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dj_clawson posted:Also, spirits seem to be dicks. Even the nice ones turn immediately evil if you piss them off. If humans learned to live in BALANCE this wouldn't be a issue*. *That is until one of them decides to steal your face.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:18
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Sithsaber posted:If humans learned to live in BALANCE this wouldn't be a issue*. Even when humans were starving to death on the back of giant lion turtles and spirits had the run of the place, spirits were more or less dicks. Or the dicks were the proactive ones.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:08
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dj_clawson posted:People genuinely used to worship the Emperor, who ruled with the Mandate of Heaven. Modern Asian regimes have copied that because they're not dummies. Mao created a cult of popularity around himself leading up to the Cultural Revolution so that he could use public sentiment to eliminate his enemies, which at that point was everybody. Since the regime he's founded has never fallen (just altered over time) and his real history has never been shown in China, people still think of him as a god who could do no wrong and make a pilgrimage to his mausoleum. This isn't true incidentally, post-Mao the CCP distanced themselves from him about as much as you can do while still acknowledging that he founded your country. The US equivalent is sort of the "Jefferson was a good philosopher but he was also really bad at practicing what he preached" consensus but in a more "he practiced what he preached but he was very bad at it" way.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:19
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I agree with whoever said they hated the opening scene with Bumi. That and a few others kinda made me cringe. But overall I'm liking the season so far. I am glad it does not appear to be the case that now everyone can bend multiple elements, like some people seemed to be correctly guessing from the preview. Zuko's voice does kinda suck, but I'm glad they're using him and not afraid to show him like they seemed to be in the first two seasons. It reminds me that one thing this series lacks that the old one had was great antagonists that aren't just one-off mega-evil bad guys. Combustion man was one of the things people didn't like much from Last Airbender, now there's kinda 4 of them. Their scenes have been alright so far, but this show seems to always resort to superbenders being the antagonists. I find the ordinary people like Asami's dad or the Earth Queen have a lot more potential as interesting characters (even if the Earth Queen is a caricature, I just mean someone in jher position of political power). I haven't found thief kid annoying like a lot of people here seem to have. He's not awesome or anything yet but he doesn't bother me. And Mako not believing him is a good actual in-character way for Mako to gain the audience's respect. Even if Bolin is being kinda dumb taking him on as a little bro right away. Anyway the actual season's main plot seems to be up and running and there don't seem to be any annoying major sideplots so I'll take that as a sign this will be the best season yet.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:21
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dj_clawson posted:Even when humans were starving to death on the back of giant lion turtles and spirits had the run of the place, spirits were more or less dicks. Or the dicks were the proactive ones. The humans were in a state of stasis.(lawful good/end stage Raava) I guess the balance spirits would prefer is managed procreation and monkish abstention.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:23
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dj_clawson posted:People genuinely used to worship the Emperor, who ruled with the Mandate of Heaven. Modern Asian regimes have copied that because they're not dummies. Mao created a cult of popularity around himself leading up to the Cultural Revolution so that he could use public sentiment to eliminate his enemies, which at that point was everybody. Since the regime he's founded has never fallen (just altered over time) and his real history has never been shown in China, people still think of him as a god who could do no wrong and make a pilgrimage to his mausoleum. Look, I'm not Asian so maybe it's not my place to say this, but if you seriously think Chinese people are that stupid holy poo poo
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Jul 2, 2014 01:49
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computer parts posted:This isn't true incidentally, post-Mao the CCP distanced themselves from him about as much as you can do while still acknowledging that he founded your country. I'm sorry, my post-Mao history of mainland China isn't as good as it should me (I mainly know a lot about Tibet, where Mao is still heavily pushed). I just finished "Wild Swans" but that ends in the 80's and has a heavy emphasis on the Cultural Revolution. The Maoists in Nepal and India are pretty wild about him.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:56
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icantfindaname posted:Look, I'm not Asian so maybe it's not my place to say this, but if you seriously think Chinese people are that stupid holy poo poo Just think about how the king of Thailand is still viewed by many of his subjects.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:03
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icantfindaname posted:Look, I'm not Asian so maybe it's not my place to say this, but if you seriously think Chinese people are that stupid holy poo poo This is the same mentality that led to the Red Guard destroying the gently caress out of 4000 years of Chinese histroy because Mao told them it was holding them back.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:14
