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Evilreaver posted:Just as a side note regarding those "totems" that post mentions, they don't work. I was leaving furnaces around as 'tombstones' whenever I killed a nest, and later on a nest settled right on top of one. That's interesting. Note that you can use the debug features to enable "show_enemy_expansion_candidate_chunks" and it will highlight those chunks on your map. Building structures clears these in about a two chunk radius, deconstructing everything lets them reappear. However, loading a save seems to reset them. Building something clears them again, removing it (but still having all your old stuff there) doesn't bring them back. fake edit: I just went to report this as a bug and found that someone already has. http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4578
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Jul 5, 2014 08:46
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This game is like a designer drug designed specifically for my brain. I loved producing crap in Dwarf Fortress even though there wasn't any real reason to do so after a certain amount of trade goods. But good god. Was anyone else's first factory also a giant heap of ill-conceived garbage? I never started building it with the idea of expanding production later, or to allow for the building of more or new science packs. How do people keep a factory expandable other than in a straight line and adding more units at the end? Do you use one stream of raw resources or get additional streams for every new item in production? Do you just go and make a whole new separate factory for every Science Pack? Is it worth it to automate coal delivery or should I hold out for non-coal technology? Also, I'm assuming my normal turrets can't shoot through walls? 
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Jul 5, 2014 11:04
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I expand in three steps: Building my lines in such a fashion ( up down - left right ) that I can add more factories. After I researched energy logistics I use the medium poles and build two factories side by side instead of one with a small pole on each side. Thus lowering the amount of space needed And then I just use assemblers 3 for crucial construction and lower the amount of factories needed, giving me more space to expand again. Somewhere in the middle I start to use logistic robots and then all your problems are gone.
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Jul 5, 2014 11:31
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Everyone's first game is like this. Coal will be your main power source for most of the game, for many players this is the first thing they automate. I like building a simple factory until I produce green potions. Then once I started working with oil I build a second factory line that is nice and expandable.
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Jul 5, 2014 11:36
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1) Electricity and sustainable (coal) power 2) Furnaces with real estate reserved for 24 furnaces per side of the main belt, per ore (6x2x2 to start) 3) Automate Red (Gear + 4 Red), 5 labs 4) Automate Green (2 Gear, 3 wire, 2 chip, 2 inserter, 1 belt = 4 science + spare) 5) Improvements (Red belts, fast inserters, more furnaces, more mines, more power), 10 labs 6) Blue Science, one thing at a time 7) Dedicated chip/advchip/processor/module line 8) Improvements, convert to green power, outposts, throughput until end, 20 labs Just completed a 24.5 hour "all research" game. I was really hoping for sub-24 hours, just missed it 
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Jul 5, 2014 13:39
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So I'm thinking of setting up a sort of hybrid base with just one main bus of raw materials running down one side, and then infinitely expandable manufacturing clusters branching off from them in one direction. By raw materials I'm meaning anything that can't be directly manufactured in an assembler - basically so that the line can support constructing anything in the game. Given that anything that's only required in the Liquid Processing side of things can be kept to a dedicated liquid processing area (e.g. I won't need to run a main bus for Sulfur as it's just going to be shunted directly into the chemical plant for making sulfuric acid), I'm counting Iron, Copper and Steel plates, Coal, Stone, Batteries, and Plastic. Am I missing anything?
