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Hedera Helix
Sep 2, 2011

The laws of the fiesta mean nothing!
Would it fix anything to have Zwarte Piet be portrayed by black actors, alongside changing his name to simply Piet?

edit: v The blackface would be gotten rid of, yes.

Hedera Helix fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 3, 2014

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R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Hedera Helix posted:

Would it fix anything to have Zwarte Piet be portrayed by black actors, alongside changing his name to simply Piet?
A huge part of the tradition is people dressing up as him and Sinterklaas and we honestly don't have enough black people to fill those roles, especially in rural areas like West-Flanders. It would be super weird to import them from other areas to fill those roles. And, y'know, kids like to dress up as him, so you can't just get black actors.

Plus, assuming you're also getting rid of the exaggerated lips and frizzy hair (because if you don't, you now just have black people dressed up as caricatures of black people), you might as well get rid of the blackface as well.

Plasmafountain
Jun 17, 2008

I knew I had seen something about this recently.

http://gawker.com/dutch-court-finally-rules-racist-black-pete-character-1599633518

quote:

Zwarte Piet, or "Black Pete," has been controversial in the Netherlands for decades. A surprising number of citizens think the character, Santa's Little-Black-Sambo-lookalike sidekick, is harmless. An Amsterdam court ruled today that he's not.

The Associated Press reports, "the court said ... that Black Pete's appearance, in combination with the fact that he is often portrayed as dumb and servile, makes it 'a negative stereotype of black people.'"

Zwarte Piets were once openly characterized as Santa's slaves. Today, the Dutch refer to them as Santa's sidekicks and "good friends."

Protests against Christmas parades featuring hundreds of Zwarte Piets were especially strong this past December, and now parade organizers will have to reconsider including Zwarte Piets in this year's celebrations. But many Dutch citizens still don't get what the big deal is. According to Jessica Olien, who wrote about the phenomenon for Slate from the Netherlands in 2011,

Otherwise mature and liberal-minded adults may recoil from the topic and offer a rote list of reasons why Zwarte Piet should not offend anybody. "He is not even a black man," many will tell you. "He is just black because he came down the chimney."

Amsterdam parade organizers already have some solutions in mind, which include "using different colors of face paint for Pete, or merely smudging his cheeks with soot."

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

The last time this got brought up there were a few posters who claimed it was a custom of their country and any different opinions was just jealousy / an attack against Belgium. I think it was in relation to zwarte piet? But yeah they can get bizarrely rabid about blackface.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

A lot of it is also reaction against anglophones insisting on using their frame of reference to judge these things. Which is guaranteed to rile up continentals.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

quote:

Zwarte Piets were once openly characterized as Santa's slaves. Today, the Dutch refer to them as Santa's sidekicks and "good friends."

Antwan3K
Mar 8, 2013

V. Illych L. posted:

A lot of it is also reaction against anglophones insisting on using their frame of reference to judge these things. Which is guaranteed to rile up continentals.

This is really not the case here, as it kicked off when Dutch black people protested a 'arrival ceremony' (where they throw candy to children). There was even more idiot anger when someone somewhere in a UN office said that blackface is racist, so there's that. But I don't recall any 'proud Dutchmen' protesting the removal of Zwarte Pieten from Schiphol airport, because "international customers wouldn't understand the tradition."

Antwan3K fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 3, 2014

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Antwan3K posted:

This is really not the case here, as it kicked off when Dutch black people protested a 'arrival ceremony' (where they throw candy to children).
I think he's talking specifically about some people on this forum reacting poorly when confronted by Americans about it.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




https://translate.google.com/transl...html&edit-text=
"I see the monkey, links and cages!"

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

R. Mute posted:

I think he's talking specifically about some people on this forum reacting poorly when confronted by Americans about it.

Ya, this.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

R. Mute posted:

I think he's talking specifically about some people on this forum reacting poorly when confronted by Americans about it.