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icantfindaname posted:Look, I'm not Asian so maybe it's not my place to say this, but if you seriously think Chinese people are that stupid holy poo poo It's not about being stupid, it's about believing what you've been taught since childhood. And it's also only a (half-accurate) generalization. China's a big goddamn place, and the rural parts can still be rural as gently caress. You're talking about a country where the people in the city can be very modern and cosmopolitan while the people in the countryside still believe in a lot of old superstitions. For example, after the big Sichuan earthquake in 2008, politicians were quick to get to the scene because they knew big natural disasters like earthquakes could be seen as a sign of the heavens disapproving of the leaders in charge. My mom has lived in America for over 30 years and still believes in things like illnesses being caused by the body's Qi flow.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:18
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Superstring posted:
My mom believes that and she is NOT Chinese.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:11
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I don't understand the people who talk about the 'Dear Leader' portrait thing as 'Asian'? It's kind of a universal authoritarian/totalitarian thing. In Europe, in the Soviet Union, you had Lenin and Stalin everywhere. Same goes for Italy/Mussolini, Germany/Hitler, France/Charles de Gaulle, and before that, kings and queens (and I'd venture some elderly people in Britain still do hang pictures of Liz). It's kind of a thing if your ruler is for life (or almost) and not just a bureaucrat you can change in elections and whose private exploits are published by half of the tabloids so you can laugh at them and think they are the same as you are. It was even more of a thing with limited information sources. Hell, take the modern Tea Partiers. Don't you think that there are some of them who might be capable of having pictures of the Founding Fathers and/or Reagan around? (The leaders of their 'ideal' US?) See also, the person who compared the lady to a Catholic grandma with a picture of the Pope. That's all the same thing. Metropolis posted:It reminds me that one thing this series lacks that the old one had was great antagonists that aren't just one-off mega-evil bad guys. Combustion man was one of the things people didn't like much from Last Airbender, now there's kinda 4 of them.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:25
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I think it might be the visual position of the plaque that strikes us as a distinctly-Asian element. That kind of placement of picture frames is a little rare for western households, whereas for Asian families it can be a common sight even today. Not to mention the worshipful way that Bolin/Mako's grandma treats it, more as an altar instead of just, y'know, a picture of someone you like and respect. I don't know much about Catholicism in practice, but I assume people don't literally pray to the Pope?
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Jul 2, 2014 05:36
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meristem posted:Yeah, that's one thing I'm apprehensive about after Amon - I keep thinking, 'yeah, that guy who quoted the Airbending guru, after the Harmonic Convergence shouldn't he be capable of realising that maybe the Avatar is needed, once in ten thousand years?', and then I remember Amon, become sad and adjust my expectations. At least he'll probably go out spectacularly. I just really, really want these villains to EXPLAIN what they're up to and what their end game is. I'm still not sold on why Unalaq thought teaming up with the embodiment of evil who was bent on destroying the world was a good strategy for him. If their attitude is, "Hey, we don't think the Avatar should be in charge of the world; that's a dictatorship" that would be one thing, but last season kinda confirmed that you need one around. Also, Harmonic Convergence is something that everyone seemed to know about immediately after Korra found out about it but it somehow never came up before, despite being a couple months away.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:43
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dj_clawson posted:
Well, they do have radio now. A lot easier to spread information around.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:52
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Charlz Guybon posted:Well, they do have radio now. A lot easier to spread information around. Random prisoner who's name I don't know yet knew about it, Unalaq knew about it, the Fire Sages knew about it, and yet Korra and Tenzin had no loving idea. It just seemed like a plotline that should have been seeded earlier in the series, but probably wasn't thought up yet.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:08
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It's interesting, I don't know a single actual child that watches Avatar/Korra, only adults or teenagers. I've asked a few of the older (~8yo) kids why they're not interested, and I keep getting the same answer: none of them have any idea what's going on in the show, ever. It's a show with actual continuity that makes things impossible to catch up on for a kid*, so who can blame them? *they love OnDemand, but it only ever has 3-4 random mid-season episodes (which doesn't help anything), and they obviously can't buy episodes off iTunes or trawl random torrent sites, sooooooo
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Jul 2, 2014 09:02
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AmiYumi posted:It's interesting, I don't know a single actual child that watches Avatar/Korra, only adults or teenagers. I've asked a few of the older (~8yo) kids why they're not interested, and I keep getting the same answer: none of them have any idea what's going on in the show, ever. It's a show with actual continuity that makes things impossible to catch up on for a kid*, so who can blame them? With the 13 episode seasons rather then 22 the show is being paced much more like a serialized TV drama then a regular kids cartoon show. You miss an episode here or there and you've lost the plot, unlike AtLA where over 1/2 the episodes were just the gang wandering around.
