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I find it interesting that in Japan they released a special edition "Darkside Optimus Prime" for DotM, who is "the living embodiment of Optimus Prime's inner darkness." Normally black repaints of Prime are just evil clones.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:36
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CJSwiss posted:I find it interesting that in Japan they released a special edition "Darkside Optimus Prime" for DotM, who is "the living embodiment of Optimus Prime's inner darkness." Normally black repaints of Prime are just evil clones. Goes well with this guy from the tail end of the DOTM toyline:  The box says "Cyberfire Bumblebee," but most collectors just called him "Murderbee."
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Jul 2, 2014 08:14
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Early in Age of Extinction, Cade's assistant compares his contract with Cade to slavery. Later in the movie, Optimus threatens several robots that transformed into 'primitive' animals with death unless they fight for him and promises them freedom if they do. As a result, these animal-shaped robots are used as mounts by robots who transform into branded vehicles. On the flipside, KSI are making soulless robots into soldiers and laborers. These take the form of various branded vehicles, including an Oreo truck. When their leader frees them from this servitude, they immediately wage war on the Autobots who are now using their servant animal robots to slaughter them. Soulless robots makes me think of zombies and that reminds me of voodoo, a belief that started among people who were used as slaves. This of course goes all the way back to The Island, where brands like Xbox are used to entertain the clones, which were treated as subhuman by the villains.
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Jul 2, 2014 08:14
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DFu4ever posted:The way Prime turned on Megatron at the end of Dark of the Moon was as far from heroic as you can get. Honestly, it was a moment that would have been fitting for Starscream or a villain's second in command, not Optimus. Sometimes you just have to merc a motherfucker. Optimus gives no fucks and it owns. Dude's good. 3 posted:
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Jul 2, 2014 08:41
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Milky Moor posted:Prime finds out God still exists from someone who is basically their messenger (while Prime knows worlds had been cyberformed he evidently thought that the Creators had all died), and decides that he has to go kill them. I'm confused on the whole God thing, who the hell created Primus and Unicron or did they create God? So much of the comic and cartoon canon fucks around with each other
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Jul 2, 2014 12:28
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SirDrone posted:I'm confused on the whole God thing, who the hell created Primus and Unicron or did they create God? So much of the comic and cartoon canon fucks around with each other I have a feeling that Primus and Unicron won't exist in the Bay canon at all. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Unicron - or something like him - ends up as the ultimate way of the Creators 'wiping their chessboard' clear of mingling species. Lockdown knowing about something like that would put a lot of his comments in perspective - he certainly acts like he knows there's a big ol' storm coming.
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Jul 2, 2014 12:32
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Milky Moor posted:I have a feeling that Primus and Unicron won't exist in the Bay canon at all. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Unicron - or something like him - ends up as the ultimate way of the Creators 'wiping their chessboard' clear of mingling species. Lockdown knowing about something like that would put a lot of his comments in perspective - he certainly acts like he knows there's a big ol' storm coming.
