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Why cookie Rocket posted:The weirdest thing about Generations Sky-byte is that I cannot think of a single way it is better than the RID/Car Robots version. And I can think of a lot of ways it's worse. Well he's an original mold compared to OG Skybyte who was a soulless repaint and was on the shelves at the same time as Transmetals 2 Cybershark. Also Skybyte is going to be seamonster buddies with Legends Gnaw. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 03:14
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DoctorWhat posted:It's probably got normal elbows in the ONE SITUATION where curling-iron arms would be appropriate.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:36
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In Sky-byte's case you could argue that he had far more soul than the original use of the mold.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:36
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For the record, if the new Sky-Byte makes everyone happy, that's awesome. I guess what I'm saying is that I own the original and I've had it since release so a version without a Pred crystal and no chrome just seems weird.
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Jul 3, 2014 04:35
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RiD was wacky and crazy, and fun, and it was really my first introduction to Transformers since watching the original series on VHS (I never managed to catch Beast Wars all that much when it was on air, its scheduled time didn't mesh with the times I watched). I don't remember exactly how good it was, but I do remember it being crazy with all sorts of stuff happening, while Armada was much more controlled and serious and carefully targeted at kids. You wouldn't see a transformer trying to hit on cars or a giant robotic shark pretending to be a racecar in Armada. Skybyte was silly and goofy and it was great.
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Jul 3, 2014 05:37
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Analogizing Optimus Primal to King Kong is pretty interesting; it's too bad it doesn't really work, though. Primal's never really used as slave labor and he's not ever captured for the entertainment of civilization (unless you want to say that he's captured by the expectations of the audience? Anyway that's a weird hole to go into). I would think Primal is more like whichever Belushi brother at the end of Trading Places than he is King Kong. I'm re-watching the whole trilogy with my wife, who's never seen any of them. They are so strange and full of horrors. I'm not one for super plot logic being required, but was it ever theorized as to why Megatron was doomed in arctic cold, but outer space cold was totally fine? (Yes, I know; because Bay hates plot/goodness/your childhood. We get it.) I guessed at first that re-building him must have made him stronger, but then Starscream is out there on a different planet as well (and Soundwave just gives no fucks).
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Jul 3, 2014 05:40
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Captain Magic posted:Analogizing Optimus Primal to King Kong is pretty interesting; it's too bad it doesn't really work, though. Primal's never really used as slave labor and he's not ever captured for the entertainment of civilization (unless you want to say that he's captured by the expectations of the audience? Anyway that's a weird hole to go into). I would think Primal is more like whichever Belushi brother at the end of Trading Places than he is King Kong. Space isn't cold the way the Arctic is cold - you know that, right?
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Jul 3, 2014 06:25
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Why cookie Rocket posted:Speaking personally I hosed up and got an English lit degree so I'm bored to loving tears with verbose analysis. SMG made some really great salient points about these movies a ways back, but each nitpicky "this is intentional! wake up sheeple!" has diminishing returns that doesn't add anything further to his overall thesis. I could write a 25-page analysis of how Arcee's character in the 1986 movie is based on Princess Leia, who's based on the Princess from Hidden Fortress, citing lines, scenes, aesthetics, body language, etc. But instead I will just say "Arcee's character in the 1986 movie is based on Princess Leia, who's based on the Princess from Hidden Fortress" because I am not a pretentious windbag, and I respect everyone else's time enough that I don't expect them to read text diarrhea. I just wanted to give you a massive shout-out for this post. The posting behavior you described is what's wrong with CD. Almost every regular poster there is trying to show off just how loving clever they are and it's what makes that forum so unappealing these days.
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Jul 3, 2014 07:06
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Rhyno posted:I just wanted to give you a massive shout-out for this post. The posting behavior you described is what's wrong with CD. Almost every regular poster there is trying to show off just how loving clever they are and it's what makes that forum so unappealing these days.