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Jul 2, 2014 10:15
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AmiYumi posted:It's interesting, I don't know a single actual child that watches Avatar/Korra, only adults or teenagers. I've asked a few of the older (~8yo) kids why they're not interested, and I keep getting the same answer: none of them have any idea what's going on in the show, ever. It's a show with actual continuity that makes things impossible to catch up on for a kid*, so who can blame them? I asked the question originally because, well, Season 2, for example, included a subplot of Tenzin, Kya and Bumi coming to terms with the fact that Aang had not been a very good father. That's... well, a good subplot, but not very 'relatable' for kids, isn't it? dj_clawson posted:I just really, really want these villains to EXPLAIN what they're up to and what their end game is. I'm still not sold on why Unalaq thought teaming up with the embodiment of evil who was bent on destroying the world was a good strategy for him. To some extent, I'm privately calling it 'liberal' vs. 'conservative' fantasy. 'Liberal' fantasy being that, in gross simplification, you just have to talk and this will make people understand each other. 'Conservative' fantasy being ultimately that, yeah, the other guy is just evil, needs to be brought down, and you'll be the hero for doing that. Amon's resolution in Book 1 was, in these terms, purely conservative. I'm a soft-hearted liberal, though, and would love, occasionally, the other type of resolution, too. Zuko was a huge appeal of ATLA for me. (Note: I do note that they sort of did it with the twins.) That's all a private preference, though. As I said, I'm sure that when Korra meets Zahir/Zafir/Zephyr, or whatever that guy's name is, I think we can at least expect that poo poo will go down spectacularly.
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Jul 2, 2014 10:59
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I don't know, I can see how people might not be so keen on the whole avatar idea. The show has pretty much proved that a fully realized avatar is more or less unstoppable even by the strongest benders in the world, particularly with the avatar state (assuming Korra even still have this since she lost her past lives). As a result, the avatar more or less gets what they want, and can - if they want to - dictate the direction they want to world to move in. They're also charged with maintaining "balance", but it's such a loosely defined concept the avatar basically gets to decide for themselves what that even means. This is all well and good when you have an enlightened, truly balance seeking avatar, but it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for there to be an incompetent, misguided, or even dictatorial avatar. If someone like Roku or Kyoshi had wanted to take over the world, who could have stopped them? I think it would be interesting if these new villains recognized this or something along those lines, and that's why they want Korra gone.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:29
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quote:I don't know much about Catholicism in practice, but I assume people don't literally pray to the Pope? You have to understand Catholicism was really, really good at coopting other religions' gods and holidays, and syncretizing them into saints/subsuming them into high holy days. Which is why we celebrate Christmas near the winter solstice and not in spring when Biblical scholars say the actual Nativity occurred given shepherds sleeping out in the fields with their flocks etc, why Hallowe'en closely corresponds to Samhain, why we have 'patron' saints. You don't pray TO the Pope or the saints, you ask THEM to pray FOR you to God as intermediaries. Think of them as lawyers specializing in various areas that you are pleading to argue your case before the Big Judge in the Sky. Its a very fine line that a lot of Catholics blur especially in countries like the Philippines and Mexico and suchlike where the co-opting of local beliefs was relatively recent or far from the center of Catholic thought. Still the Pope is God's own chosen emissary here on earth and you're supposed to respect/venerate him as head of the church, thus the portraits. Its in that way that I get the parallels between the Pope and the Empress pictures. Also yeah, shrines to ancestors and gods in Asian culture often have pictures along with offerings, but that was just a picture on the wall, which again is why it reminded me of the whole Pope thing. quote:The show has pretty much proved that a fully realized avatar is more or less unstoppable even by the strongest benders in the world, particularly with the avatar state (assuming Korra even still have this since she lost her past lives).
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Jul 2, 2014 17:15
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Oracle posted:Korra's was shown going all glowy white-eyed in the first episode, so I'm going to guess the avatar state is still available to her (I think it was during the 'meditation' scene when she was trying to reach the previous avatars and failed).