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Jul 2, 2014 14:03
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Arquinsiel posted:The thing about that is that it kind of renders all of Lockdown's actions redundant. If Unicron is just going to eat everything and is unstoppable then why waste time with movies full of explosions? Nihilism. Get out. E: Nihilism, of course, was the enemy in Transformers: The Movie. Unicron was death, the ultimate fact that life itself is 'pointless'. Encounters with this truth transform cartoony villains into obscene monsters of insanity and death, obsessed with crushing the matrix of leadership, aka Hope Itself. In order to defeat Unicron - in order to defeat nihilism in real life also - one must embrace the message of Nietszche and others like him and triumph over cynicism and supposedly-realistic pragmatism. You might complain that the Transformers Movie couldn't possibly have meant this. But the film's tagline is Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Beyond your wildest imagination. You could argue that the film accidentally referenced Beyond Good and Evil on its motherfucking posters and trailers, but even if it's not a reference, the words have the same meaning. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 14:18
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Arquinsiel posted:The thing about that is that it kind of renders all of Lockdown's actions redundant. If Unicron is just going to eat everything and is unstoppable then why waste time with movies full of explosions? Probably much like the first cartoon movie - they need the last Prime out of the picture before they get started, who knows? Basically, watching the film again, Lockdown is clearly not a simple bounty hunter. The only person who refers to him such is Joyce. Sure, Lockdown has trophies, but he doesn't seem to be hunting Optimus for any reward - he's hunting Optimus because he knows the Creators want him gone before they wipe out their chessboard. Lockdown strikes me as - and bare with me here - more of a divine messenger than a profit-driven opportunist. Like I said earlier, Lockdown has almost certainly met the beings who made him and has accepted his role - not out of deference or self-interest but because Lockdown sees that as the unbreakable law of the universe. Look at how slow and methodical Lockdown is, he carries himself like he knows that the very universe is on his side - and for him, it might very well be. The way he talks to Prime, about species mingling and everything is almost proselytising in its tone. If he was, truly, a bounty hunter, wouldn't he approve of more jobs? Wouldn't he want a chaotic galaxy? No. Lockdown is motivated by a sense of order. I have no doubt that Lockdown hunts Autobots and Decepticons - after all, Prime expects his Autobots to know him by name and Ratchet recognises him before he even opens his mouth - but I think it is because Lockdown honestly does see them, like he says he does, as bickering children who just go around making a mess that he has to - in his own words - clean up. But that's another odd line from a supposed bounty hunter. When Ratchet claims he will never talk, Lockdown replies "Never is here" with all the grim portentousness of the angel of death. If either side wants to pay him to kill the other side? Great, because that's profit for something he was going to do anyways. Lockdown's ship demonstrates an incredible amount of resources, minions and technology. Someone has to be backing him. Someone has to have given him the Seed. Someone has to have given him an idea of where to find Prime. You have to remember that Lockdown is a Cybertronian too. His actions aren't necessarily redundant - the Creators probably want him knocked off as well. But Lockdown strikes me as being far more akin to a harbinger or horseman of the apocalypse than he does just a bounty hunter, something that is backed up by his apocalyptic theme music. He's the enforcer of cosmic law, practically the hand of God (as helpefully indicated by SMG's opinion on his ship), seeing the universe on an entirely different level than the Autobots and Decepticons. Lockdown mentions that he has travelled across galaxies, something which seems to be far beyond the scope of Prime and Megatron. Prime and co. are just the most recent beings that the creators have decided need to go. He's probably the best character the series has had. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 15:05
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Milky Moor I know we've disagreed in the past about star wars but literally all of your posts in this thread are gold. I just hit the question mark over by your name and then fived the thread.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:12
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SirDrone posted:I'm confused on the whole God thing, who the hell created Primus and Unicron or did they create God? So much of the comic and cartoon canon fucks around with each other There's no indication that Primus or Unicron exist (yet) in the Bayverse, he was referring to the Creators (possibly Quintessons). Where Primus and Unicron come from varies depending on each iteration of the franchise anyway. In Marvel G1 they're remnants of the Old Gods, in IDW G1 Unicron doesn't even exist (yet) but Primus is one of the five gods that make up The Guiding Hand, in the Unicron Trilogy they're siblings created by a "unique digital entity" called "The One", etc.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:24
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Hbomberguy posted:Milky Moor I know we've disagreed in the past about star wars but literally all of your posts in this thread are gold. I just hit the question mark over by your name and then fived the thread.  I was just about to say this in the process of building on your nihilism mention. Lockdown has seen the truth and now kills his brothers and sisters in service of the universal order, the universal order that Lockdown states means a separation between all species. But what kills him? A combined effort from an Autobot and three humans who've all come to trust and understand each other. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 15:26
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Hbomberguy posted:Nihilism. Get out. Milky Moor posted:Probably much like the first cartoon movie - they need the last Prime out of the picture before they get started, who knows?