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Jul 3, 2014 08:36
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Captain Magic posted:Analogizing Optimus Primal to King Kong is pretty interesting; it's too bad it doesn't really work, though. Primal's never really used as slave labor and he's not ever captured for the entertainment of civilization (unless you want to say that he's captured by the expectations of the audience? The point is that Optimus is not King Kong, even though he employs the loaded symbolic image of a giant intelligent ape, and battles a T-Rex. He's a robot who dresses like King Kong, but has not experienced slavery and whatnot. So why does he choose to look like an ape? King Kong is, of course, just the most famous intelligent gorilla character. But films like Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes draw on that same imagery, and share the same connotations. Truck Optimus, also, dresses as a blue-collar worker, when we're generally told that he's a military leader/scientist/knight(?). Why not dress in 'clothes' that match his vocation? Why does he pretend to be a civilian? Keldroc posted:As far back as the G1 episode with the electrum pool ("The Golden Lagoon") it's very plainly pointed out that the Autobots cause destruction just as readily as the Decepticons. The Minicons are an unaligned faction in the Unicron Trilogy, who want nothing to do with the Autobot/Decepticon conflict and consider both sides just as bad as the other until the Decepticons start brutally enslaving them while the Autobots ask relatively politely before using them as inanimate power boosters, at which point they decide to side with the Autobots, because at least they ask first. And Optimus is clearly intended to be the working class much of the time in AOE, given his "Got Ammo?" sticker and constant parallels to Wahlberg's character. These 'unaligned factions' are typically entirely defined by the fact that they're unaligned. They are never the protagonists, and they're always clearly subordinate to the Autobots - there to be saved, or (in the latest film) casually destroyed. Autobot superiority is rarely questioned. See Transformers 3, where Megatron abandons decepticon-ism, and is murdered anyways. Admittedly, scale in these things is hosed. I just recall that the gorilla toy is substantially larger than the others, and wields a skull flail. But the point is not the exact size but the connotations of each chosen species. Of course the brash guy is a Cheetah, the stoic guy is a Rhino, and the villains are all insects and lizards. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 09:04
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Optimus Primal is a completely different character from Optimus Prime.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:50
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Man, reading Dark Cybertron in trades reads waaay better than issue to issue. Its actually a really fun event.
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Jul 3, 2014 10:39
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Silhouette posted:Optimus Primal is a completely different character from Optimus Prime. Yeah there are a ton of differences like one is a monkey and __________.
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Jul 3, 2014 11:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Yeah there are a ton of differences like one is a monkey and __________. Apes aren't monkeys.
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Jul 3, 2014 11:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Yeah there are a ton of differences like one is a monkey and __________. One is robot John Wayne and the other is the captain of a scientific space vessel reluctantly forced into a combat situation. Also, Primal refers to Prime as an ancestor who lived centuries before him. I mean you were showing your rear end before, but you're now "analyzing" a show/character you haven't even watched.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:20
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Primal also has a sense of humor, for one. Primal does become more Prime-like over the course of Beast Wars, before becoming a kooky religious leader/pope/hippy dude in Beast Machines.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:35
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Megatron is the Cybertronian version of the name Kyle because there's a shitload of Megatrons walking around who are not THE Megatron.
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Jul 3, 2014 14:03
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DoctorWhat posted:Primal also has a sense of humor, for one. Primal does become more Prime-like over the course of Beast Wars, before becoming a kooky religious leader/pope/hippy dude in Beast Machines. Real talk, Gary Chalk has admitted in the past he really didn't like playing Primal in BM for that reason and he considers it the second-worst Prime next to the movie Prime.
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Jul 3, 2014 15:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:See Transformers 3, where Megatron abandons decepticon-ism, and is murdered anyways. He didn't though? He just asked to be in charge and stop fighting for a while, then got psychomurdered for his efforts. Now TF:P Megatron and IDW Megatron did effectively abandon "decepticon-ism".
