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Guitar_Hero posted:Also, in most cases the manager has the responsibilities of both the head coach and the manager in American sports, so it's not really a case of one or the other. This is actually not really true, it's only a common thing in England.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:03
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Penalty taking is purely mental. Anybody that is decent at soccer can beat the best keepers in the world as long as they can hold themselves together emotionally.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:11
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:How much impact does a manager/coach have on the game? Much, much more than the average fan realises. You can line the same players up in the same shape, but make them play completely differently than someone else. One of the main things I like about this sport is the multitude of ways you can be successful. For example, sometimes being very defensive is the best way to score goals, and sometimes being hugely attacking is the best way to shut out the opposition. But how can you know that in advance? The manager is expected to decide how the team should operate all across the field, get that strategy drilled into the team and then motivate them to a level where they can compete. Imagine an NFL game that was entirely no-huddle, with no ability to talk to the players. How would they know what to do? There would be so much blown coverage, and blitzers not picked up. Footballers need to be setup to deal with it all adhoc. This is supposed to be a 'leaked' match prep document from Mourinho's Chelsea :http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01927/art18-1_1927022a.pdf An indepth look at what Newcastle will do in certain scenarios so the players knew how they, and their teammates, should react as the play developed. Rafa Benitez had Liverpool setup in a similarly controlling manner. By comparison, someone like Kevin Keegan, Avram Grant or Stuart Pearce just seemed to pick the formation and players and trust them to know how to deal with what they faced, often through keeping confidence high and demanding commitment. These different approaches result in very different team behaviour. International managers then have to do it all by seeing the players for a few days, every couple of months...
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Jun 30, 2014 13:46
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One of the things Mourinho is really good at is making proactive substitutions that aren't just swapping a player for someone else who is similar but hasn't played for 70 minutes or whatever. Roy Hodgson at Liverpool from what I remember, basically only ever made a change really late in the game, often as a reaction to them conceding a goal and at which point it was unlikely Liverpool could recover properly.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:58
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It did annoy me that you could have predicted Hodgson's changes against Costa Rica before the game. Sterling for Lallana on the hour, Milner off after 75.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:03
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Jose posted:One of the things Mourinho is really good at is making proactive substitutions that aren't just swapping a player for someone else who is similar but hasn't played for 70 minutes or whatever. Imagine being the other manager and spending the 15 mins at half time working on what to do in the second half, then coming out and finding that he has made all three subs and completely changed the shape of his team. You'd have been better playing Candy Crush instead.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:03
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It's only because substitutions are a completely underutilized tactic that he looks smart. if you came into a match at roughly even odds and are getting bossed after even 20 or 30 minutes why wouldn't you make a tactical sub? he's the only manager I can recall consistently making subs in the first half.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:07
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Its strange because teams can often lose the match in the first half but managers will just sit watching their team get absolutely hammered waiting for half time to make a change. Maybe they're just worried they'll humiliate whoever comes off. Theres definitely nothing more embarrassing on the pitch for a player than coming on as a sub and being so poo poo you get subbed off though
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Jun 30, 2014 14:18
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Steve Clarke couldn't make a sub that wasn't pre-planned to save his life and it pretty much cost him his job at West Brom.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:25
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This is probably New Thread material rather than hijacking this one, but to do that you'd have to know WHY you are getting beaten, and what would change that. Lots of English managers seem incapable of establishing that and therefore can't change it. Its always a surprise to hear a manager say something insightful about a game beyond "we played very well" or "we were disappointing today". Edit - Mourinho being more of a footballer outsider than most managers is often cited as a reason why he looks at things more clinically than others, and not just falling back into familiarity
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Jun 30, 2014 14:25
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I don't think you can really say that Mourhino is a football outsider...