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Jul 2, 2014 15:34
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Oh, and Lockdown is all black with a face that really looks like a skull, essentially drawing comparison with the Grim Reaper. His secondary color (eyes and such) is green, different to blue Autobots or red Decepticons. He's wholly separate.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:37
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Arquinsiel posted:I was more thinking along the lines of the old WH40k argument about even bothering to have Space Marines at all when you can just orbitally bombard any planets causing a fuss but what you said totally makes sense too. Lockdown's supposed to bring Prime alive to the creators, so presumably they want him for whatever part of their plan is, unless they intend to put him on trial or something.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:47
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So, is Terry coming back again?
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Jul 2, 2014 15:56
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Isn't Terry in Germany? It doesn't come out until July 17th there. That reminds me that Godzilla still isn't out in Japan yet since that comes out July 25th...
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Jul 2, 2014 16:08
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Sprecherscrow posted:So, is Terry coming back again? She said she isn't able to see the movie yet.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:16
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Milky Moor posted:I was just about to say this in the process of building on your nihilism mention. Lockdown has seen the truth and now kills his brothers and sisters in service of the universal order, the universal order that Lockdown states means a separation between all species. But what kills him? A combined effort from an Autobot and three humans who've all come to trust and understand each other. The scary thing about this film is that crazy fuckin' Optimus now actually is the closest thing to a good guy. Optimus hasn't changed much at all from his face-stabbing murderous form. It's just these new guys are that bad. Anyway, with Lockdown: it bears repeating that his ship is a nightmare version of Cade and Joyce's labs. As I always stress, this purely Evil outside represents the essence of what the heroes are fighting for. Cade wants to keep his daughter in a cage. He wants obedient subordinates. He wants a robotic guard dog, and he wants to keep Optimus chained up. This is why killing Lockdown doesn't quite solve anything. It's a temporary class truce to repel the verminous invader - essentially what we see in the Marvel films, where Captain America teams with Tony Stark. The actual source of the problem has not been addressed. It's Stark himself. Cade gets his mansion and his lab, and his daughter no longer rebels. He presumably still wants to patent the sword-gun he found. So really, what's changed? He just got exactly what he wanted.
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Jul 2, 2014 18:58
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CJSwiss posted:Lockdown's supposed to bring Prime alive to the creators, so presumably they want him for whatever part of their plan is, unless they intend to put him on trial or something. Innocent!
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Jul 2, 2014 19:28
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Milky Moor posted:Probably much like the first cartoon movie - they need the last Prime out of the picture before they get started, who knows? This post is bananas. But Lockdown does indeed criticize Optimus Prime for "fighting" for a cause when in his view the "cause" will always betray you. In that respect, I think that confirms he's more of the bounty hunter (and nihilist) type rather than the (divine) messenger type; so I have to disagree with you there. 
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Jul 2, 2014 22:44
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It's interesting that people are associating Lockdown, the embodiment of thoughtless order and rigidity, with Unicron, who is known in most continuities as "The Chaos-bringer".
