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The only thing I can even remember about Legend of Mana is the impossible to understand crafting system.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:19
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:34 |
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The impossible to understand crafting and having plotlines cut off because you missed some vague hint about how you were supposed to arrange your lands.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:22
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dis astranagant posted:The impossible to understand crafting and having plotlines cut off because you missed some vague hint about how you were supposed to arrange your lands. Did the game actually hint or describe that in any way or did the "proper" way come about from player tinkering? I don't recall anything but "plop where you want dawg" at the beginning of the game.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:23
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I'm assuming it did but I haven't touched it in like a decade and a half.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:24
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I don't think it tells you a thing about land placement, maybe random people in towns say "hey this place should be by this place" but that's about it.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:27
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Levantine posted:Did the game actually hint or describe that in any way or did the "proper" way come about from player tinkering? I don't recall anything but "plop where you want dawg" at the beginning of the game. Vague hints are given in the opening from memory, but they are VAGUE, as in "Hey, pick the right plot of land with some water and things otherwise you'll never place some areas!!"
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Jul 2, 2014 23:28
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Levantine posted:Did the game actually hint or describe that in any way or did the "proper" way come about from player tinkering? I don't recall anything but "plop where you want dawg" at the beginning of the game. There was no useful guidance. Artifact placement and their elemental levels determined a whole bunch of stuff, so the game basically punished you for playing through without a guide. Crafting was equally obtuse, but at least you couldn't cut off quest lines by failing to build a specific robot or sword at the right time. I still love it though. And of course it had great music, ref. title screen and dungeon exploration tracks.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:35
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The robot system was soooo loving cool. Never did get mine to actually do anything but playing tetris with robot brains was awesome.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:36
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Squareenix just needs to remember that co-op went a long way towards making the Mana games fun. That's all I'm asking for!
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Jul 3, 2014 00:10
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Million Ghosts posted:The robot system was soooo loving cool. Never did get mine to actually do anything but playing tetris with robot brains was awesome. Golems in combat were mediocre at best without understanding the mechanics, which, of course, the game didn't cover very well. There was a whole combo system that I'm pretty sure the game didn't even touch on. Regardless, it was great having a spinning whirligig follow you around with missile salvos, chainsaws, flamethrowers, and whatever else would fit on your logic grid. Also you could have a pet chocobo. 
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Jul 3, 2014 00:12
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It couldn't be worse than Dawn of Mana at least. Now that was pure unfiltered unenjoyment.
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Jul 3, 2014 00:12
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ImpAtom posted:It couldn't be worse than Dawn of Mana at least. Now that was pure unfiltered unenjoyment. A game that I unironically enjoyed. Yes it's stupid and doesn't really feel like an RPG at times and super linear but having something like climbing a tower and having a boss fight with some guy at the top as every attack either one of you does destroys said tower was pretty cool. The art design is really fantastic too. But it's not like I can say it's anything other than an unbelievably slow and un-stylish Kingdom Hearts. The DS games had absolutely nothing going for them, though.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:16
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The White Dragon posted:My main gripe is how, because you can miss certain quests while still competing a quest chain or sometimes do them out of order, instead of making unique lines for every case (and it's not like they couldn't for space constraints), they instead chose to craft the entire game's dialogue around the fact that the cast may or may not have ever met you before, so they all sound like these vapid assholes all "who are you again?" That's half the game's charm, chumpy.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:18
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Phantasium posted:The DS games had absolutely nothing going for them, though. I got to the end of the second dungeon in Children before stopping because it was still an incredibly unfun, boring slog. I didn't even get that far in the other one (Heroes or whatever). Christ, the entire Mana series is this weird boring mesh that seems to have nothing going for it at all, really. Sword was tedious, bland and every little thing dragged on forever in a way that I have seen unrivalled outside of Golden Sun (although I will give Golden Sun credit for not making me actively sit there doing nothing for what felt like several minutes so I could get my MP back several times over just to beat an enemy that wasn't even a goddamn miniboss). Secret is meant to be "the good one" but I didn't find it enjoyable at all and actually can't remember much of it outside of the opening section. I want to say I did get further in that one that any others, but that's not saying much. Legend was, uh, okay-ish but once I realised it actively penalised me for not sitting with a guide in my lap the entire time I just gave up since it wasn't worth that level of dedication. I keep trying to see what makes these games enjoyable. They have a nice aesthetic and seem like they should be fun action games, but there's always these little things that just make them... not.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:53
