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It's also a conflict that is having a payoff in Avengers since it's the exact thing Cap warned would happen.
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Jun 29, 2014 02:40
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SirDan3k posted:You know the twist is probably going to be that the bomb the Illuminati left on earth is actually set to blow up their earth if they fail. Basically the idea of 'fight to see who remains!' sounds pretty dumb to me when it comes to multiversal annihilation.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:37
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jsoh posted:His soul is stained because of the blood bible, yes. And it's not like he's not gone through this already with using FORBIDDEN ARTS during the whole World War Hulk thing. Oh hey, that was also the Illuminati making poor decisions that'd bite them in the rear end.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:50
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:It's also a conflict that is having a payoff in Avengers since it's the exact thing Cap warned would happen. The most telling thing of this is that you know Cap would be siding with Sun God and probably saying the same things.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:48
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SynthOrange posted:And it's not like he's not gone through this already with using FORBIDDEN ARTS during the whole World War Hulk thing. Oh hey, that was also the Illuminati making poor decisions that'd bite them in the rear end. As demonstrated in "What if Hulk landed where the Illuminati intended", it was a great idea; in the Hulk's defense, the Illuminati probably should have been a bit more diligent with delivering him from point A to point B.
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Jun 30, 2014 08:10
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I'm just gonna say that I really loved the fact that in this week's Uncanny Avengers, Sentry was the guy who saved the day. Unfortunately he's also now become an insane space racist for some reason  (for gently caress's sake Remender, how can you have him claim to be the Heir of Apocalypse and then literally right after say that he wants to kill all mutant scum?)But at least he didn't rip off his face again. Baby steps I guess 
The Goon fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 09:04
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SynthOrange posted:And it's not like he's not gone through this already with using FORBIDDEN ARTS during the whole World War Hulk thing. Oh hey, that was also the Illuminati making poor decisions that'd bite them in the rear end. Strange's soul has been stained for a long time, first thing I ever read involved him trying to use "good" magic and it rebelling and fizzing out because of what he'd done the issue before.
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Jun 30, 2014 20:31
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First Bass posted:As for NA, it seems that the Great Society was way above the Illuminati's power level (I didn't expect the Hulk to get laid out like a wimp by Sun God) To be fair, in Avengers #2, Hyperion clowns Hulk so it's not exactly unprecedented
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Jul 1, 2014 06:12
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It's mostly surprising because of how Greg Pak made no bones about Hulk being the undisputed champion of punches during his long run with the character, to the point of just barely beating the loving Sentry in an all-out brawl.
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Jul 1, 2014 13:12
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Lurdiak posted:It's mostly surprising because of how Greg Pak made no bones about Hulk being the undisputed champion of punches during his long run with the character, to the point of just barely beating the loving Sentry in an all-out brawl. To be fair, Hulk's power levels shift along with his rage; Pak was writing a much angrier Hulk.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:13
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Did Hulk realize his world breaker potential at the end of Pak's run?