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Jul 6, 2014 00:25
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Plastics don't need bussing, they go straight into the advanced circuits assemblers. Stone and coal aren't used enough, I often tear out those busses after my logibots come online. But you do want to bus basic circuits.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:38
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Phobophilia posted:Plastics don't need bussing, they go straight into the advanced circuits assemblers. Stone and coal aren't used enough, I often tear out those busses after my logibots come online. Hmm. Advanced circuits and laser towers, yeah. Also like your idea about basic circuits. Yeah they're technically an intermediary item, but they're so ubiquitous that you'd end up needing additional assemblies for half of your poo poo. Good call.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:53
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I've been finding that building perpendicular to my water source and spreading things out like a tree with branches moving outwards works best for me. I make one main line of factories with iron plates and copper bars going on each side, then use splitters and underground tunnels to do the same thing on either side of the main line. Then, as a new product gets researched, I do it again, slowly spreading the lines out. The trick with doing things all off one resource blob is that you end up having to start from scratch at the start of each of the assembly lines. Your inserter line can be turned into a green potion line, sure, but if you want both items then you need to have extra factories for redundancy. For that sake it's a good idea to just really spread your lines out so you can have at least one or two factory + conveyor belt's width between the lines. That way you can throw up redundant factories if you need extra products, or simply just need to have more copper wire. That's the problem I had before, I ended up throwing in three more factories just to make copper wire for the circuits and advanced circuits that were producing off the same line. After all, once you have your miners and ovens going full swing and have a materials excess it doesn't matter if the raw mats need to travel a bit further to get to the new factories, they'd be spaced out the same if they are traveling six feet or six miles. It is kind of hilarious how much Factorio is like complex mathematics or programming where you throw things on more and more and it makes sense every step of the way, then you sit back after an hour or so and thing "gently caress, this thing is an incomprehensible black box. At least stuff is still going out the same end. Is that an underground tunnel going into a lake? WHY?"
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Jul 6, 2014 04:11
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I spend more time than I would like to care to admit running around going "Where the gently caress does this go, why is that there, where's X, do I even have X? Why are copper bars going off into the desert what is happening? Oh hello robot friend thankyou for your cargo of iron."
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Jul 6, 2014 04:25
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I took the chance to update and, despite working yesterday and seeming to save fine, I think I just broke my best game yet. Upon loading I get an error that tells me it failed to load level.dat. Is there any way to fix this or did I just lose 24 hours of my life?
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Jul 6, 2014 19:45
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I was bored last night so I made fifty chests with arms between them can just move iron to the next one down the line until it reaches a conveyor that takes it back to the beginning.
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Jul 6, 2014 23:05
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Deadmeat5150 posted:I was bored last night so I made fifty chests with arms between them can just move iron to the next one down the line until it reaches a conveyor that takes it back to the beginning. I was inordinately excited when I learned inserters could pass items along between each other. One of these days I'm going to do a no-belt run, just inserters and bots.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:37
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Just made another quickie mod: Terminal Chests Curious what you guys think of it, balance-wise.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:41
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Shintaro posted:Just made another quickie mod: Terminal Chests What does it do? Picture is miscoloured smart chests being unloaded by fast inserters... Which we already have. If it is chests that is essentially a player holding F, I want those when I get back to my pc.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:37
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Dunno-Lars posted:What does it do?  This is the full image I assume the two chests on the right are sucking up the iron plates on the conveyor belt.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:44
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Shintaro posted:Just made another quickie mod: Terminal Chests Personally, I wouldn't use it. Four fast inserters and a box, that doesn't matter once you get going. But half the capacity all so you can save one block of space on the ground because you're not using an inserter? Eh
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Jul 7, 2014 06:51
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Sunblood posted:
Oh. Sorry about that. Ipad posting and didn't see the whole picture. How many fast inserters do you need to keep up with a blue belt? Can you make copies that also work as active providers, so you can get your roboarmy to empty without extra inserters and chests?
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Jul 7, 2014 06:58
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The real use of something like that is to feed craploads of copper into a wire factory or iron into a gear factory- say, a Assmb3 loaded with Speeds. While you could easily cap out the production, the problem is that it's hard to take it out fast enough. Though you could unload a overcharged wire assmb to a parked train car with 2+ chip assemblers on the other side. Hmm, that might work even without the terminal chest...