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Secret of Mana has the benefit of being co-op which is entertaining when you're a kid who wants to play with their siblings or friends. Also I think it might be one of the first console rpgs with co-op, like I remember one of its big drawing points was basically along the lines of "Multiplayer Zelda!" which isn't that far off base considering Final Fantasy Adventure was basically a Zelda clone. There weren't any other console multiplayer action rpgs at the time to compare it to either so it stood out. Also had the novelty having a poo poo load of weapons so 10 year old me was fairly excited to throw boomerangs at everything even if it had one of the lowest attack stat in the game. Its soundtrack is still one of best soundtracks of its generation as well. Basically Secret of Mana gets a large pass on a lot of its flaws due to being one of the first as well as having a pretty good soundtrack. Now I personally love its Japan-only sequel a lot despite its flaws which include a pretty bad difficulty curve and HP tank bosses. The fact there are 6 different openings with the choice of the other 2 characters making variations to the plot is still pretty novel and gives it a lot of replay value and I would love more games to do (but obviously won't because of budget/developers don't want to make content which will never be seen by players/etc.) The soundtrack isn't quite as strong as Secret's in my opinion, but is still pretty decent. Obviously Legend of Mana was a huge experimental change in direction which would obviously split fans who would either love it or dislike it. I'm of the latter camp actually, I wouldn't mind the disconnected storyline that leads nowhere so much but the change in how combat works aggravated me as well. It's a subtle change that a lot of people don't notice, basically switching from Zelda style free-for-all to basically Chrono Trigger's style of encounters of enemies sitting around on the map waiting for you, leading to a lot of unavoidable encounters since the game forces you into a battle state and you can't just simply walk or run away easily. Still, Legend of Mana has a lot of obtuse elements that people love as well as a fairly solid art and music direction, and I can get why since in other games I might enjoy obtuse systems, but I'm not a big fan. Some game journalist out there described it that if the first 3 games were basically Mana's version of Zelda, then Legend would be Mana's version of SaGa. Everything afterwards was pretty terrible or mediocre though. I still would like to try Rise of Mana though if it ever gets localized over here on phones. I can get behind Action RPG phone game with Puzzles and Dragons-style collecting/evolution.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:02
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I forget, did the original SNES release of Tales of Phantasia have co-op?
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Jul 3, 2014 06:08
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Honestly, everything about Legend of Mana ends up making sense when you realize that Legend of Mana was actually headed up by main SaGa guys.Endorph posted:I forget, did the original SNES release of Tales of Phantasia have co-op? I believe so, but it required you to use a specific accessory that you got sometime like maybe a third or quarter of the way through the game or so? OneDeadman fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 06:14
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You're thinking of the accessory that lets you use fighting game moves to execute special moves. Phantasia on SNES had no co-op as far as I can recall. I don't think you could even be anyone other than Cless.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:25
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^ You could always play as someone other than Cless, but the interface was kinda counterintuitive for getting it to happen from the menu.Endorph posted:I forget, did the original SNES release of Tales of Phantasia have co-op?
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Jul 3, 2014 06:27
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Allarion posted:You're thinking of the accessory that lets you use fighting game moves to execute special moves. Phantasia on SNES had no co-op as far as I can recall. I don't think you could even be anyone other than Cless. Channel Ring was in SNES Phantasia and allowed upto 4 player co-op. The fighting game accessory is a different thing.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:32
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Dragonatrix posted:Channel Ring was in SNES Phantasia and allowed upto 4 player co-op. The internet is telling me the Channel Ring was only in the PSX and later versions.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:38
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ImpAtom posted:It couldn't be worse than Dawn of Mana at least. Now that was pure unfiltered unenjoyment.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:44
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Mill Village posted:Square's handheld gaming sales are interesting. Bravely Default sold better then Lightning Returns did. This is making Square rethink how they make their games. Maybe one day, someday, Japanese developers will decide to seriously integrate the PC gaming market. 
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Jul 3, 2014 07:30
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Heavy neutrino posted:Maybe one day, someday, Japanese developers will decide to seriously integrate the PC gaming market. That's actually been an accelerating trend for years now (and I'm going to  out and claim a little bit of the credit, here), but it's still pretty much a "let's do that for titles we export" thing. There is no incentive, currently, for Japanese developers to produce PC versions of their games for their domestic market. The consumer base has demonstrated a marked lack of interest in such products. Unless there's a further sea change in how the Japanese play their videogames, it simply isn't going to happen by default because Japanese developers have no incentive to take on the extra cost.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:00
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SpaceDrake posted:That's actually been an accelerating trend for years now (and I'm going to Here's a dumb question: how does situation vary between big AAA companies, smaller ones, and the independent producers? From what I understand, it seems the latter two pretty much have nothing to lose by having PC versions while the bigger companies are making too big of an investment for too little pay-off. Does that sound about right or do I have a wrong/oversimplified impression? HGH fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 09:12
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HGH posted:Here's a dumb question: how does situation vary between big AAA companies, smaller ones, and the independent producers? From what I understand, it seems the latter two pretty much have nothing to lose by having PC versions while the bigger companies are making too big of an investment for too little pay-off. Does that sound about right or do I have a wrong/oversimplified impression? Most of the companies doing PC ports these days are the bigger companies (or at least 'bigger.') Namco-Bandai or Konami or Square-Enix or Capcom have all put their toes into the PC waters while the smaller companies have avoided doing so.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:32
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SpaceDrake posted:That's actually been an accelerating trend for years now (and I'm going to Yeah, I was referring to localization companies putting their products on PC -- I'm aware that Japanese gamers aren't PC enthusiasts. I don't know a whole lot about programming, but given that consoles and handhelds these days are basically optimized PC hardware, is it really that hard/cost ineffective to port to the most well-known and popular platform in the West? Speaking of which, is TitS still summer 2014, of is it "definitely not holidays 2014 trust us guys"?