It's tough wrapping your head around being lectured by Americans. Some of us are the worst enslavers, enforcers, and bigots on the planet. On the other hand, others of us have pretty much hammered out modern human rights and are your benevolent kings, to whom all other nations may look for wise guidance. :911:

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOMEUamYkc

XyloJW
Jul 23, 2007
There was a really great article (on Buzzfeed of all places) about a local chef who'd been on Anthony Boudain's Parts Unknown, and they discussed MS's ugly history with discrimination. In the Buzzfeed article he said a local person came up to him after the show aired and said "Why do people keep bringing up ancient history? How long are we gonna have to deal with that?" To which the chef replied "You know what? Forever. You don't get to bury and forget your past."

Antwan3K
Mar 8, 2013

SedanChair posted:

It's tough wrapping your head around being lectured by Americans. Some of us are the worst enslavers, enforcers, and bigots on the planet. On the other hand, others of us have pretty much hammered out modern human rights and are your benevolent kings, to whom all other nations may look for wise guidance. :911:

Let's say the American anti-racist movement is the most theoretically and organizationally developed precisely because it is one of worst countries in terms of quantities of visible racism for a long period of time. There is just such a vastly larger literature written by black Americans about race in contemporary society than in any European country, because the population is way larger and the organizations they have built exist for a long time compared to ones in Europe trying to do similar anti-racist stuff.

Antwan3K fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 3, 2014

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
Update: Reagan / Bush '84 bro left for Tampa. Meanwhile, I'm watching the tornadoes around Scranton on the runway at JFK.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
drat dude way to be in the airport for a long-rear end time

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

SedanChair posted:

drat dude way to be in the airport for a long-rear end time

I had a super long layover and now tornadoes in Pennsylvania. I blame Al Gore, obviously.

Though I've read a lot of A Nation of Counterfeiters which is about colonial era bank note manufacturers in rural Vermont, which is cool.

illrepute
Dec 30, 2009

by XyloJW
Vermont, the isolated mountain kingdom that will become the last bastion of civilization and healthcare in an America gone mad.

skaboomizzy
Nov 12, 2003

There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

Joementum posted:

Update: Reagan / Bush '84 bro left for Tampa. Meanwhile, I'm watching the tornadoes around Scranton on the runway at JFK.

Well, one more rear end in a top hat in the Tampa Bay area won't make that much of a difference here.

Edit to add: I went booze shopping today. Picked up Evan Williams green label for a party this weekend, black label for myself. Good decisions?

skaboomizzy fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 4, 2014

Dr. Faustus
Feb 18, 2001

Grimey Drawer

SedanChair posted:

drat dude way to be in the airport for a long-rear end time
I have an excuse. I work at one. Check out the lovely view at CLT Douglass, Intl.:

North:


South:


North-East:


Lots of happy fliers tonight! (By that I mean lots of delayed and canceled flights.)

Skeevy Mcgee
Feb 17, 2007

Joementum posted:

Update: Reagan / Bush '84 bro left for Tampa. Meanwhile, I'm watching the tornadoes around Scranton on the runway at JFK.

Weird, I saw a kid who looked to be about 15 wearing one of those about a month ago. I had to resist the urge to start screaming at him, "YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN! YOU DON'T KNOW!"

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx
I have my dad's old Billy Beer shirt I used to wear all the time when I was little, unfortunately it's too worn now.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
I have a McGovern '72 t-shirt but it's not a real one, it's just *~ironic~*

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

skaboomizzy posted:

Well, one more rear end in a top hat in the Tampa Bay area won't make that much of a difference here.

Edit to add: I went booze shopping today. Picked up Evan Williams green label for a party this weekend, black label for myself. Good decisions?

Evan Williams is one of the best value booze purchases you can make; it tastes waaaaaaayyyy better than most booze in the same price range. :respek:

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Pope Guilty posted:

I thought Burning Man was the libertarian Burning Man.
No guns. Too much yoga and bass music for those kinds of crazies.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006

illrepute posted:

Vermont, the isolated mountain kingdom that will become the last bastion of civilization and healthcare in an America gone mad.