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Jul 2, 2014 17:20
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:It was when she tried to make the vines go away with Unalaq's spirit purification technique. Which, I'll say again, was a good plan despite not working, and Korra thought of it on her own. It should have been the first thing she tried.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:28
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Sydin posted:particularly with the avatar state (assuming Korra even still have this since she lost her past lives). Jackard fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 17:35
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Sydin posted:I don't know, I can see how people might not be so keen on the whole avatar idea. The show has pretty much proved that a fully realized avatar is more or less unstoppable even by the strongest benders in the world, particularly with the avatar state (assuming Korra even still have this since she lost her past lives). As a result, the avatar more or less gets what they want, and can - if they want to - dictate the direction they want to world to move in. They're also charged with maintaining "balance", but it's such a loosely defined concept the avatar basically gets to decide for themselves what that even means. This is all well and good when you have an enlightened, truly balance seeking avatar, but it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for there to be an incompetent, misguided, or even dictatorial avatar. If someone like Roku or Kyoshi had wanted to take over the world, who could have stopped them? I think it would be interesting if these new villains recognized this or something along those lines, and that's why they want Korra gone. When her poll numbers came up in the first episode, the natural answer is "Don't be dumb, Korra, you don't have to worry about poll numbers until the next Avatar election." And that flips around so easy. Sure, it being a kids' show and the Avatar being the hero I don't expect the story to land on the other side any more than anyone should have expected "Bending is evil and makes the world a worse place" to be the truth of the Book 1 story. But the Avatar being the most powerful and least accountable person in the world certainly makes a good motivation for doubt and opposition.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:52
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She definitely cares too much what people think of her eg her polls. Getting out of the city was a great move by the writers as I felt the story was being too contained and wasn't exploring the amazing world they created with the original series
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Jul 3, 2014 05:20
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Babygravy posted:Getting out of the city was a great move by the writers as I felt the story was being too contained and wasn't exploring the amazing world they created with the original series
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Jul 3, 2014 05:40
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Killer robot posted:When her poll numbers came up in the first episode, the natural answer is "Don't be dumb, Korra, you don't have to worry about poll numbers until the next Avatar election." And that flips around so easy. A lot of her issue is that she's trying to live up to Aang, an Avatar that will likely go down in legend for thousands of years. Someone's really gotta tell her that one day Aang will be forgotten, then one day she's gonna die, and be forgotten all the same. Or that might just depress her more, I dunno.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:00
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Sydin posted:I don't know, I can see how people might not be so keen on the whole avatar idea. The show has pretty much proved that a fully realized avatar is more or less unstoppable even by the strongest benders in the world, particularly with the avatar state (assuming Korra even still have this since she lost her past lives) When undergoing the avatar state, an avatar channels the power of Raava, giving him/her immense power. Now, those with access to past lives could be guided by their skill if they didn't know how to do something, but Korra's progressed to a point that that's unneeded.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:21
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Charlz Guybon posted:The avatar state has nothing to do with past lives. Um. The first time that the Avatar state was explained to Aang says otherwise: Avatar Roku posted:The Avatar State is a defense mechanism; designed to empower you with the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The glow is the combination of all your past lives focusing their energy through your body.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:25
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And that was pretty much retconned with the whole Wan thing, as he was able to enter into the same state with just Raava. It's not as good as with all the past lives, since those give more knowledge, but it's still something of a super mode.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:26
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thexerox123 posted:Um. The first time that the Avatar state was explained to Aang says otherwise: Except that is shown false both in TLA (where the Avatar State could be unavailable but Aang still was able to talk to his past lives) and in Korra (where we see Wan use it, without the benefit of any past lives.) As established, it is two things: Using the power of Raava and accessing the skills and knowledge of previous Avatars. Korra can do the former but not the latter. She's effectively in the same position Wan was. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 06:28
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thexerox123 posted:Um. The first time that the Avatar state was explained to Aang says otherwise: It seems easier to speak with the most recent Avatars, so it's very likely that no one until Korra had spoken to Wan in thousands of years. There were probably dozens or even scores of avatars in that time. More than enough for the truth of the matter to become completely garbled by time.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:30