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Jul 3, 2014 17:40
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Bit late, but I'm not sure I understand the love for RID. (The show, not the comic) I do a stream on the weekends over on the /co/ Transformers board, and we did RID the week before last. (Well, Car Robots. Couldn't find the dub in time for the stream) That show was easily the most painful thing I've ever seen. I mean, I guess it was for younger kids, so plot points were simple and all of that. But something like 30% of each episode was stock footage, and nothing ever happened outside of a few plot episodes. I'm not complaining about a lack of plot. Hell, there was a lack of plot in most of G1 as well. But somehow, I just couldn't bring myself to care about anything that was happening on screen. At least unless Sky Byte was on screen. As far as I was concerned he was pretty much the only redeeming factor of the show. Maybe the dub is just that much better? Or maybe it's just my dislike of anime talking, I dunno. Then again, I loved Victory when we watched that.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:03
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Why cookie Rocket posted:One is robot John Wayne and the other is the captain of a scientific space vessel reluctantly forced into a combat situation. Also, Primal refers to Prime as an ancestor who lived centuries before him. Optimus Primal was originally, literally, Optimus Prime: "Move over King Kong, OPTIMUS PRIMAL is ready to rock! The heroic leader has biogenetically re-engineered his body structure into a gargantuan robotic gorilla! Cybernetically fused musculature has enhanced strength to super-powered levels. Shoulder-mounted, mega-blast missile cannons launch devastating attacks upon foolish Predacon invaders. When they force him to fight, they force him to win!" This was then retconned in the cartoon by introducing minor 'cosmetic' differences like he's technically his cousin, and says jokes. I'm not referring to his personality so much as his politics. Blackheart posted:He didn't though? He just asked to be in charge and stop fighting for a while, then got psychomurdered for his efforts. Well I mean he literally helps kill the Decepticon leader, and then offers to end hostilities with the Autobots.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Optimus Primal was originally, literally, Optimus Prime: You're still just googling factoids instead of actually watching the show. You have no idea what the character's "poltics" are, beyond the most surface-level assumptions based on a 20-second wikipedia/tfwiki browse. If you're making an argument that's based purely on aesthetics of character design, fine, but don't pretend you're actually analyzing anything more than that.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:24
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Why cookie Rocket posted:You're still just googling factoids instead of actually watching the show. You have no idea what the character's "poltics" are, beyond the most surface-level assumptions based on a 20-second wikipedia/tfwiki browse. If you're making an argument that's based purely on aesthetics of character design, fine, but don't pretend you're actually analyzing anything more than that. Why do you assume I haven't watched the show?
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Jul 3, 2014 18:29
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For one thing you seem to think that differences between Primal and Prime are merely cosmetic. I get the impression you probably did watch the show and play with the toys like 20 years ago along with everyone else, but haven't seen much of it recently outside of a few youtube clips. Anyway more Beast Era talk is good since all the cheap anime shows are trash. I'll read the thread and slowly get the urge to start collecting again but then I remember that like 90% of all televised Transformers fiction is unwatchable and get bummed out.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Optimus Primal was originally, literally, Optimus Prime: So a paragraph some hasbro employees stuck on back of a toy box is the canon and the 52-episode cartoon was a "retcon", brilliant analysis there. You're really showing everyone you're the real deal and not just one level above a TV Troper, taking crumbs of things that happened and treating them like they're the whole text. Hemingway To Go! fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 18:41
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Tighclops posted:For one thing you seem to think that differences between Primal and Prime are merely cosmetic. I left a space in my post, so that people can note any key differences between Democratic President John F. Kennedy and SpaceDemocratic President John F. Kendal. Rita Repulsa posted:So a paragraph some hasbro employees stuck on back of a toy box is the canon and the 52-episode cartoon was a "retcon", brilliant analysis there. No; retcons are 'canon'. That's what the words mean.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:50
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Pretentiousness doesn't exist, please stop all this intellect-shaming.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:51
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If I'm wrong, it shouldn't be difficult to correct me.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I left a space in my post, so that people can note any key differences between Democratic President John F. Kennedy and SpaceDemocratic President John F. Kendal. One of them isn't the President of the Space Democrats, for one.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If I'm wrong, it shouldn't be difficult to correct me. People are doing literally that and you're having none of it. Also the fact that you thought primal was king kong sized is a pretty good give away for you not having seen the show. Regarding differences though, one of them isn't the moral standard to which a race is compared, one of them didn't fight a 4 million year civil war as commander in chief and front line combatant, one of them isn't literally in possession of the wisdom of god. But no yeah because they're a leader of a group and generally on the level they're the same you're right. Artum fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 19:16
