

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Brownhat posted:

We don't use set numbers. Do you believe a player knows the position of any card in their deck after shuffling? Then it's improper.

If you cut my deck behind your back, the I don't know the position of any card in my deck, but that doesn't mean a single cut qualifies as good shuffling. It's entirely possible to shuffle enough to eliminate my knowledge of where my cards are but not enough to truly randomize - that's the whole basis of mana weaving.

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Boxman posted:

"Do you know who would cast Jace? Jay-Z."

Chapin is the best magic player in the world.

This Legacy match is so boring and everyone knows it, so instead the commentators have been bullshitting about rap for the past 20 minutes.

Johnny Five-Jaces
Jan 21, 2009


The conversation they were having earlier about the folly of playing Mother of Runes in Legacy was amazing.

"Here's my turn one Griselbrand. Oh you have a Mom? That's pretty good. Daddy's home, and he's been drinking."

But holy poo poo this Jund player is really bad.

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


Lottery of Babylon posted:

If you cut my deck behind your back, the I don't know the position of any card in my deck, but that doesn't mean a single cut qualifies as good shuffling. It's entirely possible to shuffle enough to eliminate my knowledge of where my cards are but not enough to truly randomize - that's the whole basis of mana weaving.

Here, read MTR 3.9 (Shuffling Cards)

"Decks must be randomized at the start of every game and whenever an instruction requires it. Randomization is
defined as bringing the deck to a state where no player can have any information regarding the order or position of
cards in any portion of the deck. Pile shuffling alone is not sufficiently random.

Once the deck is randomized, it must be presented to an opponent. By this action, players state that their decks are
legal and randomized. The opponent may then shuffle it additionally. Cards and sleeves must not be in danger of
being damaged during this process. If the opponent does not believe the player made a reasonable effort to
randomize his or her deck, the opponent must notify a judge. Players may request to have a judge shuffle their
cards rather than the opponent; this request will be honored only at a judge’s discretion.
If a player has had the opportunity to see any of the card faces of the deck being shuffled, the deck is no longer
considered randomized and must be randomized again.
At Competitive and Professional REL tournaments, players are required to shuffle their opponents’ decks after
their owners have shuffled them. The Head Judge can require this at Regular REL tournaments as well."

Does this make things more clear for you?

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


Kraus posted:

I'm studying for my L1 currently, and while reading through the IPG, I came to the section on improper randomization.

Does anyone know the correct number of riffle shuffles needed for a 40, 60, or 200 card deck? This number isn't anywhere in any judging documents and if being part of a judge is to educate, we should know this.

Edit: I guess 100 too, since EDH people exist.

Not to chime in on the randomization discussion, but do not study the IPG for your L1. It is not needed. The L1 exam only covers Regular REL judging and there will be some tricky questions, so familiarize yourself thoroughly with the Regular REL packet and maybe speak to another judge about it, but you have enough to study for without getting into the IPG as well.

Kraus
Jan 17, 2008

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

Not to chime in on the randomization discussion, but do not study the IPG for your L1. It is not needed. The L1 exam only covers Regular REL judging and there will be some tricky questions, so familiarize yourself thoroughly with the Regular REL packet and maybe speak to another judge about it, but you have enough to study for without getting into the IPG as well.

I'm a fast reader with good recollection of what I've read, despite the density of information. I'm just reading everything, because my mentor has tossed some IPG questions my way.

Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001

Lipstick Apathy
Hey does anyone have a link to the highest res version of the jace/sorin playmat image?

Northjayhawk
Mar 8, 2008

by exmarx
hah, ran into some fool who was trying to scam me.

I won game 1 in an 8-4, its game 2 and I just cast a spell that is going to end the match. He sends me a chat asking if I want to split, and he'd give me 4 packs.

This is match one. This is not the championship match of the 8-4. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I tell him "this is match 1". (ignoring the fact that no one is going to split right before a win, and also ignore that in a championship split you give 2 packs, not 4) He replies "so, you want to do it?"

This guy is obviously trying to take advantage of tired or distracted double-queuers or something. I tell him off and block him, and now I'm sitting there waiting for him to time out, which is fine, I've got other things to keep me busy, like typing this. I assume his backup plan is to hope I go afk and forget to win this match.