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Jul 2, 2014 22:49
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Kaytwo posted:This post is bananas. But Lockdown does indeed criticize Optimus Prime for "fighting" for a cause when in his view the "cause" will always betray you. In that respect, I think that confirms he's more of the bounty hunter (and nihilist) type rather than the (divine) messenger type; so I have to disagree with you there. "You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." That is what Lockdown believes. Lockdown is basically a Reaper from Mass Effect - sure, he has a goal, but it'd be like explaining a the ins and outs of Parliamentary democracy to children. Lockdown is absolutely a nihilist - in the face of the Creators, nothing else matters. He rejects the politics of Autobots and Decepticons, he rejects the morality of contracts or handing cyberforming technology to people who can't understand it, and he pretty much demonstrates that life itself holds no intrinsic value. To Lockdown, Prime is just a malfunctioning piece of technology that has forgotten its place. From Lockdown's macro level perspective, the perspective of someone who has travelled over galaxies, he's right: over an infinite amount of time, a cause will always betray someone. In Prime's case, fighting for the humans at the expense of his own people, ends with him being hunted by them. A Bounty Hunter would believe in the phrase 'the enemy of the enemy is my friend'. Lockdown's response is that he doesn't care. Like I said, I've no doubt Lockdown works as a bounty hunter and operates with many of the ethos of such an individual, but he is in the retainer of the Creators, their obedient servitor and herald, and Lockdown is more than happy to do their work even when it would lead to his extinction. edit: When Lockdown mentions betrayal to Prime, he also says that he feels sorry for him before it. edit2: "Every galaxy I have travelled - all you species are the same. You all think you're the center of the universe. You have no idea..." edit3: And there's the whole thing about an apocalypse being a revelation of knowledge, too. DoctorWhat posted:It's interesting that people are associating Lockdown, the embodiment of thoughtless order and rigidity, with Unicron, who is known in most continuities as "The Chaos-bringer". There's a fair bit of order in total destruction, in a blank chess board. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 01:18
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Lockdown basically understands that he's living in an HP Lovecraft sort of cosmicist universe. The constant Alien / Prometheus references underline that. The defining feature of his character design is how his eyes morph into various goggles, making him appear quasi-omniscient.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:09
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CJSwiss posted:There's no indication that Primus or Unicron exist (yet) in the Bayverse, he was referring to the Creators (possibly Quintessons). Isn't Primus Cybertron? So doesn't he basically exist in every Transformers universe? Or does he not appear in some of the series and Cybertron is just a planet and nothing more? I'd love for the films to conclude with Uniceon and Primus fighting across galaxies, loving poo poo up in different nebulae and destroying planets and star systems due to the collateral damage they cause. Then have Optimus fight to the death on the surface of both of them. Man that'd be awesome. Milky Moor posted:Oh, and Lockdown is all black with a face that really looks like a skull, essentially drawing comparison with the Grim Reaper. His secondary color (eyes and such) is green, different to blue Autobots or red Decepticons. He's wholly separate. Interesting, never thought of that. I wonder if the toy will brand him as an Autobot or Decepticon.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:27
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Sire Oblivion posted:
The deluxe toy has him as a decepticon.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:31
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Earth is a transforming planet already. Check the basic structure of the Sam trilogy: TF1 is the offputtingly fake/generic action movie about a boy getting a car (aka 'Car Mode'), while TF3 is the apocalyptic doomsday nightmare film (aka 'Robot Mode'). TF2 is, of course, the abstract and jumbled transformation between these two modes.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:39
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In Transformers Prime, Unicron is Earth. Also it's too bad Lockdown gets labelled a Decepticon, because one recent toy did not belong to either factions. These guys are the (evil) Ammonites. 
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Jul 3, 2014 02:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Earth is a transforming planet already. Check the basic structure of the Sam trilogy: TF1 is the offputtingly fake/generic action movie about a boy getting a car (aka 'Car Mode'), while TF3 is the apocalyptic doomsday nightmare film (aka 'Robot Mode'). Very much like the cartoon, Michael Bay's transformers takes place in a world where the reaction to an alien invasion (which really started before humans existed, but they didn't know that initially) is muted and barely impactful in the day to day lives of Americans. Which is horrifying. The few people who seem to understand the gravity of what's been going on are those who have met the aliens and chosen to collude for one reason or another. One has to wonder what the equivalent of the Truther or Benghazi movements would be. What do Art Bell show callers make of it?