And you lot stay the gently caress out so its still nice when I move back :bahgawd:

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Didn't know where else to share this so



quote:

Chad Watkins has been charged with painting over "Anti-White" and changing it to "Love." The vandalized sign was taken down, restored and put back up. Meanwhile, someone leaked Watkins' name to the KKK before the charge was made public by the police.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/03/31/new-billboard-in-harrison-put-up-underneath-controversial-anti-white-sign

Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012

No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

I wonder what the 5% of Harrison, Arkansas residents who aren't white think about that sign.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

I wonder what the 5% of Harrison, Arkansas residents who aren't white think about that sign.

What they think and what they openly say are clearly two different things given the local KKK chapter.

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
JFK airport needs more electrical outlets. Get in that, de Blasio! :mad:

ReindeerF
Apr 20, 2002

Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

R. Mute posted:

A huge part of the tradition is people dressing up as him and Sinterklaas and we honestly don't have enough black people to fill those roles, especially in rural areas like West-Flanders. It would be super weird to import them from other areas to fill those roles. And, y'know, kids like to dress up as him, so you can't just get black actors.

Plus, assuming you're also getting rid of the exaggerated lips and frizzy hair (because if you don't, you now just have black people dressed up as caricatures of black people), you might as well get rid of the blackface as well.
Also, imagine the reaction of a Dutch family if a real black dude climbed down their chimney holding a bag.

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

You've gone too far this time, Obama. Impeach!

quote:

In recognition of their brave service, U.S. troops will be invited to a special 4th of July concert on the White House's South lawn featuring Mr. Worldwide himself.

Said Pitbull of the momentous occasion: "This is the American Dream." You bet it is, buddy!

He continued: "Thank you to all for making this happen — our troops, the USO and the Obama family — I deeply and truly appreciate it."

Past "Salute to the Military" concert performers include fun and Brad Paisley, fun., and Train. Good stuff all around — must really make our troops feel appreciated.

http://gawker.com/u-s-troops-to-be-punished-with-pitbull-concert-on-whit-1599784972

ReindeerF
Apr 20, 2002

Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro
I assume someone in Bumblefuck Mississippi is already shooting his Pitbull cassette tapes with a shotgun and filming it for Youtube.

N. Senada
May 17, 2011

My kidneys are busted
I got into an argument at the bar with a guy about some stupid poo poo. He was making the case that you have to appeal to rational ideas to change things and that's what successful politicians do. When I asked him if that was what Bush did, he took a moment and said Bush was working under the assumption that weapons did exist and so he did act rationally.

I didn't know what else to say. The person is a self-proclaimed liberal. I was very confused.

E. He also didn't know poo poo-all about environmentalism and thought I was an idiot when I suggested their alternative methods of agriculture to the kind we currently have. He could not accept that there might be more sustainable methods of harvesting food.

N. Senada fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 4, 2014

Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012

No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.
Personally when I went to Europe it confused the hell out of me when the term "liberal" suddenly meant "quasi-libertarian" in a good number of countries.

N. Senada
May 17, 2011

My kidneys are busted
I get to go to The Kingdom of the West in Africa next year, is anyone familiar with what their local political scene is like? Beyond that it's a parliamentary monarchy. What does liberal mean there?

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Melman v2
A man, a lighthouse, and a city....





SALT CURES HAM posted:

tbh stormfront is largely pretty unfunny but occasionally it just dives headfirst into "andy kaufman is alive" territory



e: i swear to god i'm not kidding

midnightclimax posted:

If it's anything like 4Chan's /pol/, then no thanks.
/pol/ is way more racist than Stormfront




Matoi Ryuko posted:

Christian symbolism in anime is downright hilarious.

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

ReindeerF posted:

I assume someone in Bumblefuck Mississippi is already shooting his Pitbull cassette tapes with a shotgun and filming it for Youtube.

He should be doing that anyway if he has any sense.

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
I couldn't name any of his songs but Pitbull seems like a nice guy.

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BernieLomax
May 29, 2002

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Personally when I went to Europe it confused the hell out of me when the term "liberal" suddenly meant "quasi-libertarian" in a good number of countries.

Often it is literally the socially liberal/fiscal conservative type.

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