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Jul 7, 2014 07:45
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Oh god I still don't have my 50 speed/productivity 3 modules! Everything is just so slow and I can't be bothered to build more infrastructure or go out and cap more resources to do it, I'm just bored of my current game and I want it to finish so I've taken to leaving it building everything while I go watch TV. And then I come back and it's still not done because I only have a few assemblers building poo poo. My wife finds it hilarious. Next time I need to bring in more resources and plan to actually expand some more towards the end game.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:05
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I've built a rocket defence precisely once, never again. Nothing happens. No waves of biters encroaching the rushing flames of the landing colony ship. Maybe once they've made more Content.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:13
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I know, I know. Just that I've come so far and I keep thinking that I need a goal to actually call the game "finished"
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Jul 7, 2014 09:15
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thehustler posted:I know, I know. Just that I've come so far and I keep thinking that I need a goal to actually call the game "finished" When every single square centimeter of dirt has been replaced with glorious steel and concrete you are finished.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:45
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Sarrisan posted:I took the chance to update and, despite working yesterday and seeming to save fine, I think I just broke my best game yet. Upon loading I get an error that tells me it failed to load level.dat. Is it the "package lock" error? Someone on the factorio forums posted a workaround: http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4440&start=30 posted:Adding a mod to your load order allows you to recover a "corrupted" save. Good reason on its own to check for some quality mods
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Jul 7, 2014 10:25
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Dunno-Lars posted:If it is chests that is essentially a player holding F, I want those when I get back to my pc. Yes, this, basically. I guess my image isn't the clearest thing in the world. I thought about making it a passive provider but was thinking that it's already kinda powerful. A normal fast inserter can't keep up with an express belt, so sometimes you see weird setups with splitters and winding belts just to get enough fast inserters engaged. The terminal chest does it in less space (and without using power), so I figured keeping it small was a reasonable balancing measure. As mentioned in the description, it's mainly there as a way to let the belt-to-container interface speed up to keep up with the container-to-container speeds you get with increased stack sizes. It would be pretty trivial, modding-wise, to upgrade its container limit, or make it a logistic chest (or make multiple versions that do combinations of those things). Evilreaver posted:Though you could unload a overcharged wire assmb to a parked train car with 2+ chip assemblers on the other side. Hmm, that might work even without the terminal chest...
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Jul 7, 2014 12:01
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Oh god. I can see this becoming one of those games that I love but am utterly terrible at. I think I'm just slightly too dim to see the route to maximised efficiency. That being said, I downloaded the demo and had a great time until my sperglord fiancée took over. I'm now typing this from my sofa as she sits hunched over my laptop, intermittently barking with glee about "nicely arranged pylons". Might have to buy this.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:28
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Phssthpok posted:Is it the "package lock" error? Someone on the factorio forums posted a workaround: Fuckin' score. This did it. Thanks man.  I'm happy to get this one back too, because it's my first factory where I did things somewhat properly, with a central bus and perfectly expandable factory lines. I'd just spent 3 hours the night before the game corrupted setting up expansions to bring in extra copper for my soon-to-be module factory. Maybe for once I'll actually get around to building power armor mk.2!
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Jul 7, 2014 22:37
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Flint_Paper posted:Oh god. I can see this becoming one of those games that I love but am utterly terrible at. I think I'm just slightly too dim to see the route to maximised efficiency. The bus is pretty efficient and straight forward to build and expand on. Unfortunately you will get spoiled by it.