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Jul 3, 2014 03:42
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Has Optimus always been able to fly, or did they introduce that for the last five minutes of this one? I started cracking up when he Poochied out, but no one else seemed to think it was weird.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:43
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morestuff posted:Has Optimus always been able to fly, or did they introduce that for the last five minutes of this one? I started cracking up when he Poochied out, but no one else seemed to think it was weird. I think he gets them when he picks up the sword. He actually uses them beforehand, when he leaps off Grimlock during the charge, but they're barely perceptible. But, yeah, it's a huge Poochie moment.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:48
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Maarak posted:One has to wonder what the equivalent of the Truther or Benghazi movements would be. It struck me that AoE was sort of in tone with some of real-world stuff like that. The other movies seemed to paint the US military as this noble and heroic force. That's gone this time and it is replaced with evil CIA black ops sort of operating shady as hell group of black helicopters hunting down good guys, being murderous thugs threatening a decent man's home and family, a notion that anyone with a badge is an enemy.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:54
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Saw this tonight and its one of the worst movies ive seen in a long time and easily the worst Michael Bay movie, even worse than The Island. Nearly nothing made sense! The story was just jumping around all over the goddamn place and you were just supposed to sit along for the ride. What was up with the secret desert base? How was Optimus in one moment a giant broken piece of poo poo and he suddenly scans a new truck and is back to normal, in fact upgraded. Why did the robots from space want to capture him - something about his makers being mad? Why? How did Optimus know about the Dinobots in China? How convenient for them to be there! Is there pockets of Dinobots all around the globe now? The product placement was beyond anything I have seen. Literal slow motion shots so a Bud Light truck can drive through or so you can get the Hong Kong tourism information, or that one guys Gucci glasses. The list goes on. It was all poo poo. Everything about this movie is terrible poo poo. I went in thinking it'd be alright since a few here said they liked it last week. But I just kept getting more annoyed as the movie went on. gently caress this poo poo!
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Jul 3, 2014 03:56
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Vintersorg posted:How did Optimus know about the Dinobots in China? How convenient for them to be there! Is there pockets of Dinobots all around the globe now? They weren't so much in China, but on the ship they stole earlier. Optimus just let them out and demanded loyalty for their freedom. I have to admit, the handling of the Dinobots was done very poorly in the film and they really needed something more than just 5 minutes, zero character and quickly vanishing. edit: If not for the fact that the movie promoted Dinobots and I sort of half suspected it was them in the lock up with him earlier, I wouldn't have had a clue where they came from or who they were initially.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:59
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Lockdown down seems to be one of the most powerful cybertronians that has appeared in the film series so far, and the scene when he murders Rachet indicates why: he removes Rachet's spark and absorbs it into his own body. We've seen this before with Optimus and Jetfire, but Optimus quickly sheds the wings and engines imparted from Jetfire after defeating The Fallen. Not to mention he pulls a Mola Ram on the Fallen and takes that spark too. So Optimus and Lockdown are both soul stealers, and now Galvatron has no soul. Nice.
Maarak fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 04:06
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Some people have expressed distress about Optimus reportedly being 'built' by the makers, but has anyone spared a thought to consider that maybe what they mean is that he was 'rebuilt'? Perhaps cribbing a little from other lore in the sense that before he was Optimus Prime he was Orion Pax, nerdy basic transformer and perhaps these 'Creators' gave him the opportunity to be rebuilt as a bigger, stronger bot in exchange for some kind of price and now they are collecting via Lockdown. Be a good way to springboard this new trilogy they are expecting.
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Jul 3, 2014 05:05
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I still feel the perfect ending to the Transformers films would be the realization that they're all nothing more than commercial playthings. Megatron and Optimus watch in horror as a 1980s-style commercial from a distant alien world plays, advertizing the latest tranforming robot car or battletank. Why is Optimus so valuable to Lockdown? He's a big ol' toy collector and everyone know the Dinobots and Optimus are a few of the more valuable ones.
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Jul 3, 2014 05:15
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morestuff posted:Has Optimus always been able to fly, or did they introduce that for the last five minutes of this one? I started cracking up when he Poochied out, but no one else seemed to think it was weird. He could only fly in ROTF with Jetfire's parts and he needed them again in DOTM to fly. Going to assume Transformers can integrate parts of other Transformers to themselves. Or something.
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Jul 3, 2014 05:36
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Optimus is totally going to come back as Star Saber in Transformers 5. He even has the whole 'knight' theme going on.
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Jul 3, 2014 05:45
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Vintersorg posted:Saw this tonight and its one of the worst movies ive seen in a long time and easily the worst Michael Bay movie, even worse than The Island. Maybe you should have actually watched the movie instead of going blind from your seething hate-boner for Michael Bay.
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