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Jul 3, 2014 09:52
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Heavy neutrino posted:Yeah, I was referring to localization companies putting their products on PC -- I'm aware that Japanese gamers aren't PC enthusiasts. I don't know a whole lot about programming, but given that consoles and handhelds these days are basically optimized PC hardware, is it really that hard/cost ineffective to port to the most well-known and popular platform in the West? The thing to remember is that while the current systems are basically PCs, they are still consoles. That means (with a few minor exceptions, such as the Kinect being a always-in and now a optional), you know exactly what you're getting out of the system and exactly how it will function. This makes the Q&A process infinitely simpler. All kinds of weird or minor bugs can pop up based on the nearly infinite selection of hardware available, including weird problems you just can't foresee. (Look at that one Saint's Row IV mission which was literally unfinishable if your FPS was too low.) A quick-and-dirty port is, well, lovely. How many console-to-PC ports have you see which are butt in some way or another? If you want a good PC port it is actually an investment of effort. In addition to that, a lot of the localization companies don't have the staff to do that even if they want to. Depending on the localization company they tend to have a fairly shoestring staff who are not equipped for doing a full porting job. I know at least a few of them depend on the 'home' Japanese company of the game they are publishing to help even with the basic localization process. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 10:05
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ImpAtom posted:Most of the companies doing PC ports these days are the bigger companies (or at least 'bigger.') Namco-Bandai or Konami or Square-Enix or Capcom have all put their toes into the PC waters while the smaller companies have avoided doing so. Generally speaking most PC games in Japan are either independent games made exclusively for PC, or dull porn with stats caked in. Since the latter sells so much more than the first the PC developed a certain reputation as being for porn games and western first person shooters. Most companies don't really bother porting to PC when it has such an image.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:25
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Heavy neutrino posted:Yeah, I was referring to localization companies putting their products on PC -- I'm aware that Japanese gamers aren't PC enthusiasts. I don't know a whole lot about programming, but given that consoles and handhelds these days are basically optimized PC hardware, is it really that hard/cost ineffective to port to the most well-known and popular platform in the West? http://www.siliconera.com/2014/07/01/legend-heroes-trails-sky-sc-english-release-delayed-bit Sounds like holidays 2014 to me.
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Jul 3, 2014 16:02
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drat. Something really, really catastrophic must have happened for the game to see a delay of nearly a whole year (if not more).
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Jul 4, 2014 04:21
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Heavy neutrino posted:drat. Something really, really catastrophic must have happened for the game to see a delay of nearly a whole year (if not more). The earliest SC was ever slated for was Summer 2014, so it only got pushed back six months. FC was similarly slated for Winter 2013 and is now supposedly going to be coming this summer. Who knows if that'll actually happen though. I kinda want it to get delayed more just to see a PSP game get released in 2015. Also yeah, apparently Steam and the series don't get along. I'm pretty sure the series is just actively trying not to get localized at this point.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:47
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God, but wasn't Wild Arms 3 just loving amazing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvoueEiVyWE
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Jul 4, 2014 05:23
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Cake Attack posted:The earliest SC was ever slated for was Summer 2014, so it only got pushed back six months. FC was similarly slated for Winter 2013 and is now supposedly going to be coming this summer. Who knows if that'll actually happen though. I kinda want it to get delayed more just to see a PSP game get released in 2015. Isn't Vireland's company hard at work on releasing a PSP game in the west in the year of our Lord two thousand and fifteen? Complete with a limited UMD run.
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Jul 4, 2014 05:48
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BottledBodhisvata posted:God, but wasn't Wild Arms 3 just loving amazing? The setting is, holy poo poo the plot is not.
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Jul 4, 2014 05:53
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dis astranagant posted:Isn't Vireland's company hard at work on releasing a PSP game in the west in the year of our Lord two thousand and fifteen? Complete with a limited UMD run. I dunno about a PSP game, but PS3 is definitely in the works. 
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Jul 4, 2014 05:59
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Isn't Class of Heroes supposed to be extremely mediocore? Looks like something I'd be in to but never have I seen a good review. Also why are they creating false scarcity, other than the love of money?
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Jul 4, 2014 06:08
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Million Ghosts posted:The setting is, holy poo poo the plot is not. Eh, it was far more agreeable than most. I kind of dug the heavy sci-fi element to the Western motif. G'drat! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n9xP6_cPAI BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 06:13
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Eh, it was far more agreeable than most. I kind of dug the heavy sci-fi element to the Western motif. Don't get me wrong, I loved WA3, but it breaks down hard pretty much as soon as the first time you defeat the Prophets.
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Jul 4, 2014 06:18
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To be fair it's probably been near 10 years since I played it, but I remember saying "are you loving joking?" more than I do with the average jrpg. That fuckin' OST though. The opening train sequence is really cool too. e: oh god a new page, here have a tune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In68Dk6EIek Million Ghosts fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 06:19
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