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Jackard posted:Glad they went globetrotting, because not doing it is why the last Harry Potter book was such a huge disappointment - she spends the entire series worldbuilding, finally has an excuse for the main characters to go see some of it, and they never loving leave England. Honestly, I will miss Republic City in the sense that it was under-explored and poorly utilized over the past two seasons. I still think it's incredibly fascinating, if not as fascinating as the show's creators think it is, so for me it's great that they're expanding the scope of the story by abandoning it with little to no subtlety. Still, it is/was such an interesting idea that was left at the wayside along with, I imagine, most of the "filler episodes" they left on the cutting room floor of season 1; then, as if realizing that they had actually meant to tell an interesting story about Republic City, tried forcing it into the second season, to the detriment of a story about the two Water Tribes and what evolved into an event with global consequences (and that's before we knew there were going to be airbenders and spirits running around the place). The planet was about to be plunged into ten thousand years of darkness, and where was the Fire Nation? The Earth Kingdom? Considering that Korra was snatched on her way to Zuko by a literal and figurative whale of exposition, I imagine they were cut too. They should have just released a mini-series or spin-off in it, if they were really so gay about Republic City. Charlz Guybon posted:The avatar state has nothing to do with past lives. Avatar Roku posted:The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower you with the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The glow is the combination of all your past lives, focusing their energy through your body. In the Avatar State, you are at your most powerful, but you are also at your most vulnerable. If you are killed in the Avatar State, the reincarnation cycle will be broken and the Avatar will cease to exist. Also stuff about cosmic energy, hence the whole thing with Guru Pathik and the Tree of Time.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:37
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Why are you quoting something from season 1(?) of TLA when we have more recent information from Korra season 2? It has shown that that avatar state is not just connecting to the past avatars but connecting with Raava as well. Korra can still do that bit.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:44
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Genocyber posted:Why are you quoting something from season 1(?) of TLA when we have more recent information from Korra season 2? It has shown that that avatar state is not just connecting to the past avatars but connecting with Raava as well. Korra can still do that bit. Because the world-building was incredibly consistent in ATLA but is not in ALOK.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:51
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dj_clawson posted:Because the world-building was incredibly consistent in ATLA but is not in ALOK. This isn't particularly contradictory, no. The Avatar Spirit was a thing since ATLA and it was different from the power of the past lives.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:55
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ImpAtom posted:This isn't particularly contradictory, no. The Avatar Spirit was a thing since ATLA and it was different from the power of the past lives. I meant it more in general. For example; "People can only bloodbend during the full moon." "Oh look here are some people who can do it anytime and we're not going to explain it." "People need to move their limbs to bend." "Oh look no they don't." "The Avatar's power come from the combination of past lives." "No it's all this spirit we've forgotten about and are not in contact with."
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Jul 3, 2014 06:57
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dj_clawson posted:I meant it more in general. For example; "People can only bloodbend during the full moon." "Oh look here are some people who can do it anytime and we're not going to explain it." None of this is true. Combustion Man in the original series was able to violate the rules and bend in his own unique way. Bumi also was able to bend when his entire body except his head was bound. Not to mention things like Toph shattering the "you can't bend metal" rule. Aang was able to talk to his past lives even when his chakra was blocked and he couldn't access the Avatar State or Avatar Spirit. The rules in the Avatar universe are pretty explicitly "these are the way things are as we understand them now" as opposed to being hard and fast unbreakable rules. Multiple characters in the original show approached problems from a different angle and came up with something that changed the world or the view of the world. Rules in the Avatar world are made to be broken or ideas challenged. Characters explicitly (even in TLA) have an imperfect view of the world and do not 100% understand everything. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 07:03
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Genocyber posted:Why are you quoting something from season 1(?) of TLA when we have more recent information from Korra season 2? It has shown that that avatar state is not just connecting to the past avatars but connecting with Raava as well. Korra can still do that bit. Are you autistic? Let's set aside for a moment that both shows were created and written by the same people, and so the average person doesn't have to worry about silly retcon bullshit: it's been consistently shown from season 1 of TLA to the very last episode of season 2 of the LoK that the Avatar State is the result of channeling vast amounts of cosmic energy--it's what allowed Aang to connect with his past lives and utilize their knowledge and skills of bending, it's what happened when Wan first used the energy of Harmonic Convergence to fuse with Raava and utilize all four elements at once for the first time, and it's what allowed Korra to become a big blue giant who personally beat the poo poo out of Unavaatu. ImpAtom posted:None of this is true. He's not demonstrating violations of rules, he's demonstrating expansions of rulesets. What is and isn't "bending" isn't limited to flailing your limbs around and making things move, it's the manipulation of both the physical elements that constitute the material world as well as the energies of the universe, whether they be inner spiritual strength or cosmic power. Aang didn't cryonically sustain himself for a hundred years by some martial art technique, and that was in the loving prologue. e: Sorry, I mean you (forums poster ImpAtom) are right. I thought I was still yelling at dj_clawson for being obtuse. The show on the whole is internally consistent, but for the characters (who are generally kids, not learned masters for at least the first few months of the show), "you can't bend metal" is equivalent to the real world idea that human flight was impossible until someone did it (which is also done in the show!). Four Score fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 07:13
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