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Jul 1, 2014 15:16
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I'd say Aaron, Waid, and Hickman all write a Bruce that has a bit more control over Hulk so I guess the tradeoff is he isn't as ridiculously strong as he was under Pak. In Pak, except for when Rulk made him Banner, he spent very little time as Banner.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:26
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RevKrule posted:Did Hulk realize his world breaker potential at the end of Pak's run? He broke Hell, if I recall.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:40
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:To be fair, Hulk's power levels shift along with his rage; Pak was writing a much angrier Hulk. Pak did write a Hulk who was the strongest one there is. I mean in addition to the Worldbreaker stuff, and the World War Hulk stuff (where Hulk was even more powered up as a result of the shuttle exploding and showering him with more radiation. Plus, the fact he witnessed his wife and unborn son(s) die in front of him angering him to the point of irrationality.) The Sentry fight was interesting in that both WWH and Sentry expended so much energy in fighting each other that they literally ran out of gas, turned back to their human alter ego's and it was Bruce who beat Bob.* Of course later on in his last run, Pak had Hulk reveal in true Shonen Anime style that he ALWAYS held back his full strength and had never actually gone all out. Then Hulk start smashing Dormamu's dimension so hard that the entire thing repeatidly explodes and reforms due to a wishing well. (But it's okay, everyone in that dimension are the reincarnated souls of evil people and everyone keeps being brought back from the dead so Hulk can smash them some more.) As for this run, yeah Hulk lost. Maybe it was because Sun God was fighting Hulk in Egypt where there is more sunlight. Maybe Sun God is stronger in his universe and Hulk is weaker. Maybe it's because Bruce Banner (or is he the EVIL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE BANNER) placed a device in his head to control the transformation to Hulk and throttle back on Hulk's rageahol has made him weaker. Or maybe Hickman is one of those bands of writers who thinks that Superman should be stronger than the Hulk and able to beat him in a fight. *= Did you know in his original plan for World War Hulk, Thor was going to fight Hulk, and then give up and leave the world to it's fate when he finds out that the Hulk was Worthy in his cause or something. And that the Sentry was going to get punched so hard by Hulk that all his bones break (shades of what the Void did to the Hulk) and he'd have all his powers drained by those weird sun eating Spire aliens. There were a number of other differences but those were some of the main ones.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:04
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I feel like the build up to the Hulk joining the Illuminati sort of leads to him being weaker. There's no absolutes in his cause, its all stiff morality and grey area, to boot they've invaded another universe and they're the aggressors. I wouldn't be surprised if Hickman felt Hulk was about retribution and is weakened by events. There's some stuff I'm not certain is intentional, but I definitely feel like Hickman is writing him properly here. His anger isn't pure.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:49
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The Question IRL posted:Or maybe Hickman is one of those bands of writers who thinks that Superman should be stronger than the Hulk and able to beat him in a fight. Does that mean the Hulk would lose in a fight with Venom?
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Jul 1, 2014 21:59
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How angry could he be at a guy who is just trying to save his world?
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Jul 1, 2014 22:08
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Lurdiak posted:Does that mean the Hulk would lose in a fight with Venom? Only if the fight takes place in the 1990s.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:32
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Senor Candle posted:How angry could he be at a guy who is just trying to save his world? That's a good point. Arguing about power levels for the sake of comic book consistency isn't a very interesting thing to do (it's usually relative to the needs of the plot or the whims of the writer), but if you think about it, all of the illuminati have doubts about their current mission. They don't want to destroy a populated earth, so they're unintentionally holding back. Even Namor who cast the first blow has qualms about it. Strange is the one who's conscience isn't factoring in now that he's sacrificed his soul, and that's why he's the one defeating the Great Society.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:36
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Hulk may not have started the fight that angry but he sure got angry when Sun God called him "nature" and "out of control".
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Jul 1, 2014 22:53
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Metal Loaf posted:Only if the fight takes place in the 1990s. There was a Hulk vs. Venom comic in the 90's. Hulk mopped the floor with him, merely by clapping a couple times. Then the two of them stormed into a news studio and did a Hans and Franz impression together. It was the best thing. The Question IRL posted:Or maybe Hickman is one of those bands of writers who thinks that Superman should be stronger than the Hulk and able to beat him in a fight. Well, I went on AOL to vote for Sun God to win that fight. 