Northjayhawk fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jun 30, 2014

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.
Oops All Spells is back in the Quarterfinals against Miracles.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010

qbert posted:

Oops All Spells is back in the Quarterfinals against Miracles.

not going well either :/

Dr. Clockwork
Sep 9, 2011

I'LL PUT MY SCIENCE IN ALL OF YOU!

Snacksmaniac
Jan 12, 2008

Well that certainly costs a lot.

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Also, this. Interesting design.

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.




Cool card, but they could've easily dropped the -3 ability and maybe brought him down to 3 or 4 loyalty in order to drop the mana cost to 3BG or 2BG. As it stands now, another cool BG Timmy rare that will never see play because it's overcosted.

Edit: Yeah, it'll be great for Kitchen table, but it would be cool to see some Standard or even Modern play.

Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 30, 2014

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

Cool card, but they could've easily dropped the -3 ability and maybe brought him down to 3 or 4 loyalty in order to drop the mana cost to 3BG or 2BG. As it stands now, another cool BG Timmy rare that will never see play because it's overcosted.

BG Timmy rares do see play, though. Just you know... by Timmys.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Unless he slots into some weird B/G devotion build I can't see Garruk being cast in standard.

E:Beaten. Honestly though I'd probably try to play that devotion deck. U/G devotion was a lot of fun, even if not terribly competitive.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
Hahaha, I hope this isn't the last time we see a planeswalker that can give opponents an emblem.

Also, first four-ability walker since JtMS! That connection alone probably drove the cost too high.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
If the next block brings significant ramp, things could get kinda uncomfortable in standard

e: I mean, he slots into G/b devotion and Junk reanimator right now (can obzedat's aid him back). Those abilities are pretty fricking powerful, certainly enough to be worth a look

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Oh poo poo

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



Pretty sure everyone knew Chord was coming.


Disappointing.

This card could be a lot better if they didn't add such a situational +1 for the "flavor". That forced them to add another +1 and that pushed the cost into the "very unlikely" territory pretty fast.

Spiderdrake
May 12, 2001



Zorak posted:



Oh poo poo
Yessssssssss!

Also Garruk is pretty ok. He's seven mana, but you get something worth seven mana.

Bugsy posted:

Oh poo poo indeed, I thought they might not re-print it.
Me too, I was totally expecting another bullshit hierarch style thing.

Bugsy
Jul 15, 2004

I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.


Slippery Tilde

Zorak posted:



Oh poo poo

Oh poo poo indeed, I thought they might not re-print it.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
come to think of it, I know plenty of walkers that don't see play because they are too weak, but I can't think of a walker that hasn't seen play because they were too expensive.

e: oh right, nicol bolas. yeah ok sometimes walkers can be just too expensive

A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 30, 2014

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I wonder if they could have written Garruk's two +1s as a single ability that gives you the option (choose one of the following), either blow up a walker or put a beast into play. Is there some sort of precedent for walkers not having modal abilities like that?

Oldsrocket_27
Apr 28, 2009

Zorak posted:



Oh poo poo

Where was this spoiled at?

Maximum Chenergy
Aug 30, 2007

Its black mist swallows all.

He's also a pretty major flavour fail if his top +1 doesn't instantly win you the match by destroying your opponent.

Chord of calling on the other hand... That's actually surprising, even though convoke is a thing again in M15. I guess they're really apologising for Theros block.

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.
At least the All Spells player died with style. He drew his card for the turn blind, emptied his hand building up a mana pool, then flipped over the card to reveal...Summoner's Pact.

Spiderdrake
May 12, 2001



A big flaming stink posted:

come to think of it, I know plenty of walkers that don't see play because they are too weak, but I can't think of a walker that hasn't seen play because they were too expensive.
I bet if you dig around you can probably find people posting that Elspeth, 6cmc Garruk, Karn and Nicol Bolas were all unplayable for their mana cost.

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Zorak
Nov 7, 2005

Oldsrocket_27 posted:

Where was this spoiled at?

Star City Games

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