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Jul 8, 2014 03:48
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I love learning to play this game. This was my first game, screenshot already posted a while ago but again for comparison. Looking back, I can see I had no clue. Steam engines and iron smelters have barely any room to expand, I have a grand total of 1 copper wire assemblies, and only 2 red pack factories. There is no room to expand, even though I was situated in the middle of a desert plains. Pollution is low because there's barely any production. I saw that it'd be a complete pain to get blue packs from this, so I started another map.  Much, much larger, the idea was to simply leave space open for expansion - not always working out that well. Red and green worked well, but then it came to building an oil complex and I never did that before so it naturally turned into a mess, spilling over into the blue pack production in the bottom right. There are bottlenecks everywhere and no easy ways to fix them. I saw some screenshots of other builds, so I thought I'd try a bus.  Not as far in as the previous game but the bus is amazing. Having all factories to the right be expandable is perfect. This being my first bus, I still didn't think big enough and the bus spilled over into my copper smelting area when I added blue packs. Also had some difficulty properly integrating chemicals into the manufacturing lines, so I ended up placing sulphur, acid, batteries and plastic outside of the main area. The most pressing problem right now is expansion of base resources, but also an increase in belt speed because one slow belt of iron and copper isn't going to have enough bandwidth to feed the entire system anymore. I've already ended up augmenting iron plates in the middle from another source, which is another solution. But I need to add engines and CPU's and that'll require a massive amount of copper. Also, pollution has become a serious problem with really early, constant and later on rather large attacks that I'm increasingly badly prepared for to fend off. I've spend so much time building the bus that I didn't have any time to develop weapons and armor, and before I can get really good stuff I'd have to start building CPU's and engines anyway. Which I'm at a loss as to where I should put them. I always seem to end up needing more room than I planned for, regardless of how much room I'm allocating at the start.
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Jul 8, 2014 09:46
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I'm being hella dumb here - what's a "bus"? In the game, obviously.
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Jul 8, 2014 10:17
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Don't think people-bus, think geek-bus. Basically the main artery in the middle of the last base I posted. I still need to get used to it, especially with how and when to branch off nicely, but it's a pretty great system to build modular, expandable production lines next to it.
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Jul 8, 2014 10:22
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I'm using a bus for my next game as I had little to no room for expansion really and it meant that I was pumping out single digit blue CPUs per minute which meant for a very slow end-game build. I properly hosed up.
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Jul 8, 2014 10:28
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Aaaaaaaaah. Cunning. So basically one big feed line that carries materials and splits off to various smelters/manufacturing whatsits/drills etc?
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Jul 8, 2014 10:28
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Yep. In theory a bus is awesome. In practice it's nice, but still difficult. Through all my games, it always comes down to not having enough space. I've been trying for an hour to solve a copper wire production problem so I can get ready for CPU's but drat I'm not fixing anything, just moving from one bottleneck to another. Mines, furnaces, then belts, then again more furnaces. I don't even know where all my current copper wires disappear to. I'll probably end up building a whole new copper mining/smelting complex elsewhere to feed into the bus again. That's the neat thing about the bus though. You have one place where a resource enters the system. If your current source runs dry it's a lot easier to just connect another mining/smelting operation to the end of bus from elsewhere than when you've build your whole production complex around a specific resource location.
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Jul 8, 2014 11:43
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Then incredibly you can take it one step further and have a dedicated smelting operation somewhere outputting to your bus which is fed by an increasingly complex train line running to your mining operations!
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Jul 8, 2014 12:35
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When you find a new patch - or multiple beside each other - get the maximium amount of miners on it, then the maximium amount of electric furnances so that it doesn't back up, then use a train to ship it around. Decentralize your production.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:52
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If you find iron and copper deposits near each other, you might as well assemble circuitboards on-site, they're much more compact to ship than plates or ore.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:01
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I've taken to using a traincar as a huge chest:  This is a very first implementation and it works fantastically (also this is pretty early-game and I'm pretty much just loving around so the base is more of a mess than usual). I can't wait to figure out more uses for it. In theory, in late games you could just completely supercharge the assemblers and the inserters would have such a huge multiplied throughput that 
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Jul 8, 2014 16:53
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Evilreaver posted:I've taken to using a traincar as a huge chest: Now we need smart boxcars. Have you tried running a red/green wire to it?
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Jul 8, 2014 18:16
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Evilreaver posted:I've taken to using a traincar as a huge chest: Oh gently caress. Now I have to redo my depots again. So. Much. Throughput.
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Jul 8, 2014 18:27
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