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Jun 30, 2014 14:39
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JFairfax posted:I don't think you can really say that Mourhino is a football outsider... In management terms he kinda is. Most managers are former top-level players who take posts when that career ends. Mourinho got a sports science degree and worked his way through the coaching ranks to get to where he is.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:47
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Jose posted:Its strange because teams can often lose the match in the first half but managers will just sit watching their team get absolutely hammered waiting for half time to make a change. Maybe they're just worried they'll humiliate whoever comes off. This made me think, which of these three is more embarassing: 1. A player gets subbed in the first half, before halftime 2. A player gets subbed on at any point and subbed off again at any later point 3. A goalkeeper gets subbed off at any point In every scenario, we assume that it's a competitive game with 3 subs and that no parties involved are injured. I think I'm leaning towards #1.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:53
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A lot of good managers are former professionals but very few good managers had glittering careers. By the way I'm pretty sure that Newcastle report was written by Andre Villas Boas back when he was Mou's chief scout or whatever at Chelsea. I'm sure Mourinho demanded that kind of attention to detail though. AVB is another guy who never actually played professional football.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:57
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Definitely #3. If it's a player you could always defend it as merely a tactical change. The exception is if the keeper is substituted at the end of extra time to make way for a penalty specialist.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:58
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sircozzie posted:A lot of good managers are former professionals but very few good managers had glittering careers. By the way I'm pretty sure that Newcastle report was written by Andre Villas Boas back when he was Mou's chief scout or whatever at Chelsea. I'm sure Mourinho demanded that kind of attention to detail though.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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The Mash posted:This made me think, which of these three is more embarassing: 3, then 2, and then 1.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Jose posted:Its strange because teams can often lose the match in the first half but managers will just sit watching their team get absolutely hammered waiting for half time to make a change. Maybe they're just worried they'll humiliate whoever comes off. A close second is a goalkeeper getting subbed off for being poo poo, without even the pretense of injury. Felix Magath did that once during his time in Wolfsburg and if I'm remembering right that goalie never played another minute for them after that. Just brutal. oh whoops, beaten. Yeah, 3 2 1 for me as well.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:16
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One more question: I know that if a player gets red carded, he is removed from the game and the team continues to play a man down. What happens if the GK gets red carded? Does the GK have to come off as well as another player, and then sub a new GK in? Does a player on the field have to become a GK? What if there are no subs left? I am sorry for all the dumb questions
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Jun 30, 2014 15:19
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:One more question: If the team has subs left, you choose an outfield player and sub them off for your sub goalkeeper. Taking the hit in the team wherever you think it would least impact you. If you have no subs left an outfield player becomes goalkeeper yes. This has happened many times, once with Felipe Melo going in goal and saving a last minute penalty.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:21
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:One more question: The goalkeeper has to come off, and what happens is usually a second player will be substituted for a new goalkeeper right then without ever re starting the match. If there are no subs then one of the outfield players goes in net, which is always funny to see. e: yeah what he said
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Jun 30, 2014 15:21
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:One more question:
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Jun 30, 2014 15:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f5aOFRh7YI
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Jun 30, 2014 15:27
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With the topic of managers/coaches' roles, is there a good source for examples of what a great manager/coach do to his team?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:37
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toanoradian posted:With the topic of managers/coaches' roles, is there a good source for examples of what a great manager/coach do to his team? Alex Ferguson won the league with that load of shite that played for United last season
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Jun 30, 2014 15:41
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sassassin posted:In management terms he kinda is. Most managers are former top-level players who take posts when that career ends. His father was a professional footballer and Jose himself played in the Portuguese second division for a number of years. His formative years as a coach were spent under Bobby Robson at Sporting Lisbon, Porto and Barcelona. When Robson left Barca he worked with Louis Van Gaal. Okay, so he wasn't a great player but he was from a football family and still follows the mould of ex-player turned manager who started working at the two biggest clubs in his own country before working at one of the biggest clubs in the world, working closely with two highly respected managers. To me that does not make the man an outsider.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:45
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Once for the club I support a forward had to play GK and the game was decided by penalties. Before it started he said that would save at least one... he saved two (one from Zinho and one from Aldair, both players for the 94 World Cup winner squad) besides scoring his and we won, it was loving awesome. Away game, top flight brazilian league match, mind it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oCfB5RXqcE&t=142s Too bad the video quality sucks. Mystic Stylez fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 15:58