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How are we defining Primal's politics? The last time I watched the show, it was three years ago or so, so my recollection is hazy. But I think I remember Primal stepping away from the annihilation of the Predacons a few times, and offering multiple armistices. With G1 Prime, the politics are all sort of there and uncomfortable. The Autobots go into whatever country and do whatever because they're the Autobots and they are correct. They can barge into stadiums and hold personal races, or destroy natural resources and buildings, and it's cool because they are the Autobots (this is fairly similar to a lot of superhero-dom, I think, especially like Golden Age Superman). Generally, I think they try to fix whatever they break--but it's still absolutely their right to break things no matter where they are. With Primal, politics are more difficult, right? There's no countries anywhere. Primal sets himself up as the defender of the natives, once they find the sentient humans, but the main difference between Primal and Prime to me would be that Primal can't leave. Prime gets the ability to go back to Cybertron fairly early on in the show. As soon as the Predacons and Maximals can leave, I think they do, don't they? SuperMechagodzilla posted:The point is that Optimus is not King Kong, even though he employs the loaded symbolic image of a giant intelligent ape, and battles a T-Rex. He's a robot who dresses like King Kong, but has not experienced slavery and whatnot. So why does he choose to look like an ape? Well I mean, is it that interesting of a question to ask why the scientist chooses a suit of armor on ancient Earth? Like, Optimus Prime has a whole vast world of culture to draw from, but Primal has no frame of reference. It's hard for me to consider the answer to this question as anything but functional--Primal needed something with hands, so he chose an ape. As far as why the creators chose the ape form for Primal, hell, I don't know. Gorillas are neat, and kids like them, but kids like lots of sorts of animals. I would suppose it has to do with the fact that--if that's the animal that the kids are supposed to get behind the most, then it makes sense that it's the one that looks the most human (and so has the most "authority" over the other animals). I still don't know about this King Kong analogy, though. If the characters aren't doing similar things or sharing similar paths (or even having paths subverted), then I can't see what connection you're making. Otherwise any given monster truck is pulling from Optimus Prime just by being a truck. Captain Magic fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 19:31
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Tighclops posted:One of them isn't the President of the Space Democrats, for one. He's the de facto leader once they crash-land. Remember, the show was created To Sell Toys. The toy was developed first - "it's Optimus Prime mixed with King Kong!" - and then the folks doing the show had to write around this fact. So for story purposes, they make him a low-level captain who has leadership thrust upon him. Blah blah blah. But the end result is a leader character who still looks and behaves a lot like Optimus Prime, looks up to Prime as an inspiration, and almost literally becomes him later in the series.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why do you assume I haven't watched the show? Are you assuming I have not seem Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead? Do you presume we are now playing the question game? Is it now obvious to everyone that you're never satisfied unless a thread is about you?
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Jul 3, 2014 19:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why do you assume I haven't watched the show? SuperMechagodzilla posted:behaves a lot like Optimus Prime
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Jul 3, 2014 19:37
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I just want to discuss Transformers in the context of tokusatsu cinema. I'm not particularly worried about whether I am a deep fan or not.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:00
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I'm going to unsub, someone tell me on another thread when this is all over.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:04
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I forgot to ignore guys I apologize. I'm going to read this web page and reread it again when I am tempted to engage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation
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Jul 3, 2014 20:11
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No more Charticon.  It was fun while it lasted. I'm really bummed because Charlotte is only a couple of hours away from me and I was hoping the con would take off and be wildly successful. quote:Charticon 2013 was an incredible experience. However, for many reasons, we will not be proceeding with another show. Also: The_Doctor posted:I'm going to unsub, someone tell me on another thread when this is all over.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:22
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Why cookie Rocket posted:I forgot to ignore guys I apologize. I'm going to read this web page and reread it again when I am tempted to engage: Now I want a TF that is a roman legionnaire in robot mode and a turtle in beast mode.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:30
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Seriously... I think I might bail on this thread, too. I am not against taking an in-depth analysis on things nor am I "anti-intellectual", but SMG is kind of a pretentious faux-intellectual who just spouts a lot of word diarrhea and doesn't really know what he's talking about. He is annoying because he hijacks threads by yammering on about bullshit and calls you a bitter cynic when you call him out on it. Sometimes I just want to talk Transformers and not having to read 1,000 page essays on Optimus Primal's political leanings and that he's King Kong despite the fact that was never touched on in the show ever. Putting him on ignore isn't enough because other people always fall into the trap of engaging him and there goes many a thread. I guess I'll just talk robits on twitter. TheDK posted:No more Charticon. That's a real bummer on both accounts. =( I'll be making it to Toronto, but I can't do Chicago as I can't afford it and I had to take two days off to move.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:53
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