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Jul 2, 2014 01:04
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Starsnostars posted:Hulk may not have started the fight that angry but he sure got angry when Sun God called him "nature" and "out of control". Was the planet shattering beneath his feat and waves of anger? Then the Hulk wasn't really that angry. The not-JLA were always going to be stronger, impossibly strong in fact, so they'd have enough hubris to they think they can hope their way into fixing the incursion. Ideal circumstances and perfect beings who've never had to compromise themselves for a second of course they think they can fix it.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:14
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Gavok posted:Well, I went on AOL to vote for Sun God to win that fight. I went to vote for Hulk but the strangest thing happened, his numbers actually went down and Kevin Nash's went up by 7. SirDan3k posted:The not-JLA were always going to be stronger, impossibly strong in fact, so they'd have enough hubris to they think they can hope their way into fixing the incursion. Ideal circumstances and perfect beings who've never had to compromise themselves for a second of course they think they can fix it. It'd be a lot more interesting to me if the story had a Night of the Living Dead type twist and the Justice League guys succeeded with ease and solved the entire problem, making the Illuminati look like heartless jackasses. And then someone sticks some meat hooks into Tony. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 01:19
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Lurdiak posted:I went to vote for Hulk but the strangest thing happened, his numbers actually went down and Kevin Nash's went up by 7. That is probably going to happen but Cap is the one who is going to do it. Because Hickman really liked the original idea behind the Illuminati so decided to just repeat it, but stretched out. edit: Including the meat hook part.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:26
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I was wondering: is hell and the various metaphysical realms extra dimensional or does each # universe get its own afterlives? Could this series pull a Sam and Max and just reconstitute the destroyed realities?
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Jul 2, 2014 01:32
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Was the Illuminati always boys-only club by design?
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Jul 2, 2014 02:14
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Schneider Heim posted:Was the Illuminati always boys-only club by design? It's more that comic books is. Emma was in one of the alternate universe Illuminati's though? 
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Jul 2, 2014 02:25
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Buddington posted:It's more that comic books is. Emma was in one of the alternate universe Illuminati's though? Yeah, I would think Emma would be a good fit for them, moreso than Beast, but he's the one that Xavier trusts, so... Who else is morally gray?
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Jul 2, 2014 02:30
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I want Cyclops to learn about Beast and the Illuminati so he can give him so much poo poo for it.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:59
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Schneider Heim posted:Was the Illuminati always boys-only club by design? In Black Swan's origin issue (NA #5), she mentions being raised by the great ladies, a trio of Black Swans, who happen to be black and white reversed versions of Emma Frost, Deathbird, and I think one of the tentacle Hydra ladies from Secret Warriors. They seem to be a mirror to our Illuminati, destroying worlds as a tribute for Rabum Alal. Instead of destroying worlds to save their own, they destroy worlds because it is inevitable, part of the great game or whatever she calls the incursions.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:00
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A trio of swans, why can't it be the Cuckoos of enormous power?
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Jul 2, 2014 03:10
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The Question IRL posted:As for this run, yeah Hulk lost. Maybe it was because Sun God was fighting Hulk in Egypt where there is more sunlight. Maybe Sun God is stronger in his universe and Hulk is weaker. Maybe it's because Bruce Banner (or is he the EVIL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE BANNER) placed a device in his head to control the transformation to Hulk and throttle back on Hulk's rageahol has made him weaker. The best way to do it is Superman is stronger than Hulk up until he builds quite a few stacks of Anger.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:35
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Schneider Heim posted:Was the Illuminati always boys-only club by design? Medusa took Black Bolt's place after Thanos Imperative.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:38
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I'm still waiting for them to let Doom in.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:21
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Nevvy Z posted:I'm still waiting for them to let Doom in. Doom would make everything better but what would end up happening is the members of the Illuminati are weak in Spirit and mentally defeated going in, Doom would push everyone over the edge into some darker poo poo. Strange already did himself feeling inadequate and Namor just acted but I'd think Doom would have escalated things a lot faster and end up taking the lead or they would end up following his thinking. I still want to see him involved in the climaxes.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:42
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Gatts posted:I still want to see him involved in the climaxes.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:51
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I bet they already did and he is off destroying the planet while they distract the Justice League. (Not really)
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Jul 2, 2014 16:10
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Namor pretty much hit it on the nose with his comment about them not wanting to believe they are capable of that. Also, Doctor Strange destroying another universe is pretty on point for you know his job of protecting 616s dimension. I still loving love that exchange from Sun God to Beast congratulating him on making a moral argument for Mass Murder.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:46
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I think Strange has destroyed at least a few pocket dimensions to keep the 616 safe before.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:07
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Remember, he's not destroying that dimension, he's destroying that earth to save our own. If the earths collide both dimensions go.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:23
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