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John O'Shea's done it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NLmSokD2I And Rio Ferdinand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbtgt6amNM0
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Jun 30, 2014 16:05
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toanoradian posted:With the topic of managers/coaches' roles, is there a good source for examples of what a great manager/coach do to his team? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj9kpoD0Wnk Keep in mind that this is an extreme example and pretty much all of those players were extremely gifted and brilliant, but you can get an idea. Edit, this one might be more accessible for a casual fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkQxY0yCno Mystic Stylez fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 16:08
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A good example of a manager making a difference is Mexico this year. Mexico barely qualified out of Concacaf, behind team Honduras. They were playing terribly and the entire organization was in disarray. After hiring Herrera, they started playing better and were a completely different team. At this stage of quality a lot of it boils down to how players respect the manager and how they can motivate them to play their best.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:11
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A great example of managers making a difference was Sunderland this past season: Paulo Di Canio P5 W0 L4 D1 Points average: 0.2 per game Kevin Ball (caretaker) P2 W0 L2 D0 Points average: 0 per game Gus Poyet P19 W6 L8 D5 Points average: 1.2 per game (that was from mid february when the article I stole it from was written, can't be bothered to dig out the whole season's results for Poyet) Proving that whilst fascism sounds appealing from a rhetorical standpoint and can be amusing to support 'ironically' it is actually pretty lovely when it is actually implemented. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...o-Di-Canio.html
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Jun 30, 2014 16:15
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:How does Tim Howard stack up against the best goalies in the world? I know this forum makes fun of Jozy and Bradley being the best players on the USA, but isn't Howard legitimately good? To add to what others have said, GKs have a number of different ways in which they can be good. Some are good shot stoppers, some excel at coming off the line and acting almost as another defender, some are good captains of the defense (which is an underrated skill in my opinion), etc. Tim Howard is very athletic and as such is a pretty good shot stopper. On the other hand I have noticed that he has tendency to get out of position at times so some of his saves are set up by that fact. He is also pretty good at organizing the defense as someone else pointed out. I'm a biased' 'murican but I'd say he's easily top 10 in the world. The big thing about GK play is that you have to recognize that there are shots taken that they can do absolutely nothing about. The other thing is that because the GK skillset is so different from an outfield player is that most of the commentators know gently caress all about it and have absolutely nothing intelligent to say about it (even less so than usual). From a coaching standpoint there are actually separate coaching levels just for goalkeeping.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:23
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Phil Jagielka is such a good keeper when he was at Sheffield United they didn't bother selecting a sub.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:25
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I thought that was something that Neil Warnock did as a matter of practice, that it was so rare to need a sub keeper that he preferred to have his bench filled with 5 outfield players.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:26
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vulturesrow posted:I'm a biased' 'murican but I'd say he's easily top 10 in the world. nah
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Jun 30, 2014 16:30
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He's definitely one of the best left at this tournament though.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:31
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Someone told me that De Gea is the best keeper in the world and I did a lol for ages.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:31
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Gigi Galli posted:He's definitely one of the best left at this tournament though. yeah probably, but thats as a result of a lot of countries with good keepers being shite this year, like Spain, Italy etc. top 20 in the world would maybe be fairer
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Jun 30, 2014 16:34
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TelekineticBear! posted:yeah probably, but thats as a result of a lot of countries with good keepers being shite this year, like Spain, Italy etc. Yeah, completely agreed. That was the original question though I think.
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Jun 30, 2014 17:06
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If anyone is interested here is a list of the top 25 most represented leagues at the world cup (as of the start of the group stages) I think this clearly demonstrates which is the best league in the world... 1 Premier League England (106 of 106) 2 Serie A Italy (81 of 81) 3 Bundesliga Germany (72 of 72) 4 Primera División Spain (62 of 62) 5 Ligue 1 France (43 of 43) 6 Premier League Russia (34 of 34) 7 Liga MX Mexico (25 of 25) 8 Süper Lig Turkey (24 of 24) 9 Primeira Liga Portugal (22 of 22) 10 Major League Soccer USA/Canada (21 of 21) 11 Eredivisie Netherlands (20 of 20) 12 J1 League Japan (14 of 14) 13 Persian Gulf Cup Iran (14 of 14) 14 Super League Greece (13 of 13) 17 Championship England (12 of 12) 15 Pro League Belgium (12 of 12) 16 Super League Switzerland (12 of 12) 18 Liga Nacional Honduras (11 of 11) 19 Serie A Brazil (10 of 10) 20 Primera División Costa Rica (10 of 10) 21 Premier League Ukraine (9 of 9) 22 Primera A Ecuador (8 of 8) 23 A-League Australia(7 of 7) 24 K League Classic South Korea (7 of 7) 25 Primera División Argentina (7 of 7 And at the following link you can actually go and see which leagues have representatives still left in as the tournmanent progresses: http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2014/jun/24/-sp-world-cup-league-competition JFairfax fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 17:17
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